So ESO has finally become pay to win.
-
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭It boggles the mind that so many "players" are happy to fork over cash rather than just play the freakin game. It's not convenience, it's laziness.7 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There we have it folks. Judging by the new PTS patch note, you can now buy the fully leveled Undaunted skill line. Are we finally seeing the decline of ESO?
Currently, the following skill lines are planned to be available with Update 23:- Alliance War (Assault and Support)
- Dark Brotherhood
- Thieves Guild
- Fighters Guild
- Legerdemain
- Mages Guild
- Undaunted
- Note: The Psijic Order, Soul Magic, Vampire and Werewolf skill lines will become available in a future update.
Not only Undaunted.
1 -
Fang_of_Lorkhaj✭✭✭✭There we have it folks. Judging by the new PTS patch note, you can now buy the fully leveled Undaunted skill line. Are we finally seeing the decline of ESO?
Its skills. Not gear that give you extra stats that can only be obtained through the market store. Shut up and find a more accurate way to B****. For *** sake. Give an inch for someone to B**** and they'll take it like candy.2 -
onemoredragon✭✭✭Love these comments about 'it's just pay for convenience'. So apparently leveling is an inconvenience, and we can pay to make it feel better, great. Just selling a ready-to-go levelled character template would be less dusgusting that slowly milking money out of players for separate skill lines and skyshards. Leave the character progress to players and not their wallets please.PC EU @OneMoreDragon
Rakshasi Raijina, khajiit sorceror, adventurer and crafter
Keel-Neesha, argonian dragonknight tank
Asharlys, orc templar tank
Wanheda Praimfaya, nord necromancer tank
Alessia Whitegold, redguard templar 2h/bow DD
Mitsuro Naztharune, khajiit dragonknight dw/bow DD
Viannereth, bosmer warden bow/bow DD
Moraelyn of Ra'athim, dunmer necromancer magicka DD
So long as the dragonfires shall burn, to you, and to all generations, I swear that my Heart’s blood shall hold fast the Gates of Oblivion.10 -
Hotel6✭✭✭Everyone is talking about but i couldnt find any of the patchnotes. Is it offical or a leak? can someone share the link please?1
-
angeleda✭✭✭✭Yes, buying skill lines or skillpoints will definitely make your DPS parse about 20k higher or help u finally 1vX in pvp!
...........good one2 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭You aren''t buying power that cannot be obtained any other way.
It takes 1 day if people can be bothered to farm up undaunted by doing all veteran content + hm dungeons. You dont need to buy it thus its not p2w.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.2 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Low level PVP places an effective time limit on how long someone can PVP in that campaign. This time limit is shortened by doing content that earns XP. Unlocking the skills that will be sold in he crown store earns XP and shortens that time limit.
True, but somehow I don't think under 50 PvP is the bar for "winning" ESO.
Place two players into under 50 PVP at level 15. Now give one player access to powerful PVP skills such as DB, Meteor, Race against time, New Circle of Prot, New Entropy, and so on.Confirmed that having the undaunted skill line makes you "win" ESO.
Are you telling me that the player who has all of the extra skills didn’t pay for power? Not to even mention undaunted.
It is a part of the game that many players who wish to participate PVP will try. Further discouraging new players from testing the waters of the PVP community.
What you define as “Winning” is irrelevant. This change will have no direct effect to me, but that isn’t the point. The point is to try and maintain a healthy community. Instead of dismissing and down playing an issue, I suggest that you try to promote a health community. If you think selling someone power to beat up on lowbies is healthy, then me typing this is a waste of time.
You have to have complete the content to unlock the purchase. Which means, that person has put in the work to have that access. It changes absolutely nothing but the time put into having it on another character.
Pls show me how it is physically possible to obtain all these things on a low level character.
That isn't the point though. Why would have a new player be on even footing with someone that has been playing much longer anyway? Do the content, get the access. If said new player wants to use something from the Fighters Guild skill line then they should, you guessed it, do the content. So, not sure a new player and low-level PVP is a sound argument against this.
New players will be at a disadvantage in under 50 PVP when they encounter older players, but why sell power to widen that gap? Why allow these older players a larger time limit for their lowbie crushing?
New players should be at a disadvantage...no? Why should brand new players be on equal footing with players who've been playing this game for years?
