POLL: Performance fix or new content(vote and help show zos)

kargen27

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

It finally happend to me tonight and its honestly a joke

https://youtu.be/jr2rMerdMVY

you could have saved us three minutes.

Trancestor

The second poll option is fake news, ZOS haven't done a single thing to improve performance ever, they only made it worse with every patch.

Akrasjel

They are in a good financial situation and they can afford both if they would actually want it

Zer0oo

for such a big company as zos it should not be a problem to actually do both but i fear they are not willing to invest and are maximizing the short term profit.

Tigerseye

Iccotak wrote: »

Anyone that works in the online gaming industry will tell you this basic truth - You have to do Both fixes and add content.

You do, or should, but seeing as they don't seem to be able to handle both...

Tigerseye

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Anyone who bought Elsweyr has only themselves to blame for the current state of the game. You paid for an incomplete, buggy class on top of existing performance issues with the game. You rewarded ZoS for low quality work and for ignoring you when players gave feedback. If you want change, stop paying for things ZoS puts out until the game is fixed. It's really simple. A business will not see maintenance as a financial benefit until the player base boycotting their content gives them no choice but to fix the game to regain a profit.

Zos will choose to just stop supporting the game. They have soo much investment into the next games coming out that if eso plummets then they will just drop it.

If they just drop it (without carrying people's cosmetic purchases over into ESO 2) after people have put significant amounts of money into it, in many cases very recently, they will lose what little credibility they still have left.

So, they should be careful of that.

Tigerseye

Goregrinder wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

The dev has stated as previously stated that not everyone experiences the bugs and some skills are just alittle wonky and most cant tell. This is not the case. Almost everyone experiences the issues on a daily basis. The difference is that when everyone experiences the same problems only a few actually submit a ticket. If it is a bug everyone knows about how does zos not know. Just because new players do not understand that their problems are not just their playing and that it's the game doesn't mean they dont feel it. I know of quite a few people who felt like they just plain and simply sucked at the eso or something similar. They thought a few issues that had were their system or game or internet. But once discussed with them it was realized it was the game. Eso to blame. Their side is fine. Zos needs to take responsibility for their shortfalls and do something. Quit blaming our systems. Brand new and having issues. Cant stick in group chat keep loosing chat. Oh your system or internet is to blame. Once I kept fighting my dynamic IP was blamed. So zos expects everyone to play from a business class internet and pay our internet provider for a static ip which would more then double my cost. The amount of issues affect everyone. Its time for this to be realized

SO you've sat behind my computer chair and watched me play ESO to confirm whether I experience bugs or not?

Goregrinder, you have already stated (elsewhere on here) that you are here, trying to undermine any complaints, on the basis that you love ESO PVP and are terrified that complaints will cause ESO to be shut down.

Except, that is not how these things work.

Attempting to suppress legitimate complaints is not only impossible, but it is more likely to cause people to leave in disgust and thus, lead to the demise of the game you love.

You are in danger of creating your own worst case scenario, here.

eso_lags

lordrichter wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

You make it seem like the people who make the content, which is supposed to be a certain way, could not then turn around and fix the things they broke when they put the new content out that didnt Come out that certain way. Not talking server performance, but for that they should 10000% hire more people tot deal with it if they cant. And clearly they cant.

They do turn around and fix the content that they make. We have weekly patches that fix content that they make.

The systems that people are commenting on that need to be fixed, because they are not functioning as the developers intend, are a relatively small part of the game, and seem to be split between 'development' and 'operations'. These are different from other areas that make up content.

Should they add more people? It is easy to say "yes" to that from my leather recliner, here.

New people cost money, and they rarely come fully trained. The skills may be very specialized, or have a technical nuance that prevents just anyone from doing it. Finding someone, or training someone, can take months, and once that is done, it might take months for that person to complete the work, test it, and deliver it.

While we are sitting here complaining about lag, disconnects, LFG, or guild history (to name popular items), we have no idea what ZOS is doing, or how they are doing it. (Not really our business to know the details, either) All these things seem to hit a class of skill areas, and those might be in relatively short supply. While they might be important for new content, they are only a part of what goes into that new content.

