POLL: Performance fix or new content(vote and help show zos)

itscompton

valeriiya wrote: »

It's not happening, Rob already said that earlier this year

Slowing Down Content Releases and the Great Fix Patch
I spoke with Rob about the fast release of updates and if ZOS had considered doing a “Great Fix Patch” for one of their updates. He said it’s a question they get a lot and whilst it’s not off the table they as a company do need to produce for everyone and a majority of the bugs and issues faced are not ones everyone encounters or are drastically halting gameplay, as such they need to continue creating content for people who want new content to play and and don’t play at the higher level to notice if a skill or mechanic works a little wonky.

Sounds like BS to me. Pretty much everyone I've ever played with on PS4 has/had issues with the game performance to the point most have quit completely. I used to maintain a membership and play all day every day and would eagerly anticipate getting back on when I was doing other things. However due to deteriorating performance I canceled my sub and now play maybe 5-6 hours a month because that's all I can take before frustration gets the better of me.

Daviiid_ESO

itscompton wrote: »

Sounds like BS to me. Pretty much everyone I've ever played with on PS4 has/had issues with the game performance to the point most have quit completely. I used to maintain a membership and play all day every day and would eagerly anticipate getting back on when I was doing other things. However due to deteriorating performance I canceled my sub and now play maybe 5-6 hours a month because that's all I can take before frustration gets the better of me.

I hope people make sure to send an email to the adress that you recieve in your mail after cancelling. A personal message to zos is worth more than a vote on a poll.

Xogath

Content development needs to take a back seat to performance and stability at this point in time. After this "Year of the Dragon" content anyway.

Since Elsweyr has released, PC/NA server latency is up by literally 30-35%--this is grossly unacceptable. Beyond that, Cyrodiil latency is beyond unacceptable and I won't even set foot in there until it is fixed. Simply entering the zone and standing there causes my latency to double/triple? I don't think so, that needs fixed. I pay for a stable playing environment, and that is not one.

I'm not even going to mention the PC/EU issues.. they're lucky to log in, apparently.

Furthermore, outside of network issues, visual performance is poor at best. Frame rate capped at 100FPS and dropping by as much as 80% in some areas simply because another player is nearby.. with the hardware I and many others have.. is completely unacceptable. However, in order for this to be fixed.. the game needs one of two things:

1. Complete Engine overhaul.
2. Ported to a current/next-gen Engine with DX12/Vulkan support.

As I've said numerous times before, I'd give up the next year's worth of content updates for this to happen, and at this point I think it would be the best thing in the world for the game, paired with network solutions that work for 100% of the people trying to play the game. ZOS is losing out on quite a bit of money from negative reviews being left by people who simply cannot connect to the launcher to update the game due to their ISP blocking ZOS traffic for whatever reason.. an issue ZOS needs to figure out how to remedy one way or another.

I know neither one of the things I've mentioned above (regarding the Engine) are easy tasks at all.. in fact, it could take a team of veteran programmers a year or more to achieve this, but it could be done.. and would garner much respect from everyone involved if it were to be done. Can you imagine what this game would look like if it could fully utilize DX12/Vulkan? And how it would perform?

While the game IS good and I DO enjoy playing it, as we all do, the above-mentioned items would breathe life in to the game that, I think, it needs at this point in its life. A daunting task to say the very least, but it's going to need done sooner or later.. so, better sooner than later, right? Right.

Wolfchild07

The only thing that matters is pleasing the share holders. They'll only fix something if it's shown that profits have dropped because of that particular issue.

LennoxPoodle

I totally agree with the notions that no new content would kill the game (reduced revenue + it getting stale) and that "voting with your wallet" (abandoning the game until fixed) would lead ZOS/Bethesda to concentrate their effort on other products.
There is however another way to show your dissatisfaction. Reduce your spendings on the game by not buying crates (don't do that in general, bad business practice), not buying chapters and/or maybe cancel your subscription. But remain active to underline your interest in the game and its economic potential if fixed.
Likewise ZOS could give fixing a higher priority without entirely stopping content. Especially when they don't introduce new mechanics they can still use their design people for visual assets, dungeons zones and such things (just refrain from skill lines, classes and such). I really like @Faulgor 's suggestion on the matter.

RodneyRegis

Ogou wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You can't fix the performance. It's an engine limitation.

The only way performance will improve is if they make an ESO 2 one day with a new engine.

Doubt it. Most of the performance issues don't seem like the kind of issues caused by game engines.
My guess would be that a lot of these issues are caused by some legacy code that no one wants to go through.

