Trader swap issue - EU server

Tandor

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

I just have one question, can I actually play game today without worries that's all my progress will be rolled back tomorrow?

Yes. They're not gonna roll back almost 3 days

They should roll back.

Because even if the majority of Trade GM have been like you and done nothing with the excess gold they got through a bug, the minority that have used that gold have completely destroyed the in-game economy.

Gold tempers are now selling at between 10 and 15 times what there were a week ago.

Even if ZOS recoups all the "free gold" from the system, how do they work out how much more gold to take from the Traders who have used that gold to game the system? They'd need to track EVERY SINGLE transaction from EVeRY GUILD for the last 3 days to figure it all out.

Unless they do that the in-game economy is still going to be way over-heated negatively impacting ALL player - regardless of if they are in a Trade Guild or not - because commodity prices are horrendously over-inflated because of the extra gold.

Taking the excess gold out of the system is NOT enough, you also have to find some way to take back the knock-on effects of the gold that was used by the minority of dishonest Trade Guilds.

If you don't those dishonest guilds have still benefited from their deliberate dishonesty, while everyone else has suffered because of it.

The ONLY solution that deal not only with the "extra gold" but more importantly also deal with the knock-on effects of the "extra gold" is a complete roll-back to a point before that "extra gold" was in the system.

All The Best

What percentage of players outside of the high-value trading guilds buy those sorts of commodities do you reckon? I suggest that most players haven't suffered at all. There does seem to be a mixed view in any event on whether prices have generally risen as astronomically as some claim, and even if they have then taking the excess gold away from those who have it (including the items involved in their transactions since Sunday such as exorbitant guild trader listings resulting from their spending the excess gold) will see normal prices prevail before long. In the meantime, there is no way that everyone else who is not involved in these levels of activity should have all their in-game progress rolled back by several days. The time has passed when that would have been an acceptable way of dealing with the situation. And no, as previously stated, I am not in any guilds so it is not a case of "the only players opposed to a rollback are those who have benefited from this".

Arrodisia

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

I just have one question, can I actually play game today without worries that's all my progress will be rolled back tomorrow?

Yes. They're not gonna roll back almost 3 days

They should roll back.

Because even if the majority of Trade GM have been like you and done nothing with the excess gold they got through a bug, the minority that have used that gold have completely destroyed the in-game economy.

Gold tempers are now selling at between 10 and 15 times what there were a week ago.

Even if ZOS recoups all the "free gold" from the system, how do they work out how much more gold to take from the Traders who have used that gold to game the system? They'd need to track EVERY SINGLE transaction from EVeRY GUILD for the last 3 days to figure it all out.

Unless they do that the in-game economy is still going to be way over-heated negatively impacting ALL player - regardless of if they are in a Trade Guild or not - because commodity prices are horrendously over-inflated because of the extra gold.

Taking the excess gold out of the system is NOT enough, you also have to find some way to take back the knock-on effects of the gold that was used by the minority of dishonest Trade Guilds.

If you don't those dishonest guilds have still benefited from their deliberate dishonesty, while everyone else has suffered because of it.

The ONLY solution that deal not only with the "extra gold" but more importantly also deal with the knock-on effects of the "extra gold" is a complete roll-back to a point before that "extra gold" was in the system.

All The Best

That's not all true. The economy is still stable. Tempers and most other items are still selling at pretty much regular prices. Some players are just spreading fear here in the forums to try to rip people off in game. Most players won't pay those prices anyway. Every thing will be back to normal on Sunday if the server kiosk swaps works out as intended. There is no need to panic yet.

Best Regards

agegarton

If all you’re adding to this thread is a “ban then” comment, can I just point out that you’re a moron and it’s time for bed.

wavingblue

Bethesda could offload some of the load to AWS instances.. or all of it for that matter.

Sandman929

agegarton wrote: »

If all you’re adding to this thread is a “ban then” comment, can I just point out that you’re a moron and it’s time for bed.

