No More BOUND Items

Saril_Durzam

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Trials gear used to be bind on equip. In fact, when they made it bind on pickup, they had to introduce undaunted plunder because otherwise running a trial put you in the negative cash flow.

Players shouldn´t have money as one reason to run trials. There are enough reasons already. Actually, on many trials you lose money if you do properly: using expensive pots/food, etc... Which is loggical. I even remember when i played Everquest that you lost experience (and yes, you could even lose levels!) in raids. Trials being end of the PvE game should mean higher sacrifices in all aspects, to reach higher goals (achievements, gear).

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Thorvik_Tyrson

commodore64 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

commodore64 wrote: »

Satanas wrote: »

I understand why you think this is a good idea. But, I'm not agree...

This is all well and good, but completely misses the point of RNG and repeating the same content over and over and not getting the drop you actually want, despite repeatedly acing the content. No?

You must be new to MMOs ...

I started with MUD around 1980 and one or two since. How about you? Why do you think all MMOs should follow a template?

I dont think that he is saying that they should follow a template, I think the point he is trying to make is that they do follow a basic template. If you have played multiple MMO's, you learn what this basic template used by most MMOs for progression is.

Tommy_The_Gun

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

No. That would be unfair to people who actually took time to get their dps high enough to do the content they want to farm the gear from. I spent countless hours in vss / vcr+ / vma for my gear and it would be stupid of the devs to allow a rando from Grathwood have the same items with little to no effort.

Well... I can use the same argument towards housing storage. Why it was not introduced when "I" was playing the game back in 2014 ? "I" had to sold a lot of stuff because of that. "I" lost stuff, because "I" did not have room to keep it, and later on "I" had to re-grind it.

The difference is, that you lose... NOTHING. Nothing. No one is taking away your gear. You lose literally... nothing.
That is like saying that ppl can P2W their achievement points by buying DLCs and farm a lot of easy to get achievement vs some one who got all base game achievements only.

*sigh*

We are not even talking here about difficulty. It is about accessibility. Having more sources to get gear from is ALWAYS good. If you ever grinned a specific gear set or even a single piece of gear, than you know how horrible, horrible experience that was. Do you really want ANY other player to suffer through this ? Personally - I would not wish that even to my worst enemies.

I remember the same arguments people were making when Transmutation system was introduced. A lot of people were raging that "THEY" had grind vMA to get a weapon with specific trait, so it is unfair towards "THEM".

I remember the same arguments when Gold Vendor was introduced. The same rage over, the same arguments.... Unworthy, Unfair, Betrayal, Git GUD...

And how the game is looking now ? How often do you use Gold Vendor ? How often you can conveniently buy PvP gear through a trading guild, so you can use it in your PvE build ?

Always, those people always focus on what is "THEIRS" and dont want "OTHERS" (Or even "outsiders") to have "THEIRS". It is the same when I asked politely in some post earlier:
"Hey, why group finder only supports Dungeons ? Why we dont have Arenas & Trials group finder ? vet DLC dungeons are arguably harder than normal Trials... so why ?"

And as expected, elite, selfish aristocrats started to rage with the same arguments, as they always use: Unworthy, Unfair, Betrayal, Git GUD etc.

If you are one of those who for some reason think that having more sources of gear is bad, than I suggest to watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIWivb-8C1w

Now try, just try (I know it is hard) but just try to think of a bigger picture. If some other way of obtaining any gear will be introduced (lets go far and let's say Trial non-perfected gear):
- Will "I" lose something ?
- Will "I" gain something ?
- How it will affect "ME" ?
- How it will affect "OTHERS" ?
- Will "OTHERS" gain something ?
- Will "OTHERS" lose something ?

If your problem is that "OTHERS" can gain something, while "I" lose nothing, If that is your approach....then you should not be playing MMOS....

AgaTheGreat

You don't get anything you want in life. If you want something you have to earn it, sometimes you won't be able to. Why should it be different? This system works like that to encourage progression. If you want your perfected relequen - join a guild, start by doing all the trials on normal, then join a better guild that actually does progression runs and teaches you things. Don't just skip on the desert... It literally would be a "pay to win" with the exception that you would have to pay gold.

And for the record, yes, I would lose something if there was no bound on pick up. A sense of accomplishment. If every Tom, *** and Harry had access to the top stuff just because they've got money, there would be no point even attempting to farm the best gear because everything would be on the market.

So sue me.

therift

"Now try, just try (I know it is hard) but just try to think of a bigger picture. If some other way of obtaining any gear will be introduced (lets go far and let's say Trial non-perfected gear):
- Will "I" lose something ?
- Will "I" gain something ?
- How it will affect "ME" ?
- How it will affect "OTHERS" ?
- Will "OTHERS" gain something ?
- Will "OTHERS" lose something ?

If your problem is that "OTHERS" can gain something, while "I" lose nothing, If that is your approach....then you should not be playing MMOS...."
-Tommy_The_Gun


Bullcrap.

