PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

LinearParadox

So, lemme get this straight; DK trades mobility and executes (two of the most important things in PvP) for "durability and an attrition-based playstyle" so that's...

• Mobility
• Burst
• Execute
• Sustain
• Damage-over-Time
• Healing
• CC

All of this is supposed to help them "wear down" opponents at the cost of burst and mobility.
This already relegates DKs to duels and small-scale, but if played properly, with more skill and effort, and with more risk for less benefit than other classes and playstyles, they can be successful.

Now lets take a look at DKs after this coming patch;

• Mobility
• Burst
• Execute
• Sustain
• Damage-over-Time
• Healing
• CC

And this hilarious StoneFist change is supposed to make up for that? A prohibitively expensive, telegraphed, dodgeable, blockable, reflectable/absorbable "spammable" that neither fits their theme nor provides any reliable CC?

Yeahhh... I think I'll rename my DKs "Training Dummy".....

...Just kidding, I'll save my crowns and just shelve them

ethuiliel wrote: »

I wonder if it'd be a good idea to overhaul some of our passives to make the attrition playstyle a little more pronounced than it is right now. That way the base dots would still be uniform, and the passives would then make them stand out.

You mean like Necro's 10% DoT damage.. on a class that doesn't use DoTs? XD

Kadoin wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

a quick question...I'm a noob Dk given that I've always mained templars.
How am I supposed to actually kill another player if my main tools (dots) has been weakened?

Stack a punch of damage poisons and proc sets...the most disgusting and dishonorable way to play.

Ah yes, back to a proc meta where sets make the build. Wonderful.
For years we've begged them; buff the classes and give them identity, and nerf the sets. What do we get? Class nerfs and homogeneity while sets are made more impactful by comparison. Yeah, I feel "listened to". -_-

highnds

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

highnds wrote: »

I think we all need to wait for the next few PTS cycles to pass before we are all up in arms about the class identity situation for DK. IMO, from the looks of it, they are making all DoT abilities reflect similar damage first just so they can set themselves up to figure out a baseline on how much they should increase the damage of class DoT abilities over non-class DoT abilities for the next few PTS cycles for update 24. Am I correct in saying this @ZOS_GinaBruno?

We Need to be up in arms tho, changes only get reverted if there is a big enough outcry like with cast time for shields, most of the time even that doesnt work as countless other examples Show. Generally what is in the 1st PTS cycle is there to stay.

We really don't need to be if they've already made a point to say that they are going to be looking to fix class identity starting with this next patch and tuning those changes for the times to come. We all just need to be patient and relax and test changes on the PTS as they come.

StShoot

highnds wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

highnds wrote: »

I think we all need to wait for the next few PTS cycles to pass before we are all up in arms about the class identity situation for DK. IMO, from the looks of it, they are making all DoT abilities reflect similar damage first just so they can set themselves up to figure out a baseline on how much they should increase the damage of class DoT abilities over non-class DoT abilities for the next few PTS cycles for update 24. Am I correct in saying this @ZOS_GinaBruno?

We Need to be up in arms tho, changes only get reverted if there is a big enough outcry like with cast time for shields, most of the time even that doesnt work as countless other examples Show. Generally what is in the 1st PTS cycle is there to stay.

We really don't need to be if they've already made a point to say that they are going to be looking to fix class identity starting with this next patch and tuning those changes for the times to come. We all just need to be patient and relax and test changes on the PTS as they come.

hm are new to the game ? ^^
because zos always says, we have to wait for the later pts cycles and at the end they change nothing and the crapy patch goes live as it is.
Also if you love and main a class you dont want it to be a worthless, weak class, for the next 3 months until zos may or may not decide to fix it

Sanguinor2

highnds wrote: »

We really don't need to be if they've already made a point to say that they are going to be looking to fix class identity starting with this next patch and tuning those changes for the times to come. We all just need to be patient and relax and test changes on the PTS as they come.

DKs especially Need to be, currently the patch that was supposed to bring class identity to dks among others did Nothing except destroy the dk identity as the Attrition based class (thats how Zos described dk btw).

magictucktuck

StShoot wrote: »

highnds wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

highnds wrote: »

I think we all need to wait for the next few PTS cycles to pass before we are all up in arms about the class identity situation for DK. IMO, from the looks of it, they are making all DoT abilities reflect similar damage first just so they can set themselves up to figure out a baseline on how much they should increase the damage of class DoT abilities over non-class DoT abilities for the next few PTS cycles for update 24. Am I correct in saying this @ZOS_GinaBruno?

