5.1.0 - Well Done!

Moonsorrow

Derra wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Asgari wrote: »

Exactly, I think many PvE focused players have never entered pvp and don’t realize a majority of these changes make pvp much more balanced.

Sure PvE might get affected a bit but don’t go into content with 4 DPS or just 1 person who is like a hybrid healer tank or healer dps. It’s time for people to learn mechanics and get better.

"might get affected a bit" if only that would be the case. There is phases in vet Trials that depend on springs to outheal continous Damage on all 12 People.

Put a few healing abilities like echoing vigor, ritual, healing tethers, enchanted growth, circle of protection etc. on dds and you can easily substitute the healing spring stack just by having a few damage dealers slot one additional ability for utility and healing. Players again act like changes are the end of the world every update instead of seeing change as an opportunity to try out things that weren't done before.

Don't get me wrong, some changes are controversial, but I see a lot of good stuff in the notes as well.

I was thinking about not posting in here because I know what will happen if I do, but oh well...

I honestly haven´t found any long term experienced player that doesn´t draw an overall positive conclusion from the whole package of changes in the notes.

Yep. It is like a 9/10 patch with mostly great stuff.

Only few things need a bit of adjustment.. but all in all a good patch that will be a breath of fresh air and all new possibilites and options on how to play things. Positively waiting for it already.

Sanguinor2

Masel wrote: »

Put a few healing abilities like echoing vigor, ritual, healing tethers, enchanted growth, circle of protection etc. on dds and you can easily substitute the healing spring stack just by having a few damage dealers slot one additional ability for utility and healing. Players again act like changes are the end of the world every update instead of seeing change as an opportunity to try out things that weren't done before.

Don't get me wrong, some changes are controversial, but I see a lot of good stuff in the notes as well.

I was thinking about not posting in here because I know what will happen if I do, but oh well...

Well bringing 10 stamcros to stack the buffed vigor sounds Pretty attractive too, dont think thats the Goal of making healers more relevant tho. There is good stuff in the notes, but there is bad stuff too, 2h will drop far behind dual wield again, class aoe dots all get nerfed to the Point where you are probably better of replacing them with the new non class single target dots, the orbs Change is one of the weirdest Changes I´ve read yet.
We´ll see what happens, if it turns out as bad as I fear I will simply stop doing endgame PvE except for helping out Friends, I got all relevant titles Skins etc. except for godslayer and Im not getting that one anytime soon on a magplar dps. If it does not then yeah my Groups will adapt but it certainly doesnt look good when the Argument becomes, just bring healing in your dps. Will we be going in PVP gear soon for better Sustain and less deahts?

Super_Bubus

Exactly what @code65536 said, as obvious as it is... PVPers want their game fixed when they don't care what happens to PVE. But yet again PVP can't be balanced and never will be. One complains there's too many Nightblades when it's only Stamblades since Magblades are basically suffering to even exist, or when there's more StamDK than anything, or when the whole meta tank/dps is bad, or when someone is just not good enough to do anything in there ; it just never ends.
Making 2 separate "worlds" PVP and PVE is clearly the solution for everyone to be happy indeed , but that's way too much work right, better create content over and over again and put new TOS saying they're not responsible for anything when it's broken.
These patch notes are the perfect illustration of developpers not playing their own game, same was with the cast time on the shields which we made great effort to fight against such a thing..now I'd rather have cast time on shields over one Orb and one Healing Springs at a time.
See ya in week 4 hopefully.

Durham

All of the end game content can be done with the proposed changes stop acting as its the end of the world. I believe some of these changes were done for performance reasons also. Im sorry but I think these changes are good.

Asgari

Durham wrote: »

All of the end game content can be done with the proposed changes stop acting as its the end of the world. I believe some of these changes were done for performance reasons also. Im sorry but I think these changes are good.

AOE healing is for sure one of the leading causes for lag. I’m glad they are finally doing something serious about it

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Lucky28 wrote: »

one thing i will say about the set changes. Phoenix looks somewhat interesting, martial knowledge though.... lol what?. not like anyone used Martial knowledge much anymore but still, lol.

I did. It was useful enough and easy to acquire.

Probably not anymore though, seeing as it's now triggering on Stamina and that character is Magicka...