They will be at a disadvantage in terms of experience and knowledge. They don't need to be at a disadvantage because of level 10 Dawnbreakers and Meteors and Undaunted buffs that are otherwise impossible to achieve.
New players need a place to go to try out pvp before they get steamrolled by min maxxed groups. While there are a few twinks that seal club in lowbie pvp, for the most part, it works.
Locking the purchase of combat-effective skill lines -- Undaunted, Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Psijic -- to level 50+ toons will avoid this problem.2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Game performance sucks, but people keep bending over, here take our money for something they are too lazy to do.
12 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Confirmed that having the undaunted skill line makes you "win" ESO.
Well, if you listen to the people who insist they must level it on every character, it obviously is.
They claim that if they meet a player that has full undaunted and they don't, they will be at a huge disadvantage.The Moot Councillor1 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭As long as we have to unlock it by leveling it first, I'm fine with it. I'm not seeing P2W here, because players still have access to level it to the same exact level on their alts without paying real money. In the end, everyone has the same benefits from it with and without money.
Now, more importantly, they could fix the group finder and game performance. That would be the real shocker, worthy of a thread for me.Edited by Arrodisia on July 7, 2019 4:23PM2 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Low level PVP places an effective time limit on how long someone can PVP in that campaign. This time limit is shortened by doing content that earns XP. Unlocking the skills that will be sold in he crown store earns XP and shortens that time limit.
True, but somehow I don't think under 50 PvP is the bar for "winning" ESO.
Place two players into under 50 PVP at level 15. Now give one player access to powerful PVP skills such as DB, Meteor, Race against time, New Circle of Prot, New Entropy, and so on.Confirmed that having the undaunted skill line makes you "win" ESO.
Are you telling me that the player who has all of the extra skills didn’t pay for power? Not to even mention undaunted.
It is a part of the game that many players who wish to participate PVP will try. Further discouraging new players from testing the waters of the PVP community.
What you define as “Winning” is irrelevant. This change will have no direct effect to me, but that isn’t the point. The point is to try and maintain a healthy community. Instead of dismissing and down playing an issue, I suggest that you try to promote a health community. If you think selling someone power to beat up on lowbies is healthy, then me typing this is a waste of time.
You have to have complete the content to unlock the purchase. Which means, that person has put in the work to have that access. It changes absolutely nothing but the time put into having it on another character.
Pls show me how it is physically possible to obtain all these things on a low level character.
That isn't the point though. Why would have a new player be on even footing with someone that has been playing much longer anyway? Do the content, get the access. If said new player wants to use something from the Fighters Guild skill line then they should, you guessed it, do the content. So, not sure a new player and low-level PVP is a sound argument against this.
New players will be at a disadvantage in under 50 PVP when they encounter older players, but why sell power to widen that gap? Why allow these older players a larger time limit for their lowbie crushing?
New players should be at a disadvantage...no? Why should brand new players be on equal footing with players who've been playing this game for years?
They will be at a disadvantage in terms of experience and knowledge. They don't need to be at a disadvantage because of level 10 Dawnbreakers and Meteors and Undaunted buffs that are otherwise impossible to achieve.
New players need a place to go to try out pvp before they get steamrolled by min maxxed groups. While there are a few twinks that seal club in lowbie pvp, for the most part, it works.
Locking the purchase of combat-effective skill lines -- Undaunted, Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Psijic -- to level 50+ toons will avoid this problem.
In a sense. But noobs do not become automagically competitive upon hitting level 50; it is totally arbitrary point at which we simply stop acknowledging they are not, and start pretending they are, even though their access to skills and gear remains limited for a long time after that.
Now of course the game already screws over with these noobs, but players paying to unlock skills on alts, such as their fresh necros (actually this may be one of the reasons for this change; somebody may have concluded that having to unlock everything all over again acts as deterrent against playing/buying a new class), will cause population of new chars in vet campaigns to shrink and exacerbate the problem.
The same applies to alts of veteran players who will not pay; they too will see fewer new chars and will be more often at disadvantage, remarkably even against alts of equally veteran players who will have paid.Edited by JamilaRaj on July 7, 2019 5:14PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There we have it folks. Judging by the new PTS patch note, you can now buy the fully leveled Undaunted skill line. Are we finally seeing the decline of ESO?