We Need to be up in arms tho, changes only get reverted if there is a big enough outcry like with cast time for shields, most of the time even that doesnt work as countless other examples Show. Generally what is in the 1st PTS cycle is there to stay.

We really don't need to be if they've already made a point to say that they are going to be looking to fix class identity starting with this next patch and tuning those changes for the times to come. We all just need to be patient and relax and test changes on the PTS as they come.

hm are new to the game ? ^^
because zos always says, we have to wait for the later pts cycles and at the end they change nothing and the crapy patch goes live as it is.
Also if you love and main a class you dont want it to be a worthless, weak class, for the next 3 months until zos may or may not decide to fix it

they took major evasion off rally, they made duel wield give major brutality on the first throw of the non gap closer morph of throwing blade instead of needing a light attack. those two just come to mind immediately from last patch. no doubt there is tons more, so I ask you.. are you new?

echo2omega

DK could certainly use some major tweeking.

This is especially true for the stamDPS and Healing skills that are available.

chrightt

DK probably should get a bit of DOT buff just like some other weak dots at the moment. Stagger mechanic on the new stamina fist should only require 4 stacks (stun on 5th) due to its cost. Going to be honest still hate moves like wings that makes you OP vs projectiles in general or spell ward. I think wings is a bit more ok but seriously these just make you so strong vs projectiles while useless vs stuff like melee attacks. Why don’t you add a 50% damage mitigation vs melee attacks on some other skills? Because it’ll be OP against melees. Exactly how every guy holding a bow and staff feels vs these polarizing skills.

StShoot

magictucktuck wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

highnds wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

highnds wrote: »

I think we all need to wait for the next few PTS cycles to pass before we are all up in arms about the class identity situation for DK. IMO, from the looks of it, they are making all DoT abilities reflect similar damage first just so they can set themselves up to figure out a baseline on how much they should increase the damage of class DoT abilities over non-class DoT abilities for the next few PTS cycles for update 24. Am I correct in saying this @ZOS_GinaBruno?

We Need to be up in arms tho, changes only get reverted if there is a big enough outcry like with cast time for shields, most of the time even that doesnt work as countless other examples Show. Generally what is in the 1st PTS cycle is there to stay.

We really don't need to be if they've already made a point to say that they are going to be looking to fix class identity starting with this next patch and tuning those changes for the times to come. We all just need to be patient and relax and test changes on the PTS as they come.

hm are new to the game ? ^^
because zos always says, we have to wait for the later pts cycles and at the end they change nothing and the crapy patch goes live as it is.
Also if you love and main a class you dont want it to be a worthless, weak class, for the next 3 months until zos may or may not decide to fix it

they took major evasion off rally, they made duel wield give major brutality on the first throw of the non gap closer morph of throwing blade instead of needing a light attack. those two just come to mind immediately from last patch. no doubt there is tons more, so I ask you.. are you new?

yeah and why to you think they did this ? same with cast time on shields etc.? because the comunity complained everywhere about it. So if stayed silent zos wouldnt change a thing

BohnT2

The whole molten weapons and stone fist skills have to be removed and replaced by something actually good.
There is no option either of the skills will ever be viable or help to strengthen identity unless you make them overperforming

StShoot

BohnT2 wrote: »

The whole molten weapons and stone fist skills have to be removed and replaced by something actually good.
There is no option either of the skills will ever be viable or help to strengthen identity unless you make them overperforming

yeah and there are some other abilitys morphs and passives that have to get the same treatment, for example shifting standart its rarly ever seen outside from ballgroups, they could give it a morph where the standart gets pinned on you back and the area effect follows you.

Ragnarock41

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

lucky_Sage

dk class DoTs should be like 2.0x not 1.25
non class dots should be 1.25 to 1.75 depending on range and secondary affects

DanStartheFirst

StShoot wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The whole molten weapons and stone fist skills have to be removed and replaced by something actually good.
There is no option either of the skills will ever be viable or help to strengthen identity unless you make them overperforming

yeah and there are some other abilitys morphs and passives that have to get the same treatment, for example shifting standart its rarly ever seen outside from ballgroups, they could give it a morph where the standart gets pinned on you back and the area effect follows you.