Derra

norrisnick wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Asgari wrote: »

Exactly, I think many PvE focused players have never entered pvp and don’t realize a majority of these changes make pvp much more balanced.

Sure PvE might get affected a bit but don’t go into content with 4 DPS or just 1 person who is like a hybrid healer tank or healer dps. It’s time for people to learn mechanics and get better.

"might get affected a bit" if only that would be the case. There is phases in vet Trials that depend on springs to outheal continous Damage on all 12 People.

Put a few healing abilities like echoing vigor, ritual, healing tethers, enchanted growth, circle of protection etc. on dds and you can easily substitute the healing spring stack just by having a few damage dealers slot one additional ability for utility and healing. Players again act like changes are the end of the world every update instead of seeing change as an opportunity to try out things that weren't done before.

Don't get me wrong, some changes are controversial, but I see a lot of good stuff in the notes as well.

I was thinking about not posting in here because I know what will happen if I do, but oh well...

I honestly haven´t found any long term experienced player that doesn´t draw an overall positive conclusion from the whole package of changes in the notes.

Have you talked to any healers?

Yeah - those that i spoke too seemed unsure rather than unhappy about not spamming orbs and springs anymore.

leepalmer95

Destruent wrote: »

Sun7dance wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I really like the changes to single-target and AoE-Dots, looks really nice.
But i'm kinda surprised to the changes to healing skills and executioner...Executioner did not need a buff imo...but we'll see how it looks like in the end

The problem isn't executioner itself, but the other morph. Reverse slash is much more effective, because you also deal the bonus damage to enemies which have more than 50% health.
But instead of balance reverse slash, they buff executioner.

True, Executioner already did as much Damage as radiant destruction while being instant...now it's even stronger and imo too strong.

To be fair, ones is melee and one a ranged.

The melee one should be stronger because it's got far more risk than a 28m execute.

Varana

Asgari wrote: »

So come up with new setups and theory craft new builds/strats. It’s a part of the game. Gotta keep things interesting.

Hmm. Maybe PvPers come up with strategies and builds?
Sets "too strong"? Build around it.
Groups "too strong"? Get into a group yourself.
Some classes "too strong"? Change your class to that one.

Apparently, you expect PvErs to do exactly those things. Get to work yourself for once.

leepalmer95

Super_Bubus wrote: »

Exactly what @code65536 said, as obvious as it is... PVPers want their game fixed when they don't care what happens to PVE. But yet again PVP can't be balanced and never will be. One complains there's too many Nightblades when it's only Stamblades since Magblades are basically suffering to even exist, or when there's more StamDK than anything, or when the whole meta tank/dps is bad, or when someone is just not good enough to do anything in there ; it just never ends.
Making 2 separate "worlds" PVP and PVE is clearly the solution for everyone to be happy indeed , but that's way too much work right, better create content over and over again and put new TOS saying they're not responsible for anything when it's broken.
These patch notes are the perfect illustration of developpers not playing their own game, same was with the cast time on the shields which we made great effort to fight against such a thing..now I'd rather have cast time on shields over one Orb and one Healing Springs at a time.
See ya in week 4 hopefully.

Have some dd's slot some of the new long lasting aoe heals.

Maybe a way to counter the fact people are hitting 100k dps in execute phases is to reduce people sustain a little bit and force them to spend some to heal occasionally so people have to drop some dmg in order to sustain slightly lower dps.

It's a good idea. Because the power creep needs looking at and I know most pve on the forum would rather get stronger and stronger so eventually the power creep will do the trials for them.

Asgari

Varana wrote: »

Asgari wrote: »

So come up with new setups and theory craft new builds/strats. It’s a part of the game. Gotta keep things interesting.

Hmm. Maybe PvPers come up with strategies and builds?
Sets "too strong"? Build around it.
Groups "too strong"? Get into a group yourself.
Some classes "too strong"? Change your class to that one.

Apparently, you expect PvErs to do exactly those things. Get to work yourself for once.

I expect PvE players to learn mechanics and work on their rotations.

PvP isn’t scripted.

PvP has a significantly more players interacting in one situation than PvE does in its largest content of 12 players per instance.

Healing and wide spread heavy armor usage with other forms of dmg mitigation are a major issue. ZOS are finally doing some about it and doing so very well.

