So ESO has finally become pay to win.
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TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭I'm getting tired of the "pay to win" preachers and the prophets of ESO apocalypse... oh wait, the doomsayers may have something nowadays.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just want to remind people that things can be a terrible idea whether they are P2W or not.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.5 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Amazing how many IDIOTS use p2w wrong. O2w is the act if obtaining a boost that in NO WAY can be obtained with in game means. Such as some Korean mmos that sell costumes that give stat boosts. As for dlcs,locked classes ect. every mmo dies it. Hell singleplayer games do it, get over it.
Amazing how many idiots think time is worth nothing. IF you need months of grind for something but someone can just buy it how this is not p2w ? Because while you still grinding other player just accumulating gold , sets , making first clears , whatever.5 -
Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭You do need to have the line completed already on a character before you can buy it, just like the skyshards. Seems more like a pay to not have to repeat content.
Then why not give it just for free? This is just one step away from intentionally creating lazy grindy content with the intention to bring people to pay for it.
Look at the psijic skill line for example. Its a totaly boring grind that took the devs about a morning to create. But hey no problem, you dont like it? Just buy it! Freemium is greeting!5 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There we have it folks. Judging by the new PTS patch note, you can now buy the fully leveled Undaunted skill line. Are we finally seeing the decline of ESO?
Here we go again... You really NEED to understand the differences between pay to win and pay for convenience...Edited by redlink1979 on July 8, 2019 9:36AM"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2525 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
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maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alright, I'm pro crown store. Why?
Granting those skill lines account wide, would be suicidal to any immersion, RP, progress etc. and would further disable everyone from completing content more than a single time. Talk about empty zones!
Why would all my chars have 10 in DB, yet they never set foot at any assassin organization or killing anyone for Sithis? Or TG? Or any other skill line. All are Psijics? Come on! It would be devastating if this was account wide. All characters maxed even though they just emerged from the unknown!
This way, the crown store way, it's completely optional - you can ignore the store altogether and NEVER miss the content. All of your characters can progress normally (as should IMO) and as desired (not all skill trees are needed, far from it). IF, however, you are too lazy or want to make it quicker AND you have completed the required content before, you have to pay.
This is NO pay to win, this is NO pay for convenience. This is pay for an extra choice. In the same time, leaving all other players to level up normally and do their game.1 -
wolf486✭✭✭✭Amazing how many IDIOTS use p2w wrong. O2w is the act if obtaining a boost that in NO WAY can be obtained with in game means. Such as some Korean mmos that sell costumes that give stat boosts. As for dlcs,locked classes ect. every mmo dies it. Hell singleplayer games do it, get over it.
As someone who is playing a Korean MMO right now, EVERYTHING can be purchased with in game money, on a (proper) marketplace and most things you unlock with one character remain unlocked for all your alts (without paying). ESO still locks things behind real world money.
Whether the term is p2w, p4c or a paywall, ESO is very much guilty of having it. And just 'cos it does, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy the game still. Like I said, I'm playing a Korean MMO currently and I'd say it's the best MMO I've played and am having a blast with it despite people on their forums whining about p2w all the time.PC/NAMoved onto BDO and GW2 Skyrim, ATS/ETS2, ACNH and the overall goodness of single player games
RIP to the following:
(DC) Tharbûrz gro-Glumgrog - Orsimer -Stamden (lvl 50)
(AD) Vukz - Bosmer - Stamblade (lvl 50)2 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »I didn’t see anywhere in the patch notes that I’d be able to buy gear and skills not accessible any other way giving me an advantage over non-paying players. Did I miss something? I’d love to buy me a maelstrom bow for some crowns, but even thats accessible from base game. There must be some hidden super weapon available for crowns only I missed...
I guess you missed Summerset patch notes (among others before and after it, of course; but to date Summerset is the high-water mark packed with pay-to-win). By the way, Maelstrom is not in base game.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws1 -
CyberSkooma✭✭✭✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »I'm actually happy to see that PVE players will only have to level one character in Assault and Support. Big thing is what will it cost? Hmmmm...