That's a specious argument if there ever was one.

Your arguments are motivated by greed masked in a false cloak of egalitarianism.

Why?

I lose playing with people who have demonstrated basic competency by playing the content.

I lose when I play with people whom I discover equipped themselves by camping guild traders rather than learning mechanics.

I lose when it becomes virtually impossible to find three bodies to run a dungeon or eleven competent players to run a trial because they would rather buy gear than learn to earn it.

This was the state of the game prior to One Tamriel: Empty Group Finder, no interest in running group content, and sky-high prices charged by the 1 in 1,000 players who chose to farm dungeon/trial sets to sell.

500,000 gold for weapons and jewelry was not uncommon. Most set pieces started at 100k and went up... fast.

Introduction of bound gear for group content vastly improved the quality of life for everyone.

Only the greedy and the lazy support a return to Bind on Equip for group content drops.

El_Borracho

The best gear is locked behind veteran-level content because only people who can complete veteran-level content can properly use that gear. Its not elitist, its the truth.

Having played this game for several years now, specifically the veteran group-level content, I can tell you that I was not ready to use the BiS gear when I first started running trials. You could have handed me the super-meta setup and I still would not crack 40K DPS. Because I had no idea how to keep stacks up, LA weave, or have a smooth rotation. Because I was more worried about learning mechanics and working with a group. All of these things I learned as I progressed, got better, and earned the BiS gear by running the content.

To use a non-ESO example, this would be like someone who is just starting to compete in triathlons thinking that if they buy the top of the line carbon-everything super-awesome road bike they can go out and do an Ironman. Except at least there, their incompetence only hurts them. Like @therift said, in ESO it hurts the other 11 in your group.

Admittedly, that is a little over-dramatic, but I play this game to have fun. Its not fun queuing for a vet trial only to reach the first boss and see 1-3 players start the fight by spamming their executes. Or doing a vet DLC dungeon with a wet noodle DPS you can't kick because he's being carried by someone else in the group. (Yes, I am a member of several guilds, but everyone pugs sometimes.) If the trade-off to avoid that is having to farm gear, I'll take it over the alternative.

Naftal

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

No. That would be unfair to people who actually took time to get their dps high enough to do the content they want to farm the gear from. I spent countless hours in vss / vcr+ / vma for my gear and it would be stupid of the devs to allow a rando from Grathwood have the same items with little to no effort.

- Will "I" lose something ?
- Will "I" gain something ?
- How it will affect "ME" ?
- How it will affect "OTHERS" ?
- Will "OTHERS" gain something ?
- Will "OTHERS" lose something ?

If your problem is that "OTHERS" can gain something, while "I" lose nothing, If that is your approach....then you should not be playing MMOS....

I will lose chances at getting gear I need when I actually play the content when other players who already have what they want want to sell what they got instead of trading it to me. So to keep the same chances at getting things as now, I'd have to also be willing to use much more gold on the gear that I am putting the effort of farming.

Kattatonia

I don't see any reason we couldn't buy "unbinding" stones/items/whatever that unbind items from us to enable us to trade/sell them. I agree there are some things that just shouldn't be able to be traded, but there are other items (like accidentally equipped 'bind on equip' items) where I think it would actually be helpful.

Emma_Overload

therift wrote: »

Bind on Pickup for dungeon gear is a result of player demand.

Yes, you read that correctly.

Prior to One Tamriel, it was very difficult to find players to run dungeons and trials. All but a few preferred to camp out at guild traders waiting for someone else this fetch the gear they wanted. End-game PvErs lobbied ZoS to add incentives to get more players to try the group PvE content.

ZoS responded with Monster Sets, but that alone wasn't enough. With One Tamriel, more than thirty new sets were introduced. Every overland zone, dungeon, and trial had at least one light, medium, and heavy set. All group content sets were reserved as rewards for players who played that content.

And guess what? Hordes of players filled group finder, grouped through guilds, and group through zone chat to give dungeons and trials a try. The result is that nearly every player eventually tries them, and most players learned to master the content at some point.

And many of those players shared their experience with others. Many produced guides and advice. Most players now confidently run that group content which once were ghost towns. We're all better players because of that change from BoE to BoP.

The days of 500k Lich Staves are gone and thankfully so. There is no need to return to the dark days prior to One Tamriel when only a few dared to run a dungeon or trial. Is some gear hard to get? Sure. But ZoS made that easier by revamping the Golden's inventory, adding Transmutation, and now revamping Undaunted chests.

Getting the BoP gear you want is easy-peasy lemon-squeezy, with a handful of exceptions out of the thousands of items now available, and the very last thing ZoS should do is revert backwards to cater to the lazy and the greedy.

That was all great until they started making these horrible DLC dungeons with gimmicky mechanics and pointless one-shots. Your warm and fuzzy narrative leaves out the recent past, in which players flock to the forums to beg for those new dungeons to be REMOVED from the group finder.

All gear should be BoE, in my opinion, at least until they start making the new dungeons fun like the original base game dungeons.