Possibly, but surely it's the same legacy code on pc-eu and pc-na? If both were struggling I'd agree completely that it's *** coding that can't be unravelled, but the discrepancy between the two servers with only one difference between the two men and that surely this is the main issue.

idk

RodneyRegis wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You can't fix the performance. It's an engine limitation.

The only way performance will improve is if they make an ESO 2 one day with a new engine.

Doubt it. Most of the performance issues don't seem like the kind of issues caused by game engines.
My guess would be that a lot of these issues are caused by some legacy code that no one wants to go through.

Possibly, but surely it's the same legacy code on pc-eu and pc-na? If both were struggling I'd agree completely that it's *** coding that can't be unravelled, but the discrepancy between the two servers with only one difference between the two men and that surely this is the main issue.

Both servers have the same code. It would not makes sense to have two different sets of code for the PC version of the game. The recent issues that has plagued PC EU more than PC NA seem to be server load, number of players on the server. Zos likely pared down the physical hardware long ago causing the bottleneck.

RodneyRegis

We'll exactly.

To those who keep saying that they are different departments, yes. I'm sure 99% of posters on this thread understand that the people doing the design are not also doing the coding. But the point is that with every release of new content, things get worse game-wide. Perhaps if they delayed the release for a short while and fixed some performance issues, it might help. No need for he designers to down tools.

Of course, it might be that the issues are unfixable and Zos are aware of that, so are releasing content to milk it, knowing the game only has a finite shelf life. Would explain the utter lack of communication.

kylewwefan

Can’t we have it all. Perfectly working smooth as butter game and new content. That’s what we really want.

stpdmonkey

They can fix the issues. I heard at one point that they started with a bad engine for the game type. But either way. If they keep releasing new content with more and more bugs then how can they ever expect to keep up with them. Fix the worst and leave the rest is their philosophy at the moment. I am looking into other games because I'm soo tired of bugs that greatly affect my game play. Zos stating that most dont feel them or dont play a level that they can tell a skill is alittle wonky is bull. They NEED to fix the issues or they WILL start to see a giant decline. I personally know over 20 people hitting their limits. Sure that's not a ton of people overall. But if I only run with maybe 80 total that's 1/4 of them. And when increased into a larger scale that's going to hurt bad for zos. Fallout is not the switch when it has just as many issues if not even more. Personally final fantasy sounds like a good solution for me. But I do love the game(when working decent). Being such a large game some bugs are expected. But not as it is now.

menschikov2

I am Raidlead in a Guild(i lead 3-4 Raids per week) and we had not a single Raid in the last 2 Weeks where we didn't lost atleast one Person because of Bugs in Trials.

And it is also not important in which raid we go. In MoL you have bugs like the platform-bug when Rakath oneshots the tank at the 2nd Platform no mattere whan he does. In HoF we get the bug that the zenturios at the 2nd boss rotate unpredictionabele when they mke the steam. In vSS you have the bugged lightningwall at the Iceboss where the AOE is shown at a totaly other place then the real AoE. AS is totaly broken when the whole group gets killed by the bosses breath even if they are all behind him.
And another Point is that we have nearby no more choice what we should Play. We planed to go to Asylum but there are so much Bugs that we don't even bother to try it because it would only cause Frustration.
All this makes it versy hard for us to start our Raids each week because we have allways the same Bugs and we get demotivated when we can use atleast 15 minutes of our Raidtime becuase we have Bugs and disconects.

Daviiid_ESO

kylewwefan wrote: »

Can’t we have it all. Perfectly working smooth as butter game and new content. That’s what we really want.

Wish we could, it's unfortunate that they've been ignoring the issues for so long now, must be even harder to fix when they've piled even more on top.

stpdmonkey

Atleast playable.

barney2525

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Once again, content and bug / performance fixes are TWO SEPERATE DAMN THINGS!

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

So you are telling me that those who create content are not capable of bug fixes. Of having their department stop for one patch on creating content and fixing the stuff they made and the bugs in their content.

Throwing numbers of people at a server doesn't change anything. It's not like a tarp on a baseball field where more people = quicker and more efficient job done. There is a maximum number of people that can work on any system at any specific time. After that, it's just a bunch of people just sitting around agreeing with whatever is being done.

Now, if you think they are under-employing, then you'd want to show some data on that.

eso_lags

barney2525 wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Once again, content and bug / performance fixes are TWO SEPERATE DAMN THINGS!

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

So you are telling me that those who create content are not capable of bug fixes. Of having their department stop for one patch on creating content and fixing the stuff they made and the bugs in their content.

