Ritual of Retribution is doing as much damage as Elemental Blockade and also healing? huh?

ecru

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

Seraphayel

This is one of the skills that’s overloaded with stuff and should be adjusted asap. No reason for the damage morph to heal at all as that was changed for Nightblade‘s Path, too.

leepalmer95

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

I mean ignoring the 20% dmg on blockable, ones 2.6k and one is 4.2k magicka.

CP5

Templars weren't mandatory healers so zos fixed that?

susmitds

@ZOS_Gilliam Can we revert the nerf to Refreshing Path now?

Minno

Tooltip warriors strike again lol.

ecru

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

I mean ignoring the 20% dmg on blockable, ones 2.6k and one is 4.2k magicka.

I mean, I'm fine with some of my abilities costing 60% more magicka as long as they do as much as 3-4 different abilities at once.

People need to imagine a few of these stacked in a BG. Is there anything that would provide a team with an advantage like this? Constant outgoing damage equal to two ele blockades, constant healing equal to a permanent vigor on everyone inside of it, a permanent snare, and a synergy that removes all debuffs?

WrathOfInnos

You’re right that this is not balanced with Refreshing Path. Refreshing should be changed to be in line with Ritual of Retribution. It’s not like Magblades are at risk of being overpowered.

As far as intent, Brian Wheeler specifically mentioned that Ritual’s healing was buffed to help fill the void left by the springs change. It is probably needed, and unlikely to be reverted.

Delparis

One more proof that ZoS "combat system" team has no clue about what they are doing.

redspecter23

This is definitely overtuned. I suppose if it costs enough, I could live with that. However, there is no reason that Templars get this while the alternatives the other classes provide are laughable by comparison.

Yes, this should probably be brought down a bit, but if the reasoning for some of the healing nerfs (grand healing specifically) is due to buffing up abilities like this, they need to look at ALL the classes and bring their class utility/heal/synergy abilities up to par with this one, wherever it ends up being.

Minno

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You’re right that this is not balanced with Refreshing Path. Refreshing should be changed to be in line with Ritual of Retribution. It’s not like Magblades are at risk of being overpowered.

As far as intent, Brian Wheeler specifically mentioned that Ritual’s healing was buffed to help fill the void left by the springs change. It is probably needed, and unlikely to be reverted.

Should also be noted blockade is every second. His tooltip will be 2500 off blockade and doesn't account for the fact it will ignore 10% armor plus apply enchants/poisons. And don't forget 20% extra DMG on burning targets. So it's like 3kx8= 24000.

And it costs dirt. Rit cost was increased as well. Look at that 4k cost and DMG every 2s lol. 2400x6 = 14000.

"OvERlOadED".

jadarock

I'm convinced they know nothing of their own game. Buff nerf buff nerf with little to no understanding of the gameplay implications.
gg zos

redspecter23

Hold up. Did I read that right? This thing scales off your highest combat stats? I can have a raid with 1 tank and 11 stam templars stacking this, with vigor and the new circle of protection and sure, lets give them all bogdan as well. If it's not a one shot, I don't see how it's killing that group. Maybe one of them puts resto on the back bar just to cast combat prayer every 8 seconds. Every dps is a healer that can dual wield daggers. Yay! We were worried there wouldn't be enough synergies floating around.

md3788

Blockade:
217 Magicka/S
1287 DPS
20% additional damage to burning targets
Has the ability to proc burning status as well as enchants
Increases the chance to apply burning status (Elemental force)
Ignores 10% enemy resistance (Penetrating magic)
Restores 3600 magicka if an enemy dies (Destruction expert)
18 meter range

Ritual:
348 Magicka/S
1242 DPS
1155 HPS
12 meter radius
Purify Synergy

If you're talking about DPS, I think Blockade is clearly better.

susmitds

md3788 wrote: »

Blockade:
217 Magicka/S
1287 DPS
20% additional damage to burning targets
Has the ability to proc burning status as well as enchants
Increases the chance to apply burning status (Elemental force)
Ignores 10% enemy resistance (Penetrating magic)
Restores 3600 magicka if an enemy dies (Destruction expert)
18 meter range

Ritual:
348 Magicka/S
1242 DPS
12 meter radius

Which one is better?

