The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Magicka Sorcs Against Ball of Lightning-Updated
IAVITNI
✭✭✭✭✭
v5.2.3-Update
Sorcerer
Storm Calling
The above changes are a step in the right direction. The differentiation between BoL and Streak as an offensive/defensive morph is solid. Would still prefer immunity on Lightning Form as it would increase diversity but that is an opinion. Objectively, only 1 issue remains...
The primary issue of the skill being overloaded remains: the absorb duration is too long. 1-1.5 seconds of absorb is more than enough and is already very strong. If the absorb goes live with the full 3 second duration it will be overbearing to all ranged builds. This is nearly the exact same situation as DK wings. The reflect wasn't necessarily problematic on wings, it was the uptime that prevented range builds from being able to provide pressure. High uptime on 100% damage nullification is incredibly problematic. Complete immunity to damage should not last more than a single GCD in a game with no cool downs.
Because the ability has no stun, it may be more balanced to further reduce the fatigue cost specifically for BoL (though not necessary. IMO just reduce duration to 1.5 and the ability is in a good place)
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Please do not let the current version of Ball go Lightning go unscathed through the PTS. Ball of Lightning and Streak are two of the most used and iconic skills within the sorcerer kit. If the idea is to increase sorc identity via mobility you do not do that by making arguably the best mobile ability more mobile via snare immunity and ranged CC/snare immunity from all magicka builds. The BoL change was accompanied with a Streak nerf. Please revert this as well and do not leave the class with 2 useless morphs.
By that logic, templars should should have their BoL (Breath of Life) buffed to give them further identity as the healing class. The changes to Ball of Lightning and Streak are unnecessary, and in regards to the former, a huge overloading of an already strong ability.
Wings were nerfed for being over bearing to ranged builds. Ball of Lightning, at 3 seconds has the same effect except it is even stronger. For all those DK mains who were upset about the wings nerf, please join a sorc main in nerfing Ball of Lightning. If your class cannot have overloaded abilities neither should sorcerers.
Adding to that, the change to Ball of Lightning turns it from a defensive ability to a hybrid offensive/defensive ability (that in actuality out-performs Streak on the PTS). The stun change, while welcomed as it provides a much needed fix to a void in the class kit, is actually killing diversity. Instead of having 1 offensive and 1 defensive morph, you know have 1 over-performing morph and the other one.
Sorcerer already has a plethora of underperforming skills (I'd strongly argue 1/3 of the kit) that could benefit from a balance pass. Spending time buffing one of the strongest tools in the live sorc kit is a detrimental detour that will ultimately result in nerfing the class in the wrong area (as sorcerer has always been nerfed). Streak sees more use than Ball of Lightning because there is no viable class stun. You do not address this issue by turning a defensive utility skill into an offensive stun but rather by turning the CLASS STUN into a usable ability *cough Rune Cage cough*.
Furthermore, one of the reasons that Streak was originally changed to be negated by block was due to abuse in group play where sorcs would spam a 0 counter AoE CC. Shards stun was removed for similar reasons. Why reimplement this in Streak?
Now of course we do not need a repeat of the Rune Cage fiasco, but neither do we need Ball of Lightning to parallel those dark times.
Please consider not over-buffing an already powerful ability.
Ideally leave Streak and Ball of Lightning untouched from current Live versions. But definitely do not allow Ball of Lightning to persist beyond 1.5 seconds.
If you want to give Sorcerers an offensive stun, buff Defensive Rune/Rune Cage.
If you want to increase mobility, buff the underwhelming Boundless Storm. Give this ability snare immunity.
If you want to create scenarios of critical decision-making instead of giving players a singular ability that out-performs everything else, give Hurricane snare immunity and force players to choose between survivability and offence. Do not give players the best of both worlds in a single skill (see Draining Shot changes in 5.0.0)
TL;DR:
Leave Streak and Ball of Lightning as they are on Live. Give Lightning Form and morphs snare immunity. Standardize power levels properly.
The change to no cost fatigue based on travel distance is a welcome one. That is an excellent change
Critical responses:
Edited by IAVITNI on October 7, 2019 11:28PM Sorcerer
Storm Calling
- Bolt Escape
- Ball of Lightning (morph):
- This morph no longer stuns enemies at its end location. It does retain the new addition of gaining Snare and Immobilize immunity after casting, to help stand this morph out as a defensive escape tool.
- Fixed an issue where this morph was only absorbing spell-based projectiles, rather than any, as the tooltip indicates.