I suggested a fingertips alternative

Mathius_Mordred

Waynerx8 wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

The people you are suggesting they ban are also the people who spend thousands of £/Euros each year on this game, who build communities, websites, work really hard to encourage and help new players. Sure, go ahead ban them, watch the entire community crumble, then who will you sell your mats to?

Who will ZOS turn to when subs dramatically reduce? We got about 10 million back and it's still in our guild bank, I'm hoping that we get to keep it of course but if we can't so be it, but if bans are handed out to people I know and care about then I'm gone from this game, I was here in closed beta but if they start punishing people because of a ***-up of their own making then this will be the last straw as far as I'm concerned, the 300 people in my guild will have to find another guild, well those who actually continue playing will, the rest, well there's a lot of games out there desperate for cash and players.

You forgot the selfish, thieving sh--s bit.

Can I just say something here, who made them start a guild, I'm sure some do it to feel important, to play boss, as they can't do it in the real world, sick of hearing we give up our time blah blah, GM's choose to waste too much time on a game then spout stuff like this, just go solo and someone else will come along, honestly some GM's make out they are like CEO's in this game.


Solo players spend money on subs and clown store amounting to thousands, you are not anymore special, you made a choice, don't like don't do it, stop making out you are higher up in a GAME.


ALL GM's found guilty of using the excess gold to buy up wax, tempers knowing it was a bug should have their account banned, and should never be trusted again, there are a lot of GM's that did not touch the gold as they were aware of the error, good for them, the others just show their true colours, PROPER p3nises.

Idiot. What makes you think that people who run guilds and large organisations only do it in a game because they can't do it in real life? What a naive view of the world you have, total BS and completely uninformed, how old are you, 12? In fact people who show leadership qualities in a large MMO are very often those who show the same kind of qualities in real life whilst most people are just sheep, content to follow. The responsibility of providing a welcoming environment to hundreds or thousands of people is not something to be taken lightly and not something to be derided by the likes of you. Jealousy and sour grapes will get you nothing in life, you may want to remember that.

StabbityDoom

silvereyes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The cause was a high volume of add-on requests, game server requests, and multi-bid process requests all hitting at once.

So basically, a high volume of every kind of request, but one of those categories was new this patch, and the others were not.

Let me get this straight:

• You knew your servers were already operating close to the red line last patch, so much so that you already had to throttle some traffic (guild history API).
• You knew there were pages and pages of PTS feedback suggesting that the max bids be reduced to 2-3. Many wanted the entire system scrapped.
• You knew that there was lots of PTS feedback saying multi-bidding was too rushed, needed load testing, and would have unintended consequences.
• Your rework of API calls in Update 23 changed nothing about guild history API requests. All it did was enable servers to push new history data once per minute. (protip: real-time data does not equal historical data)
• Your "temporary" throttles on guild history remained the same in U23.
• Now, rather than admitting you were wrong and reverting multi-bidding - the real culprit for the increased traffic - you plan to further throttle more traffic (i.e. "safeguards") and possibly upend trade guild officers' schedules.

I see no acknowledgement of a core issue here. Blaming the problem on "more volume" - despite eight months of increasing volume - demonstrates to me a technology company that is unwilling or incapable of making the changes required to scale.

Arrodisia

SammiSakura wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Waynerx8 wrote: »

Can I just say something here, who made them start a guild, I'm sure some do it to feel important, to play boss, as they can't do it in the real world, sick of hearing we give up our time blah blah, GM's choose to waste too much time on a game then spout stuff like this, just go solo and someone else will come along, honestly some GM's make out they are like CEO's in this game.

Solo players spend money on subs and clown store amounting to thousands, you are not anymore special, you made a choice, don't like don't do it, stop making out you are higher up in a GAME.

Oh myy

Why so negative?

There are always bad apples but it's never effective to paint with such a wide brush.