Until we see the official patch notes these Chicken Little stores are just a weak attempt to create drama. Obviously so based on the heavy dose of salt involved here.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483597/pts-patch-notes-v5-1-0#latest
Ok. Lol. Still not P2W. Absurd to suggest it is unless one just wants to complain for the sake of it.2 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Who cares
The game's performance is the worst and people are worried about this tripe. If Zos gave a sh*t the game wouldn't be the mess it is now. Day 1 player and this current performance is just a sign that Zos is done with this beautiful game.
They quit on us, their loyal player base long ago.3 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ffs people on this forum have been whinging about the grind for skill lines for alts for ages, and demanding this kind of a solution.
So Zos actually listens, but does it in a way to make sure you have completed it on at least one character first & then charges you - for something that you don’t ACTUALLY HAVE TO BUY - and people still complain?
Ridiculous.
Have 15 characters. Main has done all skill lines. Will i be buying these for any of my alts? Nope, as happy to get them in-game. Do i care if others buy them? Nope, as buying skills does not make you a better player. Still have to learn how to use them.
And still unsure what exactly is ‘winning’ in this game? For me it would be better bloody performance & being able to play a few hours of pvp without dc’ing.....😝3 -
JamuThatsWho✭✭✭✭✭
✭No it hasn't.
What are you "winning" exactly?
You still have to unlock the skills on another character first, and buying them doesn't give you any advantages that another player can't get.
I wish people would stop being so dramatic.@JamuThatsWho - PC EU - CP2100
Main:
Vasiir-jo - Khajiit Magicka Necromancer, AD
Alts:Sul-Mael Hlarothran - Dunmer Magicka Sorcerer, EP
Ushaar-Ixaht - Argonian Magicka Nightblade, DC
Rorbakh gro-Khraag - Orc Stamina Templar, AD
Anduuroon - Altmer Magicka Warden, EP
Travanius Braelia - Imperial Stamina Dragonknight, DC
Daeralon - Bosmer Stamina Arcanist, AD2 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nice option to have.
I don't see any reason to complain unless we suddenly can't grind the lines the way we always could.
Hmm... Maxed out PvP skill lines, and only have to play on one toon to get there?
Might be the push I need to make a tank and healer.
Better hit Cyrodiil.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
EchoirVarsoj✭✭Now everything starts to have sense in regards to the so limited alt friendly aspects of ESO.
I really don't like this kind of monetization, not every skill line involves the same effort to get it maxed and if we strictly measure it, it becomes unbalanced because how do you compare, for instance, the Undaunted Skill line versus the Fighter's guild leveling process.
So this is just showing up how players are treated. If you are a premium player (having eso+, buying constantly crowns, etc.) the game let's you fulfill the roles you want to commit in-game. And what about "pleb" players, how are they going to perceive these changes, if you are progressing in-game and want to try different classes, builds, explore the game basically!.
You just get more time walls, you get demoralized because while you're going spending your game-time dealing with lack of advance, the premium just had to complete once the leveling, farming, etc. process and jumps directly to wherever he wants with instant advantages.
Imagine if they would also offer these features buy-able with in-game currency, expensive but it's there in-game!0 -
scorpius2k1✭✭✭✭✭
✭This issue I personally have isn't so much with the current offerings, but more of a long-term practice I feel is happening internally with the company. Why play the game when you can just pay your way, because convenience right? Will you feel the same way if they introduce other parts such as level 50 boosts or gear/weapon sets just because "you already did that quest/dungeon/trial and earned them". Kinda makes for a shallow game if you can just purchase and skip content doesn't it? Seems to be heading this direction but time will tell and hopefully it doesn't spiral out of control. This skill line purchase is just another crown store monetization scheme no matter how much we are for or against it. Why not just let players have it as a perk of completion on a main character instead? More & more cash milking, and now on game features which puts a bad taste for me. I guess we can throw the "well it's only cosmetic" argument out the window at this point. My biggest fear is ESO is slowly and strategically creeping towards P2W / P2A practices which is never a good sign.🌎 PC/NA
🐧 Linux (Arch)
🧑💻 ESO Addon Dev
⚔️ Stamplar | Magplar | Stamcro | Magsorc | Magcro Healer3 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mostly think it's amusing that zos doesn't notice that players hate parts of the game so much they are willing to pay to avoid it.
For real though, I do think that for skyshards and for any of these new skills lines they should put a level limit on them, whether its getting to 50 first or somewhere in the range, like level 35.
I don't really play low level stuff since I'm all maxed, but it seems unfair for some noob to have to go in and fight an already experienced player, that will have gear he custom crafted, and can have ten times the skill points available, maxed out alliance war, undaunted, mage guild, etc. and be like 10th level only, just because he has enough money to waste on a game. From a money making standpoint I can see the appeal for zos, but from a balance standpoint, they should add a level limit to those purchases in addition to having to earn them on another character. It is buying power, just b/c you earned it on one character doesn't mean it's not.
I will say at least they make them expensive enough to justify still doing them in game for those not wanting to spend that much cash on that stuff.
There is also the question of what is the line? Most people choose the line based on what they've already done or like to do. But really, if you've already earned a MA bow, why have to farm for another - you can literally move that from one character to the other - so buying a second one is just a timesaver (even more so than this other stuff that you cannot move and HAD to earn in game on a new character). So now we are selling gear with this line of thought... not saying they should do that, but it actually would be less power selling IMO to do that than what they are doing now. As I said, you can move gear between characters, so selling duplicates is nothing but convenience and would at least be tied to a character level to use. What about crafting? They going to add the ability to just dupe all the time you've spent on a master crafter so you can clone it and make all your guys master crafters? We can go on obviously with more examples. But a line was crossed with skyshards and that opens up a can of worms to deal with everytime they add to it. ZoS sometimes does ok with walking that pay to win line, so maybe they will manage it just fine, but the game is slowly nudging into pay to win territory.
As long as they don't sell a magic sword of Alkosh you can only buy in the crown store that is twice as good as any weapon in game, some people will never have a problem with other degrees of pay to win though.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC3 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You know, just put complete sets into the shop, you don't win, it's just P2C since you can still farm them. Jesus...JamuThatsWho wrote: »No it hasn't.
What are you "winning" exactly?
You still have to unlock the skills on another character first, and buying them doesn't give you any advantages that another player can't get.
I wish people would stop being so dramatic.1 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭its not pay 2 win since u must already do it the legit way is just pay 2 skip so get ur complains right...yes I already said this will happen and no im not ok with it and yes I still want my damn accountwide achievements and no im certain I will not get them any time soon...1 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There we have it folks. Judging by the new PTS patch note, you can now buy the fully leveled Undaunted skill line. Are we finally seeing the decline of ESO?
I don't think this is pay to win; seems more of a convenience thing. Customers have been asking for account-wide this-and-that and buying a skill line addresses that request.
Below-50 PVP:
When I read about the skill line purchases, the first thing I thought of was the effect it could have on any lowbie toon that I take into below-50 cyrodiil (my preferred way to level my toons). That seems like a leg up an advantage, but below-50 pvp is the only place that seems like it. Just my opinion for what its worth.
edit to replace slang for actual meaning.Edited by Dojohoda on July 7, 2019 7:17PMFan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--1 -
SirAxen✭✭✭✭✭
Low level PVP places an effective time limit on how long someone can PVP in that campaign. This time limit is shortened by doing content that earns XP. Unlocking the skills that will be sold in he crown store earns XP and shortens that time limit.
True, but somehow I don't think under 50 PvP is the bar for "winning" ESO.
Place two players into under 50 PVP at level 15. Now give one player access to powerful PVP skills such as DB, Meteor, Race against time, New Circle of Prot, New Entropy, and so on.Confirmed that having the undaunted skill line makes you "win" ESO.
Are you telling me that the player who has all of the extra skills didn’t pay for power? Not to even mention undaunted.
It is a part of the game that many players who wish to participate PVP will try. Further discouraging new players from testing the waters of the PVP community.
What you define as “Winning” is irrelevant. This change will have no direct effect to me, but that isn’t the point. The point is to try and maintain a healthy community. Instead of dismissing and down playing an issue, I suggest that you try to promote a health community. If you think selling someone power to beat up on lowbies is healthy, then me typing this is a waste of time.
You have to have complete the content to unlock the purchase. Which means, that person has put in the work to have that access. It changes absolutely nothing but the time put into having it on another character.
Pls show me how it is physically possible to obtain all these things on a low level character.
That isn't the point though. Why would have a new player be on even footing with someone that has been playing much longer anyway? Do the content, get the access. If said new player wants to use something from the Fighters Guild skill line then they should, you guessed it, do the content. So, not sure a new player and low-level PVP is a sound argument against this.
New players will be at a disadvantage in under 50 PVP when they encounter older players, but why sell power to widen that gap? Why allow these older players a larger time limit for their lowbie crushing?
Again, getting crushed and learning why you're getting crushed is a big part of being new to PVP period not just low-level PVP. "Oh, that ability hurt. What was that?" *Looks at death recap* "Oh, comes from that skill line. I should go see what offers me as well."
Changes. Nothing.
Thank you for showing you have no understanding of lowbie PVP.
On live if a friend or someone I meet wants to try PVP I can tell them to try out under 50 PVP. I can craft them some decent impen gear and they have an effectively fair playing field with the others in the campaign. Sure they will lack experience, but this will be the only chance they have to be near gear parity until they reach “end game.” They can get their foot in the door and determine if PVP interest them and not feel like every player has some significantly more powerful gear.
With this addition to the crown store these players will not have an area that they can experience PVP with some parity to other players.
You physically can’t obtain all these skills at low level. This is the definition of selling power and it will directly influence an area of the game that players compete against each other. Worse still it will hurt the growth of a portion of the community that has been struggling since launch.
I'll let you in a on secret. In PVP, the objective to battle against other players. A lot of times in PVP, you get your HP sent to 0 then have to respawn to jump back into the fray. It's pretty cool, and good players tend to learn from their mistakes and get better at it. They utilize what is available to them and play content to unlock more power and progress. Example: A skill line you might not have yet, but you can attain, BY DOING.THE.CONTENT.Edited by SirAxen on July 7, 2019 7:31PM2 -
Wandering_Immigrant✭✭✭✭
Low level PVP places an effective time limit on how long someone can PVP in that campaign. This time limit is shortened by doing content that earns XP. Unlocking the skills that will be sold in he crown store earns XP and shortens that time limit.
True, but somehow I don't think under 50 PvP is the bar for "winning" ESO.
Place two players into under 50 PVP at level 15. Now give one player access to powerful PVP skills such as DB, Meteor, Race against time, New Circle of Prot, New Entropy, and so on.Confirmed that having the undaunted skill line makes you "win" ESO.
Are you telling me that the player who has all of the extra skills didn’t pay for power? Not to even mention undaunted.
It is a part of the game that many players who wish to participate PVP will try. Further discouraging new players from testing the waters of the PVP community.
What you define as “Winning” is irrelevant. This change will have no direct effect to me, but that isn’t the point. The point is to try and maintain a healthy community. Instead of dismissing and down playing an issue, I suggest that you try to promote a health community. If you think selling someone power to beat up on lowbies is healthy, then me typing this is a waste of time.
You have to have complete the content to unlock the purchase. Which means, that person has put in the work to have that access. It changes absolutely nothing but the time put into having it on another character.
Pls show me how it is physically possible to obtain all these things on a low level character.
That isn't the point though. Why would have a new player be on even footing with someone that has been playing much longer anyway? Do the content, get the access. If said new player wants to use something from the Fighters Guild skill line then they should, you guessed it, do the content. So, not sure a new player and low-level PVP is a sound argument against this.
New players will be at a disadvantage in under 50 PVP when they encounter older players, but why sell power to widen that gap? Why allow these older players a larger time limit for their lowbie crushing?
New players should be at a disadvantage...no? Why should brand new players be on equal footing with players who've been playing this game for years?
I'm sorry but why exactly should new players be at a disadvantage versus characters of otherwise equal level? I mean you SHOULD already be at an advantage from a player skill standpoint, if not that's on you, if you need abilities only obtainable through game at higher levels to beat some new player then maybe try to git ***' gud instead of just paying for a win.
I can't wait to see how many p2w scrubs there are in Kyne after this, I plan to /blacklist every single one of them, and if this halts the progress of my first PVP only character who's only level 20 atm with level appropriate abilities then I'll be going straight back to FFXIV where their online store is mostly just for utility and a few random cosmetics.2 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So ?
Grinding undaunted is boring and this was very appreciated.
Not everyone wants to spend time doing boring dungeons over and over on alts.
If you want to re-grind undaunted on every character you make, be my guest and do so.
Doesn't mean there shouldn't be another option for people who hates it
EU | PC2