WHOAH, now THAT would be a freaking awesome way of doing it. *runs around with banner on back* I would be down for something like this hands down.

Fur_like_snow

I was dueling a bit of PTS last night.

Stone fist literally looks like you’re throwing a pile of **** at your enemy. It weaves just about as well as it looks, like ****. I know stam whip is a meme but this skill is a joke. Getting to stun to go off is really unrealistic 6 hits for a stun doesn’t work at all needs to be 3 stacks max.

I honestly don’t think noxious is worth slotting anymore. The DoT damage doesn’t justify the cost.

Sandman929

Every update someone says "RIP DK"...but this time I think they're actually on to something. What the hell is a DK supposed to be with their class kit ZOS?

SipofMaim

LinearParadox wrote: »

For years we've begged them; buff the classes and give them identity, and nerf the sets. What do we get? Class nerfs and homogeneity while sets are made more impactful by comparison. Yeah, I feel "listened to". -_-

My take is that the current team has a vision for combat that also lowers impact on the server and so raises performance. It appears to feature elevation of light attacks with class abilities for flavor, and severely limited class skill lines because it's vital every class have as many tank skills and heals as every other class. I hope that's not all of it.

But they also have to clear up everything they inherited from the Wroebel era that doesn't fit, and address the power creep (for some reason not starting with CP). They're doing it in stages three months long. Three long months of each awkward in-between stage on the path to... something.

It worries me that they seem to think the necro hits the mark for a well-designed class. (Maybe their vision includes all DDs being stamina specs.) But while I think they HEAR us saying we want strong classes and strong characters and for gear to be less important, I don't see any evidence they're going there. They think strengthening class identity is adding a couple more stamina morphs to class skills. Swing and a miss.

Sandman929

SipofMaim wrote: »

It worries me that they seem to think the necro hits the mark for a well-designed class..

So much this. Necro was supposed to be the crown jewel, since it had so much development time, right? A bunch of tethers and a constantly confused summon is what came off the drawing board, plus a couple of wildly over-tuned ultimates, initially.

BrentBlemish

DanStartheFirst wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The whole molten weapons and stone fist skills have to be removed and replaced by something actually good.
There is no option either of the skills will ever be viable or help to strengthen identity unless you make them overperforming

yeah and there are some other abilitys morphs and passives that have to get the same treatment, for example shifting standart its rarly ever seen outside from ballgroups, they could give it a morph where the standart gets pinned on you back and the area effect follows you.

WHOAH, now THAT would be a freaking awesome way of doing it. *runs around with banner on back* I would be down for something like this hands down.

That sounds cool! But I also feel like standard needs a poison morh. How cool would it be to drop a green standard that instead of a ring of fire, it was a ring of poison. AND then do the standard on your back thing and give Stam players a moveable AoE like every mag class has with Bats, Perma and destro ulti. (though i think that might be toooo strong, maybe just keep the standard as a recast to move it but still have it deal poison.)

Davadin

StamDK main.


*took a few weeks off to a new baby*

Oh look! PTS is up. I wonder what's up with Patch Notes.


......

*uninstall ESO*


Ok, seriously, what is up with DoT nerf? What *IS* our class identity now? Burst damage? Stuns? AoE? We still on wep-skill class? How's the new Stonefist?

Argh, gonna miss my 24k DoT green claw.........

Ragnarock41

@ZOS_Gilliam so just in case you might be interested in making a good new ability for this forsaken class, here is my 3 part guide on how to fix stonefist:

1. Make it melee so it has a consistent 7m range with the rest of things we would realistically use as stamDk.

2. Give it a new shiny cool awesome looking animation, preferably one that is melee rather than ranged so it can be weaved better too.. Venomous claws and noxious breath do have a good poison theme going with it. I'm not against stonefist doing physical dmg however it just looks ***, no amount of being constructive can change the fact that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY will look at stonefist and say "This looks cool, I'm glad I made a stamDk so I can spam stonefist all day." Now I'm not saying lets make it a FALCON PUNCH, I'm not even saying I would rather have stamwhip even though that is the truth but hey, have you guys seen how ugly stonefist looks?

Point is a lot of stamDks wanted a poison whip not because its overpowered but because it makes magDks cool , but they got this instead, its up to you guys to make stamDks feel like they weren't a long running meme after all. All stonefist did was add a lot of salt to the wound, unfortunately. I'm not expecting you to put any effort into this but It would be nice to end this PTS cycle with a good suprise.