- This morph no longer stuns enemies at its end location. It does retain the new addition of gaining Snare and Immobilize immunity after casting, to help stand this morph out as a defensive escape tool.
- Streak (morph): This morph now continues to stun enemies at your end location, in addition to stunning enemies behind you after ending. Note that the damage still only applies to enemies you pass through.
- Ball of Lightning (morph):
The above changes are a step in the right direction. The differentiation between BoL and Streak as an offensive/defensive morph is solid. Would still prefer immunity on Lightning Form as it would increase diversity but that is an opinion. Objectively, only 1 issue remains...
The primary issue of the skill being overloaded remains: the absorb duration is too long. 1-1.5 seconds of absorb is more than enough and is already very strong. If the absorb goes live with the full 3 second duration it will be overbearing to all ranged builds. This is nearly the exact same situation as DK wings. The reflect wasn't necessarily problematic on wings, it was the uptime that prevented range builds from being able to provide pressure. High uptime on 100% damage nullification is incredibly problematic. Complete immunity to damage should not last more than a single GCD in a game with no cool downs.
Because the ability has no stun, it may be more balanced to further reduce the fatigue cost specifically for BoL (though not necessary. IMO just reduce duration to 1.5 and the ability is in a good place)
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Please do not let the current version of Ball go Lightning go unscathed through the PTS. Ball of Lightning and Streak are two of the most used and iconic skills within the sorcerer kit. If the idea is to increase sorc identity via mobility you do not do that by making arguably the best mobile ability more mobile via snare immunity and ranged CC/snare immunity from all magicka builds. The BoL change was accompanied with a Streak nerf. Please revert this as well and do not leave the class with 2 useless morphs.
By that logic, templars should should have their BoL (Breath of Life) buffed to give them further identity as the healing class. The changes to Ball of Lightning and Streak are unnecessary, and in regards to the former, a huge overloading of an already strong ability.
Wings were nerfed for being over bearing to ranged builds. Ball of Lightning, at 3 seconds has the same effect except it is even stronger. For all those DK mains who were upset about the wings nerf, please join a sorc main in nerfing Ball of Lightning. If your class cannot have overloaded abilities neither should sorcerers.
Adding to that, the change to Ball of Lightning turns it from a defensive ability to a hybrid offensive/defensive ability (that in actuality out-performs Streak on the PTS). The stun change, while welcomed as it provides a much needed fix to a void in the class kit, is actually killing diversity. Instead of having 1 offensive and 1 defensive morph, you know have 1 over-performing morph and the other one.
Sorcerer already has a plethora of underperforming skills (I'd strongly argue 1/3 of the kit) that could benefit from a balance pass. Spending time buffing one of the strongest tools in the live sorc kit is a detrimental detour that will ultimately result in nerfing the class in the wrong area (as sorcerer has always been nerfed). Streak sees more use than Ball of Lightning because there is no viable class stun. You do not address this issue by turning a defensive utility skill into an offensive stun but rather by turning the CLASS STUN into a usable ability *cough Rune Cage cough*.
Furthermore, one of the reasons that Streak was originally changed to be negated by block was due to abuse in group play where sorcs would spam a 0 counter AoE CC. Shards stun was removed for similar reasons. Why reimplement this in Streak?
Now of course we do not need a repeat of the Rune Cage fiasco, but neither do we need Ball of Lightning to parallel those dark times.
Please consider not over-buffing an already powerful ability.
Ideally leave Streak and Ball of Lightning untouched from current Live versions. But definitely do not allow Ball of Lightning to persist beyond 1.5 seconds.
If you want to give Sorcerers an offensive stun, buff Defensive Rune/Rune Cage.
If you want to increase mobility, buff the underwhelming Boundless Storm. Give this ability snare immunity.
If you want to create scenarios of critical decision-making instead of giving players a singular ability that out-performs everything else, give Hurricane snare immunity and force players to choose between survivability and offence. Do not give players the best of both worlds in a single skill (see Draining Shot changes in 5.0.0)
TL;DR:
Leave Streak and Ball of Lightning as they are on Live. Give Lightning Form and morphs snare immunity. Standardize power levels properly.
The change to no cost fatigue based on travel distance is a welcome one. That is an excellent change
Critical responses:
Concern: BoL will get over nerfed and we are left with 2 useless morphs
A valid concern. Solution would simply be the above tl:dr;
Concern: the stun and snare immunity are an excellent addition to the sorcerer kit. Only the BoL duration is an issue.
100% agree. Excluding the absorption duration, BoL as is in PTS is not op, but it is overloaded. The class defensive mobility morph is currently the premier offensive stun and provides too much mobile utility on the PTS.
