No More BOUND Items

therift

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree with this for one very simple reason.

The current system allows you to define clear progression steps.

1 : Creation of the character

2 : using pieces looted in solo contents

3 : crafting your sets

4 : loot of your first sets and achievment of your first dungeons

5 : improvement of your build in order to doing dungeons in veteran mode

6 : loot of monsters sets

7 : TRIALS !!!!!! (and loot of trials sets)

That's in theory how I see the game.

I must agree with this simple yet insightful assessment.

Back when the game was in beta, the devs commented twice that a hallmark of the design was to avoid a means for a new player to immediately acquire end-game gear and thereby avoid playing the bulk of the progression content. While these statements were related to the guild trading kiosk design, they also related to a wider context of building the game to encourage cooperative play, specifically world bosses in overland, the first expansion (Craglorn), dungeons, and trials.

The fact that some gear can only be acquired by playing with friends is a foundation principle of ESO design.

Tommy_The_Gun

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree with this for one very simple reason.

The current system allows you to define clear progression steps.

1 : Creation of the character

2 : using pieces looted in solo contents

3 : crafting your sets

4 : loot of your first sets and achievment of your first dungeons

5 : improvement of your build in order to doing dungeons in veteran mode

6 : loot of monsters sets

7 : TRIALS !!!!!! (and loot of trials sets)

That's in theory how I see the game.

I would have no problem with that, but Trials & Arenas are not supported by group finder. That severely limits ability to have further progress. The only alternatives are: Wait X hours in Craglorn spamming LFG nXtrail, be forced to join a guild or try to solo trials. And to be honest, I am more willing to try solo some Craglorn nTrials rather than join a guild.
I know it is an MMO. I get it. But it is also "play as you want" mmo. Somehow I can use group finder to do group dungeons. No strings attached, no need to join guilds. Hell, I can even use group finder to do DLC vet Hard mode dungeons. Not that I have high chance of completing them, but the game allows to do that. Game is like 5+ years old. Why up to this day we dont have a group finder for Trials or Arenas ? Is there any reason for that ? We have it for vet Dungeons DLCs that are arguable much harder than Craglorn trials.

Just add that, and ppl will be able to farm gear, and such threads as this one will go extinct.

Juhasow

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree with this for one very simple reason.

The current system allows you to define clear progression steps.

1 : Creation of the character

2 : using pieces looted in solo contents

3 : crafting your sets

4 : loot of your first sets and achievment of your first dungeons

5 : improvement of your build in order to doing dungeons in veteran mode

6 : loot of monsters sets

7 : TRIALS !!!!!! (and loot of trials sets)

That's in theory how I see the game.

I would have no problem with that, but Trials & Arenas are not supported by group finder. That severely limits ability to have further progress. The only alternatives are: Wait X hours in Craglorn spamming LFG nXtrail, be forced to join a guild or try to solo trials. And to be honest, I am more willing to try solo some Craglorn nTrials rather than join a guild.
I know it is an MMO. I get it. But it is also "play as you want" mmo. Somehow I can use group finder to do group dungeons. No strings attached, no need to join guilds. Hell, I can even use group finder to do DLC vet Hard mode dungeons. Not that I have high chance of completing them, but the game allows to do that. Game is like 5+ years old. Why up to this day we dont have a group finder for Trials or Arenas ? Is there any reason for that ? We have it for vet Dungeons DLCs that are arguable much harder than Craglorn trials.

Just add that, and ppl will be able to farm gear, and such threads as this one will go extinct.

What You say is wrong on many levels. First of all ESO "play as You want" was never advertised in the context You're giving to it. "Play as You want" idea was always connected with the ability for every class to play as any role and mix different gameplay archetypes since early advertisement days for ESO. How You are grouping with others was never part of that theme.

No You dont need to wait many hours to create group for normal trial. It usually takes 30 minutes top if You'll advertise Yoiself in larger area and also ask other group members to do the same.

Group dungeons are way easier to complete then their arena or trial counterparts. For example it's easier to complete any non DLC dungeon even with HM then DSA (non DLC arena) and it's easier to complete any DLC dungeon even with HM then BRP (DLC arena). You say that it's easier to complete craglorn trials then it is to complete DLC dungeons but that is kinda unfair comparision. You are comparing trials that were designed many years ago to freshly released content. And to be fair I dont agree with You and I think most of the vet DLC dungeons is still easier to complete then vet craglorn trials.

