Alliance Lock Ruining PvP for Many

Grianasteri

Casarion wrote: »

The new alliance lock feature has hindered many players, myself included from being able to pvp with one another. It would be one thing if you could change factions for a fee of AP or gold, but instead I'm locked to red for a whole month while everyone who I ballgroup with is on yellow-Xbox. Some others I know made this mistake so we've lost several people already due to this new feature. Are other people disappointed in this feature? It's basically killed over half the game for me since I can't group or play with most of my friends for a month.

Its a massive issue. Its the main reason I hardly play any PVP outside of Battlegrounds, even though I would like to.

Half the time, a guild group I want to play with, or one that's asking for help, I cant, because I don't have a character in the correct alliance, that I want to play etc. Ideally, I should be able to take any of my characters and fight for any alliance within each campaign.

One of the problems is, the game as originally conceived obviously had these 3 alliances and this was central and integral to the story progression and progress around the world, this is carried through into PVP... but with the way the game has evolved, this makes no sense, particularly after defeating Molag Baal etc.

One solution could be to simply remove the alliance category of each character upon completion of the main quest. Then make it that when joining a campaign, you CHOOSE which alliance to fight for, then cannot change from that in the same way as applies now.

Rex-Umbra

Alliance lock seems very popular on the xbox crowd. Locked campaign always full with wait.

Vercingetorix

Faction Lock is hurting exploiters that can no longer cheat the leaderboard for 10+ 30-day rewards. FTFY

Everyone else is fine because they play on only one faction for leaderboard rewards like a correct person. If you want to play with your friends on another faction, go to another campaign - AP is AP. The only reason why you'd complain is because you're after the leaderboard so you can exploit it. You can't cheat anymore - get over it.

BigBragg

Grianasteri wrote: »

Casarion wrote: »

The new alliance lock feature has hindered many players, myself included from being able to pvp with one another. It would be one thing if you could change factions for a fee of AP or gold, but instead I'm locked to red for a whole month while everyone who I ballgroup with is on yellow-Xbox. Some others I know made this mistake so we've lost several people already due to this new feature. Are other people disappointed in this feature? It's basically killed over half the game for me since I can't group or play with most of my friends for a month.

Its a massive issue. Its the main reason I hardly play any PVP outside of Battlegrounds, even though I would like to.

Half the time, a guild group I want to play with, or one that's asking for help, I cant, because I don't have a character in the correct alliance, that I want to play etc. Ideally, I should be able to take any of my characters and fight for any alliance within each campaign.

One of the problems is, the game as originally conceived obviously had these 3 alliances and this was central and integral to the story progression and progress around the world, this is carried through into PVP... but with the way the game has evolved, this makes no sense, particularly after defeating Molag Baal etc.

One solution could be to simply remove the alliance category of each character upon completion of the main quest. Then make it that when joining a campaign, you CHOOSE which alliance to fight for, then cannot change from that in the same way as applies now.

But then they wouldn't be able to sell Any Race, Any Alliance, so that's never going to happen.

vamp_emily

I think flip flopping should be considered an "exploit".

Celas_Dranacea

People’s attention spans are too short these days. Just play on one faction for a month and then switch to your other characters on another. Glad I solved your problem!

Raammzzaa

Mr_Walker wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Does this sentence [3] pertain to the entirety of the Xbox PvP population across all servers?

Yes! Last night around 8pm AEST on XNA the grand total of the population on all servers was one bar red. That was the sum total across every campaign.

Now do you see why I get p'd off at people suggesting I go pvp in 7cp?

Lol! 😂 Australian EST! 😂

Ok, so 5 am “tomorrow” for me... we had one bar. I’m in US Central and we had a queue of over 100 yesterday for a pop-locked Kaal at prime time. If you’re in Australia, perhaps try playing in the middle of the night when you can? I think you will find the campaigns much more populated.

mystkldrgnb14_ESO

Iluvrien wrote: »

Casarion wrote: »

I'm done replying to these ignorant posts that are completely disregarding my point. Just think about the other side and how annoying it'd be to spend thousands of hours between three different factions, grouping on each one and enjoying all of it, making countless friends and then all of that is thrown away for a month at a time. By endorsing the faction lock, you're basically saying I can't pvp on the majority of my characters or play with anyone who isn't on that one faction. No, Shor is not an option on console since it's 0 bars all day on Xbox. BGs are possible, but me and my friends all have high MMRs (If that's even a thing anymore idk) and the queues take at the very least 20 minutes per match. This isn't to complain, moreso to propose a possible solution to this that would please both sides. A fee for changing factions mid campaign could at the very least solve some situations, maybe for a million AP?

