What happend to the Class Rep Programm?

IonicKai

Heelie wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This thinly veiled insult is objectively a bad idea. Top 1% don't need to know game mechanics they burn bosses before most of all them even show up

Being good at a thing doesnt mean you should be listened to. It doesnt mean you should not be listened to either, but too much stock is placed in these so called elite players.

Nah, top 1% figure out all the mechanics either on early release or on pts and some even make guides avaiable to everyone for them. They Need to know how mechanics work/when they start/what triggers them to decide if they are reasonably skippable or if they are better of doing them.

Well i guess those people would be inclided in the 1% so im wrong to lump them all together vut it's more like .01% who figure it out and 1% who are taught them and then summarily ignore what they can.

My fault for that but it still stands that giving them more value for veing good is not the path that will create harmony

This is possible the dumbest response I have ever read in my life. You have no idea how the structure or progression of a top guild works, just shut up please. If there was a single person that was underperfoming by 15% in dps, or dying 5-6 time on average more than his peers, he would be kicked before the week was over.

You have no idea who I am or what I have done, but I appreciate your passion for end game raiding. I wasn't trying to insult you here, just stating that there are less than 1% of the players that actually figure things out.

Why you would take that as a personal insult I'm not sure, but again sorry for getting under your craw there.

Let me rephrase that answer:

The top .01% of this game is if you listen to what ZOS claims is 100,000 people. So those 10,000 people take the time and effort to figure out the hardest of mechanics and then that trickles into the rest of the game.

To listen to those 10,000 people about balance is not a way to create a harmonious experience.

If you balance a game around end game the effects will trickle down, this is simple game design 101. Of course things can't be too hard. And also the beginning levels needs content that is progressively harder. But combat design, which is mainly what the class rep program is supposed to be about, has to be designed with the end game in mind. The effects will trickle down to create a more harmonious combat design.This goes for trials as well, the newest "HM" content should be so hard that it's an engaging challenge for the top 0.001% of players. But eventually through experience as well as power creep the content becomes available to a wider range of players. This does not mean that casual content should not be made, it also does not mean that the normal mode as well as veteran mode should be made harder. But if you design the combat as well as the pve content around the average player. Then the sense if progression is totally lost. You would lose the majority of the veteran player base, this would create a brain drain in the community, and eventually lead to a massive player drought. We saw this with Murkmire where no one really had interest in the newest arena, massive amounts of veteran players left, several guilds disbanded, and a single guild took every leaderboard score. Not only that, several trial leaderboards had scores <40.000 at the end of the patch. This was not something we have seen before. This means not only did the top players not want to engage in pve content. The average saturday trial guild quit as well.

People can’t keep thinking that ThE EnD GAmE is a circle jerk of 12 people filled with self interest. The vast majority of players among the top guilds on each server, engage with the community in different ways. Some more than others. A good amount of the raiding guilds are lead by players from the top guilds. You have to remember as well that a good amount of them started somewhere, now some of them just had raw talent. But most had to work their way up. They have hundreds of hours wiping in the trials, they should have a pretty good idea of the pain points for most players.

Not to burst your bubble but a lot of people who quit in murkmire would have been better represented by not the best of the best. The new arena had absolutely brutal mechanics but no rewards worth anything. The patch was also dubbed Nerfmire with just how many sweeping nerfs they gave. Take a wild guess who got crippled by them. It wasn't the casual players and wasn't really the top of the top 1% who noticed only a small difference in DPS or just rolled a different class. It was the people on their way up the ranks who were progressing through getting better. Summerset was a step in the right direction in terms of feeling meaningful player growth for those that were working through getting better at the game. Wolfhunter had some cool changes for werewolves to make them interesting. Nerfmire but a lot of these players progress back to square one as they now could not sustain and were constantly dying in situations they didn't previously struggle that much with. I understand that there needs to be a skill ceiling and tuning but make no mistake the players trying to get to the top are the ones getting screwed and the ones that need some representation. Alcast does this or at least tries to with all of the guides and information he gathers but even then he is amongst the players least hurt by the nerfs when they come through.