Leveling Assault for Caltrops/etc. is so ridiculously easy (and fast) with BGs that it can be done in just a couple hours, if you do well enough and win matches.
I've done it twice now (StamDK and Stamcro) in lieu of stepping in to Cyrodiil and it's absolutely astonishing how quick it goes by.
Of all the "gotta do it again" skill lines, I mind the Alliance War ones the least with the advent of BGs. (And winning them, that is. Losing still makes it take a little time, but not nearly as much as Cyrodiil.)
You've done it twice. Try doing it 15 times and then come back to us.I play this game a little bit I guess0 -
DBZVelena✭✭✭✭✭This should be only allowed on characters that are lvl 50+. It would make lowbie PVP disgusting and ruin the PVP experience of first time players.
You mean the first time pvp-ers that get challenge ambushed just after character creation. The ones that haven't found the auto decline option yet?
Please, lowbie pvp is already a cluster beep.What are Natch Potes? Can you eat those?
I believe in Genie-Gina.0 -
BrooksP✭✭✭redlink1979 wrote: »
The only difference is scale and impact, paying for convenience is inherently pay to win as gaining said convenience gives an advantage over someone who doesn't. How much of an advantage or what impact it has can be subjective, but irrelevant. It's like saying theft isn't a crime and only murder is because it is worse, and theft is just aggressive borrowing. The severity of murder is greater then that of theft, but that doesn't make theft not a crime. Trying to reword it doesn't change that either.
ESO has been p2w since the revamp, simply because they don't sell "NoobStomper 9000" doesn't make it not p2w, it just means it isn't as bad as the games that do. Personally I don't care if they sell the skill lines, or if they did sell the "NoobStomper 9000". What annoys me is how people are unwilling to call a spade a spade and continue to try to push the line in regards MTs and defend it to the point of Stockholm syndrome. "It isn't pay to win it is convenience" or "lootboxes are fine, they are just cosmetics" which has caused the MMO genre or really gaming in general to become a cesspool of egregious monetization and *** business practices that it is today. P2W use to simply mean selling items that had a ingame effect(so cosmetics were the only non-p2w and even then there was a debate), now the game sells unlimited mat storage, classes, races, skill lines, buffs, boosters, training, storage, hell you can even buy gold and people still try and shout "it isn't p2w".
Lastly if the skill lines are that bad to level, that people are willing to pay not to do it again, maybe they should look into improving that system instead of just selling it. But I guess that would be too much of an inconvenience.
/rantEdited by BrooksP on July 8, 2019 10:51AM5 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Again, and with ever-decreasing patience, what exactly is ‘winning’ in this game?1 -
casualgamer666Soul Shriventhis is not p2w but it is heading in a bad direction that i don't like to see imo1 -
CASBrown1996Soul ShrivenPay to Win and Pay for convenience is 2 different things and I see way to many people mixing the 2, buying a skill line won't help you to play this game any better, whether you doing PvE or PvP, this is simply a matter of time saving for people who have played this game for long enough and are sick and tired of doing the same stuff over and over again when trying to just do what they would prefer, it is not pay to win if the skill line is still obtainable by everyone, which it is, some can now simply level it instantly when making a new toon, which thank the Divines for cause I have to make another mag toon and look at another lorebook, I will probably die OmegaLULCASBrown1996-PvP, PvE, Social.
I am a casual, but also an analyst, so lets read some Natch Potes.
Characters:
DC-DragonKnight-Stamina-Lord of the Dragons
DC-Templar-Stamina-Yavanna of Rivendell
EP-Sorcerer-Magicka-Pull the lever Kronk
DC-Dragonknight-Magicka-Baby Balrog
DC-NightBlade-Magicka-Mistress-Shadow
DC-Templar-Magicka-Gandalf the White
EP-NightBlade-Stamina-Legolas Thrandullion
_______________________________________________________________________________
PvP Top Achievements = Former Emperor
PvE Top Achievements = Flawless Conqueror(vMA), Dro'mathra Destroyer(vMoL)1 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The only difference is scale and impact, paying for convenience is inherently pay to win as gaining said convenience gives an advantage over someone who doesn't.