Dungeons are so easy that even fake tanks or fake healers are not an issue there and You can clear lot of them in 4x DD team. When it comes to arenas or trials that would've become a huge issue if You would have a fake tank there. There is many other reasons like that that separates arenas and trials from dungeons and creates the gap that makes group finder very unsuitable tool for trials and arenas.

commodore64

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree...

This is all well and good, but completely misses the point of RNG and repeating the same content over and over and not getting the drop you actually want, despite repeatedly acing the content. No?

Taleof2Cities

commodore64 wrote: »

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree...

This is all well and good, but completely misses the point of RNG and repeating the same content over and over and not getting the drop you actually want, despite repeatedly acing the content. No?

You must be new to MMOs ...

commodore64

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

commodore64 wrote: »

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree...

This is all well and good, but completely misses the point of RNG and repeating the same content over and over and not getting the drop you actually want, despite repeatedly acing the content. No?

You must be new to MMOs ...

I started with MUD around 1980 and one or two since. How about you? Why do you think all MMOs should follow a template?

Sanctum74

All content in this game can be completed with crafted or purchased gear with no need to farm at all. If you want something better or unique then you should have to work for it.

I can agree with the argument for a better rng system, but expecting to buy everything with no effort is a bad idea and just lazy imo.

FlopsyPrince

Ecstatica wrote: »

I am pretty sure I'm in the minority, but I miss the days where you had to grind for ages just to get together a decent trait overland set. The game was more fun back then.

The game was new to you, so you enjoyed that. You can never get that experience back again, since you have played for a while.

I remember how much fun it was riding my first horse across a zone in Warcraft. That was fun since the place was completely new. It was not fun trying it later after I had played through there many times. Those experiences are great and are why people like "new content" but it is impossible to crank that content out at a rate that is sufficient for the feeling and we must find other ways to have fun or do something else with our time.

Tommy_The_Gun

Juhasow wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree with this for one very simple reason.

The current system allows you to define clear progression steps.

1 : Creation of the character

2 : using pieces looted in solo contents

3 : crafting your sets

4 : loot of your first sets and achievment of your first dungeons

5 : improvement of your build in order to doing dungeons in veteran mode

6 : loot of monsters sets

7 : TRIALS !!!!!! (and loot of trials sets)

That's in theory how I see the game.

I would have no problem with that, but Trials & Arenas are not supported by group finder. That severely limits ability to have further progress. The only alternatives are: Wait X hours in Craglorn spamming LFG nXtrail, be forced to join a guild or try to solo trials. And to be honest, I am more willing to try solo some Craglorn nTrials rather than join a guild.
I know it is an MMO. I get it. But it is also "play as you want" mmo. Somehow I can use group finder to do group dungeons. No strings attached, no need to join guilds. Hell, I can even use group finder to do DLC vet Hard mode dungeons. Not that I have high chance of completing them, but the game allows to do that. Game is like 5+ years old. Why up to this day we dont have a group finder for Trials or Arenas ? Is there any reason for that ? We have it for vet Dungeons DLCs that are arguable much harder than Craglorn trials.

Just add that, and ppl will be able to farm gear, and such threads as this one will go extinct.

What You say is wrong on many levels. First of all ESO "play as You want" was never advertised in the context You're giving to it. "Play as You want" idea was always connected with the ability for every class to play as any role and mix different gameplay archetypes since early advertisement days for ESO. How You are grouping with others was never part of that theme.

No You dont need to wait many hours to create group for normal trial. It usually takes 30 minutes top if You'll advertise Yoiself in larger area and also ask other group members to do the same.

Group dungeons are way easier to complete then their arena or trial counterparts. For example it's easier to complete any non DLC dungeon even with HM then DSA (non DLC arena) and it's easier to complete any DLC dungeon even with HM then BRP (DLC arena). You say that it's easier to complete craglorn trials then it is to complete DLC dungeons but that is kinda unfair comparision. You are comparing trials that were designed many years ago to freshly released content. And to be fair I dont agree with You and I think most of the vet DLC dungeons is still easier to complete then vet craglorn trials.

Dungeons are so easy that even fake tanks or fake healers are not an issue there and You can clear lot of them in 4x DD team. When it comes to arenas or trials that would've become a huge issue if You would have a fake tank there. There is many other reasons like that that separates arenas and trials from dungeons and creates the gap that makes group finder very unsuitable tool for trials and arenas.