3. Go back to redesigning how this ability works because honestly using an ability 6 times for a chance to get a stun is frustrating and honesly very stupid design.

Jayroo

I always perhaps thought DK'S were fire/poison focus.
making rocks a spammable is an interesting choice....

Red_Feather

I think the stonefist should add stacks of petrification to the enemy. Slowing the enemy and eventually freezing them in stone with each stack.

Lokey0024

Stonefist looks awesome, maybe later update the animation. DoTs might be a bit heavy hit, even if they apply the status effect every time you might want to buff burning/poisoned passive to make them hit harder or last longer. Or change embers/fiery breath to stack and increase the damage per stack, reinforcing Ardent ability spam to charge molten.

Do the stacks of staggered get purged in 1 cleanse or do they get taken off individually, or at all. This would protect dots from purging, a nice buff.

Banana

The dk dance has gone to *** gilliam.

redlink1979

I can't test in PTS but I'd like to have some info regarding parses using a stam dk.
Can anyone post some analysis, please?
Thanks in advance.

GoopCooper69

DKs have always been a DoT/attrition based class for dps. They take a hit while grindin' em down slowly until they burst. With that said, i think it is silly to nerf DoTs to such an extent that DKs/DoTs are no longer viable options for pvp combat. Please reconsider the dot nerf as it will render the DKs utterly useless in pvp. Also, it would be nice for the DKs to have a class execute, especially if the DoT changes go live.

Pain In The Axe

These changes are shameful, the PTS notes even said that the notes include great improvements for DK’s but I don’t see one good thing in these changes. Stonefist? How many times has this thing been changed? Even with all the changes it’s always been a garbage ability, why would anyone want to use that over fossilize? Now you want us to spam it 5 times in a row LOL I’ll pass. Now you want to go after all our dot pressure too? We have no effective burst on our class, we have very little to no mobility built into our class, our sustain is the toughest out of all the mag classes because we are not fighting from range and you want to increase our ability costs on top of that... I’ve played Mdk since beta and pvp’d On it ever since, we’ve been through some garbage changes before on the MDK but I have to say this is probably one of the worst or if not the worst one I’ve seen yet. I really hope y’all change this cause if it goes live I’m not sure what you think MDK will bring to pvp anymore other than just more annoying damageless tank meta

Guyle

All I'm gonna say is, I main a StamDK and don't really pvp. I dont have the time or disposition to make a different class and main that, and presumably keep doing it. If these changes go through, Im just simply done, until they get undone. Many other ppl are saying endgame vet and hm trials are going to be more difficult then they need to be and will be done with game as well. These changes are just bad, and I will be voting with my wallet.

JumpmanLane

I’m not giving feedback that’ll just be ignored. I’m not giving out builds. Whatever ZOS decides now they’ll un-decide to do it “next” patch and make things worse. They shouldn’t be reading the forums so much ANYWAY.

On a very basic level, the devs should have a feel for the game. A basic understanding of the implications of their changes. A real idea of how people actually play their game. They don’t. (As IF they don’t even play it lol.

The combat team should just roll a toon and just straight play the game ON LIVE SERVERS for 6 months to a year before they make any more changes to the game. They are out of touch or don’t know wtf they are doing in the first place.

Look, I’m not being funny but maybe the combat team needs to l2p the game on the crap servers we have to play on before they fiddle and fiddle with the game lol.

Arcanasx

BohnT2 wrote: »

The whole molten weapons and stone fist skills have to be removed and replaced by something actually good.
There is no option either of the skills will ever be viable or help to strengthen identity unless you make them overperforming

Molten Armaments (the morph that increases heavy attack damage) actually has good potential for heavy attack focused builds, especially when combined with off balance. And yes, from my own experience it actually works very well for me in PVP, so its definitely viable. Igneous Weapons (the morph that gives major brutality/sorcery) is the one that's lackluster, as players will rely on having their own source for the major buffs anyway; competent players at least.

The new Stonefist as it currently is on the PTS is a joke, and others have already pointed out the flaws of this skill as currently implemented. Not much else needs to be said.

Edit: I'd like to add that the addition of Major Brutality to the base skill is a great change (because Molten Armaments has it now too) as it will open up more options for stamina builds.