They have said that LFG may take until the end of the year. Guild history fixes could possibly delay that, if the same skills are neded and developers with those skills are constrained. Both of these could interfere with, and delay, overall work on performance.

Have they hired, or found, more people to do this work? I certainly hope so, and about a year ago. It does look from here like they are too constrained in some technical areas. But... as has been said, there are limits to how effective this can be, and all of it has to fit inside the studio budget for the game.

ZOS needs to develop BOTH new content and fixes, concurrently. That is being efficient. They do not need to maintain the release schedule. I have long predicted that ZOS will dial back the DLC schedule, as the game is getting older and they are working on new projects, so this might be the time to do that, and it would be just what the people in this thread are asking for. They could make it sound like they are doing it for quality. In fact, they could change the investment strategy to allow them to move content developers to other projects. Systems and performance fixes could be done, and when finished, any extra systems and performance staff, now trained, are moved to other projects. Net effect is less bugs, and less ESO development expense moving forward.

What is the main thing you do in this game? What platform do you play on? I always like to ask because the experience is very different depending on what you do and where you play, of course. Im a pvp player on xbox, and have been for years. Idk where you are seeing weekly patches for bugs but its not on xbox.. Im not going to say zos never fixes something in a timely fashion, or that they never do a good job, butt most of the time we are dealing with the same bugs for months and years before they are either fixed or forgotten.

I could list many bugs that have been in the game for over a year with no resolution. But the performance problem is on a completely different level of messed up.

And are you really trying to say its not our business? And you're right we dont know about what they are doing because they dont communicate inn any meaningful way at all. Its one thing to be silent on smaller issues but this issue is waaaaaay to big to remain silent on. A couple years ago i would have agreed with you that its not our business, but not today. I have literally been posting about performance (overall performance decline) issues since around morrowind. We are in elsweyr and have only seen a downward spiral with performance in pvp, and now pve.

I mean i dont even consider the main campaign on xbox an option for pvp. Idk what the name is now but it was vivec. Its not even an option because it is, and has been for years, unplayable. And many of my friends do the same. And since the no CP campaign is dead on xbox all we have is the 7 day where, unless its pop locked, performance is decent. But its usually dead most of the time. All this comes down to an awful experience. Slow laggy game play or a dead campaign, good choices?

Ive actually been in the 30 day this week, only because the 7 day is incredibly dead since we got a new class and zone. And as usual it is truly unplayable.

Im pointing this all out to stress, once again, that the issue has gone too far for zos to be silent on it like they are. Its gone too far for them to not do something more to fix it, or let us know that they are. This *** is so unacceptable i dont know what to call it that wont get me in trouble again. There are no other words to describe the neglect here. Shameful maybe? There is no excuse for the state of this game.

And its funny how performance is getting some attention because of how bad it is, overall, this patch. Well guess what, its been like this for years in cyrodil. And its even worse on xbox (idk about ps4 but i would assume its worse there too). Sure, its bad on PC but on xbox its on another level. Idk, I guess we shouldn't expect a company to do the right thing, even when we give them years to do it. Too bad the pvp community in this game isn't big enough to get them to do something.

Probably shouldn't have hopped on here after a laggy night in pvp, but i did.. At least I can agree with you that they most likely will dial back dlcs eventually, i just don't think we will get the performance fixes we need. All I can hope for is something similar to one tamriel.. Drop a couple dlcs in exchange for one with some updates to sets, maybe touch up some older zones, but a main focus on fixing this mess.

And if anyone doesn't understand how bad the issues are im sure i could get some clips. Abysmal fps causing slow, clunky, and choppy gameplay. Constant health desyncs. Teleporting players. Skills becoming grey and/or being unusable. CC break an skills not working or taking 3-6+ seconds for instant cast skills. And more, its bad.

frostz417

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GaryA
Listen to your customers. Read this poll!!!

Elsonso

Tigerseye wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Anyone who bought Elsweyr has only themselves to blame for the current state of the game. You paid for an incomplete, buggy class on top of existing performance issues with the game. You rewarded ZoS for low quality work and for ignoring you when players gave feedback. If you want change, stop paying for things ZoS puts out until the game is fixed. It's really simple. A business will not see maintenance as a financial benefit until the player base boycotting their content gives them no choice but to fix the game to regain a profit.

