POLL: Performance fix or new content(vote and help show zos)

Daviiid_ESO

ArenGesus wrote: »

Tabatha wrote: »

I’m on xbox NA and the lag is edging closer and closer to unbearable, for example: i was tanking a dungeon and adds spawned after I passed their spawn point. I try puncturing and it takes forever... skills dont fire, I have to hit the button again and guess what now it double fires, it is wasting my resources and trying my patience.

This is like a bad relationship. I know I COULD DO BETTER THAN YOU. You’re not even trying, and I’m only around because I have so much time invested. I guess I’ll start looking around, got to be someone that will treat me better.

I think I'm just going the eunuch route, because the sad truth is that there aren't other games out there that interest me at the moment. Your metaphor is spot on though- a lot of people are here due to previous time invested only, myself included. But not after Rich's farce of an explanation for why performance is so bad (ie, it just happened recently due to the guild finder... it definitely wasn't bad before that). The only poll that matters is the one where you vote with your wallet and my last straw is already on top of the load. My SSD is losing so much weight today.

Yep, they will say they fixed the performance and server issues after that patch, close all the threads and polls related to performance issues and say that it is fixed and after that keep on ignoring the state of PC EU and Cyrodiil.

itscompton

lordrichter wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

You make it seem like the people who make the content, which is supposed to be a certain way, could not then turn around and fix the things they broke when they put the new content out that didnt Come out that certain way. Not talking server performance, but for that they should 10000% hire more people tot deal with it if they cant. And clearly they cant.

They do turn around and fix the content that they make. We have weekly patches that fix content that they make.

The systems that people are commenting on that need to be fixed, because they are not functioning as the developers intend, are a relatively small part of the game, and seem to be split between 'development' and 'operations'. These are different from other areas that make up content.

Should they add more people? It is easy to say "yes" to that from my leather recliner, here.

New people cost money, and they rarely come fully trained. The skills may be very specialized, or have a technical nuance that prevents just anyone from doing it. Finding someone, or training someone, can take months, and once that is done, it might take months for that person to complete the work, test it, and deliver it.

While we are sitting here complaining about lag, disconnects, LFG, or guild history (to name popular items), we have no idea what ZOS is doing, or how they are doing it. (Not really our business to know the details, either) All these things seem to hit a class of skill areas, and those might be in relatively short supply. While they might be important for new content, they are only a part of what goes into that new content.

They have said that LFG may take until the end of the year. Guild history fixes could possibly delay that, if the same skills are neded and developers with those skills are constrained. Both of these could interfere with, and delay, overall work on performance.

Have they hired, or found, more people to do this work? I certainly hope so, and about a year ago. It does look from here like they are too constrained in some technical areas. But... as has been said, there are limits to how effective this can be, and all of it has to fit inside the studio budget for the game.

ZOS needs to develop BOTH new content and fixes, concurrently. That is being efficient. They do not need to maintain the release schedule. I have long predicted that ZOS will dial back the DLC schedule, as the game is getting older and they are working on new projects, so this might be the time to do that, and it would be just what the people in this thread are asking for. They could make it sound like they are doing it for quality. In fact, they could change the investment strategy to allow them to move content developers to other projects. Systems and performance fixes could be done, and when finished, any extra systems and performance staff, now trained, are moved to other projects. Net effect is less bugs, and less ESO development expense moving forward.

They have weekly server MAINTENANCE, not patches. And they haven't dropped a patch that fixes any of the significant broad issues such as lag, DC's, random loading screens, stuck in combat, etc. in the last couple of years. I do remember a very brief window a couple of years ago (lasted maybe a month) when they had actually fixed "stuck in combat" to drop off after three seconds of not taking or doing damage. Then it got broke again and has been ever since.
Until a little over a year ago the only time you got hit with a random loading screen in Cyrodiil was being at a keep when it was flipped, now it happens everywhere on the map and at any time, often to one faction but not the other right as a fight is about to start. That's a HUGE game altering bug that was introduced with new content and has been untouched for over a year.

jao0199

[Sarcasm]
Dont worry guys, Todd said that there is new servers coming soon...

