Twilight Matriarch is overperforming

Pelican

MUST........ NERF........ SORC........

Betty_Booms

So I took my sorc into cyro today and realised just how bad matriach is in open world.

It dies super fast. And you have not got time generally for the recast under pressue.

Ive come to the conclussuon anything other then 1v1 its pretty bad.

Im actually going to build petless for cyro from now on...

Ozazz

sharquez wrote: »

In a world of 30k every half second necrobashes, we still want to nerf sorc... SMH

Tax the rich until their poor, tax the poor until their oppressed. Story of the sorcs existence!

Perashim

How about this: Matriarch does 15% less damage and Tormentor gets a burst damage skill instead of that worthless buff it gets atm?

Here's a different option: Turn the Tormentor into a Daedroth and have it's ability be a fire breath attack that hits in a large cone for a couple seconds.

Ozazz

how about magika classes get a burst heal that gives us major Sorcery! you know kind of like rally seeing how they've ruined healing on Sorc/mgk Blade

usmcjdking

Ozazz wrote: »

how about magika classes get a burst heal that gives us major Sorcery! you know kind of like rally seeing how they've ruined healing on Sorc/mgk Blade

I agree, this is a phenomenal idea. Make sure to reduce the twilight heal tooltip to 2k and then have it scale up 50% every 2 seconds since it's last use to reach it's full 10k heal every 20 seconds.

Katlefiya

How about keep Matriach as it is, but let it morph to tormentor on the back bar?


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Ok ok, i kid.

Katlefiya

Actually, the longer I think about this idea... the more I like it.

Let's make the Twilight be both:

• Front bar: Tormentor, maybe buffed
• Back bar: Matriarch, maybe with nerfed damage (or no damage at all)
• Morph: Give it a stamina morph instead

Jabbs_Giggity

To everyone complaining about Sorc Pets being required to double bar...why not just complain to make it a single bar slot that carries over? Shade carries, Netch carries, Skeletal Mage carries. Once this is done the skill can be reworked to morph for heal or morph for damage.

Case closed. This skill is rediculous...you can heal for as much as a BoL or Coag at a much lower cost, provides free damage and can be used to crutch on as a mobile LoS...

Itzmichi

Yeah nerf sorcs, or whatsoever.

WrathOfInnos

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Case closed. This skill is rediculous...you can heal for as much as a BoL or Coag at a much lower cost

People keep saying that, but Coagulating and Breath (primary heal) can both heal for more than the Matriarch on builds using the same gear. The only advantage is that Matriarch heals 2 people without needing to face them.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

provides free damage

If it has costs, it’s really not free. Bar space, doubling Curse casts to use Prey, and 3.6k Magicka with a slow summoning animation every time it dies.

AcadianPaladin

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Case closed. This skill is rediculous...you can heal for as much as a BoL or Coag at a much lower cost, provides free damage and can be used to crutch on as a mobile LoS...

I would happily agree to seeing a buff to BoL - oh, like make it omnidirectional again. My templar healer slots BoL but if pressed, it is absolutely the first skill she'd drop if she had to drop a skill. And for Coag how about healing both caster and an ally? Matriarch is a good skill so why drag it down to the level of inferior skills instead of improving the inferior skills?

Betty_Booms

Also BOL and Coag are balanced relative to class passives...

TheNightflame

yeah, matriarch is already the superior heal (stronger healing output), deals damage, and is omni directional. Granted, this is at the cost of 2 skill slots, but giving BoL one of those things (ideally omni directional again) would be amaz

ZonasArch

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

To everyone complaining about Sorc Pets being required to double bar...why not just complain to make it a single bar slot that carries over? Shade carries, Netch carries, Skeletal Mage carries. Once this is done the skill can be reworked to morph for heal or morph for damage.

Case closed. This skill is rediculous...you can heal for as much as a BoL or Coag at a much lower cost, provides free damage and can be used to crutch on as a mobile LoS...

Except you can't command those summons, and you can the spec pets. Also, much lower cost? Did they change the cost? Back when I played this, it used to be so expensive.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Boost tormantor damage by a lot
Reduce matriarch damage a little but boost its heal as a trade off

Win win situation

ll_Rev

Betty_Booms wrote: »

So I took my sorc into cyro today and realised just how bad matriach is in open world.

It dies super fast. And you have not got time generally for the recast under pressue.

Ive come to the conclussuon anything other then 1v1 its pretty bad.

Im actually going to build petless for cyro from now on...

any time I've seen you in a battleground or anything else you're running pets, why lie?

TheYKcid

ll_Rev wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

So I took my sorc into cyro today and realised just how bad matriach is in open world.

It dies super fast. And you have not got time generally for the recast under pressue.

Ive come to the conclussuon anything other then 1v1 its pretty bad.

Im actually going to build petless for cyro from now on...

any time I've seen you in a battleground or anything else you're running pets, why lie?

Gotta misdirect the devs so they don't nerf the crutches.

TheYKcid

The two-slot argument is atrociously poor, and anyone who uses or accepts it is either bad or very, very dishonest.

One slot is accounted for by the burst heal, I'll grant that. So let's look at what the 2nd slot provides:

-free LoS
-stronger DoT than Rending Slashes
-even when Rending is buffed by Master's dual wield, which requires you to slot an additional 2pc set
-completely automatic, requiring no GCD nor resource expenditure by the user

Please enlighten us on how many other skills offer that much benefit in a single slot. It's 2019 and we're still dying to hear.