Zos will choose to just stop supporting the game. They have soo much investment into the next games coming out that if eso plummets then they will just drop it.

If they just drop it (without carrying people's cosmetic purchases over into ESO 2) after people have put significant amounts of money into it, in many cases very recently, they will lose what little credibility they still have left.

So, they should be careful of that.

There does not appear to be an ESO2, at this time. Next up is Commander Keen, a cartoon multiplayer game based on an id game, for mobile, and an unnamed game that just started early development.

As for ZOS ending support for ESO, it does not appear that Commander Keen is going to take the flagship throne from ESO. ZOS will not shut down ESO in a void where nothing takes its place.

Tigerseye

lordrichter wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Anyone who bought Elsweyr has only themselves to blame for the current state of the game. You paid for an incomplete, buggy class on top of existing performance issues with the game. You rewarded ZoS for low quality work and for ignoring you when players gave feedback. If you want change, stop paying for things ZoS puts out until the game is fixed. It's really simple. A business will not see maintenance as a financial benefit until the player base boycotting their content gives them no choice but to fix the game to regain a profit.

Zos will choose to just stop supporting the game. They have soo much investment into the next games coming out that if eso plummets then they will just drop it.

If they just drop it (without carrying people's cosmetic purchases over into ESO 2) after people have put significant amounts of money into it, in many cases very recently, they will lose what little credibility they still have left.

So, they should be careful of that.

There does not appear to be an ESO2, at this time. Next up is Commander Keen, a cartoon multiplayer game based on an id game, for mobile, and an unnamed game that just started early development.

As for ZOS ending support for ESO, it does not appear that Commander Keen is going to take the flagship throne from ESO. ZOS will not shut down ESO in a void where nothing takes its place.

lol, well (Commander Keen, aside!) I was responding to those who seem to think ESO will close down if people compain and/or don't buy its latest offerings (due to issues with the game).

Some of whom seem to think ZoS are (secretly) working on an ESO2.

Basically, they're trying to use the threat of ESO being closed down to silence dissention.

Either because they genuinely (if wrongly) think it that will happen like that, or as a ploy to try to make the complainers think it might.

Rake

Edaphon wrote: »

What's a "true player"?

its fake player.
Regards,

TRVE KVLT

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Edaphon wrote: »

What's a "true player"?

he means everyone that's not a filthy casual and yes there is a big difference between casuals and filthy casuals lol and I quite agree...we mostly suffer cuz we are not heard...or we are but instead we got pushed aside...I mean how can they keep feeding money to their future mobile games right? ESO 2.0 everyone...coming on Android!

Elsonso

Well, I am a "true player", and I want content every quarter, without missing a beat. That is what keeps me here, spending money on the game and ESO Plus. I mix new content with repeat content. No new content means ZOS is not moving the game forward.

This does not mean they don't have to fix the game. They need to do both. Every quarter.

blkjag

Man I hope they listen to their custom base on this one

LiraTaurwen

blkjag wrote: »

Man I hope they listen to their custom base on this one

Looooooool they sure will....

stpdmonkey

I meant by true player as one who actually plays. Not those who log in do some farming in a area and log off. Those who run content and join with dungeons and trials. Run in pvp and any other content. Not just a simple only have base game and do some farming for gold.

frostz417

Need more people to vote

akl77

Fix those serious performance issues on ps4 na , the new contents aren’t worth those new serious performance issues.
So change your budgeting a bit

SpankinDamob

eso_lags wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

You make it seem like the people who make the content, which is supposed to be a certain way, could not then turn around and fix the things they broke when they put the new content out that didnt Come out that certain way. Not talking server performance, but for that they should 10000% hire more people tot deal with it if they cant. And clearly they cant.

They do turn around and fix the content that they make. We have weekly patches that fix content that they make.

The systems that people are commenting on that need to be fixed, because they are not functioning as the developers intend, are a relatively small part of the game, and seem to be split between 'development' and 'operations'. These are different from other areas that make up content.

