What happend to the Class Rep Programm?

SirAndy

Ogou wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

You're still going on about that joke? How dare a class rep make a joke?

There's a reason he's not a class rep anymore.
I really hope he isn't going to start a new career as a stand-up comedian.

Wait, why do you think he's not a class rep anymore?

@Ogou

He got banned ...

Ogou

SirAndy wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

You're still going on about that joke? How dare a class rep make a joke?

There's a reason he's not a class rep anymore.
I really hope he isn't going to start a new career as a stand-up comedian.

Wait, why do you think he's not a class rep anymore?

@Ogou

He got banned ...

And why did he get banned? I'm just trying to find the correlation between him not being a class rep anymore and the joke he made.

SirAndy

Ogou wrote: »

And why did he get banned? I'm just trying to find the correlation between him not being a class rep anymore and the joke he made.

@Ogou

No correlation, just me being a ***. He got banned for violating the NDA.

I actually think that was a stupid move by ZOS and not really deserved, but that's another thread ...

Ogou

SirAndy wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

And why did he get banned? I'm just trying to find the correlation between him not being a class rep anymore and the joke he made.

@Ogou

No correlation, just me being a ***. He got banned for violating the NDA.

I actually think that was a stupid move by ZOS and not really deserved, but that's another thread ...

Ah, no worries then.

yodased

SirAndy wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

And why did he get banned? I'm just trying to find the correlation between him not being a class rep anymore and the joke he made.

@Ogou

No correlation, just me being a ***. He got banned for violating the NDA.

I actually think that was a stupid move by ZOS and not really deserved, but that's another thread ...

TinFoil Hat On:

But did he? Or was that just a convenient excuse to get rid of someone who was causing more trouble than they were worth?

Tinfoil hat off.

The system is flawed from conception, it isn't going to be representative of players and ZOS doesn't listen to the ones they chose anyway, so not sure why myself or any of us actually put any thought into it.

wishlist14

Rather than have rep programs ......I believe eso is it's own unique game and always will be as it has a very strong eso flavour which is what i always have loved about it but......and hear me out please...

An icy veins type site for eso would be an ideal model for eso to follow. If you dont know what icy veins is, its a builds hub or site run by moderators that are all about builds. Think Alcasts' website but a bit different because it's not about an individual's builds but rather a huge pool of information showing ways you can build your characters for what you want them to do.

This site would include information on skills that are viable at the time, passives to use, explain that if you use skill A then skill C would be more appropriate because of this passive or this.......

So this site would have suggestions on gear and each ability for each class and role explained by an expert...here is where the class reps and zos moderators could work together to bring us the best ever player guides in one hub.

This site would also cover enchants, food to use, mundus etc and have pvp and pve section. It could also cover beginner guides etc.....

Kel

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

HOPEFULLY we can get a class rep that mainly plays on console, seeing as how it's 2/3rds of the available platforms to play on.
Why they didn't have console representatives from the start is mind blowing...

@Kel I know the PERFECT console rep.

This glorious enlightened man. @Sandman929

He gets my vote...

Rikumaru

SirAndy wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

You're still going on about that joke? How dare a class rep make a joke?

There's a reason he's not a class rep anymore.

I really hope he isn't going to start a new career as a stand-up comedian.

How petty can you be to constantly **** on a player because they are speaking the truth?

BlueRaven

If the class rep system exists or does not exist it really would make little difference for the majority of players.

It’s just ZOS choosing select people about select things while they both collectively stick their fingers in their ears when it comes to the rest of the community.

This whole program is just PR.

AlienatedGoat

SirAndy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

So, basically we have now a bunch of ZOS-elected super thankful ("im so special") VIP players that don't represent anything but their own opinions so ZOS can continue to ignore the rest of the community?!

That is exactly the problem with this approach. You get a bunch of well seasoned players that have cleared all the content a few times over in one room and expect them to represent all of the player base.

We have already seen comments from "Class Representatives" about how overland content is "too easy" and 1st person is only used by "role players".

They'll represent 10% of the game's population and leave the remaining 90% wonder WTF just happened to their game ...

Overland content *is* too easy, if you're a vet. That's by far my #1 gripe with ESO - I can't enjoy most of the game content because the difficulty scaling drops off a cliff after you know the game.

Give me a veteran difficulty toggle, guys. Let me enjoy overland again.

SirAndy

Rikumaru wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

You're still going on about that joke? How dare a class rep make a joke?

There's a reason he's not a class rep anymore.
I really hope he isn't going to start a new career as a stand-up comedian.

How petty can you be to constantly **** on a player because they are speaking the truth?

The "truth"? We must have been reading different posts.

All i saw was a lot of conjecture based on a rather narrow view of what this game should be ...

SirAndy

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Overland content *is* too easy, if you're a vet.

That is exactly my point ...

starkerealm

Odovacar wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

HOPEFULLY we can get a class rep that mainly plays on console, seeing as how it's 2/3rds of the available platforms to play on.
Why they didn't have console representatives from the start is mind blowing...

Because, in spite of claims that PC players have addons to, "play the game for them," the most knowledgeable players tend to be on PC. The same API access that console players deride also allow players to further examine and analyze what's happening in front of them.

There are very knowledgeable players on all platforms. With all opinions aside, I strongly believe a console rep is needed for too many reasons to list. Yes we cannot participate in PTS but we do have a large population that has plenty of feedback for ZOS to pick between.


Oh yeah...let me bow and kiss the ring of the almighty PC master race "Say thank you now"

I know some very knowledgeable players who came from, or still are, on console. That's not the point. The issue is that the game deliberately hides information from the player which can be seen if you're tracking info from the API. This isn't bashing anyone, simply put, console players have neither the access nor the tools to fully assess how the game behaves.

A player, on PC, who uses addons to learn more about how the game functions, will end up with more, comprehensive, knowledge of how the various mechanics work. I've met console ex-pats who were genuinely surprised to learn how XP was allocated to skill lines, didn't know that gear deterioration was tied to XP gain, and a number of other obtuse systems that the game only kinda explains, or never bothers to.

The other factor here is PTS access. Obviously, not every PC player gets on the PTS, or derps around there, but it does offer significant advantages for build prototyping builds, and experimenting with systems. It has a significant disadvantage in that you can't test things without accomplices, but, that's seriously outweighed when you can replicate your, "ideal build" on the spot and immediately test with it, rather than having to grind out weeks of advanced content to get the pieces you want to check.

It's not like this is some, "across the board," thing. There certainly are players on PC who follow builds, and Raid Notifier messages, without any thought, just like there are console players who've spent a lot of time digging through the available information. The difference is, it is significantly easier to build up that body of knowledge on PC, where you have the tools to see it in action as it happens, rather than it being something you had to read about.

Beyond that, the major issues that only affect the consoles are quality of life issues (which ZOS does know about, and is working on), and performance (which they're also aware of, but can't really fix overnight.) Leading to the point where a "console rep" couldn't really tell them anything they don't already know.

Onefrkncrzypope

starkerealm wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

HOPEFULLY we can get a class rep that mainly plays on console, seeing as how it's 2/3rds of the available platforms to play on.
Why they didn't have console representatives from the start is mind blowing...

Because, in spite of claims that PC players have addons to, "play the game for them," the most knowledgeable players tend to be on PC. The same API access that console players deride also allow players to further examine and analyze what's happening in front of them.

There are very knowledgeable players on all platforms. With all opinions aside, I strongly believe a console rep is needed for too many reasons to list. Yes we cannot participate in PTS but we do have a large population that has plenty of feedback for ZOS to pick between.


Oh yeah...let me bow and kiss the ring of the almighty PC master race "Say thank you now"

I know some very knowledgeable players who came from, or still are, on console. That's not the point. The issue is that the game deliberately hides information from the player which can be seen if you're tracking info from the API. This isn't bashing anyone, simply put, console players have neither the access nor the tools to fully assess how the game behaves.

A player, on PC, who uses addons to learn more about how the game functions, will end up with more, comprehensive, knowledge of how the various mechanics work. I've met console ex-pats who were genuinely surprised to learn how XP was allocated to skill lines, didn't know that gear deterioration was tied to XP gain, and a number of other obtuse systems that the game only kinda explains, or never bothers to.

The other factor here is PTS access. Obviously, not every PC player gets on the PTS, or derps around there, but it does offer significant advantages for build prototyping builds, and experimenting with systems. It has a significant disadvantage in that you can't test things without accomplices, but, that's seriously outweighed when you can replicate your, "ideal build" on the spot and immediately test with it, rather than having to grind out weeks of advanced content to get the pieces you want to check.

It's not like this is some, "across the board," thing. There certainly are players on PC who follow builds, and Raid Notifier messages, without any thought, just like there are console players who've spent a lot of time digging through the available information. The difference is, it is significantly easier to build up that body of knowledge on PC, where you have the tools to see it in action as it happens, rather than it being something you had to read about.

Beyond that, the major issues that only affect the consoles are quality of life issues (which ZOS does know about, and is working on), and performance (which they're also aware of, but can't really fix overnight.) Leading to the point where a "console rep" couldn't really tell them anything they don't already know.

So not just simplifying the obfuscation of the little information that is available to console, designing rotation timing based on the bar swap lag and the innate lag of just having a lower fps not balancing? How about the buff timers? Ever seen what it takes to try and track buffs on console? The ability to balance between the two different experiences on console and PC is just as important as magblades getting a buff soon. Having trials that have tells that tanks can track is also another great start in the changes needed between the platforms. Running a trial like vAS that has non static timers and also no preemptive tells(that can be reacted to) can also be considered an balance problems. Look I get it that class reps represent class problems but putting a knowledgeable Console player in the mix will help get what you deem QoL a viewpoint. Balance is really just QoL. Why should ZoS care how hard you main hits? Because they want you to have fun. What is so hard to understand that console needs attention. Why does that ever bother anyone?

Beardimus

The last class rep program imploded. Expectations were not met on all sides of it i would say. A couple of the most active appeared to get bullied and shut down because they approached things differently, despite clear huge effort they put in.

Likewise i think we as players lost interest as despite all feedback in a direction other directions were taken thus what's the point of adding endless discussion.

If they add more Reps they need to do a relaunch. Set out the terms of reference for what the program is, and way it is not. Make it clear. That could make it a success.

Console need to be represented, cover platforms and regions.

And ensure the people involved aren't just involved for personal gain. There was some odd behaviour reported before (purchase of gear prior to changes launched on PTS etc)

Moonsorrow

Before the even more strict NDA the class rep meeting notes were something that was truly showing how the major pain points feedback was given and what the reaction was to these. Feedback discussion had a visible effect that something (true interaction) was happening between the players and ZOS.

Developers have their grand vision on the future of the game and how they feel it should be played, how does the game feel to a new player, since that experience, that first impression is very important. Every game loses the "oldies", who done it all, who are bored to play the same stuff and or are not happy about some direction change and leave, or just finding a new game. Thus, it is important to hook in the new players fast, to keep the population steady and growing. Most important thing to the health of any online game.

Why i mention the new players, the casuals? Well, because many here seem to want the class reps to be the most hardcore people who been here for ages and do it at the "top level" daily and on top of that their opinions are the same as the ones advocating them as the voice of the people. While there are exceptions, you all know as me, that being a hardcore player at someting for years will easily put sort of blinders on you, you are passionate about the things you enjoy the most, but easily starts to forget the new player experience and what is the real situation on the floor and the roof of things and how close they are to each others in reality.

It is easy to get knowledgeable people that have passion on certain areas, but hard to also keep then a clear view of the bigger picture of things. It is just human nature, that one then turns into a politician sort of and if they are in a crossroads that they have to choose between two nerfs for example, one affecting their own favourite playstyle and one affecting some other group, you know what happens after an attempt to find a full compromise on the issue.


In the end class reps are just that, players with their opinions. Being class rep also makes you a target to the angry mob, cannot anymore really say opinions, not even a joke about things or people are all over you in anger, like their opinion or a joke was said by ZOS and was a direct insult to them and their playstyle.

The strict NDA has started to make people see the class rep program only as a few players with knowledge turned into a chatty handpuppet, players turned into politicians who can talk about things, but not talk about anything important that actually matters and that might divide players opinions, players who in the end have ended up as quiet as ZOS about the future changes to the game. They obviously are passionate about the game and wish it would be here for the enjoyment of us all in the future too. It is just hard for many to see, that there will never be a 100% agreement on big changes, ever.

Class reps will get bashing, hundreds of mails and discord messages from people that ask for nerfs, buffs and biased feedback, and they just have to be quiet about things to come in return when people ask about their opinions. Not a glamorous "job". They do get Crowns for their effort. But i bet all of them who have social media, discord.. not knew how it would be when they signed in.

People can send abusive messages to them but if they send some witty comment back, it will be screenshoted in a heartbeat and posted everywhere out of context and angry mob gathers with their usual "hurrr durrrh bad ZOS pls remove class reps omggg! and pls nerf sorc!" because being a class rep in the average forum users mind turns them into a pinata that looks like a ghost of wrobel that anyone is allowed to bash with a verbal 2H maul and they cannot say anything in return.

Good example is @Joy_Division who been always saying well thought out opinions, but gets angry people responses saying that a class rep is not allowed to have such opinions and that they should be removed from the program. I do not always agree with Joy, but i ALWAYS have a high respect when people say what they really think and when they are passionate about something. Joy has been a good class rep. I can only imagine the delicious discussions if Joy and other reps would not have NDA at all. The discussions with different views can often lead to compromises that all sides can truly be happy about. If people are reasonable and have the view on bigger picture.

TLDR: We need to have 6 @Joy_Division types, and 6 clones of @Alcast (who plays both pve and pvp, does lots for the community, builds for new players too and so on) and then the "13th person" who if all other 12 says yes to something, says a "NO" as a check of sanity, since never can all 100% agree to something without it having a serious flaw hidden in. Imagine the 13th person being the one saying "NO" when everyone else agrees to do a blanket nerf to all healing in the game and that 13th person is a player who does not even have any champion points yet, dies at dolmens, dies at quest bosses, does not even get all normal dungeons done with friends who all are new players also. And allow the class rep meeting notes to be public again. It would be glorious.

Hashtag_

Just scrap the program.

yodased

@moonsorrow very well written and thought out but ultimately way off reality.

Do some more research and look at it with objective eyes before you advocate for people

Dark_Lord_Kuro

idk wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

It is still running. 5 are left since Checkmath got banned recently. They're looking into filling the spots again. Next meeting is soon, the previous ones were about NDA stuff and weren't shared.

Why He got banned ...

Didnt saw any annoucement that they search new members

NDA breach.

NDA breach is not reason for banning an account by any means. What he claims he did is done more often than we think. I know players, including top raiders, who have done the same thing he claims yet have not been punished. Probably because they do not steam it.

But to the point, the program is still there. Zos just has a history of poor communication and an inability to turn that leaf over.

I'm talking about a class rep NDA, not a PTS NDA.

I understood exactly what NDA you were speaking to and it is not a reason for banning an account for any reason. It is only a reason to stop sharing information and possibly sue.

Well seeing i can get fired from my job if i give private company information to someone that isnt suppose to have them i can see them kick someone from a game if they give information they arent supose to have at least for now

Keep in mind they probably not only working on u23 but also u24 and maybe u25 and if the class rep have access to some information that arent anounced yet well they may get banned and even sued

Moonsorrow

yodased wrote: »

@moonsorrow very well written and thought out but ultimately way off reality.

Do some more research and look at it with objective eyes before you advocate for people

Looking at it very objectively.

But, i know realistically that with the current strict NDA, and to be comfortable and easy to ZOS, they will keep and pick people in to the program that are easy to work and communicate with, possibly even to the level that to outsider (generic forum angry person who wants something nerfed and something buffed) it seems they have collected just a group of "yes-men" that quietly agree on things at meetings while having a sip of tea and browsing social media instead of wanting to become known as a troublemaker who says what they really think.

That is what a strict NDA does make it look like. So atleast i wish that if nothing is shown to us in the future also, i`d be happy if the new class reps were not all "hardcore" but there are some in the mix that still have the new players experience of the game too as a reality or well in memory or that they are in contact of actual new players all the time. And who will say their opinions about things proudly.

And wanna also say that often i wish even ZOS people would take some risks and say their opinions, maybe even a joke on some forum topics. And when some bitter forum trolls would start their "how dare you joke about RRRRrrruining my favourite class with nerfff??" they could just reply with a laughing emote. They for sure could use some freedom of opinions and having a laugh with us too.

People take things too seriously. While the new DLC anc chapter story stuff should stay under NDA for hype & surprises for obvious reasons. I still feel the NDA on balance, skill & mechanics issues should be just removed and more open discussion and culture should begin where the interaction would be felt again. Damn, i miss some of Wrobels comeback questions to some of class reps pain points notes. Some epic stuff was said.

I want that type of discussion back in the open. And group hugs.

DjMuscleboy02

I wouldn't want people from the top 1% who have an in-depth knowledge of how game mechanics work to give devs feedback on game mechanics anyway. That just sounds silly. The people with the most achievement points should be class reps.

yodased

Moonsorrow wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

@moonsorrow very well written and thought out but ultimately way off reality.

Do some more research and look at it with objective eyes before you advocate for people

Looking at it very objectively.

But, i know realistically that with the current strict NDA, and to be comfortable and easy to ZOS, they will keep and pick people in to the program that are easy to work and communicate with, possibly even to the level that to outsider (generic forum angry person who wants something nerfed and something buffed) it seems they have collected just a group of "yes-men" that quietly agree on things at meetings while having a sip of tea and browsing social media instead of wanting to become known as a troublemaker who says what they really think.

That is what a strict NDA does make it look like. So atleast i wish that if nothing is shown to us in the future also, i`d be happy if the new class reps were not all "hardcore" but there are some in the mix that still have the new players experience of the game too as a reality or well in memory or that they are in contact of actual new players all the time. And who will say their opinions about things proudly.

And wanna also say that often i wish even ZOS people would take some risks and say their opinions, maybe even a joke on some forum topics. And when some bitter forum trolls would start their "how dare you joke about RRRRrrruining my favourite class with nerfff??" they could just reply with a laughing emote. They for sure could use some freedom of opinions and having a laugh with us too.

People take things too seriously. While the new DLC anc chapter story stuff should stay under NDA for hype & surprises for obvious reasons. I still feel the NDA on balance, skill & mechanics issues should be just removed and more open discussion and culture should begin where the interaction would be felt again. Damn, i miss some of Wrobels comeback questions to some of class reps pain points notes. Some epic stuff was said.

I want that type of discussion back in the open. And group hugs.

No what im saying is the person who you are saying we need copies of quit the program. So we need copies of people who leave in frustration?

yodased

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I wouldn't want people from the top 1% who have an in-depth knowledge of how game mechanics work to give devs feedback on game mechanics anyway. That just sounds silly. The people with the most achievement points should be class reps.

This thinly veiled insult is objectively a bad idea. Top 1% don't need to know game mechanics they burn bosses before most of all them even show up

Being good at a thing doesnt mean you should be listened to. It doesnt mean you should not be listened to either, but too much stock is placed in these so called elite players.

Qbiken

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I wouldn't want people from the top 1% who have an in-depth knowledge of how game mechanics work to give devs feedback on game mechanics anyway. That just sounds silly. The people with the most achievement points should be class reps.

@ScottOfLibertalia for classrep

rfennell_ESO

I get why they used a NDA, I just don't get why they really think people that aren't salaried won't blab.

Back when they were having their meeting with the "big guilds" and were telling them things that weren't under a NDA, but were implied to keep quiet... well, that stuff was blabbed about like mad.

I'm sure the class reps, due to their names being out there, are inundated with people probing them for information. Reality is that every single class rep 100% violated the NDA to someone... be it there RL friends or long time groupies/guildies etc. I'd bet at least some of them used their access in trade for access to power groups or pvp hardcores... that's human nature.

The solution for ZOS would be to not put people in that position. Don't expose people to info that they would be inclined to divulge that ZOS doesn't want divulged and get rid of the NDA. It's not reasonable to think that enforcing a NDA is the same as keeping a secret.

Hashtag_

The names I’ve heard rumored as next round of reps will make everyone chuckle.

rfennell_ESO

Hashtag_ wrote: »

The names I’ve heard rumored as next round of reps will make everyone chuckle.

Probably not as much as the first round.

eso_lags

starkerealm wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

HOPEFULLY we can get a class rep that mainly plays on console, seeing as how it's 2/3rds of the available platforms to play on.
Why they didn't have console representatives from the start is mind blowing...

Because, in spite of claims that PC players have addons to, "play the game for them," the most knowledgeable players tend to be on PC. The same API access that console players deride also allow players to further examine and analyze what's happening in front of them.

There are very knowledgeable players on all platforms. With all opinions aside, I strongly believe a console rep is needed for too many reasons to list. Yes we cannot participate in PTS but we do have a large population that has plenty of feedback for ZOS to pick between.


Oh yeah...let me bow and kiss the ring of the almighty PC master race "Say thank you now"

I know some very knowledgeable players who came from, or still are, on console. That's not the point. The issue is that the game deliberately hides information from the player which can be seen if you're tracking info from the API. This isn't bashing anyone, simply put, console players have neither the access nor the tools to fully assess how the game behaves.

A player, on PC, who uses addons to learn more about how the game functions, will end up with more, comprehensive, knowledge of how the various mechanics work. I've met console ex-pats who were genuinely surprised to learn how XP was allocated to skill lines, didn't know that gear deterioration was tied to XP gain, and a number of other obtuse systems that the game only kinda explains, or never bothers to.

The other factor here is PTS access. Obviously, not every PC player gets on the PTS, or derps around there, but it does offer significant advantages for build prototyping builds, and experimenting with systems. It has a significant disadvantage in that you can't test things without accomplices, but, that's seriously outweighed when you can replicate your, "ideal build" on the spot and immediately test with it, rather than having to grind out weeks of advanced content to get the pieces you want to check.

It's not like this is some, "across the board," thing. There certainly are players on PC who follow builds, and Raid Notifier messages, without any thought, just like there are console players who've spent a lot of time digging through the available information. The difference is, it is significantly easier to build up that body of knowledge on PC, where you have the tools to see it in action as it happens, rather than it being something you had to read about.

Beyond that, the major issues that only affect the consoles are quality of life issues (which ZOS does know about, and is working on), and performance (which they're also aware of, but can't really fix overnight.) Leading to the point where a "console rep" couldn't really tell them anything they don't already know.

I think you over estimate how important those things, such as xp gain and gear deterioration, matter. Obviously PC players have access to tools that will give them more information to the game on a more intimate level but that doesnt mean that console players could not get more than enough of the information they need to be a class rep without having access to those tools. It might take a bit longer and take more testing but thats what people do in mmos.

And perspective is a huge thing. Its good to get a perspective of how the game is played on every platform. Especially considering 2/3 platforms are console. Someone from console could bring the differences up between PC and console, or offer some insight into how certain skills or classes play on console compared to PC. And some differences are HUGE. It would certainly be a bigger task, but thats no excuse if someone is willing. Again, console is a massive part of this community.

PC players could never understand the differences of playing on console unless they did themselves. Eso on console is the same game as eso on PC without all the nice QOL things and with worse performance.

Add ons, like you said, are a huge thing. So much so that playing without them would certainly give you a different perspective. Maybe even make you better at certain things than someone who relies on them. 2 keywords there. But regardless, so many players are not using add ons so why not get their perspective as well? How the game is played from their world. How things work from their world.

Your post makes you seem closed minded. It sounds like you are insinuating that console players could not compete with top PC players as it stands.. Sorry if Im mistaken, but it just comes off that way. Hopefully I'm wrong because in the end people are people. Some of us have spent years in this game learning it in and out. Both on PC and console, and I would say there are great players on every platform.

Yes PC players using add ons will have access to a bit more information a bit faster than console players, but that is no reason to not get the perspective of such a massive part of the community.

Anyway thats where we disagree.. Where we can agree is the PTS. That is the one thing I can say would make it a bit wasteful for any console player to be a class rep. However, there are plenty of us, myself included, who own the game on PC and console. I did it because I want to swap to PC one day, mainly because of how bad console performance is.. (and zos is working on console performance? Please show me where you read that)...

So its not out of the realm of possibility for zos to make it a requirement for any console class reps to own the game on PC as well. I know many console players that have the game on PC just for the PTS. And im sure that would cut the numbers down massively, but its better than no option at all. And from what I can tell, since console has zero class reps, we have no options at all. Something zos failed to mention.

But I hear the program is dead anyway so I guess this is a waste of time 😐

Sanguinor2

yodased wrote: »

This thinly veiled insult is objectively a bad idea. Top 1% don't need to know game mechanics they burn bosses before most of all them even show up

Being good at a thing doesnt mean you should be listened to. It doesnt mean you should not be listened to either, but too much stock is placed in these so called elite players.

Nah, top 1% figure out all the mechanics either on early release or on pts and some even make guides avaiable to everyone for them. They Need to know how mechanics work/when they start/what triggers them to decide if they are reasonably skippable or if they are better of doing them.

Moonsorrow

yodased wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

@moonsorrow very well written and thought out but ultimately way off reality.

Do some more research and look at it with objective eyes before you advocate for people

Looking at it very objectively.

But, i know realistically that with the current strict NDA, and to be comfortable and easy to ZOS, they will keep and pick people in to the program that are easy to work and communicate with, possibly even to the level that to outsider (generic forum angry person who wants something nerfed and something buffed) it seems they have collected just a group of "yes-men" that quietly agree on things at meetings while having a sip of tea and browsing social media instead of wanting to become known as a troublemaker who says what they really think.

That is what a strict NDA does make it look like. So atleast i wish that if nothing is shown to us in the future also, i`d be happy if the new class reps were not all "hardcore" but there are some in the mix that still have the new players experience of the game too as a reality or well in memory or that they are in contact of actual new players all the time. And who will say their opinions about things proudly.

And wanna also say that often i wish even ZOS people would take some risks and say their opinions, maybe even a joke on some forum topics. And when some bitter forum trolls would start their "how dare you joke about RRRRrrruining my favourite class with nerfff??" they could just reply with a laughing emote. They for sure could use some freedom of opinions and having a laugh with us too.

People take things too seriously. While the new DLC anc chapter story stuff should stay under NDA for hype & surprises for obvious reasons. I still feel the NDA on balance, skill & mechanics issues should be just removed and more open discussion and culture should begin where the interaction would be felt again. Damn, i miss some of Wrobels comeback questions to some of class reps pain points notes. Some epic stuff was said.

I want that type of discussion back in the open. And group hugs.

No what im saying is the person who you are saying we need copies of quit the program. So we need copies of people who leave in frustration?

Sort of yes, they would not quit if the whole program was built differently, be more open and they would feel they are allowed to have their opinions. Strict NDA builds frustrations because class reps end up being seen as scapegoats, meatshields, people to blame when something goes the wrong way for some interests. They do not get the thanks and respect for the effort they do for us all.

Same goes for the developers, in the end they are trying to build and maintain the game we love to play, yet people react to anything they say and do with biased rage and the "why u no communicate with us??!" when they do, but answering to each angry rant about certain issues daily is not a time well spent if there is not any news yet on a fix as an example. Like people blaming Gina when she answers to someone asking something about on Crown Store then some starts to spam angry messages about bugged LFG tool like it would be she who is there coding the new LFG tool/fix. I mean come on people.