Can you please explain, how a group finder is unsuitable for arenas & 12 man trials ?
Arenas are also 4 man content. So there is pretty much NO reason for the group finder not to support them, even from a pure technical reason.

Trials are 12 man content, so it would require a different type of group finder. The easiest way would simply be to combine 3 groups of 4 people to form up one 12 man group. I know, it is not perfect as you would end up with 3 tanks, 3 healers and 6 DPS. You probably would want to have 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 DPS. But still, I dont see how it would not work on normal mode trials.

I think that the only reason ZOS have not done it is to keep forcing people to join guilds. This is not how it should be. You should not be forced to join guild, just to have further gear progression. You should have a choice. Do I want to join a guild or not. It is a part of "play as you want". I can play PvP solo, or in a guild. I can play PvE solo or in a guild. I can do Group dungeons, DLC dungeons, vet or normal either using group finder or in a guild. I have a choice. Weirdly, Arenas & Trials, somehow do not have this choice.

btw. Maybe that is just me, maybe I am super unlucky, but 30 min of LFG chat spam in Craglorn never happened for me. Once I was able to join a group in maybe like 1,5h. No joke. For me it is simply a waste of time. In that time I can probably farm some easier trial bosses solo and get more gear, than I would normally by wasting time for "LFG" to "maybe" form a group or not.

Juhasow

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree with this for one very simple reason.

The current system allows you to define clear progression steps.

1 : Creation of the character

2 : using pieces looted in solo contents

3 : crafting your sets

4 : loot of your first sets and achievment of your first dungeons

5 : improvement of your build in order to doing dungeons in veteran mode

6 : loot of monsters sets

7 : TRIALS !!!!!! (and loot of trials sets)

That's in theory how I see the game.

I would have no problem with that, but Trials & Arenas are not supported by group finder. That severely limits ability to have further progress. The only alternatives are: Wait X hours in Craglorn spamming LFG nXtrail, be forced to join a guild or try to solo trials. And to be honest, I am more willing to try solo some Craglorn nTrials rather than join a guild.
I know it is an MMO. I get it. But it is also "play as you want" mmo. Somehow I can use group finder to do group dungeons. No strings attached, no need to join guilds. Hell, I can even use group finder to do DLC vet Hard mode dungeons. Not that I have high chance of completing them, but the game allows to do that. Game is like 5+ years old. Why up to this day we dont have a group finder for Trials or Arenas ? Is there any reason for that ? We have it for vet Dungeons DLCs that are arguable much harder than Craglorn trials.

Just add that, and ppl will be able to farm gear, and such threads as this one will go extinct.

What You say is wrong on many levels. First of all ESO "play as You want" was never advertised in the context You're giving to it. "Play as You want" idea was always connected with the ability for every class to play as any role and mix different gameplay archetypes since early advertisement days for ESO. How You are grouping with others was never part of that theme.

No You dont need to wait many hours to create group for normal trial. It usually takes 30 minutes top if You'll advertise Yoiself in larger area and also ask other group members to do the same.

Group dungeons are way easier to complete then their arena or trial counterparts. For example it's easier to complete any non DLC dungeon even with HM then DSA (non DLC arena) and it's easier to complete any DLC dungeon even with HM then BRP (DLC arena). You say that it's easier to complete craglorn trials then it is to complete DLC dungeons but that is kinda unfair comparision. You are comparing trials that were designed many years ago to freshly released content. And to be fair I dont agree with You and I think most of the vet DLC dungeons is still easier to complete then vet craglorn trials.

Dungeons are so easy that even fake tanks or fake healers are not an issue there and You can clear lot of them in 4x DD team. When it comes to arenas or trials that would've become a huge issue if You would have a fake tank there. There is many other reasons like that that separates arenas and trials from dungeons and creates the gap that makes group finder very unsuitable tool for trials and arenas.

Can you please explain, how a group finder is unsuitable for arenas & 12 man trials ?
Arenas are also 4 man content. So there is pretty much NO reason for the group finder not to support them, even from a pure technical reason.

Trials are 12 man content, so it would require a different type of group finder. The easiest way would simply be to combine 3 groups of 4 people to form up one 12 man group. I know, it is not perfect as you would end up with 3 tanks, 3 healers and 6 DPS. You probably would want to have 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 DPS. But still, I dont see how it would not work on normal mode trials.