As someone who has done almost all PvE content and done it all when it comes to PvP I can tell you that the PvE community will be just fine. And it is only the first pts notes, there are minimum of 4 other changes coming.

norrisnick

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Super_Bubus wrote: »

Exactly what @code65536 said, as obvious as it is... PVPers want their game fixed when they don't care what happens to PVE. But yet again PVP can't be balanced and never will be. One complains there's too many Nightblades when it's only Stamblades since Magblades are basically suffering to even exist, or when there's more StamDK than anything, or when the whole meta tank/dps is bad, or when someone is just not good enough to do anything in there ; it just never ends.
Making 2 separate "worlds" PVP and PVE is clearly the solution for everyone to be happy indeed , but that's way too much work right, better create content over and over again and put new TOS saying they're not responsible for anything when it's broken.
These patch notes are the perfect illustration of developpers not playing their own game, same was with the cast time on the shields which we made great effort to fight against such a thing..now I'd rather have cast time on shields over one Orb and one Healing Springs at a time.
See ya in week 4 hopefully.

Have some dd's slot some of the new long lasting aoe heals.

Maybe a way to counter the fact people are hitting 100k dps in execute phases is to reduce people sustain a little bit and force them to spend some to heal occasionally so people have to drop some dmg in order to sustain slightly lower dps.

It's a good idea. Because the power creep needs looking at and I know most pve on the forum would rather get stronger and stronger so eventually the power creep will do the trials for them.

Then why bring healers? That's the issue here. This patch is potentially killing off dedicated group healers in end-game PVE because their toolkits will not allow them to heal a 12 man raid through some of the more severe healing checks. So if all the DDs have to slot their own heals for that check, and build for sustain because there aren't enough orbs to go around, what are the healers there for?

Can you see why that might be distressing to people that main as PVE healer/supports? They already aren't invited to 4-man content anymore because ZOS' fix to not bringing tanks was just building in one-shots mechanics that only tanks could block or everyone had to get out of. Can't heal through a one-shot so why bring a healer?

leepalmer95

norrisnick wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Super_Bubus wrote: »

Exactly what @code65536 said, as obvious as it is... PVPers want their game fixed when they don't care what happens to PVE. But yet again PVP can't be balanced and never will be. One complains there's too many Nightblades when it's only Stamblades since Magblades are basically suffering to even exist, or when there's more StamDK than anything, or when the whole meta tank/dps is bad, or when someone is just not good enough to do anything in there ; it just never ends.
Making 2 separate "worlds" PVP and PVE is clearly the solution for everyone to be happy indeed , but that's way too much work right, better create content over and over again and put new TOS saying they're not responsible for anything when it's broken.
These patch notes are the perfect illustration of developpers not playing their own game, same was with the cast time on the shields which we made great effort to fight against such a thing..now I'd rather have cast time on shields over one Orb and one Healing Springs at a time.
See ya in week 4 hopefully.

Have some dd's slot some of the new long lasting aoe heals.

Maybe a way to counter the fact people are hitting 100k dps in execute phases is to reduce people sustain a little bit and force them to spend some to heal occasionally so people have to drop some dmg in order to sustain slightly lower dps.

It's a good idea. Because the power creep needs looking at and I know most pve on the forum would rather get stronger and stronger so eventually the power creep will do the trials for them.

Then why bring healers? That's the issue here. This patch is potentially killing off dedicated group healers in end-game PVE because their toolkits will not allow them to heal a 12 man raid through some of the more severe healing checks. So if all the DDs have to slot their own heals for that check, and build for sustain because there aren't enough orbs to go around, what are the healers there for?

Can you see why that might be distressing to people that main as PVE healer/supports? They already aren't invited to 4-man content anymore because ZOS' fix to not bringing tanks was just building in one-shots mechanics that only tanks could block or everyone had to get out of. Can't heal through a one-shot so why bring a healer?

To support tanks? To keep dd's alive through the non hard hitting heal checks so they can actually DD. For support sets, certain buffs etc...

Apherius

Asgari wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, these changes make me seriously question my subscription to this game.

I'll leave final judgement for patch day, but given the ZOS track record of not listening to decent feedback at all, I won't hold out any hope on anything.