The mechanics of the stun and snare immunity are not problematic themselves. The issues are
1.Removes morph identity: It turns the defensive morph into an defensive and offensive one, and thus devalues the original offensive morph (which was nerfed) which leads into;
2. Devalues Alternative Abilities: It overloads an already strong ability and devalues alternatives. The class stun is outperformed by a utility skill.
3. Inhibits Progress: instead of elevating underperforming abilities, the BoL changes nerfs Streak (in order to differentiate BoL, Streak was changed [nerfed] and removed the opportunity to buff other skills by consuming overall class power budget. Snare immunity on Lightning Form and morphs would result in a much healthier class
4. Promotes Unhealthy Gameplay-one button wonders are not good game design. Global cooldowns are integral to balance. Giving a class the ability to perform 2-3 GCDs worth of mechanics in a single GCD reduces counter-play for opponents and removes critical thinking for the user
A valid concern. Solution would simply be the above tl:dr;
Concern: the stun and snare immunity are an excellent addition to the sorcerer kit. Only the BoL duration is an issue.
100% agree. Excluding the absorption duration, BoL as is in PTS is not op, but it is overloaded. The class defensive mobility morph is currently the premier offensive stun and provides too much mobile utility on the PTS.
The mechanics of the stun and snare immunity are not problematic themselves. The issues are
1.Removes morph identity: It turns the defensive morph into an defensive and offensive one, and thus devalues the original offensive morph (which was nerfed) which leads into;
2. Devalues Alternative Abilities: It overloads an already strong ability and devalues alternatives. The class stun is outperformed by a utility skill.
3. Inhibits Progress: instead of elevating underperforming abilities, the BoL changes nerfs Streak (in order to differentiate BoL, Streak was changed [nerfed] and removed the opportunity to buff other skills by consuming overall class power budget. Snare immunity on Lightning Form and morphs would result in a much healthier class
4. Promotes Unhealthy Gameplay-one button wonders are not good game design. Global cooldowns are integral to balance. Giving a class the ability to perform 2-3 GCDs worth of mechanics in a single GCD reduces counter-play for opponents and removes critical thinking for the user
40
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DCanadianBacon✭✭✭As a Sorc Main since beta, I wholeheartedly agree. Leave Streak/Ball of Lightning alone. Other than the basic fixes to the infamous "streak bug", these changes aren't necessary, as both morphs already see a lot of play in PvP in their current forms. Last's patch's changes to streak/ball of lightning were excellent, and I don't believe the skill needs anymore tinkering with (at least for the near foreseeable future).9 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Have you lost your mind?. I really hope ZOS doesn't read this thread.
If you think ZOS is going to make sensible changes based on your feedback, you don't know them. Here's the most likely scenario: They nerf Ball of Lightning back to its current form or worse BUT they leave Streak crippled with the dumb "reverse cone" area of effect.
Please do not EVER ask for nerfs of Sorc abilities, because they will give much more nerf than you bargained for!
Furthermore, why are you guys caping so hard for Streak? Ball of Lightning has needed some love for years, and now that it finally got some, you guys want to NERF it before we even get to enjoy it on the live server? That's crazy!
If ZOS listens to you guys, all were going to end up with is TWO useless morphs. If that's your idea of balance, you can keep it.
Edited by Emma_Overload on October 2, 2019 7:57AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE17 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just putting this here.
Wings - 50% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity. BoL - 100% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity, Teleport, Unblockable and Undodgeable Stun18 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Have you lost your mind?. I really hope ZOS doesn't read this thread.
If you think ZOS is going to make sensible changes based on your feedback, you don't know them. Here's the most likely scenario: They nerf Ball of Lightning back to its current form or worse BUT they leave Streak crippled with the dumb "reverse cone" area of effect.
Please do not EVER ask for nerfs of Sorc abilities, because they will give much more nerf than you bargained for!
Furthermore, why are you guys caping so hard for Steak? Ball of Lightning has needed some love for years, and now that it finally got some, you guys want to NERF it before we even get to enjoy it on the live server? That's crazy!
If ZOS listens to you guys, all were going to end up with is TWO useless morphs. If that's your idea of balance, you can keep it.
PTS BoL is OP af, it is virtually sort of a better Wings+Mass Hysteria+Teleport. It needs to provide either Ranged immunity for 2 secs like in live or the snare immunity, not both. BoL does not need any love, the reason it is not used as much is that it is a defensive option, which does not suit the playstyle most magsorcs prefer.Edited by susmitds on October 2, 2019 6:32AM17 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree with OP, as MagSorc, altough the fatigue cost above 1m is welcomed.