In my experience, many of the best guilds are run by those who hold jobs that require them to be highly organized, helpful, engaged in helping others succeed, etc. Things I've learned as a trade guild GM have actually helped me at my RL job as a non-CEO (lol) at a large media company...and vice versa! Actually, I owe my entire career path (going back 30+ years), to helping others "online".

In my experience, NONE of the GMs I know who run trade guilds do it for the status lol. Most of us do it because we get satisfaction out of helping others enjoy a game such as this.

Just as they consult expert players in other areas of the game for feedback, I don't think it's too much for experienced Trade Guild GMs to be consulted on things like Multi-bidding, bid times, etc. That's not pretending to be better than others, that's trying to help the game evolve in the right direction, imho.

Why isn't there a rep for Guilds/Trade Guilds? (or, if such a person exists, I've never heard of them).

-H

Yeah I also don't know anyone who does it for status. Also, not all of us start guilds. I inherited mine from a friend who no longer plays.
Not sure where this guy has got his very warped view of GMs.

Exactly, some people just want to make sure players have a fun place to play together. They like seeing players happy. It takes a lot of time and gold from a GM to organize, personally recruit, and run a trade guild, and taxes just don't cover the expenses of running them.

Best wishes

reoskit

I’d QFT you @silvereyes, but it’s a long (and completely correct) post.

Amen to everything you said.

Bosov

hiyde wrote: »

Waynerx8 wrote: »

Can I just say something here, who made them start a guild, I'm sure some do it to feel important, to play boss, as they can't do it in the real world, sick of hearing we give up our time blah blah, GM's choose to waste too much time on a game then spout stuff like this, just go solo and someone else will come along, honestly some GM's make out they are like CEO's in this game.

Solo players spend money on subs and clown store amounting to thousands, you are not anymore special, you made a choice, don't like don't do it, stop making out you are higher up in a GAME.

Oh myy

Why so negative?

There are always bad apples but it's never effective to paint with such a wide brush.

In my experience, many of the best guilds are run by those who hold jobs that require them to be highly organized, helpful, engaged in helping others succeed, etc. Things I've learned as a trade guild GM have actually helped me at my RL job as a non-CEO (lol) at a large media company...and vice versa! Actually, I owe my entire career path (going back 30+ years), to helping others "online".

In my experience, NONE of the GMs I know who run trade guilds do it for the status lol. Most of us do it because we get satisfaction out of helping others enjoy a game such as this.

Just as they consult expert players in other areas of the game for feedback, I don't think it's too much for experienced Trade Guild GMs to be consulted on things like Multi-bidding, bid times, etc. That's not pretending to be better than others, that's trying to help the game evolve in the right direction, imho.

Why isn't there a rep for Guilds/Trade Guilds? (or, if such a person exists, I've never heard of them).

-H

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

The trade system in eso is bad enough as it is. Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

wavingblue

silvereyes wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The cause was a high volume of add-on requests, game server requests, and multi-bid process requests all hitting at once.

So basically, a high volume of every kind of request, but one of those categories was new this patch, and the others were not.

Let me get this straight:

• You knew your servers were already operating close to the red line last patch, so much so that you already had to throttle some traffic (guild history API).
• You knew there were pages and pages of PTS feedback suggesting that the max bids be reduced to 2-3. Many wanted the entire system scrapped.
• You knew that there was lots of PTS feedback saying multi-bidding was too rushed, needed load testing, and would have unintended consequences.
• Your rework of API calls in Update 23 changed nothing about guild history API requests. All it did was enable servers to push new history data once per minute. (protip: real-time data does not equal historical data)
• Your "temporary" throttles on guild history remained the same in U23.
• Now, rather than admitting you were wrong and reverting multi-bidding - the real culprit for the increased traffic - you plan to further throttle more traffic (i.e. "safeguards") and possibly upend trade guild officers' schedules.

I see no acknowledgement of a core issue here. Blaming the problem on "more volume" - despite eight months of increasing volume - demonstrates to me a technology company that is unwilling or incapable of making the changes required to scale.