I mean there's a few good adjustments in there.. but 90% nerfs is what I'm reading.

And the Orbs change.. just wow.

Yes there are a lot of nerfs but much of it was seriously needed. God mode needs to end and people need to get back to actually working to survive and be punished when they make mistakes.

"God mod needs to end" are you sure you read the patch note ? and especially the changes to Dawn’s Wrath

Destruent

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Sun7dance wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I really like the changes to single-target and AoE-Dots, looks really nice.
But i'm kinda surprised to the changes to healing skills and executioner...Executioner did not need a buff imo...but we'll see how it looks like in the end

The problem isn't executioner itself, but the other morph. Reverse slash is much more effective, because you also deal the bonus damage to enemies which have more than 50% health.
But instead of balance reverse slash, they buff executioner.

True, Executioner already did as much Damage as radiant destruction while being instant...now it's even stronger and imo too strong.

To be fair, ones is melee and one a ranged.

The melee one should be stronger because it's got far more risk than a 28m execute.

one is instant and gets 1 additional light attack every 2 seconds so it evens out (considering this, it is even stronger than radiant on the live server). On top of that, range/melee-discussion doesn't matter at all in pve.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Super_Bubus wrote: »

Exactly what @code65536 said, as obvious as it is... PVPers want their game fixed when they don't care what happens to PVE. But yet again PVP can't be balanced and never will be. One complains there's too many Nightblades when it's only Stamblades since Magblades are basically suffering to even exist, or when there's more StamDK than anything, or when the whole meta tank/dps is bad, or when someone is just not good enough to do anything in there ; it just never ends.
Making 2 separate "worlds" PVP and PVE is clearly the solution for everyone to be happy indeed , but that's way too much work right, better create content over and over again and put new TOS saying they're not responsible for anything when it's broken.
These patch notes are the perfect illustration of developpers not playing their own game, same was with the cast time on the shields which we made great effort to fight against such a thing..now I'd rather have cast time on shields over one Orb and one Healing Springs at a time.
See ya in week 4 hopefully.

Have some dd's slot some of the new long lasting aoe heals.

Maybe a way to counter the fact people are hitting 100k dps in execute phases is to reduce people sustain a little bit and force them to spend some to heal occasionally so people have to drop some dmg in order to sustain slightly lower dps.

It's a good idea. Because the power creep needs looking at and I know most pve on the forum would rather get stronger and stronger so eventually the power creep will do the trials for them.

but it doesn't work that way...

not enough heals to outheal the increasing dmg in execute --> DPS slots heals/more sustain --> longer execute --> more heals needed --> repeat

you would need more DPS not less to compensate for that...

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for decresing DPS (~40k St at max is a nice number for me tbh), but you don't get there by decreasing heals. You'd need to rebalance CP, Light attacks and the newer trials (newer than vMoL) to get this done.

norrisnick

leepalmer95 wrote: »

norrisnick wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Super_Bubus wrote: »

Exactly what @code65536 said, as obvious as it is... PVPers want their game fixed when they don't care what happens to PVE. But yet again PVP can't be balanced and never will be. One complains there's too many Nightblades when it's only Stamblades since Magblades are basically suffering to even exist, or when there's more StamDK than anything, or when the whole meta tank/dps is bad, or when someone is just not good enough to do anything in there ; it just never ends.
Making 2 separate "worlds" PVP and PVE is clearly the solution for everyone to be happy indeed , but that's way too much work right, better create content over and over again and put new TOS saying they're not responsible for anything when it's broken.
These patch notes are the perfect illustration of developpers not playing their own game, same was with the cast time on the shields which we made great effort to fight against such a thing..now I'd rather have cast time on shields over one Orb and one Healing Springs at a time.
See ya in week 4 hopefully.

Have some dd's slot some of the new long lasting aoe heals.

Maybe a way to counter the fact people are hitting 100k dps in execute phases is to reduce people sustain a little bit and force them to spend some to heal occasionally so people have to drop some dmg in order to sustain slightly lower dps.

It's a good idea. Because the power creep needs looking at and I know most pve on the forum would rather get stronger and stronger so eventually the power creep will do the trials for them.

