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Alliance Lock Ruining PvP for Many

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  • ATomiX96
    ATomiX96
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    Idk if you people would play more than one character then you wouldnt be for faction locks just saying :)
  • rumple9
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    Zos needs to add an unlocked 30 day cp campaign then everyone is happy
  • SidraWillowsky
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    rumple9 wrote: »
    Zos needs to add an unlocked 30 day cp campaign then everyone is happy

    As long as there aren't leaderboards or rewards, sure. I'd be curious to see what all these people who claim they just want to be able to play with friends would do. If it truly is just about that, they'll go play on their various toons there and be happy with that.

    Maybe a total of 4 30-day campaigns? Faction locked CP and no CP, and unlocked CP and no CP, with leaderboards only on the locked campaigns?
  • therift
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    idk wrote: »
    therift wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Darkenarlol wrote: »
    faction jumpers have ruined PvP for way more people

    Really easy to say and hard to back up. Considering the first reason Zos gave for brining back faction locks was people asked for it. If it was really that your "faction jumpers" were an issue it would have been irrelevant that people had asked for it and Zos would have had a very solid reason for bringing it back. That alone seems discredit your comment.

    In the release notes for Update 18, ZoS specifically stated that they were aware of the concerns about Alliance loyalty and would continue to monitor faction behavior. This developer comment was related to extensive threads regarding exploits made possible by faction change. Additionally, in some of the threads which documented the abuses, ZoS requested player reports on two specific 'faction-hop' behaviors. In that context, it is clearly understood that Zenimax has been monitoring specific behaviors and considering reintroduction of faction locks for more than a year.


    If Zos had truly come up with strong compelling evidence that thre was exploiting or a noticeable affect on the campaign outcome or similar actual issue they would have not lead off with that players had asked for this change when mentioning the reason.

    Yes, Zos did make a statement in the patch notes of May last year they would be monitoring the situation, but I have yet to see any thread actually "documenting" anything showing actual real issues.

    However, the most compelling evidence that Zos does not truly think their is a real issue is they left a campaign without faction lock. It would seem to me that would be complete negligence to leave a means for people tp pull their stunts if they truly felt there was a real issue, if they really had evidence.. It really is that simple.

    I think this is more of an experiment.

    1) ZoS isn't going to report whatever they discovered during the supposed 'monitoring' period. They rarely report progress on bugs, let alone alleged exploits.

    2) In one if the live shows ZoS put out before Elsweyr release, one of the devs (Rob? Brian?) stated they were reintroducing faction-locked on a limited basis with the new campaigns, that it is one of the global parameters they may turn on when creating a new campaign, and they could 'disable it' if warranted.

    I think that ZoS has responded to extensive player lobbying, has received a number of valid documentations of exploits, observed some things they didn't like, and decided the easiest thing to do was throw it all back at the player base.

    They changed nothing about the campaigns. A true experiment would have paired identical campaigns with one locked and the other not. It seems that instead of addressing the one or two exploitive behaviors enabled by faction-hopping (for which ZoS was given innumerable possible solutions)... they punted.

    It's a shame, really. I got what I wanted, but it prove to be a pyrrhic victory.
  • Rianai
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    mommadani907 wrote: »
    I only run AD, so faction lock doesn't impact me personally. You know what else didn't impact me personally? Not having faction lock. Literally never. So a couple of times someone snagged our scroll and ran to the other enemy team. Guess what? Still happened the other night, sooooo....

    Granted I'm not on every moment of every day, so maybe I'm missing something.

    This point is bad. I've explained in the Alliance War forum why this point is bad and you're actually arguing that it's ok to cheat. Faction lock isnt going to completely eliminate cheating but it is going to curve it alot more now since there are punishments by having that guy not be able to play with his friends for 30 days. Also with faction lock it isolates players for doing this less so it's really easy to report the guy who is cheating.

    At some point we need to start curbing the cheating and we have to start somewhere. No one anti faction lock has ever made a suggestion of how to curve it with non faction locks so really you're a selfish lot only thinking about your multi faction characters.