Ritual. Even range wise, 3.14*12^2 is bigger than 18*12

redspecter23

md3788 wrote: »

Blockade:
217 Magicka/S
1287 DPS
20% additional damage to burning targets
Has the ability to proc burning status as well as enchants
Increases the chance to apply burning status (Elemental force)
Ignores 10% enemy resistance (Penetrating magic)
Restores 3600 magicka if an enemy dies (Destruction expert)
18 meter range

Ritual:
348 Magicka/S
1242 DPS
12 meter radius

Which one is better?

Ritual. You forgot it is also healing while doing damage. provides a synergy, has a massive area of effect compared to blockade, can be used by magicka and stamina equally well and cleanses on cast.

Even if you're just talking about dps, you might be able to make an argument that blockade is better, but there is no reason you can't use both. No reason to just use blockade... unless you're not a templar.

Drdeath20

Minno wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You’re right that this is not balanced with Refreshing Path. Refreshing should be changed to be in line with Ritual of Retribution. It’s not like Magblades are at risk of being overpowered.

As far as intent, Brian Wheeler specifically mentioned that Ritual’s healing was buffed to help fill the void left by the springs change. It is probably needed, and unlikely to be reverted.

Should also be noted blockade is every second. His tooltip will be 2500 off blockade and doesn't account for the fact it will ignore 10% armor plus apply enchants/poisons. And don't forget 20% extra DMG on burning targets. So it's like 3kx8= 24000.

And it costs dirt. Rit cost was increased as well. Look at that 4k cost and DMG every 2s lol. 2400x6 = 14000.

"OvERlOadED".

Just this!

md3788

redspecter23 wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Blockade:
217 Magicka/S
1287 DPS
20% additional damage to burning targets
Has the ability to proc burning status as well as enchants
Increases the chance to apply burning status (Elemental force)
Ignores 10% enemy resistance (Penetrating magic)
Restores 3600 magicka if an enemy dies (Destruction expert)
18 meter range

Ritual:
348 Magicka/S
1242 DPS
12 meter radius

Which one is better?

Ritual. You forgot it is also healing while doing damage. provides a synergy, has a massive area of effect compared to blockade, can be used by magicka and stamina equally well and cleanses on cast.

Even if you're just talking about dps, you might be able to make an argument that blockade is better, but there is no reason you can't use both. No reason to just use blockade... unless you're not a templar.

You guys are quick. I was editing the post to include the synergy and heals and put it in a DPS perspective.

redspecter23

md3788 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Blockade:
217 Magicka/S
1287 DPS
20% additional damage to burning targets
Has the ability to proc burning status as well as enchants
Increases the chance to apply burning status (Elemental force)
Ignores 10% enemy resistance (Penetrating magic)
Restores 3600 magicka if an enemy dies (Destruction expert)
18 meter range

Ritual:
348 Magicka/S
1242 DPS
12 meter radius

Which one is better?

Ritual. You forgot it is also healing while doing damage. provides a synergy, has a massive area of effect compared to blockade, can be used by magicka and stamina equally well and cleanses on cast.

Even if you're just talking about dps, you might be able to make an argument that blockade is better, but there is no reason you can't use both. No reason to just use blockade... unless you're not a templar.

You guys are quick. I was editing the post to include the synergy and heals and put it in a DPS perspective.

Fair enough. I was looking at it from a healing point of view primarily and comparing it to grand healing. For that comparison, it's light years ahead. You could remove the damage component completely and it still puts grand healing to shame. If this is the compensation for grand healing nerfs, I want something comparable on my dk, nightblade, sorc and necromancer. They are left in the dust.

md3788

redspecter23 wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Blockade:
217 Magicka/S
1287 DPS
20% additional damage to burning targets
Has the ability to proc burning status as well as enchants
Increases the chance to apply burning status (Elemental force)
Ignores 10% enemy resistance (Penetrating magic)
Restores 3600 magicka if an enemy dies (Destruction expert)
18 meter range

Ritual:
348 Magicka/S
1242 DPS
12 meter radius

Which one is better?