I think that the only reason ZOS have not done it is to keep forcing people to join guilds. This is not how it should be. You should not be forced to join guild, just to have further gear progression. You should have a choice. Do I want to join a guild or not. It is a part of "play as you want". I can play PvP solo, or in a guild. I can play PvE solo or in a guild. I can do Group dungeons, DLC dungeons, vet or normal either using group finder or in a guild. I have a choice. Weirdly, Arenas & Trials, somehow do not have this choice.

btw. Maybe that is just me, maybe I am super unlucky, but 30 min of LFG chat spam in Craglorn never happened for me. Once I was able to join a group in maybe like 1,5h. No joke. For me it is simply a waste of time. In that time I can probably farm some easier trial bosses solo and get more gear, than I would normally by wasting time for "LFG" to "maybe" form a group or not.

I mean umm , havn't You read what I've posted. Like all my comment was explaining why group finder is not suitable for arenas and trials. Arenas are harder then dungeons and when dungeons You can ignore peoples inability to play in arenas You cant when You also cannot have things like fake tanks happening in arenas. It simply wont work and amout of succesfull teams that would complete vDSA or vBRP through group finder would be extremly low almost non existant. Especially in vBRP You need coordinated team of people that knows what to do and thing like fake tank there cannot happen because at this point You can basically disban the team. And if group finder is just made to find a team for normal arena well You can do it as fast through zone chat.

Ah so now we would need "different type of group finder". Which "from a pure technical reason" would require additional hours of dev work just to get at the end some wierd group compositions to prevent teams from having fake tanks. Problem is if You would end up with 3 tanks 3 healers and 6 DDs in many vet trials You wouldnt be able to complete those trials considering all those people would be random players. And funily enough programming it the way You want would still not prevent fake tanks and fake healers from joining. There would be still possibility team would end up having 12 DDs because there is no way for group finder to determine wheter or not somebody joining the group finder really is the role he is assigned to. And then kicking that person from the team would require 11 people to accept which in random group can be harder since some people may not even know what's going on. Basically that idea creates more issues then it solves because for now only issue to solve is inability or laziness of some people to ask in zone chat for a group or to join a guild.

"Forcing people to join guilds" lol. Yeah it must be super forced on You to play with others in an online game created to play with others. For the second time I am saying "play as You want" was never used in the way You're trying to use it. It was just reffering to the possibility for every class to play as any role and to build Your setups with lot of freedom. It was never talking about how You're doing the content so stop pushing Your agenda towards that phrase. You're saying You can play PvP solo or in a group but do You consider playing solo so easy and smooth as playing in a group ? I dont think so. Same goes for doing trials or arenas. You dont have to join a guild to do those activities You can find a team through zone chat or friends list but it'll be simply harder to complete if You'll decide to do it that way. You are not forced to join a guild. You're just encouraged to do so if You really want to progress because it's a one of the steps in progression. Arenas and trials are simply too hard and too many things can go wrong to add them to group finder. Guilds are part of the harder progression. Saying You're forced to join a guild in ESO Is like saying that You're forced to use guns in first person shooters.

If it takes You so long to find a group in zone chat that means You're doing it very lazy way. Switch the maps few times advertise Yourself in few popular locations , check people from friends list and ask people You already have in group to do similar thing. That way You'll always find group for some trial in max 30 minutes and if Your goal is normal trial then You dont need 12m team there anyway (except AA).

Vlad9425

ku5h wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Game would get very boring if you could just buy everything and not have to do the content. Maybe they should tie bound items to the transmute crystal system so let’s say like paying 100 crystals to unbind items or something.

For me is exactly the opposite. There are so many fun builds out there i want to try out, but i simply won't go trough 10-50hrs grinding same dungeon over and over to get the gear. It would be much more fun to just buy the gear and enjoy playing what you actually want, instead lobotomizing yourself for hours grinding gear.

You’re thinking more about yourself than the bigger picture. If everything becomes buyable it devalues the content which would usually have to be completed to obtain those items. The current system is fine because a lot of the gear can be bought and a lot of the gear must be earned.