Elsonso

itscompton wrote: »

They have weekly server MAINTENANCE, not patches. And they haven't dropped a patch that fixes any of the significant broad issues such as lag, DC's, random loading screens, stuck in combat, etc. in the last couple of years. I do remember a very brief window a couple of years ago (lasted maybe a month) when they had actually fixed "stuck in combat" to drop off after three seconds of not taking or doing damage. Then it got broke again and has been ever since.
Until a little over a year ago the only time you got hit with a random loading screen in Cyrodiil was being at a keep when it was flipped, now it happens everywhere on the map and at any time, often to one faction but not the other right as a fight is about to start. That's a HUGE game altering bug that was introduced with new content and has been untouched for over a year.

They do fix things. Almost every week. If they don't fix something you are interested in, that does not mean they don't fix other things.

I am not going to say they are some paragon of quality. They are not. They aren't very good at all with overall quality, and sometimes they break something used to work, but they do fix things, and that at least leaves the door open for them to fix the bugs you want them to fix.

ArenGesus

lordrichter wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

They have weekly server MAINTENANCE, not patches. And they haven't dropped a patch that fixes any of the significant broad issues such as lag, DC's, random loading screens, stuck in combat, etc. in the last couple of years. I do remember a very brief window a couple of years ago (lasted maybe a month) when they had actually fixed "stuck in combat" to drop off after three seconds of not taking or doing damage. Then it got broke again and has been ever since.
Until a little over a year ago the only time you got hit with a random loading screen in Cyrodiil was being at a keep when it was flipped, now it happens everywhere on the map and at any time, often to one faction but not the other right as a fight is about to start. That's a HUGE game altering bug that was introduced with new content and has been untouched for over a year.

They do fix things. Almost every week. If they don't fix something you are interested in, that does not mean they don't fix other things.

I am not going to say they are some paragon of quality. They are not. They aren't very good at all with overall quality, and sometimes they break something used to work, but they do fix things, and that at least leaves the door open for them to fix the bugs you want them to fix.

Yay! I can now light attack to unsheathe my weapon again! Isn't it wonderful that they fixed a bug? What shall I do with my ready weapon? Shall I go into a dungeo... no. PVp... no. Trial... [sheathes weapon and logs out].

itscompton

The following is a quote from an article talking with the live content manager of the Division 2:

For the sequel, Ubisoft structured more development resources to the long-term health of the game. He said more developers are assigned to keeping the sequel running well post-launch. “It’s in the work pipeline of the dev team,” he said. “There is more time allocated to it. It’s prioritized differently to make sure we can actually fix the game, and I believe it shows in the actual stability and quality of the game.”

The quote above makes it clear that game performance/health is the product of a choice as to how many monetary resources (ie developer work hours) gaming companies are willing to devote.
So to those of you saying content development and bug fixing/QA are different teams: while you might be technically correct you're ignoring the reality that those teams are each being given a certain amount of budgetary resources by ZOS. Considering game performance has deteriorated to nearly unplayable levels it's obvious they need to greatly increase the amount of developer work hours spent fixing bugs.

Elsonso

itscompton wrote: »

The quote above makes it clear that game performance/health is the product of a choice as to how many monetary resources (ie developer work hours) gaming companies are willing to devote.

If they are coming out and saying it, it is not standard practice. They think they are doing something extraordinary. Taking the extra step. Going above and beyond.

Of course, we know that this sort of thing is not in their nature, which is why they have to say stuff like that.

I see these things as a leadership failings. That person at Ubisoft is making that statement because there was a leadership failure. Someone there decided that it was time to change, and so statements were made. ZOS is slow to fix bugs because of similar failings.

ZOS does fix things, even if it is a secondary priority. They can do both new DLC packs and roll out significant bug fixes, if they are willing to spend the time and money to do them both. If they are not, then we will just get fewer bug fixes.

Now, obviously, we cannot know what we don't know, and ZOS may actually have significant and expensive resources working on things that simply take so long to complete that it appears that they are doing nothing about it. I assume they are doing something... Occasionally, they make casual references to such work that will be done sometime in the murky future.

pdblake

I've not played since before Christmas because of the lag I was experiencing. I only logged into the forums today to see what the current situation is. Seems it's not changed.

Sad, because I really like the game and willingly pay for it, but they've lost my money because of this.

Sansoul

Edaphon wrote: »

What's a "true player"?