Wifeaggro13

The class rep program lol. Look the bottom line is to fix combat in this game is going to require unwinding a crap load of bad decisions or decisions made on fiscal development. The game is so homogenized and dps focused unwinding their design would require a game overhaul . It would chase away people just on the basis of humans being inherently resistant to change. Even if the overhaul was a long term good thing. ZOS is not focused on long term they are in milk mode . All dlcs are the same thing over and over. Chapters are just landscape . No emergent game systems, progression is hidden in nerfs and changing dps metals as no other roles are really pertinent in PVE. Having class reps will only shine lights in the dirty corners of the design they would rather leave unseen.

starkerealm

I hate to say it, but @IonicKai has a valid point.

VaranisArano

IonicKai wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This thinly veiled insult is objectively a bad idea. Top 1% don't need to know game mechanics they burn bosses before most of all them even show up

Being good at a thing doesnt mean you should be listened to. It doesnt mean you should not be listened to either, but too much stock is placed in these so called elite players.

Nah, top 1% figure out all the mechanics either on early release or on pts and some even make guides avaiable to everyone for them. They Need to know how mechanics work/when they start/what triggers them to decide if they are reasonably skippable or if they are better of doing them.

Well i guess those people would be inclided in the 1% so im wrong to lump them all together vut it's more like .01% who figure it out and 1% who are taught them and then summarily ignore what they can.

My fault for that but it still stands that giving them more value for veing good is not the path that will create harmony

This is possible the dumbest response I have ever read in my life. You have no idea how the structure or progression of a top guild works, just shut up please. If there was a single person that was underperfoming by 15% in dps, or dying 5-6 time on average more than his peers, he would be kicked before the week was over.

You have no idea who I am or what I have done, but I appreciate your passion for end game raiding. I wasn't trying to insult you here, just stating that there are less than 1% of the players that actually figure things out.

Why you would take that as a personal insult I'm not sure, but again sorry for getting under your craw there.

Let me rephrase that answer:

The top .01% of this game is if you listen to what ZOS claims is 100,000 people. So those 10,000 people take the time and effort to figure out the hardest of mechanics and then that trickles into the rest of the game.

To listen to those 10,000 people about balance is not a way to create a harmonious experience.

If you balance a game around end game the effects will trickle down, this is simple game design 101. Of course things can't be too hard. And also the beginning levels needs content that is progressively harder. But combat design, which is mainly what the class rep program is supposed to be about, has to be designed with the end game in mind. The effects will trickle down to create a more harmonious combat design.This goes for trials as well, the newest "HM" content should be so hard that it's an engaging challenge for the top 0.001% of players. But eventually through experience as well as power creep the content becomes available to a wider range of players. This does not mean that casual content should not be made, it also does not mean that the normal mode as well as veteran mode should be made harder. But if you design the combat as well as the pve content around the average player. Then the sense if progression is totally lost. You would lose the majority of the veteran player base, this would create a brain drain in the community, and eventually lead to a massive player drought. We saw this with Murkmire where no one really had interest in the newest arena, massive amounts of veteran players left, several guilds disbanded, and a single guild took every leaderboard score. Not only that, several trial leaderboards had scores <40.000 at the end of the patch. This was not something we have seen before. This means not only did the top players not want to engage in pve content. The average saturday trial guild quit as well.

People can’t keep thinking that ThE EnD GAmE is a circle jerk of 12 people filled with self interest. The vast majority of players among the top guilds on each server, engage with the community in different ways. Some more than others. A good amount of the raiding guilds are lead by players from the top guilds. You have to remember as well that a good amount of them started somewhere, now some of them just had raw talent. But most had to work their way up. They have hundreds of hours wiping in the trials, they should have a pretty good idea of the pain points for most players.

Not to burst your bubble but a lot of people who quit in murkmire would have been better represented by not the best of the best. The new arena had absolutely brutal mechanics but no rewards worth anything. The patch was also dubbed Nerfmire with just how many sweeping nerfs they gave. Take a wild guess who got crippled by them. It wasn't the casual players and wasn't really the top of the top 1% who noticed only a small difference in DPS or just rolled a different class. It was the people on their way up the ranks who were progressing through getting better. Summerset was a step in the right direction in terms of feeling meaningful player growth for those that were working through getting better at the game. Wolfhunter had some cool changes for werewolves to make them interesting. Nerfmire but a lot of these players progress back to square one as they now could not sustain and were constantly dying in situations they didn't previously struggle that much with. I understand that there needs to be a skill ceiling and tuning but make no mistake the players trying to get to the top are the ones getting screwed and the ones that need some representation. Alcast does this or at least tries to with all of the guides and information he gathers but even then he is amongst the players least hurt by the nerfs when they come through.