    Faction locks don't punish this kind of "cheating". Playes are locked into a faction regardless of their ingame actions and it only punishes a behaviour that was previously allowed and even encouraged.
  • Rianai
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    The only threads i can find about exploits regarding scrolls are about players getting into keeps/behind scroll gates via unintended mechanics -- something that isn't impacted by faction locks at all. Other complaints regarding scrolls are just about players not immediately putting them into keeps/temples, which isn't exploiting and not impacted by faction locks either.

    And since locks are supposed to inhibit the exploits you are talking about, there shouldn't be an issue with more accurate explanation, right?
    Edited by Rianai on June 16, 2019 6:36PM
  • Loralai_907
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    mommadani907 wrote: »
    I only run AD, so faction lock doesn't impact me personally. You know what else didn't impact me personally? Not having faction lock. Literally never. So a couple of times someone snagged our scroll and ran to the other enemy team. Guess what? Still happened the other night, sooooo....

    Granted I'm not on every moment of every day, so maybe I'm missing something.

    This point is bad. I've explained in the Alliance War forum why this point is bad and you're actually arguing that it's ok to cheat. Faction lock isnt going to completely eliminate cheating but it is going to curve it alot more now since there are punishments by having that guy not be able to play with his friends for 30 days. Also with faction lock it isolates players for doing this less so it's really easy to report the guy who is cheating.

    At some point we need to start curbing the cheating and we have to start somewhere. No one anti faction lock has ever made a suggestion of how to curve it with non faction locks so really you're a selfish lot only thinking about your multi faction characters.

    Waht. Where am I arguing that cheating is good? All I'm saying is people who want to behave a certain way still will. And so what if you have to then go get the scroll from another team, omg no not more PvP related things to do, please anything but that!

    You want to talk about "cheating"? How about the fact that necro's can pull you out of semi cracked open keep doors, and do repeatedly in some cases (like last night). Or enemy players getting in to your keep in a not intended way? Should your team be punished if your keep doesn't flag? But please, lets all die on the hill of what happens with scrolls on the rare occasion. If you want to focus on one mechanic of "war" that you don't like, ya better start a dam list of all the things that happen that aren't "fair" war tactics, and how many of them can or cannot be stopped by faction lock.
    PC-NA - formerly, mommadani907
    Guild: Ayrenn's Army - Co-GM
    Guild: Weeping Angels - Officer
    Twitter: @ Loralai_907
    2nd Account - LilithZero

    CP 1500+
    Active characters:
    Fauna Rosewood ( Bosmer Stam DK - Master Crafter/AD)///Loralai Darknova (Drunken Zombie Bosmer Stam Sorc - PvP/AD)
    Lilith Darknova ( Dunmer Mag DK - Master Crafter - PvP/AD)///and roughly 1billion alts
  • therift
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    Rianai wrote: »
    The only threads i can find about exploits regarding scrolls are about players getting into keeps/behind scroll gates via unintended mechanics -- something that isn't impacted by faction locks at all. Other complaints regarding scrolls are just about players not immediately putting them into keeps/temples, which isn't exploiting and not impacted by faction locks either.

    And since locks are supposed to inhibit the exploits you are talking about, there shouldn't be an issue with more accurate explanation, right?

    Not all the campaigns are locked.
  • Rianai
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    But you already stated those exploits are well documented anyway, so players who want to exploit will know already, no? And i mean, faction locks change absolutely nothing about how scrolls function, so how can they impact any possible exploit in this regard?
    If it's just about flipping stuff back and forth, then that didn't happen on the main campaigns, so if the goal was to prevent this behaviour, they should have locked the 7-day campaign.
    Edited by Rianai on June 16, 2019 6:53PM
  • Gilvoth
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    Rianai wrote: »
    The only threads i can find about exploits regarding scrolls are about players getting into keeps/behind scroll gates via unintended mechanics -- something that isn't impacted by faction locks at all. Other complaints regarding scrolls are just about players not immediately putting them into keeps/temples, which isn't exploiting and not impacted by faction locks either.

    And since locks are supposed to inhibit the exploits you are talking about, there shouldn't be an issue with more accurate explanation, right?

    you can get forum warning and even banns if you openly talk about, teach, or make threads about how to perform exploits and cheats.
    we aint going to openly tell you about the cheats and the things that have caused locked campaigns.
    Edited by Gilvoth on June 16, 2019 8:02PM
  • adirondack
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    Faction locks are horrible. Especially for PC-NA in Vivec. Hardly anyone plays in EP anymore. All my friends swapped over to DC. I want to play but honestly I just hope people come back to EP and bring all the good fights back.