A "true player" is the elite group that every kid thinks he belongs too and that no one else matters. Every kid puts themselves up on that soap box looking down on everyone else. And thus was born the most toxic era in the history of this country.

Bam_Bam

681 VOTES 83% IN FAVOUR OF FIXES.

When one considers that the poll isn't even 2 weeks old yet, well - that's a pretty telling (if not damning) statistic of the state of the game, performance-wise.

If ZoS committed to doing this, I'd actually invest more time and money into the game. Art-wise and graphically, the last 3 updates have been superb and it's amazing to look at some of that scenery - breathtaking stuff.

But the bugs and glitches have almost completely masked that. It would be nice just to walk around Elsweyr, Summerset, and Vvardenfell on a horse and just soaking up the scenery. Instead of sprinting on a treadmill the poor thing's back.

But instead, I find myself getting crabby because the shield animation persists, even when I'm trying to buy something from a vendor. Or having to wait 1-2 seconds just to make sure that you HAVE, actually, killed that terror-bird just because the death animation is messed up. etc. etc. etc...

Elsonso

Sansoul wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

What's a "true player"?

A "true player" is the elite group that every kid thinks he belongs too and that no one else matters. Every kid puts themselves up on that soap box looking down on everyone else. And thus was born the most toxic era in the history of this country.

Yup, that's me, now go away.

Bam_Bam wrote: »

681 VOTES 83% IN FAVOUR OF FIXES.

When one considers that the poll isn't even 2 weeks old yet, well - that's a pretty telling (if not damning) statistic of the state of the game, performance-wise.

If ZoS committed to doing this, I'd actually invest more time and money into the game. Art-wise and graphically, the last 3 updates have been superb and it's amazing to look at some of that scenery - breathtaking stuff.

But the bugs and glitches have almost completely masked that. It would be nice just to walk around Elsweyr, Summerset, and Vvardenfell on a horse and just soaking up the scenery. Instead of sprinting on a treadmill the poor thing's back.

But instead, I find myself getting crabby because the shield animation persists, even when I'm trying to buy something from a vendor. Or having to wait 1-2 seconds just to make sure that you HAVE, actually, killed that terror-bird just because the death animation is messed up. etc. etc. etc...

The poll is meaningless. Well, let me phrase that differently... it does not tell ZOS anything they do not already know. They don't even really need to be reminded, which is about the only thing the poll does. Well, other than allow players to vent and get it out of their system. That is really what these threads do.

stpdmonkey

lordrichter wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

What's a "true player"?

A "true player" is the elite group that every kid thinks he belongs too and that no one else matters. Every kid puts themselves up on that soap box looking down on everyone else. And thus was born the most toxic era in the history of this country.

Yup, that's me, now go away.

Bam_Bam wrote: »

681 VOTES 83% IN FAVOUR OF FIXES.

When one considers that the poll isn't even 2 weeks old yet, well - that's a pretty telling (if not damning) statistic of the state of the game, performance-wise.

If ZoS committed to doing this, I'd actually invest more time and money into the game. Art-wise and graphically, the last 3 updates have been superb and it's amazing to look at some of that scenery - breathtaking stuff.

But the bugs and glitches have almost completely masked that. It would be nice just to walk around Elsweyr, Summerset, and Vvardenfell on a horse and just soaking up the scenery. Instead of sprinting on a treadmill the poor thing's back.

But instead, I find myself getting crabby because the shield animation persists, even when I'm trying to buy something from a vendor. Or having to wait 1-2 seconds just to make sure that you HAVE, actually, killed that terror-bird just because the death animation is messed up. etc. etc. etc...

The poll is meaningless. Well, let me phrase that differently... it does not tell ZOS anything they do not already know. They don't even really need to be reminded, which is about the only thing the poll does. Well, other than allow players to vent and get it out of their system. That is really what these threads do.