Race against time its a good snare immunity+major expedition
Instead fix the bugs around those skills.Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Have you lost your mind?. I really hope ZOS doesn't read this thread.
If you think ZOS is going to make sensible changes based on your feedback, you don't know them. Here's the most likely scenario: They nerf Ball of Lightning back to its current form or worse BUT they leave Streak crippled with the dumb "reverse cone" area of effect.
Please do not EVER ask for nerfs of Sorc abilities, because they will give much more nerf than you bargained for!
Furthermore, why are you guys caping so hard for Steak? Ball of Lightning has needed some love for years, and now that it finally got some, you guys want to NERF it before we even get to enjoy it on the live server? That's crazy!
If ZOS listens to you guys, all were going to end up with is TWO useless morphs. If that's your idea of balance, you can keep it.
PTS BoL is OP af, it is virtually sort of a better Wings+Mass Hysteria+Teleport. It needs to provide either Ranged immunity for 2 secs like in live or the snare immunity, not both. BoL does not need any love, the reason it is not used as much is that it is a defensive option, which does not suit the playstyle most magsorcs prefer.
The main problem is BoL is supposed to be the defensive morph and Streak the ofensive morph. Currently, BoL suits better even for offense and that's a design flaw.
I still prefer Streak for guaranteed Shooting Star hits, but if I ever switch my ofensive ulti I will switch Streak to BoL as well.5 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭At this point I believe forumers are becoming Nerf Addicts.
ZOS: buffs one class skills
Players: No, no, no! No buffs please! Nerf it now.
Or people disguise themselves as Class X mains, just to give more weight to their nerf claims.
Or people are so tired of change at this point that the only feedback they provide now is Troll feedback
8 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Have you lost your mind?. I really hope ZOS doesn't read this thread.
If you think ZOS is going to make sensible changes based on your feedback, you don't know them. Here's the most likely scenario: They nerf Ball of Lightning back to its current form or worse BUT they leave Streak crippled with the dumb "reverse cone" area of effect.
Please do not EVER ask for nerfs of Sorc abilities, because they will give much more nerf than you bargained for!
Furthermore, why are you guys caping so hard for Steak? Ball of Lightning has needed some love for years, and now that it finally got some, you guys want to NERF it before we even get to enjoy it on the live server? That's crazy!
If ZOS listens to you guys, all were going to end up with is TWO useless morphs. If that's your idea of balance, you can keep it.
They are caping for Steak cause it's dinner time?2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just putting this here.
Wings - 50% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity. BoL - 100% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity, Teleport, Unblockable and Undodgeable Stun
Good point! They should make the two spells more balanced by:
1) Giving Reflective Plate an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost mechanic
2) Making BoL absorb ALL projectiles, not just spell projectiles
LOL, if you ever actually played mag Sorc, you would know BoL doesn't swallow physical attacks.
Also, 6 seconds of 50% protection seems well balanced against only 3 second of 100% protection.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE11 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just putting this here.
Wings - 50% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity. BoL - 100% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity, Teleport, Unblockable and Undodgeable Stun
While i agree with the topic - i think neither streak nor bol should have been touched on pts compared to live.
The statement not 100% correct.
Bol is 100% magica projectile reduction for 3s.
Wings is 50% reduction on ranged attacks all projectiles - which are quite a few more.
Edited by Derra on October 2, 2019 7:55AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 506 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can only agree with this post.
In duels on specs like Magnb, magwarden or Magnecro against a sorc using BoL you will see how there isn't a single chance of killing the sorc.
In a 10 minute duel on pts i hit 1 assassins will on the sorc the plethora of them flew right into the glowing ball of frustration.
The current BoL implementation is like making dodge roll ignore all dodgeable abilities for 3 more seconds, sounds unbalanced right?
Well that's exactly what BoL currently is on pts.
Bringing this skill onto the live servers will inevitably lead to a huge outcry of many people who'll fight those sorcs which in the end will result in nerfs across the board for magsorcs.3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Have you lost your mind?. I really hope ZOS doesn't read this thread.
If you think ZOS is going to make sensible changes based on your feedback, you don't know them. Here's the most likely scenario: They nerf Ball of Lightning back to its current form or worse BUT they leave Streak crippled with the dumb "reverse cone" area of effect.
Please do not EVER ask for nerfs of Sorc abilities, because they will give much more nerf than you bargained for!