Either way, this feature is way too restrictive and doesn't take into consideration the many people who play more than one faction. You can't disregard this fact by just simply saying "Choose one". That's not a reasonable solution. Maybe instead of shitting on my opinion, maybe someone would like to propose a different solution?

Anyway, i'm done looking at this thread, it's just full of people jumping the gun. Hope you all enjoy your RP zergs.

I'm trying to get my head around this.

Taking your initial assertion (many people are unhappy with faction locks) as an axiom:

• Shor isn't an option because there aren't enough people.
• So you don't go into it.
• But many people are affected by this.
• So, that means that many people are unhappy with the change, but none of them are going into Shor because nobody else has gone into Shor?

So you are saying that there is an entire population of people who are unhappy, but won't move, because they are waiting for someone else to move first?

If that really is the case then it isn't just unfortunate or sad, it's tragic.

Yup, pretty much.

People just don't seem to get the fact that if they and their group took like, a single week, and started populating Shor more-nights-than-not, others would also populate Shor, and then more would come - and it would be its own full game within a week or two - continually populated, never stopping, just like the other.

Its a fun social experiment I've done multiple times over the years in MMOs - "Go sit somewhere , say hello to people, and wait.." pretty soon more and more people come and join you. Do it on the regular - people start regularly coming by and hanging out. Works every time.

It would just take a bit of commitment during their prime time play hours for like a week - and Shor would forever be populated.

But no - its easier to call everyone who doesnt' agree an "Rper" (which has nothing to do with any of this, Rpers aren't pvping and they certanily didn't decide this for anyone lol) and insist that there's only one campaign that means anything at all to everyone in PVP in Cyrodil.

None of the other options count apparently. Perhaps ZOS would save themselves something (servers?) just taking those other options off the table. Since apparently no one understands that those other options work just as well.

Its just sad.

msalvia

I love the INTENTION of faction-lock, but hate the RESULTS so far. This has been the most lop-sided campaign (PC, 30 day standard) I've seen since I started doing PvP in terms of population differences and scoring. I can't wait to see if it balances out next campaign (doubt it), or if we see even more people bail on DC and join EP (cuz who wants to fight against 10 to 1 odds all the time)?

I sincerely hope this was a one-time imbalance, because I want faction lock to work. But if the result is the most populous faction just zerging to victory every time, it doesn't really reward skill anymore. I've been leveling my baby necros in the standard campaign and doing shockingly well, but 20 snipe spammers are still gonna get me eventually, and that's basically been the month.

msalvia

Beardimus wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

faction jumpers have ruined PvP for way more people

Spot on, it's better immediately.

And as a by product if ZOS have broken up 'ball groups' all the better. Less zerg, less lag.

I like faction lock, but it has undoubtedly increased zerging. Maybe if you're standing in the zerg you don't see it or something.

Celas_Dranacea

msalvia wrote: »

I love the INTENTION of faction-lock, but hate the RESULTS so far. This has been the most lop-sided campaign (PC, 30 day standard) I've seen since I started doing PvP in terms of population differences and scoring. I can't wait to see if it balances out next campaign (doubt it), or if we see even more people bail on DC and join EP (cuz who wants to fight against 10 to 1 odds all the time)?

I sincerely hope this was a one-time imbalance, because I want faction lock to work. But if the result is the most populous faction just zerging to victory every time, it doesn't really reward skill anymore. I've been leveling my baby necros in the standard campaign and doing shockingly well, but 20 snipe spammers are still gonna get me eventually, and that's basically been the month.

Honestly if more people want to be nerds and play for the overpopulated faction then let them, I don’t care. On NA PC it’s clearly EP that is overpopulated. There are certainly many good players / people in that faction, but I personally would find no fulfillment or honor in playing for the team that is steamrolling everything due to numbers. No offense.

I will proudly fight for AD even if it’s 10v1. I know the situation is incrementally more difficult for blue - to DC I say fight on and respect to you.

TequilaFire

EP was overpopulated on PC NA before faction locks.

Goregrinder

First, figure out how many players are PVPing...then figure out how many out of THOSE people are complaining about PVP being ruined. THEN determine if that ratio is 51% or more, or if it is 50% or less....

THEN create a post based on that data.

Thogard

Mayrael wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Much less scroll scams, much less toxicity in chat, much less pug locking in useless fights, much less spying, much more balanced populations (because now most people can't hop on campaign where they are winning to ez play, they need to deal with what they find). In general I'm really happy with the lock.