Then why bring healers? That's the issue here. This patch is potentially killing off dedicated group healers in end-game PVE because their toolkits will not allow them to heal a 12 man raid through some of the more severe healing checks. So if all the DDs have to slot their own heals for that check, and build for sustain because there aren't enough orbs to go around, what are the healers there for?

Can you see why that might be distressing to people that main as PVE healer/supports? They already aren't invited to 4-man content anymore because ZOS' fix to not bringing tanks was just building in one-shots mechanics that only tanks could block or everyone had to get out of. Can't heal through a one-shot so why bring a healer?

To support tanks? To keep dd's alive through the non hard hitting heal checks so they can actually DD. For support sets, certain buffs etc...

They've already put a stam dps in Alkosh. A mag will get Olo (or a tank even, mine does in some 4-man content). And a templar/sorc will toss a shard/conduit to a tank every other rotation. All more viable than a healer's lone orb.

leepalmer95

Destruent wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Sun7dance wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I really like the changes to single-target and AoE-Dots, looks really nice.
But i'm kinda surprised to the changes to healing skills and executioner...Executioner did not need a buff imo...but we'll see how it looks like in the end

The problem isn't executioner itself, but the other morph. Reverse slash is much more effective, because you also deal the bonus damage to enemies which have more than 50% health.
But instead of balance reverse slash, they buff executioner.

True, Executioner already did as much Damage as radiant destruction while being instant...now it's even stronger and imo too strong.

To be fair, ones is melee and one a ranged.

The melee one should be stronger because it's got far more risk than a 28m execute.

one is instant and gets 1 additional light attack every 2 seconds so it evens out (considering this, it is even stronger than radiant on the live server). On top of that, range/melee-discussion doesn't matter at all in pve.

Ranged/ melee 100% matters in pve.

The fact that melee are so much subject to being one shot and have to constantly stop DD's because of some sort of close range AOE 100% matters.

The boss moves, the ranged can just keep executing the melee has to run up to the boss again.

karthrag_inak

22 instances of "increased the cost"; 25 instances of "reduced the damage";

This seems like a heavy handed, poorly thought out attempt to counter the run-away dps of the past year, which ironically was caused mainly, not by class and weapon skills, but by trial gear introduced in expansions to all but guarantee purchase by any folks wishing to compete. by nerfing skill damage and leaving these gear sets untouched, these sets are going to be even more essential, motivating more purchases.

well played, zos.

Destruent

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Sun7dance wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I really like the changes to single-target and AoE-Dots, looks really nice.
But i'm kinda surprised to the changes to healing skills and executioner...Executioner did not need a buff imo...but we'll see how it looks like in the end

The problem isn't executioner itself, but the other morph. Reverse slash is much more effective, because you also deal the bonus damage to enemies which have more than 50% health.
But instead of balance reverse slash, they buff executioner.

True, Executioner already did as much Damage as radiant destruction while being instant...now it's even stronger and imo too strong.

To be fair, ones is melee and one a ranged.

The melee one should be stronger because it's got far more risk than a 28m execute.

one is instant and gets 1 additional light attack every 2 seconds so it evens out (considering this, it is even stronger than radiant on the live server). On top of that, range/melee-discussion doesn't matter at all in pve.

Ranged/ melee 100% matters in pve.

The fact that melee are so much subject to being one shot and have to constantly stop DD's because of some sort of close range AOE 100% matters.

The boss moves, the ranged can just keep executing the melee has to run up to the boss again.

there are exactly 2 raids in this game where you just cannot play melee efficiently. other than that...l2p. Sry if it sounds hard, but thats it.

Craglorn trials? maybe warrior in hardmode...but even there you can adjust tactic to not move that much (and even if you move, ranged will have to move too)
MoL: stationary bosses apart from some repositioning, but easy to play melee
vAS/vCR: RIP melee
vHoF: no reason not to melee
vSS: melee ftw

Sriivah

I'm inclined so sit, wait, and see for most of these changes, but the healer changes are completely nonsensical. I can't think of a *single* trial whose endboss does not have a heavy, group-wide heal check necessitating strong aoe healing - stripping that from the two only really viable skills means that every group minus those currently putting the absolute highest scores on the leaderboards might as well not even bother trying to clear. ZOS one day says they want healers to be more needed in pve content, and then strips away their most useful skills the next.