Furthermore, why are you guys caping so hard for Steak? Ball of Lightning has needed some love for years, and now that it finally got some, you guys want to NERF it before we even get to enjoy it on the live server? That's crazy!
If ZOS listens to you guys, all were going to end up with is TWO useless morphs. If that's your idea of balance, you can keep it.
PTS BoL is OP af, it is virtually sort of a better Wings+Mass Hysteria+Teleport. It needs to provide either Ranged immunity for 2 secs like in live or the snare immunity, not both. BoL does not need any love, the reason it is not used as much is that it is a defensive option, which does not suit the playstyle most magsorcs prefer.
I´d say bol is not used is because ZOS removed any good stun alternatives to streak.
BOL is the better morph even on live. It just doesn´t provide needed functionality.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just putting this here.
Wings - 50% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity. BoL - 100% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity, Teleport, Unblockable and Undodgeable Stun
While i agree with the topic - i think neither streak nor bol should have been touched on pts compared to live.
The statement not 100% correct.
Bol is 100% magica projectile reduction for 3s.
Wings is 50% reduction on ranged attacks - which are quite a few more.
Wings is 50% reduction on projectiles, not ranged attacks.1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Have you lost your mind?. I really hope ZOS doesn't read this thread.
If you think ZOS is going to make sensible changes based on your feedback, you don't know them. Here's the most likely scenario: They nerf Ball of Lightning back to its current form or worse BUT they leave Streak crippled with the dumb "reverse cone" area of effect.
Please do not EVER ask for nerfs of Sorc abilities, because they will give much more nerf than you bargained for!
Furthermore, why are you guys caping so hard for Steak? Ball of Lightning has needed some love for years, and now that it finally got some, you guys want to NERF it before we even get to enjoy it on the live server? That's crazy!
If ZOS listens to you guys, all were going to end up with is TWO useless morphs. If that's your idea of balance, you can keep it.
PTS BoL is OP af, it is virtually sort of a better Wings+Mass Hysteria+Teleport. It needs to provide either Ranged immunity for 2 secs like in live or the snare immunity, not both. BoL does not need any love, the reason it is not used as much is that it is a defensive option, which does not suit the playstyle most magsorcs prefer.
Unlike BoL, Wings and Mass Hysteria do not leave the caster facing in the WRONG direction to execute a follow-up attack. No matter how fast you turn around, good players will always break free of the stun before you can toss a frag.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE6 -
coradaelu✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Have you lost your mind?. I really hope ZOS doesn't read this thread.
If you think ZOS is going to make sensible changes based on your feedback, you don't know them. Here's the most likely scenario: They nerf Ball of Lightning back to its current form or worse BUT they leave Streak crippled with the dumb "reverse cone" area of effect.
Please do not EVER ask for nerfs of Sorc abilities, because they will give much more nerf than you bargained for!
Furthermore, why are you guys caping so hard for Steak? Ball of Lightning has needed some love for years, and now that it finally got some, you guys want to NERF it before we even get to enjoy it on the live server? That's crazy!
If ZOS listens to you guys, all were going to end up with is TWO useless morphs. If that's your idea of balance, you can keep it.
PTS BoL is OP af, it is virtually sort of a better Wings+Mass Hysteria+Teleport. It needs to provide either Ranged immunity for 2 secs like in live or the snare immunity, not both. BoL does not need any love, the reason it is not used as much is that it is a defensive option, which does not suit the playstyle most magsorcs prefer.
The main problem is BoL is supposed to be the defensive morph and Streak the ofensive morph. Currently, BoL suits better even for offense and that's a design flaw.
I still prefer Streak for guaranteed Shooting Star hits, but if I ever switch my ofensive ulti I will switch Streak to BoL as well.
The BoL was overnerfed, the orb lasted 6.5s and was down to 2s, in scenarios openpvp fest lag when you teleport the orb dont even appear on the field so was useless, its ok with the 3s and the snare and immobilization immunity is a good synergy from this DEFENSIVE Morph, is a lot more difficult land the stun in PTS with BoL, is more useful stun the targets from origin location than the final location.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just putting this here.
Wings - 50% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity. BoL - 100% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity, Teleport, Unblockable and Undodgeable Stun
While i agree with the topic - i think neither streak nor bol should have been touched on pts compared to live.
The statement not 100% correct.
Bol is 100% magica projectile reduction for 3s.
Wings is 50% reduction on ranged attacks - which are quite a few more.
Wings is 50% reduction on projectiles, not ranged attacks.
Still affects stamina and magica.
Idk about warden bird tbh.