All the above.. and you forgot something.. blaming add-ons for the ills, twice now.

Arrodisia

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Waynerx8 wrote: »

Can I just say something here, who made them start a guild, I'm sure some do it to feel important, to play boss, as they can't do it in the real world, sick of hearing we give up our time blah blah, GM's choose to waste too much time on a game then spout stuff like this, just go solo and someone else will come along, honestly some GM's make out they are like CEO's in this game.

Solo players spend money on subs and clown store amounting to thousands, you are not anymore special, you made a choice, don't like don't do it, stop making out you are higher up in a GAME.

Oh myy

Why so negative?

There are always bad apples but it's never effective to paint with such a wide brush.

In my experience, many of the best guilds are run by those who hold jobs that require them to be highly organized, helpful, engaged in helping others succeed, etc. Things I've learned as a trade guild GM have actually helped me at my RL job as a non-CEO (lol) at a large media company...and vice versa! Actually, I owe my entire career path (going back 30+ years), to helping others "online".

In my experience, NONE of the GMs I know who run trade guilds do it for the status lol. Most of us do it because we get satisfaction out of helping others enjoy a game such as this.

Just as they consult expert players in other areas of the game for feedback, I don't think it's too much for experienced Trade Guild GMs to be consulted on things like Multi-bidding, bid times, etc. That's not pretending to be better than others, that's trying to help the game evolve in the right direction, imho.

Why isn't there a rep for Guilds/Trade Guilds? (or, if such a person exists, I've never heard of them).

-H

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

The trade system in eso is bad enough as it is. Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

They'd add the same types of concerns they added before this went live. If they had listened then to the reps and GMs on PTS testing the patch, this more than likely wouldn't have happened.
.
Lower taxes? Many GM's are already struggling to bid competitively with the taxes being so low.

We should be trying to suggest solutions to stop this from happening again. Like getting better servers and moving up the recoding.

hiyde

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

reoskit

Bosov wrote: »

The trade system in eso is bad enough as it is. Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

So, you think ZOS is up to designing and coding an auction house that functions well under load, eh.

Mmmk.

All you AH devotees seem to forget that that system will suffer performance issue, just like the current system, just like the rest of the game. Your suggestion is not a solution, it’s a diversion.

VaranisArano

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Waynerx8 wrote: »

Can I just say something here, who made them start a guild, I'm sure some do it to feel important, to play boss, as they can't do it in the real world, sick of hearing we give up our time blah blah, GM's choose to waste too much time on a game then spout stuff like this, just go solo and someone else will come along, honestly some GM's make out they are like CEO's in this game.

Solo players spend money on subs and clown store amounting to thousands, you are not anymore special, you made a choice, don't like don't do it, stop making out you are higher up in a GAME.

Oh myy

Why so negative?

There are always bad apples but it's never effective to paint with such a wide brush.

In my experience, many of the best guilds are run by those who hold jobs that require them to be highly organized, helpful, engaged in helping others succeed, etc. Things I've learned as a trade guild GM have actually helped me at my RL job as a non-CEO (lol) at a large media company...and vice versa! Actually, I owe my entire career path (going back 30+ years), to helping others "online".

In my experience, NONE of the GMs I know who run trade guilds do it for the status lol. Most of us do it because we get satisfaction out of helping others enjoy a game such as this.

Just as they consult expert players in other areas of the game for feedback, I don't think it's too much for experienced Trade Guild GMs to be consulted on things like Multi-bidding, bid times, etc. That's not pretending to be better than others, that's trying to help the game evolve in the right direction, imho.

Why isn't there a rep for Guilds/Trade Guilds? (or, if such a person exists, I've never heard of them).

-H

The trade system in eso is bad enough as it is. Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

Wait, you think that one big auction house is going to make the system work better?

You know its going to be coded by the exact same people who brought you the current system, yeah?

StabbityDoom

reoskit wrote: »

I’d QFT you @silvereyes, but it’s a long (and completely correct) post.