Should they add more people? It is easy to say "yes" to that from my leather recliner, here.

New people cost money, and they rarely come fully trained. The skills may be very specialized, or have a technical nuance that prevents just anyone from doing it. Finding someone, or training someone, can take months, and once that is done, it might take months for that person to complete the work, test it, and deliver it.

While we are sitting here complaining about lag, disconnects, LFG, or guild history (to name popular items), we have no idea what ZOS is doing, or how they are doing it. (Not really our business to know the details, either) All these things seem to hit a class of skill areas, and those might be in relatively short supply. While they might be important for new content, they are only a part of what goes into that new content.

They have said that LFG may take until the end of the year. Guild history fixes could possibly delay that, if the same skills are neded and developers with those skills are constrained. Both of these could interfere with, and delay, overall work on performance.

Have they hired, or found, more people to do this work? I certainly hope so, and about a year ago. It does look from here like they are too constrained in some technical areas. But... as has been said, there are limits to how effective this can be, and all of it has to fit inside the studio budget for the game.

ZOS needs to develop BOTH new content and fixes, concurrently. That is being efficient. They do not need to maintain the release schedule. I have long predicted that ZOS will dial back the DLC schedule, as the game is getting older and they are working on new projects, so this might be the time to do that, and it would be just what the people in this thread are asking for. They could make it sound like they are doing it for quality. In fact, they could change the investment strategy to allow them to move content developers to other projects. Systems and performance fixes could be done, and when finished, any extra systems and performance staff, now trained, are moved to other projects. Net effect is less bugs, and less ESO development expense moving forward.

And are you really trying to say its not our business? And you're right we dont know about what they are doing because they dont communicate inn any meaningful way at all. Its one thing to be silent on smaller issues but this issue is waaaaaay to big to remain silent on. A couple years ago i would have agreed with you that its not our business, but not today. I have literally been posting about performance (overall performance decline) issues since around morrowind. We are in elsweyr and have only seen a downward spiral with performance in pvp, and now pve.

This is the thing that has baffled me the most. A good percentage of the Xbox NA server has had issues since the patch. To the point it’s unplayable at times. ZOS hasn’t said anything about it. I came to Eso a little over a year ago from WoW. One of the things they was good about when their patches screwed things up was posting about. Working with community to find temporary fixes till the could fix things on their end. While it sucks to have a patch screw things up it happens in Mmo’s. At least if the company acknowledges it and works to help people find temporary solutions it creates less feelings of animosity.

Ohtimbar

We shouldn't have to choose, but I think zos rolls with a skeleton crew, hence the lack of fixes, etc. I don't think they have enough people to do what needs to be done.

sp_korshun

Ohtimbar wrote: »

We shouldn't have to choose, but I think zos rolls with a skeleton crew, hence the lack of fixes, etc. I don't think they have enough people to do what needs to be done.

At one of old eso live somewhere in 2016 they said that the same people in their team create new content and fix bugs, so they're creating or fixing, but not both at one time. It was said cause they didn't fixed some bug with dlc patch at live server. So yeah, question at the begining of the thread is totally right.

stpdmonkey

sp_korshun wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

We shouldn't have to choose, but I think zos rolls with a skeleton crew, hence the lack of fixes, etc. I don't think they have enough people to do what needs to be done.

At one of old eso live somewhere in 2016 they said that the same people in their team create new content and fix bugs, so they're creating or fixing, but not both at one time. It was said cause they didn't fixed some bug with dlc patch at live server. So yeah, question at the begining of the thread is totally right.

If you are right and that's how it is then we will never see a fix. They focus on new content for money these days. They have said as stated in this posts comments that they wont focus on fixes because they dont affect gameplay and most players play at a level they dont notice them.

Elsonso

eso_lags wrote: »

And are you really trying to say its not our business? And you're right we dont know about what they are doing because they dont communicate inn any meaningful way at all.