The biggest difference is one affected only magica while the other doesn´t.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just putting this here.
Wings - 50% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity. BoL - 100% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity, Teleport, Unblockable and Undodgeable Stun
While i agree with the topic - i think neither streak nor bol should have been touched on pts compared to live.
The statement not 100% correct.
Bol is 100% magica projectile reduction for 3s.
Wings is 50% reduction on ranged attacks - which are quite a few more.
Wings is 50% reduction on projectiles, not ranged attacks.
Still affects stamina and magica.
Idk about warden bird tbh.
The biggest difference is one affected only magica while the other doesn´t.
Unless they removed it as an exception when they took the reflect away (old wings didn't used to reflect Warden's bird), it shouldn't.
But yeah, it does affect both magicka and stamina projectiles, was more just mentioning that wings is only projectiles, not all ranged attacks, which does cut the list down.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just putting this here.
Wings - 50% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity. BoL - 100% ranged reduction, 2s snare immunity, Teleport, Unblockable and Undodgeable Stun
While i agree with the topic - i think neither streak nor bol should have been touched on pts compared to live.
The statement not 100% correct.
Bol is 100% magica projectile reduction for 3s.
Wings is 50% reduction on ranged attacks - which are quite a few more.
Wings is 50% reduction on projectiles, not ranged attacks.
Still affects stamina and magica.
Idk about warden bird tbh.
The biggest difference is one affected only magica while the other doesn´t.
Unless they removed it as an exception when they took the reflect away (old wings didn't used to reflect Warden's bird), it shouldn't.
But yeah, it does affect both magicka and stamina projectiles, was more just mentioning that wings is only projectiles, not all ranged attacks, which does cut the list down.
Yeah i´ve corrected my post.
I also think the increased absorb time on BOL is the biggest issue on pts. The other functionalities aren´t that problematic. 3s of absorb are.
But then i also get the notion of emma - streak should not have been touched. It feels crap on pts and i have the same fear that when the devs touch BOL now we will end up with a nerfed bol and a nerfed streak.Edited by Derra on October 2, 2019 7:58AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Have you lost your mind?. I really hope ZOS doesn't read this thread.
If you think ZOS is going to make sensible changes based on your feedback, you don't know them. Here's the most likely scenario: They nerf Ball of Lightning back to its current form or worse BUT they leave Streak crippled with the dumb "reverse cone" area of effect.
Please do not EVER ask for nerfs of Sorc abilities, because they will give much more nerf than you bargained for!
Furthermore, why are you guys caping so hard for Steak? Ball of Lightning has needed some love for years, and now that it finally got some, you guys want to NERF it before we even get to enjoy it on the live server? That's crazy!
If ZOS listens to you guys, all were going to end up with is TWO useless morphs. If that's your idea of balance, you can keep it.
They are caping for Steak cause it's dinner time?
😂 fixed. I can barely read on this iPad.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok let me explain something to sorcs that doesn't agree with OP.
Do you remember rune cage? The skill that used to be undodgeable cc ranged cc? It was awesome and I loved it, but then ZOS decided to make it's damage component should fire of whenever stun is broken, not only at the end of skill. This has lead to situation where sorcs could line up few delayed skills and blow people up almost from 100%.
Next what happened was in general masssive cry for nerf ending in gutting the skill to state we have now aka not very useful.
Remembering above do you really want to have BoL and Streak nerfed above what we have on live? Because this is how you achieve it. With ZOS overbuffing skill always lead to overnerfing.
I don't really care because I don't play sorc as much as I used to but you will mark my words when nerf hammer comes.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge11 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok let me explain something to sorcs that doesn't agree with OP.
Do you remember rune cage? The skill that used to be undodgeable cc ranged cc? It was awesome and I loved it, but then ZOS decided to make it's damage component should fire of whenever stun is broken, not only at the end of skill. This has lead to situation where sorcs could line up few delayed skills and blow people up almost from 100%.
Next what happened was in general masssive cry for nerf ending in gutting the skill to state we have now aka not very useful.
Remembering above do you really want to have BoL and Streak nerfed above what we have on live? Because this is how you achieve it. With ZOS overbuffing skill always lead to overnerfing.
I don't really care because I don't play sorc as much as I used to but you will mark my words when nerf hammer comes.
The issue is: Streak was already nerfed on pts - for no real reason.
So we will most likely end up with a nerfed streak either way. The only question is if we end up with a nerfed bol aswell
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 506 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can only agree with this post.
In duels on specs like Magnb, magwarden or Magnecro against a sorc using BoL you will see how there isn't a single chance of killing the sorc.