Amen to everything you said.

This AND I'd also like to suggest the biggest problem involves guild finder, as that's when the majority of NA problems started.

silvereyes

wavingblue wrote: »

All the above.. and you forgot something.. blaming add-ons for the ills, twice now.

I didn't really forget it, although I did notice how they listed addon traffic first....

Gina didn't say it was addon traffic's fault. She simply said that of all the things taking up resources, it was the least impactful thing for them to cut.

It's very telling, though, that they decided to target addon traffic and player schedules instead of multi-bidding; that they consider it less impactful than reverting a brand new feature that nobody will miss.

What it tells me is that they they built something, they don't want to let go of it, and they are willing to throw away things that the community has clearly communicated that they value more in order to keep it.

This further reinforces that multi-bidding was never about player quality-of-life for us.

Bosov

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

Mathius_Mordred

In the meantime my guild history is active and showing everything, so I don't know when they are supposed to be switching it off.

Moonsorrow

All gm & officers of those trade guilds who did get duplicate gold and spent it to buy markets half empty out of all valuable materials, consumables and gear to launder it and to later up the prices to make even more gold should get a permanent BAN.

No need to explain, they ruined the whole economy. Exploited error in code = TOS violation. One that affects our whole EU server and makes finding even some simple materials really hard. Playing has become frustrating.

Been really bad experience the last days, lots of toxicity because of it. Need strict punishments so people remember next time and really think before exploiting.

I know there are mostly honest trade guild leaders, but.. even reading this thread, couple clear cases can be seen who are defending the ones who went to spent the exploited gold and say there should not be punishments. Tells a lot. Scared because might end up without their account.

We need permanent bans for those who exploited the duplicate gold. No other choice. I wish ZOS will be strict on this issue. We the majority of players who have to "live" with this economy will support heavy punishments so let that Volendrung hit hard on all exploiters since they made our daily playing a lot less fun.

Bosov

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Waynerx8 wrote: »

Can I just say something here, who made them start a guild, I'm sure some do it to feel important, to play boss, as they can't do it in the real world, sick of hearing we give up our time blah blah, GM's choose to waste too much time on a game then spout stuff like this, just go solo and someone else will come along, honestly some GM's make out they are like CEO's in this game.

Solo players spend money on subs and clown store amounting to thousands, you are not anymore special, you made a choice, don't like don't do it, stop making out you are higher up in a GAME.

Oh myy

Why so negative?

There are always bad apples but it's never effective to paint with such a wide brush.

In my experience, many of the best guilds are run by those who hold jobs that require them to be highly organized, helpful, engaged in helping others succeed, etc. Things I've learned as a trade guild GM have actually helped me at my RL job as a non-CEO (lol) at a large media company...and vice versa! Actually, I owe my entire career path (going back 30+ years), to helping others "online".

In my experience, NONE of the GMs I know who run trade guilds do it for the status lol. Most of us do it because we get satisfaction out of helping others enjoy a game such as this.

Just as they consult expert players in other areas of the game for feedback, I don't think it's too much for experienced Trade Guild GMs to be consulted on things like Multi-bidding, bid times, etc. That's not pretending to be better than others, that's trying to help the game evolve in the right direction, imho.

Why isn't there a rep for Guilds/Trade Guilds? (or, if such a person exists, I've never heard of them).

-H

The trade system in eso is bad enough as it is. Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

Wait, you think that one big auction house is going to make the system work better?

You know its going to be coded by the exact same people who brought you the current system, yeah?

No obviously not. However i have always found the whole guild system with hiring a trader for a week or claiming a keep in Cyro a bit weird. Just a central point for all trade would have been my preference from the start of the game. Too late now and this system does work (most of the time.. not this week) fine. I just dont like it.

A global market system would prevent bugs with hiring traders though.. just need to make sure listing and buying works well. Also you wouldnt have to use a guild slot for one or multiple trade guilds anymore

Varana

They said a while ago that they can turn it off and on at will now, so I assume that that has happened - they turned guild history (or parts of it) on again, until further non-notice.