Ritual. You forgot it is also healing while doing damage. provides a synergy, has a massive area of effect compared to blockade, can be used by magicka and stamina equally well and cleanses on cast.

Even if you're just talking about dps, you might be able to make an argument that blockade is better, but there is no reason you can't use both. No reason to just use blockade... unless you're not a templar.

While you can use both, I think it will be tough on sustain. Templars also already have a packed bar so you'd have to drop a DoT skill or shield.

ecru

md3788 wrote: »

Blockade:
217 Magicka/S
1287 DPS
20% additional damage to burning targets
Has the ability to proc burning status as well as enchants
Increases the chance to apply burning status (Elemental force)
Ignores 10% enemy resistance (Penetrating magic)
Restores 3600 magicka if an enemy dies (Destruction expert)
18 meter range

Ritual:
348 Magicka/S
1242 DPS
1155 HPS
12 meter radius
Purify Synergy

If you're talking about DPS, I think Blockade is clearly better.

Blockade is barely better with a flame staff, yes. Without a flame staff (lightning or frost blockade) and burning up, blockade will do about equal damage to Ritual of Retribution, and more when the burning debuff is on the target, but still over a much much larger area. That said, it does enough damage that I'd imagine magplars might include it in their rotation now if they can afford the cost.

Minno wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You’re right that this is not balanced with Refreshing Path. Refreshing should be changed to be in line with Ritual of Retribution. It’s not like Magblades are at risk of being overpowered.

As far as intent, Brian Wheeler specifically mentioned that Ritual’s healing was buffed to help fill the void left by the springs change. It is probably needed, and unlikely to be reverted.

Should also be noted blockade is every second. His tooltip will be 2500 off blockade and doesn't account for the fact it will ignore 10% armor plus apply enchants/poisons. And don't forget 20% extra DMG on burning targets. So it's like 3kx8= 24000.

And it costs dirt. Rit cost was increased as well. Look at that 4k cost and DMG every 2s lol. 2400x6 = 14000.

"OvERlOadED".

uh no, they're equal.



You may want to read my original post again. Ritual of Retribution does more things than just damage. A lot more. It also covers about 4-5 times the area of blockade. I'm not suggesting it's overloaded because it just does damage, I'm suggesting it's overloaded because it does damage equal to a destro staff ground aoe, heals equal to a resto staff ability ground aoe, snares everyone inside of the giant circle, provides minor mending, removes debuffs off of the caster, and provides your group with a synergy (providing resources back) that has a substantial heal and removes all debuffs. Hope that helps.

md3788

ecru wrote: »

That said, it does enough damage that I'd imagine magplars might include it in their rotation now if they can afford the cost.

That's the problem - it's expensive. Also - What would you drop for it. Your shield? Vamps Bane/Reflective light? Solar Barrage? I can probably do without the shield in most content, but the other's are too valuable to drop IMO.

Drdeath20

ecru wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Blockade:
217 Magicka/S
1287 DPS
20% additional damage to burning targets
Has the ability to proc burning status as well as enchants
Increases the chance to apply burning status (Elemental force)
Ignores 10% enemy resistance (Penetrating magic)
Restores 3600 magicka if an enemy dies (Destruction expert)
18 meter range

Ritual:
348 Magicka/S
1242 DPS
1155 HPS
12 meter radius
Purify Synergy

If you're talking about DPS, I think Blockade is clearly better.

Blockade is barely better with a flame staff, yes. Without a flame staff (lightning or frost blockade) and burning up, blockade will do about equal damage to Ritual of Retribution, and more when the burning debuff is on the target, but still over a much much larger area. That said, it does enough damage that I'd imagine magplars might include it in their rotation now if they can afford the cost.

Minno wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You’re right that this is not balanced with Refreshing Path. Refreshing should be changed to be in line with Ritual of Retribution. It’s not like Magblades are at risk of being overpowered.

As far as intent, Brian Wheeler specifically mentioned that Ritual’s healing was buffed to help fill the void left by the springs change. It is probably needed, and unlikely to be reverted.

Should also be noted blockade is every second. His tooltip will be 2500 off blockade and doesn't account for the fact it will ignore 10% armor plus apply enchants/poisons. And don't forget 20% extra DMG on burning targets. So it's like 3kx8= 24000.