In a 10 minute duel on pts i hit 1 assassins will on the sorc the plethora of them flew right into the glowing ball of frustration.
The current BoL implementation is like making dodge roll ignore all dodgeable abilities for 3 more seconds, sounds unbalanced right?
Well that's exactly what BoL currently is on pts.
Bringing this skill onto the live servers will inevitably lead to a huge outcry of many people who'll fight those sorcs which in the end will result in nerfs across the board for magsorcs.
Players can dodge supposedly instant Crystal Frags just by wiggling back and forth, which costs zero resources. 3 measly seconds of spell projectile absorption from an ability with an exponentially increasing cost mechanic didn't seem like a lot to ask, especially considering it used to last 6 seconds and nobody cared.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I can't grasp the idea behind the stun changes. If BoL is truely meant to be an escape mechanic rather than an jack of all trades, we should be able to use it to get rid of persuers by stunning them and teleporting away. The logic dictates that it stuns at the beginning to archieve that.
Streak on the other hand was the offensive move. The cone makes it unnecessary hard to stun enemies at the end. I prefer how it stuns on live. You close the gap, stun and follow up. As a melee stamsorc it has it's downsides if you're already to close. Turning around and walking back only disrupts but doesn't allow you to combo. But that's okay because it's the price you pay for undodgeable/unavoidable stun with damage and mobility.
However, I argued about a snare immunity on BoL in the past, before RaT became a thing. Not sure if BoL needs it now. What it doesn't need is a buff, especially not when it cripples streak in the process.
But OP's post sounds strange, that I have to give to emma. My guess is ZoS reverts BoL and leaves Streak in it's sorry state. If they are hellbend on changing or buffing those morphs they should simply add snare removal (not immunity) on BoL and that's it. Leave it alone otherwise.5 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I can only agree with this post.
In duels on specs like Magnb, magwarden or Magnecro against a sorc using BoL you will see how there isn't a single chance of killing the sorc.
In a 10 minute duel on pts i hit 1 assassins will on the sorc the plethora of them flew right into the glowing ball of frustration.
The current BoL implementation is like making dodge roll ignore all dodgeable abilities for 3 more seconds, sounds unbalanced right?
Well that's exactly what BoL currently is on pts.
Bringing this skill onto the live servers will inevitably lead to a huge outcry of many people who'll fight those sorcs which in the end will result in nerfs across the board for magsorcs.
Players can dodge supposedly instant Crystal Frags just by wiggling back and forth, which costs zero resources. 3 measly seconds of spell projectile absorption from an ability with an exponentially increasing cost mechanic didn't seem like a lot to ask, especially considering it used to last 6 seconds and nobody cared.
If nobody cared when it lasted 6.5s - why was it reduced to 2.5?
Oh right - that happened because people did care. And the same people still care and the absorb is broken op.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 506 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I can only agree with this post.
In duels on specs like Magnb, magwarden or Magnecro against a sorc using BoL you will see how there isn't a single chance of killing the sorc.
In a 10 minute duel on pts i hit 1 assassins will on the sorc the plethora of them flew right into the glowing ball of frustration.
The current BoL implementation is like making dodge roll ignore all dodgeable abilities for 3 more seconds, sounds unbalanced right?
Well that's exactly what BoL currently is on pts.
Bringing this skill onto the live servers will inevitably lead to a huge outcry of many people who'll fight those sorcs which in the end will result in nerfs across the board for magsorcs.
Players can dodge supposedly instant Crystal Frags just by wiggling back and forth, which costs zero resources. 3 measly seconds of spell projectile absorption from an ability with an exponentially increasing cost mechanic didn't seem like a lot to ask, especially considering it used to last 6 seconds and nobody cared.
Have you been on the pts and tested it?
Are you actually trying to tell me that BoL is fine because people outplay you in melee range by breaking your Los by walking through you, something anyone can do and that can be countered easily?
When bol was 6 seconds it was hilariously overperforming but sure lets just say it wasn't.
Even without ever being affected by a cost increase you have an uptime of 60% on the ball which is way too high.
2 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok let me explain something to sorcs that doesn't agree with OP.
Do you remember rune cage? The skill that used to be undodgeable cc ranged cc? It was awesome and I loved it, but then ZOS decided to make it's damage component should fire of whenever stun is broken, not only at the end of skill. This has lead to situation where sorcs could line up few delayed skills and blow people up almost from 100%.
Next what happened was in general masssive cry for nerf ending in gutting the skill to state we have now aka not very useful.