Nemeliom

Never gonna happen. Spending time in game and working hard is part of this kind of games objectives. If you get your insta-gratification for everything, you will end up playing for a month and leaving.

peacenote

Honestly, sometimes what makes me happiest is when I do a simple run, no one in my group is looking for any of the gear, and I can un-guilt-ily break all of the gear down for mats quickly after the run.

I think if I had to potentially consider EVERY piece of gear as to whether it might be useful to someone else (should it go in guild bank, to auction, to zone, etc.) before being able to break it down, my head would explode. I also do agree with what others have said that trying to get the right piece of gear is part of end game, and shouldn't be completely eliminated.

However I would not be against a currency, somewhat like transmute stones, that could build up towards buying a piece of gear very infrequently. I don't even care if, eventually, people that have been around a VERY long time and play a LOT would be able to "buy" their way out of the grind a little bit easier. Just something where, as mentioned, after the 100th run to try and get a BSW staff, I could use all of my "gear currency" and buy it. I would even support a version of this where the only option is a white training piece, and you'd have to upgrade and transmute it too. Just SOMETHING to give us an option when RNG truly hates us.

But NOT with gold. And NOT with crowns. Especially now that you can trade gold and crowns.

Just my opinion.

SugaComa

commodore64 wrote: »

Allow us to trade sets to remove the repetitive grind from the game and allow players to concentrate on what they want to do, for example PVP players could buy the items they need and continue to play PVP without having to gear up specifically for Trials etc. PVE players likewise for PVP-zone items.

End-game content players would get some rewards for being uber as the drops would still be scarce enough to keep the prices high.

We'd also be less likely to hoard bound items that could be replaced much more easily, freeing up some storage space.

From personal experience, I'd have happily paid 1m gold back in the day for a BSW flame staff that just wouldn't drop from CoA and save my 100th run...

Hell no ....

I'm a PvP player and honestly the minute you make it so PvP players can simply buy all the gear you kill all diversity

Currently most diversity comes from players not be able complete the sets they want so create work around that.

I myself don't have time to play to farm for perfected gear and the best stuff but I'd feel like I'm cheating my self out if an experience if I just bought my way to the gear I want

I'd rather see token system introduced so I can breakdown gear get tokens and then use them to buy the gear from a vendor in the dungeon

commodore64

Running nCoA 100 times for a poor RNG is not part of ENDGAME and killing build diversity. LOL

commodore64

Nemeliom wrote: »

Never gonna happen. Spending time in game and working hard is part of this kind of games objectives. If you get your insta-gratification for everything, you will end up playing for a month and leaving.

I'd argue having to repeat THE SAME DUNGEON over and over is more likely to make me want to quit. There is so much content in the game.

therift

commodore64 wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Never gonna happen. Spending time in game and working hard is part of this kind of games objectives. If you get your insta-gratification for everything, you will end up playing for a month and leaving.

I'd argue having to repeat THE SAME DUNGEON over and over is more likely to make me want to quit. There is so much content in the game.

You don't have to do what you're doing. You are choosing to fixate on getting a specific item. Completely unnecessary.

commodore64

therift wrote: »

commodore64 wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Never gonna happen. Spending time in game and working hard is part of this kind of games objectives. If you get your insta-gratification for everything, you will end up playing for a month and leaving.

I'd argue having to repeat THE SAME DUNGEON over and over is more likely to make me want to quit. There is so much content in the game.

You don't have to do what you're doing. You are choosing to fixate on getting a specific item. Completely unnecessary.

It's not unnecessary if it's the missing component in a build, lots of people have to do it....

This is for example, obviously I'm not actually running CoA every day myself right now, but EVERY player who has played this game has been stuck on the poor end of RNG at some point. I realise many of the forum trolls would have you believe they've never experienced a single bad RNG, or ever lost a BG it seems, but the rest of us certainly have.

MooseKnuckles88

Casterial wrote: »

No, this would harm the market... "Oh I bought this and no longer need it. Guess I'll sell it. Oh its worth more?"

Just a way for people to buy and sit on items.

I think maybe allowing us the option to unbind items with high gold or crown option would be cool so I could do the said above.

You're absolutely right, you better believe I'll be listing this gear such as a BSW inferno staff on traders, what's wrong with having another way of making gold in this game anyway? At least you'll have an opportunity to NOT depend on your own (or 3 other grp members) RNG for once, that alone is worth it. If you don't have the gold to buy the gear you want, then well....idk maybe sell gear you collect that other people may want, so you can then afford to buy what you want. Mind blowing, I know. Which 10x better than using crowns to unbind stuff, the game has enough real life cash grabs already.