Pretty much. We buy services from them. If we don't like what they are providing, we can stop paying for those services. We are not investors in the game, or the studio, we are customers. We have no business stake in what they are doing. How they go about legally performing their business is no business of ours. They can tell us that they are fixing things, or not. They have, and we can choose to believe them (or not), but we don't get to know the details unless they choose to tell us. They have not chosen to tell us.

Honestly, the customer level is as simple as it gets. We give them money, they give us something in return. If we don't like what they are giving, we don't give them money. If we have already given them the money, we ask for a refund. Simple.

We can't make them talk to us, we can't make them fix problems. We can ask, demand, chant, burn effigies of game devs, stream the burial of our characters, or whatever trips our fancy, but ZOS is going to be ZOS. ZOS is always going to be ZOS, and that includes being on the quiet side when it comes to communication about problems that customers are having.

eso_lags

SpankinDamob wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

You make it seem like the people who make the content, which is supposed to be a certain way, could not then turn around and fix the things they broke when they put the new content out that didnt Come out that certain way. Not talking server performance, but for that they should 10000% hire more people tot deal with it if they cant. And clearly they cant.

They do turn around and fix the content that they make. We have weekly patches that fix content that they make.

The systems that people are commenting on that need to be fixed, because they are not functioning as the developers intend, are a relatively small part of the game, and seem to be split between 'development' and 'operations'. These are different from other areas that make up content.

Should they add more people? It is easy to say "yes" to that from my leather recliner, here.

New people cost money, and they rarely come fully trained. The skills may be very specialized, or have a technical nuance that prevents just anyone from doing it. Finding someone, or training someone, can take months, and once that is done, it might take months for that person to complete the work, test it, and deliver it.

While we are sitting here complaining about lag, disconnects, LFG, or guild history (to name popular items), we have no idea what ZOS is doing, or how they are doing it. (Not really our business to know the details, either) All these things seem to hit a class of skill areas, and those might be in relatively short supply. While they might be important for new content, they are only a part of what goes into that new content.

They have said that LFG may take until the end of the year. Guild history fixes could possibly delay that, if the same skills are neded and developers with those skills are constrained. Both of these could interfere with, and delay, overall work on performance.

Have they hired, or found, more people to do this work? I certainly hope so, and about a year ago. It does look from here like they are too constrained in some technical areas. But... as has been said, there are limits to how effective this can be, and all of it has to fit inside the studio budget for the game.

ZOS needs to develop BOTH new content and fixes, concurrently. That is being efficient. They do not need to maintain the release schedule. I have long predicted that ZOS will dial back the DLC schedule, as the game is getting older and they are working on new projects, so this might be the time to do that, and it would be just what the people in this thread are asking for. They could make it sound like they are doing it for quality. In fact, they could change the investment strategy to allow them to move content developers to other projects. Systems and performance fixes could be done, and when finished, any extra systems and performance staff, now trained, are moved to other projects. Net effect is less bugs, and less ESO development expense moving forward.

And are you really trying to say its not our business? And you're right we dont know about what they are doing because they dont communicate inn any meaningful way at all. Its one thing to be silent on smaller issues but this issue is waaaaaay to big to remain silent on. A couple years ago i would have agreed with you that its not our business, but not today. I have literally been posting about performance (overall performance decline) issues since around morrowind. We are in elsweyr and have only seen a downward spiral with performance in pvp, and now pve.

This is the thing that has baffled me the most. A good percentage of the Xbox NA server has had issues since the patch. To the point it’s unplayable at times. ZOS hasn’t said anything about it. I came to Eso a little over a year ago from WoW. One of the things they was good about when their patches screwed things up was posting about. Working with community to find temporary fixes till the could fix things on their end. While it sucks to have a patch screw things up it happens in Mmo’s. At least if the company acknowledges it and works to help people find temporary solutions it creates less feelings of animosity.

Ya I can imagine it is baffling. I have never seen a game dev be so bad at fixing their game AND at communicating. And I have seen some bad devs.

And its been going on for much longer than a year, at least for pvp players. Ive been posting for over 2 years about it. Its just awful how they treat the game and the players.

eso_lags

lordrichter wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

And are you really trying to say its not our business? And you're right we dont know about what they are doing because they dont communicate inn any meaningful way at all.