I'm not entirely sure where you are seeing that Nerfmire was a problem with what the reps did.

From the meeting notes we have, the reps didn't suggest or even agree with the major nerfs. And they accurately described the player pain points with the initial nerfs and the ones that went Live.

In fact, Nerfmire was the update after which ZOS made it very clear that the class reps might advise, but its the Devs that call the shots.

IonicKai

VaranisArano wrote: »

IonicKai wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This thinly veiled insult is objectively a bad idea. Top 1% don't need to know game mechanics they burn bosses before most of all them even show up

Being good at a thing doesnt mean you should be listened to. It doesnt mean you should not be listened to either, but too much stock is placed in these so called elite players.

Nah, top 1% figure out all the mechanics either on early release or on pts and some even make guides avaiable to everyone for them. They Need to know how mechanics work/when they start/what triggers them to decide if they are reasonably skippable or if they are better of doing them.

Well i guess those people would be inclided in the 1% so im wrong to lump them all together vut it's more like .01% who figure it out and 1% who are taught them and then summarily ignore what they can.

My fault for that but it still stands that giving them more value for veing good is not the path that will create harmony

This is possible the dumbest response I have ever read in my life. You have no idea how the structure or progression of a top guild works, just shut up please. If there was a single person that was underperfoming by 15% in dps, or dying 5-6 time on average more than his peers, he would be kicked before the week was over.

You have no idea who I am or what I have done, but I appreciate your passion for end game raiding. I wasn't trying to insult you here, just stating that there are less than 1% of the players that actually figure things out.

Why you would take that as a personal insult I'm not sure, but again sorry for getting under your craw there.

Let me rephrase that answer:

The top .01% of this game is if you listen to what ZOS claims is 100,000 people. So those 10,000 people take the time and effort to figure out the hardest of mechanics and then that trickles into the rest of the game.

To listen to those 10,000 people about balance is not a way to create a harmonious experience.

If you balance a game around end game the effects will trickle down, this is simple game design 101. Of course things can't be too hard. And also the beginning levels needs content that is progressively harder. But combat design, which is mainly what the class rep program is supposed to be about, has to be designed with the end game in mind. The effects will trickle down to create a more harmonious combat design.This goes for trials as well, the newest "HM" content should be so hard that it's an engaging challenge for the top 0.001% of players. But eventually through experience as well as power creep the content becomes available to a wider range of players. This does not mean that casual content should not be made, it also does not mean that the normal mode as well as veteran mode should be made harder. But if you design the combat as well as the pve content around the average player. Then the sense if progression is totally lost. You would lose the majority of the veteran player base, this would create a brain drain in the community, and eventually lead to a massive player drought. We saw this with Murkmire where no one really had interest in the newest arena, massive amounts of veteran players left, several guilds disbanded, and a single guild took every leaderboard score. Not only that, several trial leaderboards had scores <40.000 at the end of the patch. This was not something we have seen before. This means not only did the top players not want to engage in pve content. The average saturday trial guild quit as well.

People can’t keep thinking that ThE EnD GAmE is a circle jerk of 12 people filled with self interest. The vast majority of players among the top guilds on each server, engage with the community in different ways. Some more than others. A good amount of the raiding guilds are lead by players from the top guilds. You have to remember as well that a good amount of them started somewhere, now some of them just had raw talent. But most had to work their way up. They have hundreds of hours wiping in the trials, they should have a pretty good idea of the pain points for most players.