Ydrisselle

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree with this for one very simple reason.

The current system allows you to define clear progression steps.

1 : Creation of the character

2 : using pieces looted in solo contents

3 : crafting your sets

4 : loot of your first sets and achievment of your first dungeons

5 : improvement of your build in order to doing dungeons in veteran mode

6 : loot of monsters sets

7 : TRIALS !!!!!! (and loot of trials sets)

That's in theory how I see the game.

I would have no problem with that, but Trials & Arenas are not supported by group finder. That severely limits ability to have further progress. The only alternatives are: Wait X hours in Craglorn spamming LFG nXtrail, be forced to join a guild or try to solo trials. And to be honest, I am more willing to try solo some Craglorn nTrials rather than join a guild.
I know it is an MMO. I get it. But it is also "play as you want" mmo. Somehow I can use group finder to do group dungeons. No strings attached, no need to join guilds. Hell, I can even use group finder to do DLC vet Hard mode dungeons. Not that I have high chance of completing them, but the game allows to do that. Game is like 5+ years old. Why up to this day we dont have a group finder for Trials or Arenas ? Is there any reason for that ? We have it for vet Dungeons DLCs that are arguable much harder than Craglorn trials.

Just add that, and ppl will be able to farm gear, and such threads as this one will go extinct.

What You say is wrong on many levels. First of all ESO "play as You want" was never advertised in the context You're giving to it. "Play as You want" idea was always connected with the ability for every class to play as any role and mix different gameplay archetypes since early advertisement days for ESO. How You are grouping with others was never part of that theme.

No You dont need to wait many hours to create group for normal trial. It usually takes 30 minutes top if You'll advertise Yoiself in larger area and also ask other group members to do the same.

Group dungeons are way easier to complete then their arena or trial counterparts. For example it's easier to complete any non DLC dungeon even with HM then DSA (non DLC arena) and it's easier to complete any DLC dungeon even with HM then BRP (DLC arena). You say that it's easier to complete craglorn trials then it is to complete DLC dungeons but that is kinda unfair comparision. You are comparing trials that were designed many years ago to freshly released content. And to be fair I dont agree with You and I think most of the vet DLC dungeons is still easier to complete then vet craglorn trials.

Dungeons are so easy that even fake tanks or fake healers are not an issue there and You can clear lot of them in 4x DD team. When it comes to arenas or trials that would've become a huge issue if You would have a fake tank there. There is many other reasons like that that separates arenas and trials from dungeons and creates the gap that makes group finder very unsuitable tool for trials and arenas.

Can you please explain, how a group finder is unsuitable for arenas & 12 man trials ?
Arenas are also 4 man content. So there is pretty much NO reason for the group finder not to support them, even from a pure technical reason.

Trials are 12 man content, so it would require a different type of group finder. The easiest way would simply be to combine 3 groups of 4 people to form up one 12 man group. I know, it is not perfect as you would end up with 3 tanks, 3 healers and 6 DPS. You probably would want to have 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 DPS. But still, I dont see how it would not work on normal mode trials.

I think that the only reason ZOS have not done it is to keep forcing people to join guilds. This is not how it should be. You should not be forced to join guild, just to have further gear progression. You should have a choice. Do I want to join a guild or not. It is a part of "play as you want". I can play PvP solo, or in a guild. I can play PvE solo or in a guild. I can do Group dungeons, DLC dungeons, vet or normal either using group finder or in a guild. I have a choice. Weirdly, Arenas & Trials, somehow do not have this choice.

btw. Maybe that is just me, maybe I am super unlucky, but 30 min of LFG chat spam in Craglorn never happened for me. Once I was able to join a group in maybe like 1,5h. No joke. For me it is simply a waste of time. In that time I can probably farm some easier trial bosses solo and get more gear, than I would normally by wasting time for "LFG" to "maybe" form a group or not.

It's simple: those need highly coordinated group play for success, which can't be done if you have a completely random group. Yes, you can try to go to Arenas with random people, but I'm sure you wouldn't win many times. Yes, you can play PvP solo, but you have subminimal chance to be Emperor - which is the ultimate goal of Cyrodiil. I get it, you don't want to be part of any permanent in-game group, but that also means there will always be things you will not be able to accomplish. Accept that and work for your available goals instead of them.

commodore64 wrote: »

therift wrote: »

commodore64 wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Never gonna happen. Spending time in game and working hard is part of this kind of games objectives. If you get your insta-gratification for everything, you will end up playing for a month and leaving.