And it costs dirt. Rit cost was increased as well. Look at that 4k cost and DMG every 2s lol. 2400x6 = 14000.

"OvERlOadED".

You may want to read my original post again. Ritual of Retribution does more things than just damage. A lot more. It also covers about 4-5 times the area of blockade. I'm not suggesting it's overloaded because it just does damage, I'm suggesting it's overloaded because it does damage equal to a destro staff ground aoe, heals equal to a resto staff ability ground aoe, snares everyone inside of the giant circle, provides minor mending, removes debuffs off of the caster, and provides your group with a synergy (providing resources back) that has a substantial heal and removes all debuffs. Hope that helps.

Nerf cloak!

ecru

md3788 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

That said, it does enough damage that I'd imagine magplars might include it in their rotation now if they can afford the cost.

That's the problem - it's expensive. Also - What would you drop for it. Your shield? Vamps Bane/Reflective light? Solar Barrage? I can probably do without the shield in most content, but the other's are too valuable to drop IMO.

If you got 7 or 8 templars in your raid, all with ritual of retribution down the entire time, you wouldn't really need healers or shields at all New meta is probably just going to be all templars stacking rituals for heals and using shards on each other for synergies. I guess a few of them could slot warhorn or purge or something. Can't wait tbh.

Drdeath20

Please revert any templar changes. We dont want them to have 1 or 2 powerful class skills (just like every other class have).

Would you rather have cloak or ritual of retribution?

md3788

ecru wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

That said, it does enough damage that I'd imagine magplars might include it in their rotation now if they can afford the cost.

That's the problem - it's expensive. Also - What would you drop for it. Your shield? Vamps Bane/Reflective light? Solar Barrage? I can probably do without the shield in most content, but the other's are too valuable to drop IMO.

If you got 7 or 8 templars in your raid, all with ritual of retribution down the entire time, you wouldn't really need healers or shields at all New meta is probably just going to be all templars stacking rituals for heals and using shards on each other for synergies. I guess a few of them could slot warhorn or purge or something. Can't wait tbh.

As a templar main, I'm ok with it.

Drdeath20

Pve damage dealers

Ele weapons, jesus beam, solar barrage, inner light, blazing shards
Wall of ele, rune, shield, flex, channeled acceleration

Strong skill but it might make my bar on the flex spot

Sanguinor2

ecru wrote: »

If you got 7 or 8 templars in your raid, all with ritual of retribution down the entire time, you wouldn't really need healers or shields at all New meta is probably just going to be all templars stacking rituals for heals and using shards on each other for synergies. I guess a few of them could slot warhorn or purge or something. Can't wait tbh.

And they can even run master architect/war machine with aedric spear ult and can drop Novas in high pressure situations, now we just Need to find a spot for the token sorc and warden for passives.

redspecter23

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Pve damage dealers

Ele weapons, jesus beam, solar barrage, inner light, blazing shards
Wall of ele, rune, shield, flex, channeled acceleration

Strong skill but it might make my bar on the flex spot

When slotting this skill on multiple templars can potentially mean absolutely no need for healers, it starts to become an overall dps gain for the group, even if you have to drop something that is slightly higher dps to slot it. I can't see giving up the huge group synergy this provides for just a touch more dps, but I suppose it depends on the content being played. For 99% of the playerbase who don't do elite vet trials, this is a must slot ability I think.

x48rph

Well, with this and the changes to Eclipse, it's pretty clear I need to roll another templar for more than just healing now

Drdeath20

redspecter23 wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Pve damage dealers

Ele weapons, jesus beam, solar barrage, inner light, blazing shards
Wall of ele, rune, shield, flex, channeled acceleration

Strong skill but it might make my bar on the flex spot

When slotting this skill on multiple templars can potentially mean absolutely no need for healers, it starts to become an overall dps gain for the group, even if you have to drop something that is slightly higher dps to slot it. I can't see giving up the huge group synergy this provides for just a touch more dps, but I suppose it depends on the content being played. For 99% of the playerbase who don't do elite vet trials, this is a must slot ability I think.

Except ,with the changes to orbs and healing springs, you will still need a healer for main tank and a healer just for orbs and shards.