Nothing really prevents people from joining the winning faction. All I´ve to do is wait until the last few days right before the campaign is about to end, ask someone who plays on that specific campaign who´s winning, and assign all my characters of that faction to that campaign. And it´s even easier than before, since with faction locks implemented, the difference in score between the different factions are much bigger than pre-Elsweyr.

Mhm but through almost whole campaign the rest of us don't have to deal with you (nothing personal, just an example) and the things I mentioned which ruined experience for far more people than the ones that are against the lock, and you won't get any meaningful rewards. Look at the forums, look in the game, more people is happy with the lock.

Goregrinder wrote: »

First, figure out how many players are PVPing...then figure out how many out of THOSE people are complaining about PVP being ruined. THEN determine if that ratio is 51% or more, or if it is 50% or less....

THEN create a post based on that data.

The downside to the multi faction players (being locked out of many of their characters and blocked from playing a GAME with their friends) is not proportional to the upside of the faction loyalists (not having to worry as much about “traitors” in zone chat).

khajiitNPC

Look. I get how OP feels. Hopefully he’ll be able to decide what faction he wants to play on and his friends can coordinate with him. I really hope they can come together and decide what campaign they can play on.

sunshineflame

Heimpai wrote: »

Soo can my characters that are no longer playable be swapped to EP? Considering i invested time and money into them the least you could do is allow me to put all my characters on one alliance

You could have done that yourself. You can still play all of your characters in PvP. Thank you for your time.

bugmom

The alliance lock is wonderful! I've seen an improvement in play and love finding other guilds committed to the campaign. Since the are other campaigns that are not locked, you get to choose. I really don't understand why anyone would complain. You do have a choice.

SidraWillowsky

Mr_Walker wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Does this sentence [3] pertain to the entirety of the Xbox PvP population across all servers?

Yes! Last night around 8pm AEST on XNA the grand total of the population on all servers was one bar red. That was the sum total across every campaign.

Now do you see why I get p'd off at people suggesting I go pvp in 7cp?

I do indeed; you have my sympathy. I'm PC NA and our campaigns are generally plenty full (I have been close to the 200th position in line for the Vivec queue at peak hours) makes me less than sympathetic toward the supposed plight of the insincere faction-hoppers. What you're describing is a different beat entirely, where you're basically forced to PvDoor at off-hours in the unlocked campaigns.

I wonder if it's at all possible to "lock" the rewards and leaderboards for one faction but allow characters from other factions to play any campaign- so, for example, you choose the 30-day CP campaign as the one your AD toons play for scores BUT your DC/EP toons can still enter the campaign but not score. To address the issue of shady behavior with regards to handling of the scrolls, "locked out" toons could be prevented from picking up scrolls. It may open things up to spying, but... I don't think that was the issue faction lock was meant to address; it'll happen regardless if people want it badly enough.

That might be a logistical nightmare, but if not, something for ZoS to consider. I just came up with the idea so I've not yet thought it through enough to ensure that people can't poke holes in it- just tossing stuff out there.

Blinkin8r

AD Zone chat on xbox one has been so much less toxic because of the alliance lock. You always have the occasional troll who just spews filth every once in a while but overall much better. Also a lot less EP picking up our scrolls on their AD toons and running them up north. Of course it'd be better if people who do that crap just cease to exist and we could get rid of faction lock.

JumpmanLane

I just don’t get the necessity of faction locks lol.

I only play one faction because I’m too lazy to train up my horse so I don’t really care. The only people on my ignore list are IN my faction and spend all day long talking about REALLY stupid stuff.

Many of these same dummies are on my kill on sight list even though I KNOW they don’t play other factions.

I don’t care about the map. I’m not loyal to them fools in my faction. Whatever ZOS’s idea for Cyro was I just go there and kill people.

Kel

On PS4 NA, we'd frequently get players from other alliances jumping into chat just to talk *** and taunt.
Aside from the scroll antics and AP boosting, this has been the best change for me. Chat has never been better. You can actually announce where your group is headed and not have to worry about another faction waiting for you.

Daedric_NB_187

I play on Xbox NA and I'm glad the faction lockis there. It was stupid that people would jump off their EP mains to go to AD or DC to prevent people from crowning emp. Plus the team Green faction hopping was stupid.

I feel sorry for the people who actually used it to play with their friends or to even out the factions to make it more fair. But the goofballs screwed it up for y'all. Faction lock needs to stay.

Goregrinder

Thogard wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Much less scroll scams, much less toxicity in chat, much less pug locking in useless fights, much less spying, much more balanced populations (because now most people can't hop on campaign where they are winning to ez play, they need to deal with what they find). In general I'm really happy with the lock.