StabbityDoom

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

StabbityDoom

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

In the meantime my guild history is active and showing everything, so I don't know when they are supposed to be switching it off.

While you are on, if you are on pc, it only shows while you are on. Addons won't go further back, however, for data while you are offline.

Bosov

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

So the big guild leader input was "change swaptimes for a more convient time for us so we can find a replacement spot?"

Yeah not sure if you really need a rep for that.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

JHartEllis wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

multi-bid process requests all hitting at once

This load would be partially reduced if the number of the bids were dropped from 10, right? There are a lot of other reasons 10 is already probably too many, so I hope part of the solution is to drop this by a few.

Oh, and I wanted to put in a big thank you for ensuring NA wasn't impacted--I imagine that was a scramble to prevent this issue from being twice as big.

Pretty sure the fact that NA wasn't affected was pure luck, not because of a fix.

wavingblue

silvereyes wrote: »

wavingblue wrote: »

All the above.. and you forgot something.. blaming add-ons for the ills, twice now.

I didn't really forget it, although I did notice how they listed addon traffic first....

Gina didn't say it was addon traffic's fault. She simply said that of all the things taking up resources, it was the least impactful thing for them to cut.

It's very telling, though, that they decided to target addon traffic and player schedules instead of multi-bidding; that they consider it less impactful than reverting a brand new feature that nobody will miss.

What it tells me is that they they built something, they don't want to let go of it, and they are willing to throw away things that the community has clearly communicated that they value more in order to keep it.

This further reinforces that multi-bidding was never about player quality-of-life for us.

She doesn't have to say it directly, its very much implied as you pointed it was the first. Add-on traffic that didn't suddenly explode during the EU trader flip... add-on traffic that didn't explode from the night before, or the night before that.

And all of what you pointed out is true, and points to a very toxic company internally and externally. Internally they seem to be a disorganized mess at best. Examples.. events that have 24 hour timers and instead of tying them to the regular 0200 reset like the rest of the dailies they are at a completely different time or 24 hours after turn in. Why not run that daily at the same time as the rest of them? Or why Elseweyr WB's spawn timers are completely different from the rest of the WB's in the game.. why have a despawn timer, none of the rest of the WB's have one.. why these? Why are devs posting about guild data on non-affiliated websites yet they don't post on these forums? Influencers which they have paid to fly to Bethesda, gave them tour and everything said FIX THIS ***. Completely ignored. Important players at these conventions have said... fix your ***, ignored.

Then externally you have this latest and albeit worst ignoring of the PTS in recent memory. They completely charged into this knowing there could be issues but giving zero ***. Numerous people said..hey, this ain't right. If this doesn't work its a Sunday.. no one will be around, have you tested this, any test of this? And now that there are serous issues in EU land (who already are an abused group) no action taken to fix nor any real communication as to what the actual problem was or fix for next weeks flip. But we'll sure as *** turn off add-ons because you know, problems. They remind me of our current political climate in the US, get us outraged about things they knew we would be outraged about while behind the scenes do underhanded things.

It just paints toxicity throughout the entire chain of command.

StabbityDoom

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

So the big guild leader input was "change swaptimes for a more convient time for us so we can find a replacement spot?"

Yeah not sure if you really need a rep for that.

That was -one- reason off the top of my head, and a rather important one, too.

Bosov

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

So the big guild leader input was "change swaptimes for a more convient time for us so we can find a replacement spot?"

Yeah not sure if you really need a rep for that.

That was -one- reason off the top of my head, and a rather important one, too.

I guess it is important for you. You could also just bid more and win the bid or stay online until an inconvient moment if you really care that much.

And like people always say about nightcapping in Cyrodill "one person their downtime is another person their prime time".

Maybe the classrep who makes PvP builds without impen can take the trade classrep duties as his side gig?