    </sarcasm>
    Ray
  • Mr_Walker
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    Casarion wrote: »
    therift wrote: »
    Casarion wrote: »
    therift wrote: »
    Casarion wrote: »
    Beardimus wrote: »
    Casarion wrote: »
    It would also be another thing if Shor actually had any population to act as an alternative, but its 0 bars 90% of the day. Some compromise would be nice, hopefully the RPers can see past their fantasies and just let people play the game the way its been played for years.

    Basically let the cheats keep cheating? No thanks. The change has made a positive differnrce already and all the 'sky is falling' nonsense from the anti lock camp hasn't happened.

    The only downside is folls with tri-toons need to get organised with their mates. It's not that hard. Adapt and overcome. Move along the change curve.

    The cheats? Imagine thinking that people actually hop factions to sneak "intel". No one does that, and even if some random did, it never makes a difference. The map flips from groups, not the 100 man zergs that get wiped from an organized 12 man, and fast at that.

    You can't just change such a crucial part of the game after so many years and expect people to just go with it for the sake of faction pride. Most people have played at least two factions and invested thousands of hours between different characters, and you're just gonna come out of no where and say I can't play that character essentially for a month? Does that not seem radical to any of you? Like I've said 5x now, why not be reasonable and implement a solution that pleases both sides rather than doing such a radical change?

    1) Faction lock did not 'come out of nowhere' ZoS warned a year ago that reintroduction was being considered. Granted, the discussions leading to ZoS's decision are found in the Alliance War subforum, so it'easily missed, but the warning was in the release notes for the previous chapter.

    ZoS stated they would monitor Alliance loyalty. This was a result of extensive reports of behaviors made possible by 'faction-hopping' that defeated/bypassed fundamental PvP/Cyrodiil game design. In fact, ZoS requested reports of two of those behaviors. Apprantly, after two years of reports and a year of ZoS 'monitoring', faction lock reintroduction is necessary.

    2) The issue is not 'gathering intel'.

    Cool, but that's not my point. It doesn't matter how much notice they give, they're screwing over anyone who doesn't play just one faction. Like what Bagon said, you're alienating that entire audience because everyone is so paranoid about faction hoppers. At least think on the solution that I came up with, because as many as these RPers are happy, there are just as many who are disappointed.

    I don't disagree with you.

    Several players have stated that when faction lock was removed previously, ZoS encouraged creation of characters of differing Alliances to 'play with your friends', and they did so.

    These players are rightfully aggrieved, and being compelled to switch to a different campaign format may be unsatisfactory.

    Yeah, its a shame other people can't at the very least empathize with our viewpoint and think about it reasonably. I'm not sure what platform you're on, but on Xbox Vivec Is the only campaign with any population. These people saying "Oh, just go play a different campaign don't realize that Shor is 0 bars most of the day. It's hilarious seeing people make that argument, knowing its impossible.

    Don't you see the irony with that statement? If as you say there are hordes of people that hate faction lock, couldn't that horde of people head to Shor? Wouldn't that make Shor the most popular server and make the 30 day server die, since everyone hates faction lock?

    How many times do you guys need to be told. On XNA outside of a few hours a day, Shor is dead. In off peak there's not really enough pop to support one server.

    Quit trolling with this "suggestion".
  • Heimpai
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    Soo can my characters that are no longer playable be swapped to EP? Considering i invested time and money into them the least you could do is allow me to put all my characters on one alliance

  • Mr_Walker
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    Mr_Walker wrote: »
    How many times do you guys need to be told. On XNA outside of a few hours a day, Shor is dead. In off peak there's not really enough pop to support one server.

    Quit trolling with this "suggestion".
    Imryll wrote: »
    If there are as many who feel as you do as you suggest, they could easily populate Shor. And it makes perfect sense to have the locked 30-day campaigns allocated to the folks who actually want to play the campaign. Shor's shorter duration meshes better with folks who want the freedom to switch sides at will.

    See above.
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