Nothing really prevents people from joining the winning faction. All I´ve to do is wait until the last few days right before the campaign is about to end, ask someone who plays on that specific campaign who´s winning, and assign all my characters of that faction to that campaign. And it´s even easier than before, since with faction locks implemented, the difference in score between the different factions are much bigger than pre-Elsweyr.

Mhm but through almost whole campaign the rest of us don't have to deal with you (nothing personal, just an example) and the things I mentioned which ruined experience for far more people than the ones that are against the lock, and you won't get any meaningful rewards. Look at the forums, look in the game, more people is happy with the lock.

Goregrinder wrote: »

First, figure out how many players are PVPing...then figure out how many out of THOSE people are complaining about PVP being ruined. THEN determine if that ratio is 51% or more, or if it is 50% or less....

THEN create a post based on that data.

The downside to the multi faction players (being locked out of many of their characters and blocked from playing a GAME with their friends) is not proportional to the upside of the faction loyalists (not having to worry as much about “traitors” in zone chat).

The needs of the many outweigh the demands of the few.

Thogard

Goregrinder wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Much less scroll scams, much less toxicity in chat, much less pug locking in useless fights, much less spying, much more balanced populations (because now most people can't hop on campaign where they are winning to ez play, they need to deal with what they find). In general I'm really happy with the lock.

Nothing really prevents people from joining the winning faction. All I´ve to do is wait until the last few days right before the campaign is about to end, ask someone who plays on that specific campaign who´s winning, and assign all my characters of that faction to that campaign. And it´s even easier than before, since with faction locks implemented, the difference in score between the different factions are much bigger than pre-Elsweyr.

Mhm but through almost whole campaign the rest of us don't have to deal with you (nothing personal, just an example) and the things I mentioned which ruined experience for far more people than the ones that are against the lock, and you won't get any meaningful rewards. Look at the forums, look in the game, more people is happy with the lock.

Goregrinder wrote: »

First, figure out how many players are PVPing...then figure out how many out of THOSE people are complaining about PVP being ruined. THEN determine if that ratio is 51% or more, or if it is 50% or less....

THEN create a post based on that data.

The downside to the multi faction players (being locked out of many of their characters and blocked from playing a GAME with their friends) is not proportional to the upside of the faction loyalists (not having to worry as much about “traitors” in zone chat).

The needs of the many outweigh the demands of the few.

Playing my characters and playing with friends are needs.

The comfort of worrying slightly less about zone trolls is not a need.

To imply that the positive and negative for each side of this argument is equivalent is absurd. They aren’t equivalent at all.

Not to mention the fact that using “collective punishment” to lock everyone out of characters in order to prevent zone trolls is morally and logically flawed for the same reason collective punishment EVERYWHERE is flawed.

And before someone says to go play the 7 day, we should make that the faction locked campaign and see if anyone goes. Until we can test it both ways, the “go play 7 day” is a moot argument.

Goregrinder

Thogard wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Much less scroll scams, much less toxicity in chat, much less pug locking in useless fights, much less spying, much more balanced populations (because now most people can't hop on campaign where they are winning to ez play, they need to deal with what they find). In general I'm really happy with the lock.

Nothing really prevents people from joining the winning faction. All I´ve to do is wait until the last few days right before the campaign is about to end, ask someone who plays on that specific campaign who´s winning, and assign all my characters of that faction to that campaign. And it´s even easier than before, since with faction locks implemented, the difference in score between the different factions are much bigger than pre-Elsweyr.

Mhm but through almost whole campaign the rest of us don't have to deal with you (nothing personal, just an example) and the things I mentioned which ruined experience for far more people than the ones that are against the lock, and you won't get any meaningful rewards. Look at the forums, look in the game, more people is happy with the lock.

Goregrinder wrote: »

First, figure out how many players are PVPing...then figure out how many out of THOSE people are complaining about PVP being ruined. THEN determine if that ratio is 51% or more, or if it is 50% or less....

THEN create a post based on that data.

The downside to the multi faction players (being locked out of many of their characters and blocked from playing a GAME with their friends) is not proportional to the upside of the faction loyalists (not having to worry as much about “traitors” in zone chat).

The needs of the many outweigh the demands of the few.

Playing my characters and playing with friends are needs.

The comfort of worrying slightly less about zone trolls is not a need.

To imply that the positive and negative for each side of this argument is equivalent is absurd. They aren’t equivalent at all.

Not to mention the fact that using “collective punishment” to lock everyone out of characters in order to prevent zone trolls is morally and logically flawed for the same reason collective punishment EVERYWHERE is flawed.