So please leave this poll and go do nothing. This is an attempt to try and I will keep putting attempts out there. As I hope others do also. If no one says or does anything then they will for sure do nothing. So that's your choice. Dont tell us we are basically wasting our time. Let us do what we can. This poll has started a petition also. So yes people are actually attempting to. And with enough something will happen. They cant ignore it. Or eventually they will loose players and money. This poll is to get enough people to have a voice in one place. When its spread between 100 forum posts its alot easier to ignore

MCBIZZLE300

Anyone who voted otherwise is out of their minds. The game is almost unplayable on ps4 rn as im sure it is xbox too. Are they not embarissed to advertise a game with fancy cinematic trailers that runs like absolute ass?

frostz417

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

HEBREWHAMMERRR

I’m waiting for the “we’re aware and looking in to this issue! It’s on the table for late Q4!...of 2020”

HEBREWHAMMERRR

I finally convinced my 2vX duo to come back after months of destroying blackout. Unfortunately we’re hopping back on CoD next week because these developers have let us down time and time again with zero timetable for a fix. There’s several other familiar faces from my guild of 4+ years making returns and this is what they come back to? There just seems like such minimal effort for a new release like this and it’s seemimg more and more like a cash grab with the complete silence in regards to even an acknowledgement.

idk

Daviiid_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

idk wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

idk wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

We'll exactly.

To those who keep saying that they are different departments, yes. I'm sure 99% of posters on this thread understand that the people doing the design are not also doing the coding. But the point is that with every release of new content, things get worse game-wide. Perhaps if they delayed the release for a short while and fixed some performance issues, it might help. No need for he designers to down tools.

Of course, it might be that the issues are unfixable and Zos are aware of that, so are releasing content to milk it, knowing the game only has a finite shelf life. Would explain the utter lack of communication.

Even though you mention it you still actually ignore that not everyone has the skill set to work on bugs. That means you are actually suggesting Zos pay these people to do nothing or lay them off. Neither makes sense and it really is that simple.

You also ignore that last time Zos ceased releasing product people quit the game. A large number never returned. Half of my first guild never returned to the game after PC 1.6. Across the board that adds up to serious money losses and it is real.

And yes, most probably understand this when they really think of it as most work places probably have a degree of specialization. Heck, it has been ages since I worked on a team where most actually knew what I did and how I did it. Of course the group I work in is full of people with similar experience but we all work on different teams.

You make it seem like the people who make the content, which is supposed to be a certain way, could not then turn around and fix the things they broke when they put the new content out that didnt Come out that certain way.

You make it seem as though everyone that works for Zos is a programmer and it should be obvious that is far from the case. So the sound people, graphic artists, story writers and such are often not able to find and fix issues with the game.

This is common and normal team type settings with game studios. So if it seems that I am saying that not everyone involved in creating new content has the skill set necessary for fixing bugs in the game then congratulations. You understand perfectly.

It is pretty much this way in any business that has a heavy technical aspect to it.

Im not saying the sound guy is going to fix the elsweyr performance issues

You are correct that not all have the skill set to work on bugs, That is exactly what I have been saying. Those people either get paid to do nothing or get laid off and have to start looking for a new opportunity. If they are laid off then Zos loses their story writers, graphical artists and others that they would then have to search for new talent.

Or again, those people get paid to do nothing, which they might like.

This also has nothing to do with Zos adding to the team that does work on bugs, but that is not what OP is asking. The OP asks if ZOs should shut down operations on new content and fix bugs or should just keep working on new content which is the fatal flaw in their argument and why it is a bad business choice across the board.

No, they have several ongoing projects at a time, why would you want to fire everyone? Biggest issue is just that all competent programmers and those who work with the engine and back-end performance probably have been moved away from ESO a long time ago to other projects.

You are putting words into my mouth in an attempt to make a point. I never suggested firing anyone let alone everyone as your question seems to be suggesting I have said. I am wise enough to know the entire idea put forth in this thread to cease working on new content so bugs can become the focus is a poor business idea based on the obvious history of this game.

Further, the idea put forth in this thread is calling for a moratorium on creating new content so those ongolign projects cease to progress and are irrelevant to bring up as you have.

I have merely pointed out the very solid fact that if Zos were to cease creating new content as is suggested to work on bug fixes then Zos would have to fire those who do not have the skill sets to work on bug fixes or to pay them to do nothing.

acw37162 wrote: »

Go ahead try a quarter w/o new content, see what happens

This is what I pointed out earlier. Players leave. Revenue drops. Zos found this did not work out well last time. Granted, Zos needs to do a better Zos "killing it" but I doubt we see much improvement as long as Matt is at the helm.

acw37162

Go ahead try a quarter w/o new content, see what happens

JackDaniell

Crown store is performing fine, what you talkin bout?