Remembering above do you really want to have BoL and Streak nerfed above what we have on live? Because this is how you achieve it. With ZOS overbuffing skill always lead to overnerfing.
I don't really care because I don't play sorc as much as I used to but you will mark my words when nerf hammer comes.
Nerf Hammer is now a guaranteed proc each Patch Notes.
Skills are nerfed most of the time on skill usage data, not on performance: Devs see that players are enjoying a skill and using it, they swing the nerf bat... No fun allowed.
Plus it's a lot easier to rewrite a few skills each patch, using whatever excuse like "balance", "class identity" or "healthy gameplay", instead of actually working on NEW and interesting Skill Lines to open new gameplay against the old ones, Classes, Spellcrafting system or whatever... not that they are lazy but because they are overworked and don't have enough man power most likely.
i've come to think that Classes are for the Devs like a Chewing Gum: they chew on it over and over and over antil it becomes dry and flavorless.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Emma_Overload @Derra
Yes, I know that BoL is Spell Projectile absorption and not all projectile. I should have used the right terminology but mentioned 100% projectile in the sense that from a practical point of view, magicka classes, primarily magblade is affected mostly by the change. There are very limited "real" ranged effective stamina PvP builds cause it is mostly snipe-gankers that go ranged on stamina and as such stamina won't really effected.
Two things make BoL OP:
1) Magblades - This skill will make any Magsorc vs Magblade fight super lopsided. Any semi-decent magsorc will essentially hard counter magblades, denying them any real window to counter-burst.
2) Mobility - Bolt Escape is already one of the strongest mobility game and magsorc is by far the most mobile open world class. Makes no sense to attach further mobility bonuses on it.6 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I can only agree with this post.
In duels on specs like Magnb, magwarden or Magnecro against a sorc using BoL you will see how there isn't a single chance of killing the sorc.
In a 10 minute duel on pts i hit 1 assassins will on the sorc the plethora of them flew right into the glowing ball of frustration.
The current BoL implementation is like making dodge roll ignore all dodgeable abilities for 3 more seconds, sounds unbalanced right?
Well that's exactly what BoL currently is on pts.
Bringing this skill onto the live servers will inevitably lead to a huge outcry of many people who'll fight those sorcs which in the end will result in nerfs across the board for magsorcs.
Players can dodge supposedly instant Crystal Frags just by wiggling back and forth, which costs zero resources. 3 measly seconds of spell projectile absorption from an ability with an exponentially increasing cost mechanic didn't seem like a lot to ask, especially considering it used to last 6 seconds and nobody cared.
If nobody cared when it lasted 6.5s - why was it reduced to 2.5?
Oh right - that happened because people did care. And the same people still care and the absorb is broken op.
That's the next thing. Is there even a reason for a longer absorb now? It seems like it's the easy way out of the whole class identity misery. Buff one unique skill beyound comprehension and call it a day. Instead of reworking the pretty useless skills that linger in the skill trees.
To add to my last post. If they really want a cone on streak, they should turn it around. A tiny area at the beginning and a big front stun at the end. Not the other way around. Adjust cone width accordingly.2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I can only agree with this post.
In duels on specs like Magnb, magwarden or Magnecro against a sorc using BoL you will see how there isn't a single chance of killing the sorc.
In a 10 minute duel on pts i hit 1 assassins will on the sorc the plethora of them flew right into the glowing ball of frustration.
The current BoL implementation is like making dodge roll ignore all dodgeable abilities for 3 more seconds, sounds unbalanced right?
Well that's exactly what BoL currently is on pts.
Bringing this skill onto the live servers will inevitably lead to a huge outcry of many people who'll fight those sorcs which in the end will result in nerfs across the board for magsorcs.
Players can dodge supposedly instant Crystal Frags just by wiggling back and forth, which costs zero resources. 3 measly seconds of spell projectile absorption from an ability with an exponentially increasing cost mechanic didn't seem like a lot to ask, especially considering it used to last 6 seconds and nobody cared.
Have you been on the pts and tested it?
Are you actually trying to tell me that BoL is fine because people outplay you in melee range by breaking your Los by walking through you, something anyone can do and that can be countered easily?
When bol was 6 seconds it was hilariously overperforming but sure lets just say it wasn't.
Even without ever being affected by a cost increase you have an uptime of 60% on the ball which is way too high.
They don't have to walk through you to break LoS. They can just strafe back and forth in melee range, and even though you are facing them directly, the frag will not even leave your hands. There is nothing skillful about it. It's just an exploit enabled by poor coding that ZOS refuses to fix.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3