I'd argue having to repeat THE SAME DUNGEON over and over is more likely to make me want to quit. There is so much content in the game.

You don't have to do what you're doing. You are choosing to fixate on getting a specific item. Completely unnecessary.

It's not unnecessary if it's the missing component in a build, lots of people have to do it....

This is for example, obviously I'm not actually running CoA every day myself right now, but EVERY player who has played this game has been stuck on the poor end of RNG at some point. I realise many of the forum trolls would have you believe they've never experienced a single bad RNG, or ever lost a BG it seems, but the rest of us certainly have.

Many people thinks that MMOs are declining after a brief very successful period - and many think that part of that decline started when aspects of the genre were made much easier to accomplish. Yes, those developer decisions also made the genre evolve and grow beyond a small niche playstyle. However shortening the grind is dangerous: if the players can finish their goals too quickly, they have to face content drought - "I have nothing to do". Too many fast travel options, and nobody will be in the wilderness. Too high loot chances and the rarest items will lose their value since everybody can acquire them. Thre must be boundaries and differences between the players based on skill, free time or market knowledge (yes, I think it's acceptable to have rich people who can make money fast and people who can't).
There is also a false premise: every player can get everything in the game. No, they can't. Some have bad luck, some have not enough skill, and some have no interest to do something even for a lucrative reward. I think that's perfectly acceptable. You can diminish bad luck through gear tokens and individually adjusted loot chances (aka "if you didn't get anything useful you will have a higher chance next time"), but if the devs didn't find balance with that, gear will lose its worth entirely.

idk

therift wrote: »

idk wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

I agree with the OP.

And originally everything that dropped could be sold - didn’t harm the market then, so it won’t now.

I do not recall a time since the game launched that everything was BoE. Granted, trial gear was not in the game on day one but Ebon armor, worm cult and the stamin a set in that roundup were always BoP. There were other sets in dungeons that were BoP. Trial gear was BoP from the day it was released and vDSA Master weapons were always BoP

Update 12/One Tamriel was the Update that set the standard: All dungeon and trial gear is BoP; overland is BoE. You recall correctly; there was a hodge-podge approach to BoE and BoP.

The Forums had a meltdown with predictions that trading guilds would cease to operate, trials would be inaccessible to players who did not already have the gear, and a mass exodus of frustrated players would kill the game.

As usual, all the dire predictions came to nought. And as usual, they make for delightfully amusing reading in retrospect. I just read one today that ran to several pages after Update 12 hit the PTS. I think it was patch 2.6 or perhaps 2.7.

Doom, gloom, defeat, and despair. It's a complete laugh riot.

I may have this all wrong but I can only guess you are schooling me on some of the history of the game because you think I got things wrong yet nothing you have said has anything to do with how the game was at launch which is the topic of my comment and what I replied to.

therift

idk wrote: »

therift wrote: »

idk wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

I agree with the OP.

And originally everything that dropped could be sold - didn’t harm the market then, so it won’t now.

I do not recall a time since the game launched that everything was BoE. Granted, trial gear was not in the game on day one but Ebon armor, worm cult and the stamin a set in that roundup were always BoP. There were other sets in dungeons that were BoP. Trial gear was BoP from the day it was released and vDSA Master weapons were always BoP

Update 12/One Tamriel was the Update that set the standard: All dungeon and trial gear is BoP; overland is BoE. You recall correctly; there was a hodge-podge approach to BoE and BoP.

The Forums had a meltdown with predictions that trading guilds would cease to operate, trials would be inaccessible to players who did not already have the gear, and a mass exodus of frustrated players would kill the game.

As usual, all the dire predictions came to nought. And as usual, they make for delightfully amusing reading in retrospect. I just read one today that ran to several pages after Update 12 hit the PTS. I think it was patch 2.6 or perhaps 2.7.

Doom, gloom, defeat, and despair. It's a complete laugh riot.

I may have this all wrong but I can only guess you are schooling me on some of the history of the game because you think I got things wrong yet nothing you have said has anything to do with how the game was at launch which is the topic of my comment and what I replied to.

No, lol.

I was supplying additional info.

The game at launch had a hodge-podge approach to BoE and BoP compared to One T.

You and I said the same thing.

therift

commodore64 wrote: »

therift wrote: »

commodore64 wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Never gonna happen. Spending time in game and working hard is part of this kind of games objectives. If you get your insta-gratification for everything, you will end up playing for a month and leaving.

I'd argue having to repeat THE SAME DUNGEON over and over is more likely to make me want to quit. There is so much content in the game.

You don't have to do what you're doing. You are choosing to fixate on getting a specific item. Completely unnecessary.

It's not unnecessary if it's the missing component in a build, lots of people have to do it....

This is for example, obviously I'm not actually running CoA every day myself right now, but EVERY player who has played this game has been stuck on the poor end of RNG at some point. I realise many of the forum trolls would have you believe they've never experienced a single bad RNG, or ever lost a BG it seems, but the rest of us certainly have.

I agree with the gist of your point, and I've been there myself.

I realized after running two dungeons for 'must-have' staves to the point where I hated playing the game, it was time to re-think the importance of a particular build. At some point 'grinding' becomes 'fixation'. The former is annoying; the latter is unhealthy.

There is no such thing as 'must-have' items in the game. There are items we might really, really want... but they aren't necessary. Don't let build ideas force you to do things you hate.

Btw, my special unicorn was Sanctuary Resto. 72 runs. Never even used the damn thing.

LioraValkyrie

I would love it if there was a tiny, tiny chance of finding unbound dungeon and trial set items in chests, psijic portals and thieves troves in their respective zones. Tiny, almost astronomical. Aetheric cypher rare. Just imagine messing around and looting a random trove in Wrothgar and finding an unbound Maelstrom's Inferno Staff! That would really be a wow moment!

commodore64

I think we've hit the point where it's the same people repeatedly trying to make the same point, rather than accepting other points of view and allowing the discussion to develop.

It's been interesting I'd ask the mods lock this now, please?

Juhasow

commodore64 wrote: »

I think we've hit the point where it's the same people repeatedly trying to make the same point, rather than accepting other points of view and allowing the discussion to develop.

It's been interesting I'd ask the mods lock this now, please?

I think You've hit the point where it's hard for You to understand that others may have different opinion then Yours and You're just constantly repeating the same thing - "RNG is bad" and You are actually the person having hard time with accepting opinion of others who think differently then You. You are not allowing discussion to develop because Your only answer for every comment and argument is always something along the lines "RNG is bad because it's bad".

Araneae6537

El_Borracho wrote: »

Said it above, but the issue I have with it is the gear in question is usually in a vet-level dungeon or trial, like Relequen, or Lokkes, or Zaan (although I do recognize the golden vendor does sell dungeon gear). So it takes skill to get that gear. If you remove that impediment, you get players who don't have the skill to get the gear, but who (probably) think wearing that gear will transform them into 60K DPS killers overnight. Its not an elitist thing, its a QOL thing for players who run trials.

Again, it BLOWS when you run a vet trial like Sunspire and get anything but the gear you are looking for. But I don't want to go all the way to the other extreme to deal with it.

Finally, I do sympathize with anyone farming for the BSW inferno staff. The drop rate for that thing is criminal.

I generally despise the grind, so content to get gear to do harder content to get the gear you really want.. until the ceiling is raised... (sooo glad that last isn’t a part of ESO) but you make good points. Perhaps a better solution would be to award some kind of tokens that players can use to get the gear they want? That way, you have to complete the content to get the gear, but you’ll definitely get what you want in a given number of runs — no sacrifices to the daedra of RNG needed!

AgaTheGreat

No. That would be unfair to people who actually took time to get their dps high enough to do the content they want to farm the gear from. I spent countless hours in vss / vcr+ / vma for my gear and it would be stupid of the devs to allow a rando from Grathwood have the same items with little to no effort.

Agenericname

JamieAubrey wrote: »

WTB vMA Flame Staff 20 million gold

What trait would you like? At that price I'll also throw in a sword and board and 16 two handers free of charge.

usmguy1234

Yes this. I'll see you my 100+ runs of crypt of hearts to get the lich restro (which dropped for my buddy on his first run btw but was nice enough to trade it to me). This grind literally destroyed pve dungeons for me. I haven't been back since.