And before someone says to go play the 7 day, we should make that the faction locked campaign and see if anyone goes. Until we can test it both ways, the “go play 7 day” is a moot argument.

The needs and wants of the many outweigh the demands of the few*.

Toc de Malsvi

Thogard wrote: »

It’s unfortunate that ZOS chose to enable and cater to toxic players.

If you don’t have any friends on other factions and if you don’t want random people to be able to play all their characters, you’re a toxic player.

This is just false.

People have every opportunity to play all their characters on all alliances with all their friends. They are only limited to specific campaigns.

This same argument applies to factions existing at all. Why can't my yellow team up with and heal my buddies red in Cyrodiil?

daemonios

For those of you still painting both sides as equivalent, let me point out something.

If you play characters from different factions, you can go to a different campaign on different characters. You can still play with all your characters, just not in the same campaign.

On the other hand, if you play for the long-term campaign and faction hoppers keep undermining your investment, switching campaigns isn't an option. Firstly, you still lose all the work you put in your original campaign; secondly, the same thing can happen in the new one.

Faction locking removes or at least mitigates the problem for people interested in playing for their faction, while retaining options for those who want to be able to play on any alliance. The opposite isn't true. They are not equivalent positions.

Mr_Walker

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Alliance lock seems very popular on the xbox crowd. Locked campaign always full with wait.

It's always been that way in prime time.

Mr_Walker

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Does this sentence [3] pertain to the entirety of the Xbox PvP population across all servers?

Yes! Last night around 8pm AEST on XNA the grand total of the population on all servers was one bar red. That was the sum total across every campaign.

Now do you see why I get p'd off at people suggesting I go pvp in 7cp?

Lol! 😂 Australian EST! 😂

Ok, so 5 am “tomorrow” for me... we had one bar. I’m in US Central and we had a queue of over 100 yesterday for a pop-locked Kaal at prime time. If you’re in Australia, perhaps try playing in the middle of the night when you can? I think you will find the campaigns much more populated.

Quality idea, I'll just play video games at 3 in the morning, because I don't have a job....

mystkldrgnb14_ESO wrote: »

People just don't seem to get the fact that if they and their group took like, a single week, and started populating Shor more-nights-than-not, others would also populate Shor, and then more would come - and it would be its own full game within a week or two - continually populated, never stopping, just like the other.

Its a fun social experiment I've done multiple times over the years in MMOs - "Go sit somewhere , say hello to people, and wait.." pretty soon more and more people come and join you. Do it on the regular - people start regularly coming by and hanging out. Works every time.

It would just take a bit of commitment during their prime time play hours for like a week - and Shor would forever be populated.

No, it wouldn't be. Read the whole freaking thread.

Mr_Walker

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Does this sentence [3] pertain to the entirety of the Xbox PvP population across all servers?

Yes! Last night around 8pm AEST on XNA the grand total of the population on all servers was one bar red. That was the sum total across every campaign.

Now do you see why I get p'd off at people suggesting I go pvp in 7cp?

I do indeed; you have my sympathy. I'm PC NA and our campaigns are generally plenty full (I have been close to the 200th position in line for the Vivec queue at peak hours) makes me less than sympathetic toward the supposed plight of the insincere faction-hoppers. What you're describing is a different beat entirely, where you're basically forced to PvDoor at off-hours in the unlocked campaigns.

I wonder if it's at all possible to "lock" the rewards and leaderboards for one faction but allow characters from other factions to play any campaign- so, for example, you choose the 30-day CP campaign as the one your AD toons play for scores BUT your DC/EP toons can still enter the campaign but not score. To address the issue of shady behavior with regards to handling of the scrolls, "locked out" toons could be prevented from picking up scrolls. It may open things up to spying, but... I don't think that was the issue faction lock was meant to address; it'll happen regardless if people want it badly enough.

That might be a logistical nightmare, but if not, something for ZoS to consider. I just came up with the idea so I've not yet thought it through enough to ensure that people can't poke holes in it- just tossing stuff out there.

My idea is to hand out unbound vMA or Masters weapons at the end of each campaign to the top 5% of people in each faction, with the proviso that any faction swap means you collect NO end of campaign rewards on any character for that campaign.

This has a number of benefits. It encourages PvP players to play a little more to get the goodies at the end of the campaign, they are sellable (and PvPers are often scratching for gold), and it encourages faction loyalty without preventing those who just like to have a fight from swapping factions to find them, but also disincentivises those who just want to flip flop to be on the "winning side".