HEBREWHAMMERRR

acw37162 wrote: »

Go ahead try a quarter w/o new content, see what happens

If they fixed a quarter of the bugs rampant in the game? Probably a very healthy happy player base.

Cążki

Very good poll clean and true. Now ZOS should get clean answear about his game.

Elsonso

stpdmonkey wrote: »

This is an attempt to try and I will keep putting attempts out there. As I hope others do also. If no one says or does anything then they will for sure do nothing. So that's your choice. Dont tell us we are basically wasting our time. Let us do what we can. This poll has started a petition also. So yes people are actually attempting to. And with enough something will happen. They cant ignore it. Or eventually they will loose players and money. This poll is to get enough people to have a voice in one place. When its spread between 100 forum posts its alot easier to ignore

I'm not saying don't make the poll, or open the forum threads. I am saying that ZOS already knows these things. We've only been complaining about performance for years, now. It's not like they see this poll and suddenly realize that there is a problem. People at ZOS probably agree with many things that are said in this thread, and some probably agree with the outcome of the poll. They play the game, too, and I am sure that they have the same performance and lag problems as everyone else.

I just don't want anyone to be under the illusion that this thread, above all the ones that came before it, is The Thread that will rally the players and spur ZOS into action and cause them to stop and fix what is broken with the game. The topic of performance, and even doing a fix update, have been discussed many times before. Polls. Discussions. Streams. On and off the forum. I am sure it is even mentioned at conventions and other places where people meet-and-greet with Studio employees. None of that would happen without the hope that ZOS would listen, and then subsequently follow through.

My guess is that they will stay the course for as long as they can. Roll out DLC and work on fixes at the same time, as they have been doing. If they have a criteria in place, it will be like with the Champion Points hold. Additional DLC might need to be halted while they fix the game because the game engine, servers, or whatever cannot actually handle a new DLC. One can argue that this should have happened before Group Finder, and maybe that will be what makes ZOS consider a fix update more seriously.

I kid myself on that last part, though. They are not going to stop everything and focus on fixing things.

Besides, if they did a fix update, it would not be enough. They would need more than one fix update, and the first one they released would be met with "that's all you did?" comments. They would pretty much have to spend a year doing this: Year of the Bug Fixes. My guess is that many people would simply leave the game.

Girl_Number8

Fix the performance. There really isn't much need to think about it, it is long overdue.

Daviiid_ESO

Not a single post from zos acknowledging the problems exist. Amazing.

Daviiid_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno any updates or will these issues keep on being ignored?

idk

Daviiid_ESO wrote: »

Not a single post from zos acknowledging the problems exist. Amazing.

Zos would have not reason to post in this thread as this thread is based in a lack of understanding of how game developer teams are build.

Look at the Dev Tracker and pinned threads if you want their acknowledgement.

Daviiid_ESO

idk wrote: »

Daviiid_ESO wrote: »

Not a single post from zos acknowledging the problems exist. Amazing.

Zos would have not reason to post in this thread as this thread is based in a lack of understanding of how game developer teams are build.

Look at the Dev Tracker and pinned threads if you want their acknowledgement.

Of course there's a reason to post in this or any other thread or an official statement instead of ignoring the issues. Resources on the technical side have obviously been moved away from ESO years ago and it's not sustainable anymore, the game isn't working properly for a lot of people and EU server performance has been garbage for a really long time and is only getting worse patch by patch.

It's a relevant poll because it shows that a lot of people have issues with the fps and lag issues in the game. Why you want to defend them ignoring obvious issues shown by the many threads and polls about the performance is beyond me.

stpdmonkey

I have come to the decision people cant read. It's been said multiple times we get the way developers and everything works. The point of this is to bring everyone together in one place instead of 800 different posts. It's a push to show they need to bring resources to fixes instead of ignoring it. The last patch for ps4 made things even worse. Supposedly it fixed things I had not heard of and now it's a problem. I'm starting to think they are trying to push people off this game to one of their others.

Edaphon

stpdmonkey wrote: »

The point of this is to bring everyone together in one place instead of 800 different posts.

And in order to achieve that you made the 801st post about. Yeah, that'll help.

GenjiraX

Please heed this poll. Please.