I think the most tragic, almost to the point of being funny, thing I see is the pvpers celebrating this. The ballzergs you guys hate so much? They'll just switch to cleanse, or the clap heal, or maybe shrooms/doublecast flowers, or most likely all three. Any organized guild will barely notice the changes beyond maybe slightly miffed healers building for more regen or an additional purger - probably their Nightblade healer. Plus, your standard faction stack barely considers healers a thing whatsoever, so that's not really "solved" either.

I really, really hope that this is another strategy like their shield change - do something obviously, hilariously non-functional in the first iteration and then replace it with something more reasonable later on to minimize the complaints about how it ends up. Because I can see absolutely 0 positives to the healing nerfs.

Nyladreas

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

From a PVP-Battlegrounds perspective, and from a Veteran Hard Mode Dungeon perspective, these changes look excellent.

I can't speak from a trial perspective, as I've only done a few normal trials.

I was thinking though, if the springs changes alone could be so game changing for trial-goers, do you think that maybe springs was over-tuned to begin with?

Let'a use our heads for a moment here without getting heated. If not being able to stack healing springs would make certain trials impossible, what if these changes are designed for force endgame trial-goers to stack more resistance, in turn lowering DPS?

Just thinking out loud here, I don't even know if the "Heal-check" damage can be mitigated.

You are exactly right! It's just that people don't want to give up their perfect little toys, don't want to adapt, or change their strategies etc. They never do.

Instead of looking for new and fun ways to beat the content, new interesting perspectives and changing setups, they'll just cry like little children cause they can't have it the way they're used to. Actually baffles me, this could make everything fresh and fun. Instead the result seems to be doom and gloom.

Nyladreas

DELETE - DOUBLE POST

leepalmer95

Nyladreas wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

From a PVP-Battlegrounds perspective, and from a Veteran Hard Mode Dungeon perspective, these changes look excellent.

I can't speak from a trial perspective, as I've only done a few normal trials.

I was thinking though, if the springs changes alone could be so game changing for trial-goers, do you think that maybe springs was over-tuned to begin with?

Let'a use our heads for a moment here without getting heated. If not being able to stack healing springs would make certain trials impossible, what if these changes are designed for force endgame trial-goers to stack more resistance, in turn lowering DPS?

Just thinking out loud here, I don't even know if the "Heal-check" damage can be mitigated.

You are exactly right! It's just that people don't want to give up their perfect little toys. They never do.

Instead of looking for new and fun ways to adapt, they'll just cry like little children cause they gotta try harder. Actually baffles me.

They expect to get stronger and stronger every patch to eventually clear content instead of getting better to clear it. Why get better when power creep and zos's inevitable nerf of content will do it for them.

leepalmer95

Destruent wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Sun7dance wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I really like the changes to single-target and AoE-Dots, looks really nice.
But i'm kinda surprised to the changes to healing skills and executioner...Executioner did not need a buff imo...but we'll see how it looks like in the end

The problem isn't executioner itself, but the other morph. Reverse slash is much more effective, because you also deal the bonus damage to enemies which have more than 50% health.
But instead of balance reverse slash, they buff executioner.

True, Executioner already did as much Damage as radiant destruction while being instant...now it's even stronger and imo too strong.

To be fair, ones is melee and one a ranged.

The melee one should be stronger because it's got far more risk than a 28m execute.

one is instant and gets 1 additional light attack every 2 seconds so it evens out (considering this, it is even stronger than radiant on the live server). On top of that, range/melee-discussion doesn't matter at all in pve.

Ranged/ melee 100% matters in pve.

The fact that melee are so much subject to being one shot and have to constantly stop DD's because of some sort of close range AOE 100% matters.

The boss moves, the ranged can just keep executing the melee has to run up to the boss again.

there are exactly 2 raids in this game where you just cannot play melee efficiently. other than that...l2p. Sry if it sounds hard, but thats it.

Craglorn trials? maybe warrior in hardmode...but even there you can adjust tactic to not move that much (and even if you move, ranged will have to move too)
MoL: stationary bosses apart from some repositioning, but easy to play melee
vAS/vCR: RIP melee
vHoF: no reason not to melee
vSS: melee ftw

Imagine saying learn to play after saying there is no difference between ranged and melee.

I'm sorry but if you can't see the obvious advantage of ranged vs melee that why would I bother.

Destruent

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Sun7dance wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I really like the changes to single-target and AoE-Dots, looks really nice.
But i'm kinda surprised to the changes to healing skills and executioner...Executioner did not need a buff imo...but we'll see how it looks like in the end

The problem isn't executioner itself, but the other morph. Reverse slash is much more effective, because you also deal the bonus damage to enemies which have more than 50% health.
But instead of balance reverse slash, they buff executioner.

True, Executioner already did as much Damage as radiant destruction while being instant...now it's even stronger and imo too strong.

To be fair, ones is melee and one a ranged.

The melee one should be stronger because it's got far more risk than a 28m execute.

one is instant and gets 1 additional light attack every 2 seconds so it evens out (considering this, it is even stronger than radiant on the live server). On top of that, range/melee-discussion doesn't matter at all in pve.

Ranged/ melee 100% matters in pve.

The fact that melee are so much subject to being one shot and have to constantly stop DD's because of some sort of close range AOE 100% matters.

The boss moves, the ranged can just keep executing the melee has to run up to the boss again.

there are exactly 2 raids in this game where you just cannot play melee efficiently. other than that...l2p. Sry if it sounds hard, but thats it.

Craglorn trials? maybe warrior in hardmode...but even there you can adjust tactic to not move that much (and even if you move, ranged will have to move too)
MoL: stationary bosses apart from some repositioning, but easy to play melee
vAS/vCR: RIP melee
vHoF: no reason not to melee
vSS: melee ftw

Imagine saying learn to play after saying there is no difference between ranged and melee.

I'm sorry but if you can't see the obvious advantage of ranged vs melee that why would I bother.

I know there is an advantage, but looking at parses in my raidgroup and in other raidgroups it doesn't matter as soon as you lerned the fights (in most fights).
Just tell me the fight where having a non-ranged execute heavily reduces your DPS.

edit: oh and don'T forget...factoring in light attacks executioner is already stronger than radiant on the live-server (max-numbers are also only achieved on radiant when you have full magicka...)

DreadDaedroth

Well done in making things more boring and flat!
When are they going to work for example on the great number of sets that nobody uses?

Lucky28

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

one thing i will say about the set changes. Phoenix looks somewhat interesting, martial knowledge though.... lol what?. not like anyone used Martial knowledge much anymore but still, lol.

I did. It was useful enough and easy to acquire.

Probably not anymore though, seeing as it's now triggering on Stamina and that character is Magicka...

the set is still magicka based though. that's why it's such a baffling change.....wth ZoS?.

Super_Bubus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Have some dd's slot some of the new long lasting aoe heals.

Maybe a way to counter the fact people are hitting 100k dps in execute phases is to reduce people sustain a little bit and force them to spend some to heal occasionally so people have to drop some dmg in order to sustain slightly lower dps.

It's a good idea. Because the power creep needs looking at and I know most pve on the forum would rather get stronger and stronger so eventually the power creep will do the trials for them.

Some classes can last longer with self heals such as Magblade who have them built-in in their rotation but no DD can withstand heal checks such as the ones provided by healers with Springs in specific executes or mechanics that require healers to spam them. Tbh you don't need self heals much in raids if you're aware of mechanics, but you need your healers to pass them checks.
You'll wipe because tanks have no resources due to having only one Orb that DD's will jump on or because heals were not strong enough due to Springs being nerfed. It's fine anywhere else tbh go with one Orb and Springs in dungeons or w/e sure but in harder trials...

I'm all up for trying harder though, just that it wouldn't be as bad if only Orbs were nerfed. Also reworking CP system is the most efficient way to reduce power creep but this is for next year. Sooo yeah I don't know, is this a way to deal with performances issue? Doubt it..I mean the game runs fine enough most of the time. It's really the bugs in trial, but since the huge minority of players raid it's not a priority.

gepe87

I think that every class lost something, so its useless to say that "this" or "that" class was too nerfed.

Its a Nerfmire v.2 bit this time everyone lose.

master_vanargand

I agree with update.
But I want Barbed Trap to be 20 sec and Volley to be 10 sec.
18sec and 8sec make Stamina DPS rotation very difficult.