AcadianPaladin

Well, Blue Betty is free, takes one slot, provides major sorcery, restores magicka, provides a purge. Just sayin'. I don't want to see Matriarch or Betty nerfed; rather, I'd like to see more skills that so nicely earn valuable slot space in our limited number of skill slots. Skills that do multiple functions (like Surge, Channeled Focus and EleDrain also) are tops in my book.

Delparis

One more reason why sorc is an overpowered class.

• Best mobility
• Best damage
• Best excecute
• Best control
• Best defense (shields)
• Best heal (matriarch)

Emma_Overload

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Boost tormantor damage by a lot
Reduce matriarch damage a little but boost its heal as a trade off

Win win situation

I'd be fine with this, but I can assure you this is not what the nerf-herders want.

Witar

Matriarch doen't heal that much on my sorc. I'm running classic necro/shackle+lich backbar+dsa master staff+pirate skeleton build and getting 5k (10k crit) heals out of it (same as templars heal, might be slightly less). Feels like autor is exaggerating quite a lot.
As for pve - martiarh is quite nice in solo pve like msa it deals decent damage and have some heals. If you will remove the damage part martiarh will be only used on healers (not that much healers among sorcs lol).

Delparis

look at those damage in BG

Overpowered skill

xAcrania

Sorc nerf l o l

WrathOfInnos

TheYKcid wrote: »

The two-slot argument is atrociously poor, and anyone who uses or accepts it is either bad or very, very dishonest.

One slot is accounted for by the burst heal, I'll grant that. So let's look at what the 2nd slot provides:

-free LoS
-stronger DoT than Rending Slashes
-even when Rending is buffed by Master's dual wield, which requires you to slot an additional 2pc set
-completely automatic, requiring no GCD nor resource expenditure by the user

Please enlighten us on how many other skills offer that much benefit in a single slot. It's 2019 and we're still dying to hear.

Twilight Matriarch is not a stronger DoT than Rending Slashes. Looking at some PVE trials logs on Yolnakriin for a fairly controlled comparison, Rending Slashes does about 4.3k DPS while Twilight Matriarch is around 3.7k DPS without Daedric Prey (the only way it meets your claim about being completely automatic). Nobody involved was using Master’s Dual Wield, so Rending would only scale up from there. Additionally, Rending is bleed damage and ignores armor, which makes it more valuable in PVP, the Twilight does not get this benefit.

Even using Rending Slashes as a comparison is flawed argument, since Rending is known to be one of the weakest DoTs available to Stamina DPS and is from a weapon skill line. For comparing a class-based single target DoT, something like Venomous Claw would be a better example, and that typically deals about 20% more damage than Rending Slashes, or 40% more than a Twilight Matriarch (again without Daedric Prey). Interestingly if you were to then apply the Daedric Prey effect, the single target Matriarch DoT that now requires casting a skill every 6s (or one more GCD and resources spent for Curse every 12s) becomes very similar in damage to Venomous Claw which requires casting every 10s. Both effectively take up one skill slot for the damage portion (if we’re considering the 2nd slot for Matriarch to be the heal).

As for the free LoS, I don’t care about that at all. Seems cheesy to hide behind a pet IMO. May as well remove it if that’s the biggest complaint, but how would this work mechanically? Just make pets not targetable in PVP like they are in trials and dungeons? Then you could always hit the player behind them. I’m not sure people would like that solution though, since it removes the best option to deal with pet users, killing their pets and focusing them when they try to resummoning.

Arciris

One thing I never see mentioned are passives.

When you slot a skill, especially class skills, you get either additional benefits from it being slotted, or an extra effect for being used (like ulti-gen for example), or both.
When you double slot anything, it's a missed opportunity to have extra effects from your passives.
With any summon from it's class, a sorc gains health and stam recovery and 8% max health and eventually a small magika return when the pet dies or is un-summoned. And that's it. 3 benefits (generously considering Rebate here) for 2 slots.
And what does the Matriarch do to justify those 3 passives for 2 slots? It heals (at a cost) and it deals single target damage (for free before Curse)

Since the Matriarch is often compared to BoL, I suggest people take a look at what passives Templars benefit from when casting BoL on one bar, and let's say Vampire's Bane on the other - or Blazing Spear ... See what I mean?

As for LoS issues, I'm sorry but Lol.
The best pets to LoS with are either Monster sets (available to everyone) like (not limited to) Maw of the Infernal, that spawn in your face, or the Storm Atro ult, the big thing that stays planted like a tree while doing a lot more damage than the Matriarch.
Even the Scamp is better for LoS, as its position is more predictable than the Matriarch, whose AI is set to follow the caster, which only makes it more or less useful for LoS when retreating.

I suggest to people who think it's so OP, to try to deliberately LoSing with the Matriarch only, and tell me how it goes. Hint: it's not as easy as it seems.

Another thing: be careful what you wish for.
Do you really want un-targetable pets? When you can just kill or simply CC the Matriarch and remove any healing capability a Pet sorc has (making it an easy kill afterwards) now?

Sorry, but all I see here are L2P issues, as usual.

Triigon

I cant see anything while using that thing , it should be a lot smaller if nothing else

Mitaka211

Thread "Nerf ,literally, everything else except mag sorc"
MagSorcs : Bla bla bla when you think about it bla bla bla in conclusion just gut that skill it's fine

Other Thread "Suggesting sorc should be at the same level as other classes"
NPC Magsorc response options :
- Lul , l2p
- Another nerf sorc thread?
- stop crying
- Magsorc is fine
- We get nerfed every patch

TragedyOA

I only get 30dps on my petsorc,i do not argee with the OP.