Not to burst your bubble but a lot of people who quit in murkmire would have been better represented by not the best of the best. The new arena had absolutely brutal mechanics but no rewards worth anything. The patch was also dubbed Nerfmire with just how many sweeping nerfs they gave. Take a wild guess who got crippled by them. It wasn't the casual players and wasn't really the top of the top 1% who noticed only a small difference in DPS or just rolled a different class. It was the people on their way up the ranks who were progressing through getting better. Summerset was a step in the right direction in terms of feeling meaningful player growth for those that were working through getting better at the game. Wolfhunter had some cool changes for werewolves to make them interesting. Nerfmire but a lot of these players progress back to square one as they now could not sustain and were constantly dying in situations they didn't previously struggle that much with. I understand that there needs to be a skill ceiling and tuning but make no mistake the players trying to get to the top are the ones getting screwed and the ones that need some representation. Alcast does this or at least tries to with all of the guides and information he gathers but even then he is amongst the players least hurt by the nerfs when they come through.

I'm not entirely sure where you are seeing that Nerfmire was a problem with what the reps did.

From the meeting notes we have, the reps didn't suggest or even agree with the major nerfs. And they accurately described the player pain points with the initial nerfs and the ones that went Live.

In fact, Nerfmire was the update after which ZOS made it very clear that the class reps might advise, but its the Devs that call the shots.

My post was not about the reps. I do not think Nerfmire was their fault at all I was just pointing out to Heelie why so many people left during Murkmire. The class reps were in the right during Murkmire but the devs already had their plans and didn't want to yield on most of there decisions despite them being terrible for most players even though the goal was to lower the ceiling (it barely did). The biggest thing Nerfmire accomplished was breaking the argument that mag had more survivability by putting the shields in such a bad spot they almost aren't worth the magic it costs at all. It was maybe slightly overtuned but they shoved it into the ground so now the only advantage to being mag is that you can keep up your attacks at range which plays well in high mobility (vCR and vAS).

VaranisArano

IonicKai wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

IonicKai wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

This thinly veiled insult is objectively a bad idea. Top 1% don't need to know game mechanics they burn bosses before most of all them even show up

Being good at a thing doesnt mean you should be listened to. It doesnt mean you should not be listened to either, but too much stock is placed in these so called elite players.

Nah, top 1% figure out all the mechanics either on early release or on pts and some even make guides avaiable to everyone for them. They Need to know how mechanics work/when they start/what triggers them to decide if they are reasonably skippable or if they are better of doing them.

Well i guess those people would be inclided in the 1% so im wrong to lump them all together vut it's more like .01% who figure it out and 1% who are taught them and then summarily ignore what they can.

My fault for that but it still stands that giving them more value for veing good is not the path that will create harmony

This is possible the dumbest response I have ever read in my life. You have no idea how the structure or progression of a top guild works, just shut up please. If there was a single person that was underperfoming by 15% in dps, or dying 5-6 time on average more than his peers, he would be kicked before the week was over.

You have no idea who I am or what I have done, but I appreciate your passion for end game raiding. I wasn't trying to insult you here, just stating that there are less than 1% of the players that actually figure things out.

Why you would take that as a personal insult I'm not sure, but again sorry for getting under your craw there.

Let me rephrase that answer:

The top .01% of this game is if you listen to what ZOS claims is 100,000 people. So those 10,000 people take the time and effort to figure out the hardest of mechanics and then that trickles into the rest of the game.

To listen to those 10,000 people about balance is not a way to create a harmonious experience.

If you balance a game around end game the effects will trickle down, this is simple game design 101. Of course things can't be too hard. And also the beginning levels needs content that is progressively harder. But combat design, which is mainly what the class rep program is supposed to be about, has to be designed with the end game in mind. The effects will trickle down to create a more harmonious combat design.This goes for trials as well, the newest "HM" content should be so hard that it's an engaging challenge for the top 0.001% of players. But eventually through experience as well as power creep the content becomes available to a wider range of players. This does not mean that casual content should not be made, it also does not mean that the normal mode as well as veteran mode should be made harder. But if you design the combat as well as the pve content around the average player. Then the sense if progression is totally lost. You would lose the majority of the veteran player base, this would create a brain drain in the community, and eventually lead to a massive player drought. We saw this with Murkmire where no one really had interest in the newest arena, massive amounts of veteran players left, several guilds disbanded, and a single guild took every leaderboard score. Not only that, several trial leaderboards had scores <40.000 at the end of the patch. This was not something we have seen before. This means not only did the top players not want to engage in pve content. The average saturday trial guild quit as well.

