So ESO has finally become pay to win.
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Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Master_Kas wrote: »So ?
Grinding undaunted is boring and this was very appreciated.
Not everyone wants to spend time doing boring dungeons over and over on alts.
If you want to re-grind undaunted on every character you make, be my guest and do so.
Doesn't mean there shouldn't be another option for people who hates it
You have an option. Dont do it if you hate it.5 -
Jimmyk987_ESOSoul Shriven
Low level PVP places an effective time limit on how long someone can PVP in that campaign. This time limit is shortened by doing content that earns XP. Unlocking the skills that will be sold in he crown store earns XP and shortens that time limit.
True, but somehow I don't think under 50 PvP is the bar for "winning" ESO.
Place two players into under 50 PVP at level 15. Now give one player access to powerful PVP skills such as DB, Meteor, Race against time, New Circle of Prot, New Entropy, and so on.Confirmed that having the undaunted skill line makes you "win" ESO.
Are you telling me that the player who has all of the extra skills didn’t pay for power? Not to even mention undaunted.
It is a part of the game that many players who wish to participate PVP will try. Further discouraging new players from testing the waters of the PVP community.
What you define as “Winning” is irrelevant. This change will have no direct effect to me, but that isn’t the point. The point is to try and maintain a healthy community. Instead of dismissing and down playing an issue, I suggest that you try to promote a health community. If you think selling someone power to beat up on lowbies is healthy, then me typing this is a waste of time.
You have to have complete the content to unlock the purchase. Which means, that person has put in the work to have that access. It changes absolutely nothing but the time put into having it on another character.
Pls show me how it is physically possible to obtain all these things on a low level character.
That isn't the point though. Why would have a new player be on even footing with someone that has been playing much longer anyway? Do the content, get the access. If said new player wants to use something from the Fighters Guild skill line then they should, you guessed it, do the content. So, not sure a new player and low-level PVP is a sound argument against this.
New players will be at a disadvantage in under 50 PVP when they encounter older players, but why sell power to widen that gap? Why allow these older players a larger time limit for their lowbie crushing?
Again, getting crushed and learning why you're getting crushed is a big part of being new to PVP period not just low-level PVP. "Oh, that ability hurt. What was that?" *Looks at death recap* "Oh, comes from that skill line. I should go see what offers me as well."
Changes. Nothing.
Thank you for showing you have no understanding of lowbie PVP.
On live if a friend or someone I meet wants to try PVP I can tell them to try out under 50 PVP. I can craft them some decent impen gear and they have an effectively fair playing field with the others in the campaign. Sure they will lack experience, but this will be the only chance they have to be near gear parity until they reach “end game.” They can get their foot in the door and determine if PVP interest them and not feel like every player has some significantly more powerful gear.
With this addition to the crown store these players will not have an area that they can experience PVP with some parity to other players.
You physically can’t obtain all these skills at low level. This is the definition of selling power and it will directly influence an area of the game that players compete against each other. Worse still it will hurt the growth of a portion of the community that has been struggling since launch.
I'll let you in a on secret. In PVP, the objective to battle against other players. A lot of times in PVP, you get your HP sent to 0 then have to respawn to jump back into the fray. It's pretty cool, and good players tend to learn from their mistakes and get better at it. They utilize what is available to them and play content to unlock more power and progress. Example: A skill line you might not have yet, but you can attain, BY DOING.THE.CONTENT.
As a new player (Played in the closed beta but quit on release just came back to try for the new expansion) and someone in most games who tends to side more on the pvp side of games, I came back tried the new expansion and won't say that I was impressed but enjoyed the pvp enough to stick around.
I will tell you from personal experience there is a difference between a new player getting *** on and going "Oh ok they did this" and throwing your hands in the air and going "Welp not a damn thing I could do there" When I started I would not do terrible but again I have a rather large general knowledge on how PVP and battlegrounds work but would lose to some players because they would utilize things such as bash, dodge roll and block when I would just sort of ignore them not realizing the significance they played.
When I would lose to someone like that I would go "Oh well damn I I didn't know you could do that against that ability" such as dodge rolling some ults and such and then try and put it into practice more and more. HOWEVER when I would go into some battlegrounds and go against say a group of 2-3 sorcs who are all q'd together wearing crafted sets that make them so they can legit 1v8 without fear of dying not because they are more "Skilled" but simply because they would hit you with a move like crystal fragment that would hit for 8k+ and two shot you. That is when PvP would just be frustrating and unfun because you learn nothing from that.