Pretty much. We buy services from them. If we don't like what they are providing, we can stop paying for those services. We are not investors in the game, or the studio, we are customers. We have no business stake in what they are doing. How they go about legally performing their business is no business of ours. They can tell us that they are fixing things, or not. They have, and we can choose to believe them (or not), but we don't get to know the details unless they choose to tell us. They have not chosen to tell us.

Honestly, the customer level is as simple as it gets. We give them money, they give us something in return. If we don't like what they are giving, we don't give them money. If we have already given them the money, we ask for a refund. Simple.

We can't make them talk to us, we can't make them fix problems. We can ask, demand, chant, burn effigies of game devs, stream the burial of our characters, or whatever trips our fancy, but ZOS is going to be ZOS. ZOS is always going to be ZOS, and that includes being on the quiet side when it comes to communication about problems that customers are having.

Well thats where we can agree to disagree. Im not actually sure what you are trying to say here. Everyone knows there is nothing we can do except quit or stay and complain about it til enough people are with us tto get them too listen. And at least expose it too every single person that is willing to see what has ACTUALLY been going on, for years, so they know this is how this company treats their customers and maintains their game. At least people should know these things before buying future games from zos and bethesda.

Idk why you try to play it off like its such a simple cut and dry thing. Its not. And refunds? Ya ok.. People have been playing for years. Only the last 2 years have been absolutely shameful. Personally i planned on being a pvp player in this game until the game shut down. I spent money with that in mind. I never expected they would let things get this bad for years and be competently silent on it. Some people get into mmos for the long haul, why should anyone expect a dev would let things go to hell within the first 5 years? Especially betheseda and zos, although everyone is starting to see what bethesda is about, and many of us in this game have seen what zoos is about too.. Its one thing to be money hungry, that i can agree with, but its another thing to let your game become unplayable, continue to be money hungry, and act like everything is fine..

eso_lags

Amazing how the dev tracker is full of zos team members commenting on issues, and some other things, but i cant seem to find any comments on lag or performance... Strange considering its probably one of the most popular things to post about on here atm.. Strange, almost seems like they are told not to comment on it 🤔.

Im sure with so many people having issues they will comment soon enough, i just don't get why they stay silent. Regardless, comments or not, i doubt the pvp performance issues will be resolved.

idk

eso_lags wrote: »

idk wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

We'll exactly.

To those who keep saying that they are different departments, yes. I'm sure 99% of posters on this thread understand that the people doing the design are not also doing the coding. But the point is that with every release of new content, things get worse game-wide. Perhaps if they delayed the release for a short while and fixed some performance issues, it might help. No need for he designers to down tools.

Of course, it might be that the issues are unfixable and Zos are aware of that, so are releasing content to milk it, knowing the game only has a finite shelf life. Would explain the utter lack of communication.

Even though you mention it you still actually ignore that not everyone has the skill set to work on bugs. That means you are actually suggesting Zos pay these people to do nothing or lay them off. Neither makes sense and it really is that simple.

You also ignore that last time Zos ceased releasing product people quit the game. A large number never returned. Half of my first guild never returned to the game after PC 1.6. Across the board that adds up to serious money losses and it is real.

And yes, most probably understand this when they really think of it as most work places probably have a degree of specialization. Heck, it has been ages since I worked on a team where most actually knew what I did and how I did it. Of course the group I work in is full of people with similar experience but we all work on different teams.

You make it seem like the people who make the content, which is supposed to be a certain way, could not then turn around and fix the things they broke when they put the new content out that didnt Come out that certain way.

You make it seem as though everyone that works for Zos is a programmer and it should be obvious that is far from the case. So the sound people, graphic artists, story writers and such are often not able to find and fix issues with the game.

This is common and normal team type settings with game studios. So if it seems that I am saying that not everyone involved in creating new content has the skill set necessary for fixing bugs in the game then congratulations. You understand perfectly.

It is pretty much this way in any business that has a heavy technical aspect to it.

HairyFairy

refresh poll

Doc45

You introduced bias in your description of why you're conducting the poll, so it's likely ZOS will see the results as invalid. Were you looking for more of a petition?