People can’t keep thinking that ThE EnD GAmE is a circle jerk of 12 people filled with self interest. The vast majority of players among the top guilds on each server, engage with the community in different ways. Some more than others. A good amount of the raiding guilds are lead by players from the top guilds. You have to remember as well that a good amount of them started somewhere, now some of them just had raw talent. But most had to work their way up. They have hundreds of hours wiping in the trials, they should have a pretty good idea of the pain points for most players.

Not to burst your bubble but a lot of people who quit in murkmire would have been better represented by not the best of the best. The new arena had absolutely brutal mechanics but no rewards worth anything. The patch was also dubbed Nerfmire with just how many sweeping nerfs they gave. Take a wild guess who got crippled by them. It wasn't the casual players and wasn't really the top of the top 1% who noticed only a small difference in DPS or just rolled a different class. It was the people on their way up the ranks who were progressing through getting better. Summerset was a step in the right direction in terms of feeling meaningful player growth for those that were working through getting better at the game. Wolfhunter had some cool changes for werewolves to make them interesting. Nerfmire but a lot of these players progress back to square one as they now could not sustain and were constantly dying in situations they didn't previously struggle that much with. I understand that there needs to be a skill ceiling and tuning but make no mistake the players trying to get to the top are the ones getting screwed and the ones that need some representation. Alcast does this or at least tries to with all of the guides and information he gathers but even then he is amongst the players least hurt by the nerfs when they come through.

I'm not entirely sure where you are seeing that Nerfmire was a problem with what the reps did.

From the meeting notes we have, the reps didn't suggest or even agree with the major nerfs. And they accurately described the player pain points with the initial nerfs and the ones that went Live.

In fact, Nerfmire was the update after which ZOS made it very clear that the class reps might advise, but its the Devs that call the shots.

My post was not about the reps. I do not think Nerfmire was their fault at all I was just pointing out to Heelie why so many people left during Murkmire. The class reps were in the right during Murkmire but the devs already had their plans and didn't want to yield on most of there decisions despite them being terrible for most players even though the goal was to lower the ceiling (it barely did). The biggest thing Nerfmire accomplished was breaking the argument that mag had more survivability by putting the shields in such a bad spot they almost aren't worth the magic it costs at all. It was maybe slightly overtuned but they shoved it into the ground so now the only advantage to being mag is that you can keep up your attacks at range which plays well in high mobility (vCR and vAS).

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying!

eso_lags

I think they should honestly scrap the whole thing and start over. I think the system would have been better off with more people than 12 to begin with. Something like 30 people maybe. Players from all parts of the game. I've seen people talk about role players and what their input would matter, since many do not take part in any competitive aspect of the game, but I think casual input should matter. Long term players, who have some experience in a specific class or role, who stick to the more casual side of the game.

Of course when doing balance I think more competitive players will have more knowledge about their class and role, in many cases, but I would think the majority of players are casual so they should have some sort of voice. And zos should stop excluding console and PVP. I know none of the reps were from console, except for one from PS4 who went to PC (apparently). And as far as i could tell there were no pvp mains as reps. Idk why they would exclude pvp players and console players but it seems like they did for the most part..

At the very least its severely disproportionate. Sure ive seen someone like alcast pvp but mainly everything I see from him is pve related. Same goes for many of the reps, I looked into some of their forum accounts (at least the ones I could find back then, I could not find all of them) and didnt find any pvp posts. Just pve issues. But thats not to say there werent any, I know for example kenapk was a rep and im pretty sure he/she was big into pvp, or so I heard, but it just seemed like many more reps were doing pve as their main thing in the game. With little or no pvp.

This wont help things. And thats why I think they need more players. They need some players for each class that do pvp and some that do pve. Something like 2 end game pve'rs, 2 endgame pvp'ers, and 1 casual for each class. And in that bunch maybe throw in 1 console player for each class. 3 console pvp players, and 3 console pve players. Im not saying this is the answer, and maybe they would run into more problems with more people, but i just think it would be more helpful with more people doing it.

But at the end of the day, with the way zenimax is, the system will never work. Class reps will get grief for zos' mistakes and im sure they wont like that. The system doesnt work if zos isnt willing to listen to them, and it honestly seems like a show of good faith that isnt real. Something to make it look like zos is listening to the community when they are not.