This change if able to be used will simply exasperate that issue even more where players who simply enjoy the PvP side of the game could possibly just end up not playing to avoid the BS.
Now onto my overall two cents on the change, I have only lvled the mages guild and fighters guild once, as I said new player. Even outside of PvP though this can be a very dangerous path to take. I do not know the full history of the "Pay to skip content" in this game but I do know they have some things such as sky shards, the werewolf and vamp that you can by to completely bypass having to explore or interact with other players. This is a precedent done by many games before that people said they wanted or thought was a great idea at the time that then lead to worse and worse changes to continue making things more "convenient" Take a game such as WoW where things like a LFG / LFR tool was begged for early on in the game along with making content more solo friendly and today those are now some of the hottest issues on whats wrong with the game.
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Who are the 41 clowns who agreed with this guy? Who actually wants to level Undaunted over and over for each alt?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE7 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭There we have it folks. Judging by the new PTS patch note, you can now buy the fully leveled Undaunted skill line. Are we finally seeing the decline of ESO?
ESO is already big fat pay to win. No MMOs will lock behind race or class behind a paywall. Game balance will be made accordingly game-breaking nerfs will be made each patch. Don't forget the craft bag. Play warden or necro or get lost. ZOs idea is to sell necro and warden at all cost even all 100 percent of the cyrodil population is warden and necro.4 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I knew this game would go south after they started selling skyshards and by the looks of it they sell pretty well.
Psijic Skill line soon? Maybe start selling crafting traits, also sell some sets from trials, I mean its all just pay for convenience right?
This game is already way too alt friendly for it to start selling "skips" its not like you need half a year to get up undaunted, just grab a few friends and you can get it in a day or two.
I'm trying really hard to understand your point of view.... I'm just failing. Or maybe I just can't get my head so far up my ***
I swear people like you have a problem with everything.Edited by Nyladreas on July 7, 2019 11:09PM1 -
wolf486✭✭✭✭Rather than making this a monetization issue, they should have made it simply an account wide accomplishment.
No, they should have resisted the pressure and told players that if they wanted a character to have certain achievements or skills they would have to play the game the way it was intended in order to achieve them.
I use to believe that as well until I started playing another MMO that unlocks certain things once one character has unlocked them.Priyasekarssk wrote: »There we have it folks. Judging by the new PTS patch note, you can now buy the fully leveled Undaunted skill line. Are we finally seeing the decline of ESO?
ESO is already big fat pay to win. No MMOs will lock behind race or class behind a paywall. Game balance will be made accordingly game-breaking nerfs will be made each patch. Don't forget the craft bag. Play warden or necro or get lost. ZOs idea is to sell necro and warden at all cost even all 100 percent of the cyrodil population is warden and necro.
Don't forget Maeltstrom items are nearly always recommended in builds, which you need paid DLC to get.PC/NAMoved onto BDO and GW2 Skyrim, ATS/ETS2, ACNH and the overall goodness of single player games
RIP to the following:
(DC) Tharbûrz gro-Glumgrog - Orsimer -Stamden (lvl 50)
(AD) Vukz - Bosmer - Stamblade (lvl 50)0 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭I don't see how it's pay to win. It may boost the self-esteem of some idiots who don't know game mechanics and toon building, but such idiots still need to master the deployment of those skills in order to win. And those who master them already and have the money to buy skill lines, I think they earned it.1 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is anyone forcing you to pay money? No. It's totally optional.
Are they taking this from the game? No.
Will you be more powerful than the rest? No.
Will I be buying this? Hell no.
And I hated undaunted passive. But I dislike "buying" a skill from the crown store.
But this is no different than e.g. buying a vampire/ww bite from the store. Couldn't care less for it myself.1 -
shaielzafine✭✭✭✭✭Massacre_Wurm wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »So ?
Grinding undaunted is boring and this was very appreciated.
Not everyone wants to spend time doing boring dungeons over and over on alts.
If you want to re-grind undaunted on every character you make, be my guest and do so.
Doesn't mean there shouldn't be another option for people who hates it
You have an option. Dont do it if you hate it.