Throwing numbers of people at a server doesn't change anything. It's not like a tarp on a baseball field where more people = quicker and more efficient job done. There is a maximum number of people that can work on any system at any specific time. After that, it's just a bunch of people just sitting around agreeing with whatever is being done.

Now, if you think they are under-employing, then you'd want to show some data on that.

If you have been a daily pvp player for the last few years then you would know they either cant or wont fix the performance issues. And when i say cant i mean the people they have employed there now. If they wont hire More people thats their fault, and if that means moving some people around for a little time to fix these issues then so be it. Data? lol. Dont you think if the people there could have fixed it they would have? Or do they care even lees than i think they do (which isn't much)

TheOneWhoSighs

The multitudes of bugs and performance issues are the reason why I quit. And ultimately are the reason I hesitate coming back whenever I see new content.

If you've played the game for any significant amount of time at all, you will have been bitten by a multitude of bugs along the way. You cannot sink 100+ hours into this game and not run into a host of very annoying bugs, unless you're literally doing nothing but sitting in chat.

It needs to change, but unfortunately it probably won't.

idk

RodneyRegis wrote: »

We'll exactly.

To those who keep saying that they are different departments, yes. I'm sure 99% of posters on this thread understand that the people doing the design are not also doing the coding. But the point is that with every release of new content, things get worse game-wide. Perhaps if they delayed the release for a short while and fixed some performance issues, it might help. No need for he designers to down tools.

Of course, it might be that the issues are unfixable and Zos are aware of that, so are releasing content to milk it, knowing the game only has a finite shelf life. Would explain the utter lack of communication.

Even though you mention it you still actually ignore that not everyone has the skill set to work on bugs. That means you are actually suggesting Zos pay these people to do nothing or lay them off. Neither makes sense and it really is that simple.

You also ignore that last time Zos ceased releasing product people quit the game. A large number never returned. Half of my first guild never returned to the game after PC 1.6. Across the board that adds up to serious money losses and it is real.

And yes, most probably understand this when they really think of it as most work places probably have a degree of specialization. Heck, it has been ages since I worked on a team where most actually knew what I did and how I did it. Of course the group I work in is full of people with similar experience but we all work on different teams.

eso_lags

idk wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

We'll exactly.

To those who keep saying that they are different departments, yes. I'm sure 99% of posters on this thread understand that the people doing the design are not also doing the coding. But the point is that with every release of new content, things get worse game-wide. Perhaps if they delayed the release for a short while and fixed some performance issues, it might help. No need for he designers to down tools.

Of course, it might be that the issues are unfixable and Zos are aware of that, so are releasing content to milk it, knowing the game only has a finite shelf life. Would explain the utter lack of communication.

Even though you mention it you still actually ignore that not everyone has the skill set to work on bugs. That means you are actually suggesting Zos pay these people to do nothing or lay them off. Neither makes sense and it really is that simple.

You also ignore that last time Zos ceased releasing product people quit the game. A large number never returned. Half of my first guild never returned to the game after PC 1.6. Across the board that adds up to serious money losses and it is real.

And yes, most probably understand this when they really think of it as most work places probably have a degree of specialization. Heck, it has been ages since I worked on a team where most actually knew what I did and how I did it. Of course the group I work in is full of people with similar experience but we all work on different teams.

You make it seem like the people who make the content, which is supposed to be a certain way, could not then turn around and fix the things they broke when they put the new content out that didnt Come out that certain way. Not talking server performance, but for that they should 10000% hire more people tot deal with it if they cant. And clearly they cant.

And why do people say everyone would quit if they stopped making content? Its disingenuous. No one says quit making content, but taking one MAYBE two patches off to fix the server issue, pvp issues, and other issues, would not kill the game. It could be like another one tamriel and would be very good for the game. Re work some old sets, maybe brush up some older zones, but mainly work on performance. This would do a lot more good for the game then letting it go to *** for end gammee competitive players.

I honestly think we will see something like one tamriel in the future, but sadly i dont think it will bring the fixes we need.. I just don't think they care about fixing major issues anymore. I mean look at cyrodil for the last few years, look at how bad the game runs on console... Look at the thousands of performance posts that go ignored over the years, and look at the number of official statements on the issue.. Could probably count them on one hand..

They dont care or someone high up is preventing them from getting what they need o fix it while still putting out content.. Its all just sad.

Elsonso

eso_lags wrote: »

You make it seem like the people who make the content, which is supposed to be a certain way, could not then turn around and fix the things they broke when they put the new content out that didnt Come out that certain way. Not talking server performance, but for that they should 10000% hire more people tot deal with it if they cant. And clearly they cant.