And class reps are just normal players at the end of the day so they are going to get mad, just as we do, with how zos treats the game. Years of the same issues with no end in sight, that probably causes issues between zos and the reps too.

Pevey

I agree there should be some reps to represent casual/newer/just-plain-mediocre players. The one person they had speaking up for that group was run out of the program, mostly by one other rep with an agenda (nerf mag shields).

Hotdog_23

The class rep program sounds really like a program ZOS uses for customer feedback from a select group of people they choose. Thus the NDA. They really are not general player’s reps.

I agree with the closing of the discard as it is not official content. Which I wish they would do on the official forums instead. I have said it before and I will say again I wish ZOS would open a new thread and ask us the general players the same questions they ask the class reps. Sure you will get a lot of BS but you will get some genuine good answers as well. A new thread for each question. I don’t really care if they provide any other feedback in the thread as long as they read them at least weekly to find some good suggestions or discussion on the topic and not just selected opinions they want to hear (class reps).

As a console player it is concerning that no one in the program is a console player. We are starting to see some good and positive changes that helps consoles a lot added to the base game such as guild store search and the soon to be mass creation and refining of material. That is not an issue on PC from what I read. I believe with some ZOS employee’s starting to play on console they are seeing some of the pain we have to deal with and making much needed/helpful changes.

{Please fix the buff/debuff tracker next}

In short we need to no longer think of them as reps but selective customer feedback for ZOS.

pattyLtd

It’s pretty dead i believe.
Havent got a decent update it in a long time, the NDA *** has totally rendered it useless imho and very valuable classreps have not only lost the role but even got bamned from the game.

- Tasear out (long time now but still relevant as i think she took it very serious and kept communicating with us), banned even now.
- Checkmath, same as above
- Joydivision out, arguably the most represantative of all of them.

I am bit surprised tbh with how zenimax handles things, all the closing of threads, banning people, etc.
It all feels so immature to me and its a million dollar company lmfao.

Numerikuu

I feel for the reps that poured their heart and soul into data gathering and testing etc, but at the same time... this was coming. It was coming the moment the programme was announced lol. They were nothing but a starry-eyed, eager, free resource to be used. Now they've served their use, they'll be tossed to the wayside, just like the ones before them.

Emma_Overload

Why are people getting "banned"? What could they possibly do on the forums to justify a ban?

Are you guys sure they didn't just rage-quit?

paulsimonps

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why are people getting "banned"? What could they possibly do on the forums to justify a ban?

Are you guys sure they didn't just rage-quit?

Well at the very least they are banned on the forums, those that were. Easy enough to check, search their names and go to their profile.

VileNord

Well there are those "leaked patch notes" floating around. It's all speculation and conspiracy as anyone who actually knows what is going on isn't allowed to say anything. ZOS certainly isn't gonna make a public statement.

pattyLtd

So they leaked patch notes, big *** deal.
All this NDA does is make things seem important that are not, why so secretive?

I dont know about this, maybe she went bit overboard by the sounds of it, not sure if banning was necessary though.

The chick went nuts like an ex girlfriend and accused ZOS of veing sexist in a 10 page rant.

yodased

pattyLtd wrote: »

So they leaked patch notes, big *** deal.
All this NDA does is make things seem important that are not, why so secretive?

I dont know about this, maybe she went bit overboard by the sounds of it, not sure if banning was necessary though.

The chick went nuts like an ex girlfriend and accused ZOS of veing sexist in a 10 page rant.

Hey I didn't ban them. Also @pevey before you start accusing people of sexism you know that the reps had to apply right?

Do you know how many females applied for the position?

pattyLtd

Huh, where did i accuse anyone of anything?

yodased

pattyLtd wrote: »

Huh, where did i accuse anyone of anything?

That was my fault, I hit the wrong p person, have edited.

@pattyltd sorry my friend, just me being dumb

anitajoneb17_ESO

pattyLtd wrote: »

So they leaked patch notes, big *** deal.
All this NDA does is make things seem important that are not, why so secretive?

I dont know about this, maybe she went bit overboard by the sounds of it, not sure if banning was necessary though.

The chick went nuts like an ex girlfriend and accused ZOS of veing sexist in a 10 page rant.