I won't repeat the grind because I hate it but there's new options, bwahaha. With the new patch there's the option to buy skyshards for points and all the skill lines / passives my main toon already has.0 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thank god for this. So tired of grinding for the same dam things I've done already.1 -
seratin✭✭✭I wouldn't say it's pay to win, but it does mean there's no incentive to make some of these quest lines (psijic I'm looking at you) less boring if they can just sell you a way to skip it. My biggest concern is that they'll intentionally design longer more tedious grinds in order to sell more skips.1
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Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Damn I can pay to unlock thing I can grind in 3 day ? Such p2w zo$ how dare you ![ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
efster✭✭✭✭✭It's only pay to win in the sense that people who have the money to spend on these skill lines will be able to make endgame-ready new characters faster than people who don't have the money. So people with $$ can bring a new toon to a raid or PVP sooner. Whether or not that's "winning" is subjective, especially since it requires that these same players already have endgame-ready characters fully levelled (so, you know, they can always bring their old character instead).AD is the best looking faction. I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.1 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only way i can find it semi acceptable is this.
The skill line could be purchased only if you have already completed it on any one of your characters.
If we just let any idiot buy them how is it not p2w
To be honest any idea of paying for skills, skill point, skill lines should be shoved in a dumpster . Are you people seriously ok for eso to go down that path, it will never stop . Next thing we have will be oh pay for capped CP, pay for a lv 50 character, pay for that , pay for the other thing.
The laziness of some people is shocking to me. A far better solution is to just make guild trees account wide with no payment involved. This game will die if the devs keep listening to idiots.
You do need to have them on a character0 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amazing how many IDIOTS use p2w wrong. p2w is the act if obtaining a boost that in NO WAY can be obtained with in game means. Such as some Korean mmos that sell costumes that give stat boosts. As for dlcs,locked classes ect. every mmo dies it. Hell singleplayer games do it, get over it.Edited by jircris11 on July 18, 2019 9:57PMIGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer1 -
pod88kk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Amazing how many IDIOTS use p2w wrong. O2w is the act if obtaining a boost that in NO WAY can be obtained with in game means. Such as some Korean mmos that sell costumes that give stat boosts. As for dlcs,locked classes ect. every mmo dies it. Hell singleplayer games do it, get over it.
It's P2W not o2w....... Who's the idiot now?
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Numerikuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭There we have it folks. Judging by the new PTS patch note, you can now buy the fully leveled Undaunted skill line. Are we finally seeing the decline of ESO?
It's been in a decline for quite some time now. Decisions like this only prove it. Every single MMO that has done something like this is on the dying path. Seen it so, many, times.2 -
Attackfrog✭✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »I'm actually happy to see that PVE players will only have to level one character in Assault and Support. Big thing is what will it cost? Hmmmm...
I was very happy to see this too. Then again, other mmos just make this kind of thing "account bound". Not sure if that would work for this game but it's a step in the right direction."You can have fun or you can have safety, but you can't have them both"
-A ten-year-old0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I didn’t see anywhere in the patch notes that I’d be able to buy gear and skills not accessible any other way giving me an advantage over non-paying players. Did I miss something? I’d love to buy me a maelstrom bow for some crowns, but even thats accessible from base game. There must be some hidden super weapon available for crowns only I missed...1 -
SirAxen✭✭✭✭✭Jimmyk987_ESO wrote: »
Low level PVP places an effective time limit on how long someone can PVP in that campaign. This time limit is shortened by doing content that earns XP. Unlocking the skills that will be sold in he crown store earns XP and shortens that time limit.
True, but somehow I don't think under 50 PvP is the bar for "winning" ESO.
Place two players into under 50 PVP at level 15. Now give one player access to powerful PVP skills such as DB, Meteor, Race against time, New Circle of Prot, New Entropy, and so on.Confirmed that having the undaunted skill line makes you "win" ESO.
Are you telling me that the player who has all of the extra skills didn’t pay for power? Not to even mention undaunted.
It is a part of the game that many players who wish to participate PVP will try. Further discouraging new players from testing the waters of the PVP community.
What you define as “Winning” is irrelevant. This change will have no direct effect to me, but that isn’t the point. The point is to try and maintain a healthy community. Instead of dismissing and down playing an issue, I suggest that you try to promote a health community. If you think selling someone power to beat up on lowbies is healthy, then me typing this is a waste of time.
You have to have complete the content to unlock the purchase. Which means, that person has put in the work to have that access. It changes absolutely nothing but the time put into having it on another character.
Pls show me how it is physically possible to obtain all these things on a low level character.
That isn't the point though. Why would have a new player be on even footing with someone that has been playing much longer anyway? Do the content, get the access. If said new player wants to use something from the Fighters Guild skill line then they should, you guessed it, do the content. So, not sure a new player and low-level PVP is a sound argument against this.
New players will be at a disadvantage in under 50 PVP when they encounter older players, but why sell power to widen that gap? Why allow these older players a larger time limit for their lowbie crushing?
Again, getting crushed and learning why you're getting crushed is a big part of being new to PVP period not just low-level PVP. "Oh, that ability hurt. What was that?" *Looks at death recap* "Oh, comes from that skill line. I should go see what offers me as well."
Changes. Nothing.
Thank you for showing you have no understanding of lowbie PVP.
On live if a friend or someone I meet wants to try PVP I can tell them to try out under 50 PVP. I can craft them some decent impen gear and they have an effectively fair playing field with the others in the campaign. Sure they will lack experience, but this will be the only chance they have to be near gear parity until they reach “end game.” They can get their foot in the door and determine if PVP interest them and not feel like every player has some significantly more powerful gear.
With this addition to the crown store these players will not have an area that they can experience PVP with some parity to other players.
You physically can’t obtain all these skills at low level. This is the definition of selling power and it will directly influence an area of the game that players compete against each other. Worse still it will hurt the growth of a portion of the community that has been struggling since launch.
I'll let you in a on secret. In PVP, the objective to battle against other players. A lot of times in PVP, you get your HP sent to 0 then have to respawn to jump back into the fray. It's pretty cool, and good players tend to learn from their mistakes and get better at it. They utilize what is available to them and play content to unlock more power and progress. Example: A skill line you might not have yet, but you can attain, BY DOING.THE.CONTENT.
As a new player (Played in the closed beta but quit on release just came back to try for the new expansion) and someone in most games who tends to side more on the pvp side of games, I came back tried the new expansion and won't say that I was impressed but enjoyed the pvp enough to stick around.
I will tell you from personal experience there is a difference between a new player getting *** on and going "Oh ok they did this" and throwing your hands in the air and going "Welp not a damn thing I could do there" When I started I would not do terrible but again I have a rather large general knowledge on how PVP and battlegrounds work but would lose to some players because they would utilize things such as bash, dodge roll and block when I would just sort of ignore them not realizing the significance they played.
When I would lose to someone like that I would go "Oh well damn I I didn't know you could do that against that ability" such as dodge rolling some ults and such and then try and put it into practice more and more. HOWEVER when I would go into some battlegrounds and go against say a group of 2-3 sorcs who are all q'd together wearing crafted sets that make them so they can legit 1v8 without fear of dying not because they are more "Skilled" but simply because they would hit you with a move like crystal fragment that would hit for 8k+ and two shot you. That is when PvP would just be frustrating and unfun because you learn nothing from that.
This change if able to be used will simply exasperate that issue even more where players who simply enjoy the PvP side of the game could possibly just end up not playing to avoid the BS.
Now onto my overall two cents on the change, I have only lvled the mages guild and fighters guild once, as I said new player. Even outside of PvP though this can be a very dangerous path to take. I do not know the full history of the "Pay to skip content" in this game but I do know they have some things such as sky shards, the werewolf and vamp that you can by to completely bypass having to explore or interact with other players. This is a precedent done by many games before that people said they wanted or thought was a great idea at the time that then lead to worse and worse changes to continue making things more "convenient" Take a game such as WoW where things like a LFG / LFR tool was begged for early on in the game along with making content more solo friendly and today those are now some of the hottest issues on whats wrong with the game.
Then that person honestly shouldn't be playing ESO to begin with. ESO isn't a PVP only game, it offers tons and tons of content. Great stories, group activities, festivals, events, trading, crafting etc etc etc. You get it. If someone want's a PVP only experience, there are tons of games out there that do PVP way better than ESO does and ever will. If someone isn't willing to do the content to get something they need to improve, that's on them not the game.3