They do turn around and fix the content that they make. We have weekly patches that fix content that they make.

The systems that people are commenting on that need to be fixed, because they are not functioning as the developers intend, are a relatively small part of the game, and seem to be split between 'development' and 'operations'. These are different from other areas that make up content.

Should they add more people? It is easy to say "yes" to that from my leather recliner, here.

New people cost money, and they rarely come fully trained. The skills may be very specialized, or have a technical nuance that prevents just anyone from doing it. Finding someone, or training someone, can take months, and once that is done, it might take months for that person to complete the work, test it, and deliver it.

While we are sitting here complaining about lag, disconnects, LFG, or guild history (to name popular items), we have no idea what ZOS is doing, or how they are doing it. (Not really our business to know the details, either) All these things seem to hit a class of skill areas, and those might be in relatively short supply. While they might be important for new content, they are only a part of what goes into that new content.

They have said that LFG may take until the end of the year. Guild history fixes could possibly delay that, if the same skills are neded and developers with those skills are constrained. Both of these could interfere with, and delay, overall work on performance.

Have they hired, or found, more people to do this work? I certainly hope so, and about a year ago. It does look from here like they are too constrained in some technical areas. But... as has been said, there are limits to how effective this can be, and all of it has to fit inside the studio budget for the game.

ZOS needs to develop BOTH new content and fixes, concurrently. That is being efficient. They do not need to maintain the release schedule. I have long predicted that ZOS will dial back the DLC schedule, as the game is getting older and they are working on new projects, so this might be the time to do that, and it would be just what the people in this thread are asking for. They could make it sound like they are doing it for quality. In fact, they could change the investment strategy to allow them to move content developers to other projects. Systems and performance fixes could be done, and when finished, any extra systems and performance staff, now trained, are moved to other projects. Net effect is less bugs, and less ESO development expense moving forward.

stpdmonkey

The point in time when zos stopped releasing content and people lef the game it was still in infantile stages. Very little to do and very small community. If they did happen to stop for 6 months or so they would not loose people in mass. The release schedule is soo fast at the moment and soo many events that you just dont have time to even complete content.

Daviiid_ESO

They just need to put more resources into the production again, specifically the people working with back-end and the engine. Most likely the competent people for that have been moved to other projects already. They either need to be moved back to fix the issues with their current active game, or hire more people to do this.

Today in cyro in EU there were moments where just no spells were going out on EU. You could cast something every 5-6 seconds pretty much. And on many occasions people died far away from the group, but on their screen they were with the group which is another issue that appeared with elsewyr after they "fixed rollbacks". The rollbacks are still there just that you can't see them anymore making it even harder to play since the person getting it wont see it and can't call it out.

eso_lags

Daviiid_ESO

eso_lags wrote: »

They dont care or someone high up is preventing them from getting what they need o fix it while still putting out content.. Its all just sad.

Yeah most likely just going for short term profits from sales at this point rather than fixing the game and keeping a big and sustainable playerbase unfortunately.

kargen27

There is no or. Different teams work on troubleshooting and creating content. The skills needed differ between creating content and chasing down bugs.

Unfadingsilence

It finally happend to me tonight and its honestly a joke

https://youtu.be/jr2rMerdMVY

stpdmonkey

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

It finally happend to me tonight and its honestly a joke

https://youtu.be/jr2rMerdMVY

Seems alittle excessive. But I cant say I wasnt at the same point tonight. Running all 8 trials on normal. A thing my guild does every Saturday. And for 10 full minutes I couldnt do anything other light or heavy attack. Kept getting bounced around the map and at one point sent shooting off the side of a cliff sideways.

Unfadingsilence

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

It finally happend to me tonight and its honestly a joke

https://youtu.be/jr2rMerdMVY

Seems alittle excessive. But I cant say I wasnt at the same point tonight. Running all 8 trials on normal. A thing my guild does every Saturday. And for 10 full minutes I couldnt do anything other light or heavy attack. Kept getting bounced around the map and at one point sent shooting off the side of a cliff sideways.

Yah its honestly never happend to me like this until tonight it was horrible skills where not going off or hitting late I even messaged the guy letting them know I was making a video and posting it because he said it was even worse on there end

JumpmanLane

Crashed in Cyro. 3 try’s to get back in. Fix the game. Geeze.

Jeremy

stpdmonkey wrote: »

I am creating a poll to try and help press zos to possibly give the true players the game they want. Do note that it is understood new content will not stop. But maybe just maybe we can get a bigger focus on fixes started.

I don't believe this is an either or question. They should do both.

Druid40

Performance over content for now.