Again, you need to unlock it in at least one char. You are paying to win what exactly? Time. So, it's convenience...
I'm sorry if I started playing before you did, I shouldn't have any advantage because I started playing the game 4 years ago and I have 8 chars and you started playing last month and you have 1 char........Edited by redlink1979 on July 8, 2019 11:46AM"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2525 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
1 -
The_Lex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭One things for sure, there's going to be a lot of level 10 players in lowbie pvp/BGs using Dawnbreaker. Lol0 -
Surak73✭✭✭✭✭This has nothing to do with pay to win.
On the other side, when you have to - better, when you WANT to - pay for not playing a game, this is not exactly what I call a sign of a game in a healthy state...2 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tell me actually. Does anybody was stupid that to purchase skyshards? I mean for real...
i would have never ever consider it. neither the skilllines. except the psijic. but nothing else.Edited by WeerW3ir on July 8, 2019 12:09PM2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Who are the 41 clowns who agreed with this guy? Who actually wants to level Undaunted over and over for each alt?
I did not agree with the OP, but I have no problem leveling skill lines on each character (whether that character needs them or not).The Moot Councillor1 -
BrooksP✭✭✭redlink1979 wrote: »The only difference is scale and impact, paying for convenience is inherently pay to win as gaining said convenience gives an advantage over someone who doesn't.
Again, you need to unlock it in at least one char. You are paying to win what exactly? Time. So, it's convenience...
I'm sorry if I started playing before you did, I shouldn't have any advantage because I started playing the game 4 years ago and I have 8 chars and you started playing last month and you have 1 char........
Player A and player B have the same playtime, number of characters, skill lines trained, skill level, etc.
Tank Spot is going to open up soon in their guild for trials, neither have the right tank so both reroll.
Player A pays to transfer skill lines.
Player B can't.
Player B spends days regrinding.
Player A spends same time gearing up.
Player B is now finished grinding and is now gearing up.
Player A already got the spot as he met the requirements days ago.
Player A paid for something that had a in-game impact, and while it may have been convenient for him, it put him at a greater advantage over Player B who couldn't. If this was a single player game your argument would hold water, but it is a MMO, a convenience for one is an advantage over another, Even if it is not to the scale of special armor or weapons as an advantage, it is still a advantage nonetheless.
I don't understand your second point so can't really comment outside of money seems to be more of a deciding factor then simply how long one has played.
PS. Yes the example is crap, but I'm tired so deal with it.1 -
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭How is it pay to win? You need to max out a skill line at least once to be able to purchase it. Seriously, how is NOT having to find a million lorebooks over and over again after you’ve done it once a problem? I could understand the claims of “P2W” if you could purchase the skill lines without ever earning them legitimately, but that’s not what this is.
The number of people who either don't read the entirety of the description or just have poor reading comprehension is staggering!
This is NOT for new players it is for CURRENT players who would like to level alts. You still have to level the skills also.1 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aren’t they nerfing all the skills you can buy? That’s pay to lose."Get off my lawn!"1 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OMG people paying for ingame items has been going on for years now. Although these aren't items I don't see how it hurts me if someone else pays for something for their character. It makes ZOS a profit which allows them to hire decent programmers. At least they are making it so you have to have acquired these things on a previous character.1 -
wolf486✭✭✭✭Veinblood1965 wrote: »It makes ZOS a profit which allows them to hire decent programmers.
With all that crown store money spent by whales and ESO+ money, it's just lined the higher ups pockets. Things have only gotten worse over the last year as they monetize more things. If anything, the money is being used elsewhere (ie Fallout 76 or their trash mobile game).Edited by wolf486 on July 8, 2019 2:28PMPC/NAMoved onto BDO and GW2 Skyrim, ATS/ETS2, ACNH and the overall goodness of single player games
RIP to the following:
(DC) Tharbûrz gro-Glumgrog - Orsimer -Stamden (lvl 50)
(AD) Vukz - Bosmer - Stamblade (lvl 50)3