Don't get everything mixed up/
@Tasear , herein referred to as "the chick", wasn't banned because of her rant.
She used to be a class rep, then got dismissed from the programme (ZOS decision). This caused her to write a long rant here on the forums - but that got blocked and deleted pretty quick. Whether it could be described as "going nuts like an ex-girlfriend" is debatable (and I don't like that description at all, no matter what). Anyway, her thread got deleted with no further consequences for her.
After that, ZOS offered her the title/role of "community ambassador", which is unclear whether she accepted, then refused, or first refused, then accepted, but as a matter of fact, she's been posting here positively, nicely and constructively for quite a while (a few months).
I don't know why she's now "banned", but it sure is unrelated to her initial "rant". Something else must have happened.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Heelie wrote: »

Also way less of the general population is female.

You don't know that at all. Or if you do, I'd like to know how.

yodased

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

So they leaked patch notes, big *** deal.
All this NDA does is make things seem important that are not, why so secretive?

I dont know about this, maybe she went bit overboard by the sounds of it, not sure if banning was necessary though.

The chick went nuts like an ex girlfriend and accused ZOS of veing sexist in a 10 page rant.

Don't get everything mixed up/
@Tasear , herein referred to as "the chick", wasn't banned because of her rant.
She used to be a class rep, then got dismissed from the programme (ZOS decision). This caused her to write a long rant here on the forums - but that got blocked and deleted pretty quick. Whether it could be described as "going nuts like an ex-girlfriend" is debatable (and I don't like that description at all, no matter what). Anyway, her thread got deleted with no further consequences for her.
After that, ZOS offered her the title/role of "community ambassador", which is unclear whether she accepted, then refused, or first refused, then accepted, but as a matter of fact, she's been posting here positively, nicely and constructively for quite a while (a few months).
I don't know why she's now "banned", but it sure is unrelated to her initial "rant". Something else must have happened.

Ok so I wasn't trying to write a evisceration of or a dissertation on the history of the class reps, nor was I actually looking to be taken seriously.

I would hope from the tone you can understand the difference between malice and humor, but in case it wasn't clear I guess I should have made a joke about the guy dropping the NDA like a fish in prison?

anitajoneb17_ESO

yodased wrote: »

I would hope from the tone you can understand the difference between malice and humor,

LoL the problem is that the two are usually tightly knit together :-)
Your description "rant like an ex-girlfriend" is imho accurate (I read that rant back then) and funny, but also not very nice to the person in question. It's all-in-one :-)

I just wanted to set the Tasear "story" as straight as I could. I don't know about Checkmath since I haven't followed it at all.
And As it looks, @Joy_Division hasn't been banned at all from the forum, but was excluded from the class rep programme for having explained some of ZOS visions for combat, which was interpreted by ZOS as NDA-breach. A coin always has two sides and it's hard to tell right from wrong - especially for us outsiders

pattyLtd

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

So they leaked patch notes, big *** deal.
All this NDA does is make things seem important that are not, why so secretive?

I dont know about this, maybe she went bit overboard by the sounds of it, not sure if banning was necessary though.

The chick went nuts like an ex girlfriend and accused ZOS of veing sexist in a 10 page rant.

Don't get everything mixed up/
@Tasear , herein referred to as "the chick", wasn't banned because of her rant.
She used to be a class rep, then got dismissed from the programme (ZOS decision). This caused her to write a long rant here on the forums - but that got blocked and deleted pretty quick. Whether it could be described as "going nuts like an ex-girlfriend" is debatable (and I don't like that description at all, no matter what). Anyway, her thread got deleted with no further consequences for her.
After that, ZOS offered her the title/role of "community ambassador", which is unclear whether she accepted, then refused, or first refused, then accepted, but as a matter of fact, she's been posting here positively, nicely and constructively for quite a while (a few months).
I don't know why she's now "banned", but it sure is unrelated to her initial "rant". Something else must have happened.

Hmmm, i do remember thát and figured their was new rant maybe that might have led to her ban, no idea.

Seraphayel

It’s sad that the rep program is plagued by all this stuff (and NDA breaches on top of that). I can’t blame if ZOS gets more restrictive or just abandons the entire program because of all the drama.