Beardimus

I disagree with this. It's healthy to be pulled into other areas of the game, diversity of game play etc

Plus we have transmute now..
Ans the Golden...
And pledge key changes...

Group content is a 4 x chance or 12 x....

All that's left is vMA and if you cant clear that a few times then the weapon isn't going to make a difference for you really.

I'd prefer more bound, to get folks out and about. I got PUBG if i want instant gratification lol

Emma_Overload

Jayman1000 wrote: »

If there were no BoP or BoE, everything could be traded all the time, the total amount it item gear would just climb and climb and climb until the game would become completely oversaturated with all items. Everyone would be able to get everything for nothing. How fun would that be?

This canard is easily proven to be false. Mother's Sorrow, for example, is not BoP and can be freely purchased in a guild store. And yet the market has not been flooded with cheap items from this set. The proof is in this very forum, where you can find a brand new thread started by some guy who is outraged that MS inferno staves cost 100K gold!

Tommy_The_Gun

El_Borracho wrote: »

The best gear is locked behind veteran-level content because only people who can complete veteran-level content can properly use that gear. Its not elitist, its the truth.

I get what you are saying... but...

What if I can do vMA flawless run with my eyes shut ? Am I good enough to farm trial gear ? If yes, well, there is one problem. I am just 1 guy. Trials are group content, and they dont have group finder support.
So what is really gating my progression here is not to low skill level but rather umm... Socializing ?

To be honest I even started to farm trial gear solo, soloing the first 1 - 2 bosses. I already have some gear... but come on... I am just 1 person, the health bar on those boses goes down SO SLOW...

TelvanniWizard

I just WTB a second Worm's ring. The damm thing doesn't appear!

GreenhaloX

Elwarc wrote: »

Having stuff like vMA weapons is a nice little thing that sets you apart from less skilled players and gives you an advantage cuz you earned it. And it should stay that way

Maybe in dueling or Cyrodiil, but not really for PvE. There are some good 2 x 5-piece sets (plus monster pieces) better than using a Maelstrom weapon. The only build I use Mael bow is with my 2H stam using Sword-singer. Since this has no SS bow, it is better to have a Mael bow. However, with my DW and mag toons, there still better sets combo with 2 x 5 pieces.

Anyways, the reason I would support to get rid of BOP all together is because I hate deconning all the purple pieces I get from running dungeons and trials. There are some good pieces that I can't use, have duplicate, or my teammates didn't want; thus, would be nice to throw those on the traders or give those away to guildmates, instead of having to decon some good pieces.

jecks33

what's the problem of joining a guild? if you don't like talking to people you don't have to do it, you can simply sign up for the activities

victory.immortalb16_ESO

I'm in two minds about this idea. On the one hand, making the pieces etc more available and rewarding those who can do the content with a market for their efforts, rather than piles of decon.

On the other hand, there is the elitist argument that says people should have to complete the content to get the gears, which also has merit (I'm not using elitist in a derogeratory way here), and does serve to split the player base between those that have spent to time learning mechanics and been supported along the way etc with those newer to the game or less socialable or who don't have the time or whatever and will probably never run all the content.

I think Vma equip should be tradable, will reward those who have learnt the rotations and spawn locations etc and doesn't affect the harder trials etc whilst allowing those without the time etc to be able to obtain the weapons from the market. As it's solo content anyway, this won't affect the group forming, etc that many have raised as an issue if all bind on pickup were made tradeable.

As for the rest (and this comes from someone who doesn't do trials, etc mainly due to time constraints) I think it's better we leave the system as it is. Even if that means I'll never see some of that lovely gear, it gives people something to aim for in terms of 'achievement' and learning mechanics and rotation/build perfection.

El_Borracho

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The best gear is locked behind veteran-level content because only people who can complete veteran-level content can properly use that gear. Its not elitist, its the truth.

I get what you are saying... but...

What if I can do vMA flawless run with my eyes shut ? Am I good enough to farm trial gear ? If yes, well, there is one problem. I am just 1 guy. Trials are group content, and they dont have group finder support.
So what is really gating my progression here is not to low skill level but rather umm... Socializing ?

To be honest I even started to farm trial gear solo, soloing the first 1 - 2 bosses. I already have some gear... but come on... I am just 1 person, the health bar on those boses goes down SO SLOW...

No, no, I am cognizant of the downside and irritation of farming. The BSW Inferno Staff. The Siroria Inferno Staff. The Mother's Sorrow Inferno Staff (because I'm not paying 6 figures for anything in this game). And I'm not going to give you the "suck it up, pal" line so many others go with.

Its just I think there needs to be a line drawn at some point. I am currently in Perfected Lokkes farming hell where I run the trial and get everything but what I want in one of the most glitch-ridden trials imaginable. It blows. But I still can't bring myself to support an open market for the gear.

ZOS_WadeS

Greetings! We have close this thread due to it no longer being constructive and to prevent further derailment.