CipherNine

lol The Class Rep program is pointless. ZOS don't listen to them at all anyway. It's just a superficial title at best. Might as well just call it an honorary title that ZOS gives to known people in the community.

Joy_Division

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

I would hope from the tone you can understand the difference between malice and humor,

LoL the problem is that the two are usually tightly knit together :-)
Your description "rant like an ex-girlfriend" is imho accurate (I read that rant back then) and funny, but also not very nice to the person in question. It's all-in-one :-)

I just wanted to set the Tasear "story" as straight as I could. I don't know about Checkmath since I haven't followed it at all.
And As it looks, @Joy_Division hasn't been banned at all from the forum, but was excluded from the class rep programme for having explained some of ZOS visions for combat, which was interpreted by ZOS as NDA-breach. A coin always has two sides and it's hard to tell right from wrong - especially for us outsiders

I'm still here, just not with the Rep program. Yes, I explained ZOS's reasoning for Pummeling Goliath (because we have not had any meetings or any planned), which was interpreted as NDA breech. I don't have any hard feelings. I just disliked how much less communication was going on with the program, which was I thought the entire purpose of it in the first place. Maybe things will change. I don;t know.

Masel

VaranisArano wrote: »

From the last thread, we were told by one of the Reps that the 6 new ones are getting chose/brought in after all the applications they asked for a while back AND they havemt been able to releaae notes for the meetings they are having because its future development stuff covered by the NDA.

Unfortunately, "no notes because of NDA" looks an awful lot like "nothing is happening" from the perspective of players not in the program. At least with the old notes, we players had a much better idea of what the class reps were doing for us and for the Devs.

The problem is actually that we spent a year telling them pain points... then I made a list of which ones were actually addressed, and 80% are still unresolved.

So yeah we've been kind of cutting our effort back a little bit, because theres no point flooding them with the same pain points all over again.

That's only one part though. We have been talking a lot of stuff that's under NDA, and since the pain point part has been reduced to the minimum on our side, we couldn't really post notes of meetings anymore. At this point, were pretty much waiting for them to complete their ability audit so we can get to the real class pain points. We got frustrated because it all takes so long and had a few disputes with ZoS because of that.

Then also, ZoS has been fairly quiet lately for reasons I cannot get into here.

GrumpyDuckling

Masel wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

From the last thread, we were told by one of the Reps that the 6 new ones are getting chose/brought in after all the applications they asked for a while back AND they havemt been able to releaae notes for the meetings they are having because its future development stuff covered by the NDA.

Unfortunately, "no notes because of NDA" looks an awful lot like "nothing is happening" from the perspective of players not in the program. At least with the old notes, we players had a much better idea of what the class reps were doing for us and for the Devs.

Then also, ZoS has been fairly quiet lately for reasons I cannot get into here.

Really curious as to what this is all about.

VaranisArano

Masel wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

From the last thread, we were told by one of the Reps that the 6 new ones are getting chose/brought in after all the applications they asked for a while back AND they havemt been able to releaae notes for the meetings they are having because its future development stuff covered by the NDA.

Unfortunately, "no notes because of NDA" looks an awful lot like "nothing is happening" from the perspective of players not in the program. At least with the old notes, we players had a much better idea of what the class reps were doing for us and for the Devs.

The problem is actually that we spent a year telling them pain points... then I made a list of which ones were actually addressed, and 80% are still unresolved.

So yeah we've been kind of cutting our effort back a little bit, because theres no point flooding them with the same pain points all over again.

That's only one part though. We have been talking a lot of stuff that's under NDA, and since the pain point part has been reduced to the minimum on our side, we couldn't really post notes of meetings anymore. At this point, were pretty much waiting for them to complete their ability audit so we can get to the real class pain points. We got frustrated because it all takes so long and had a few disputes with ZoS because of that.

Then also, ZoS has been fairly quiet lately for reasons I cannot get into here.

Thanks for the update! Its great to know that the Reps and Devs are communicating (or waiting on the audit) in some fashion, even though we obviously can't know any of the specifics.

That does a lot to help reassure me that the program isn't as dead or useless as many here have claimed and I hope that ZOS and the Reps are able to continue to provide even short little updates like yours!

angeleda

The answer to your question: