Is Necromancer Goliath Bash Spam intended?

Morgul667

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We've seen your feedback and concerns about the Pummeling Goliath ability and the detrimental impact it is currently having in PvP content. As a result, we have some significant changes coming for the ability and other related mechanics in next week's incremental patch. Watch for full details in the patch notes on Monday.

Now im scared. What apocalypse will happen on monday xD

Solariken

Goliath bash is absolutely ridiculous. Being strictly OP wouldn't be a huge deal, but it almost always desyncs and has no elevation limit.

9 times out of 10 I just fall over 100-0 instantly and check my recap to find 3-4 bashes for 9k each. >:[

RedTalon

Cool glad I leveled mjy necromancer fully already so can deal with the nerfs more easily, say good by to the necromancer class just like wardens till following patches lol

Sybreed_Neurodrive

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Sybreed_Neurodrive wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Hm, I wonder if any of the other sorely needed Necro adjustments will be occurring in the coming patch too?

Nah they gonna leave this worthless class at bottom tier and then remove the only thing it has going for it... bash bs- Unfortunately

That's not true, im playing magicka necromancer in pvp, my new main and i have no issues with dmg or sustain, i won't share my secrets tho. self made build

No, he's absolutely correct - Magicka Necromancer is hands down the worst class in the game right now. Until I see some hard evidence, I will continue to dismiss these claims of, "Magicka Necromancer is great, you guys just don't know about my super secret build" out of hand. Playing in low MMR BGs and/or "potato mashing" in Cyrodiil can warp one's perspective; good kill/death ratios are very possible in those scenarios even on a class that's really bad.

What platform are you on? If it's PC-NA, I could get you duo queued into some high MMR BGs and let you see what's really going on with Magicka Necromancer. Going up against people that have good damage, positioning, etc...causes Magicka Necromancer to fall apart. The Colossus Ultimate with a full premade coordinating other ults/roots/snares/etc...is pretty strong, but outside of that the class is just garbage when it's actually pushed to the limit.

Well i can't force you to believe me, it's really up to you what you want to believe.
And no i don't play on NA, im PC EU
I'm going to continue improving my mag necro build, and im still having a blast playing it.

Raudgrani

Of course it's intended. There's a certain DC guild leader running it now on Xbox EU, spamming mighty 2,5K bashes (LOL) whenever he can. Fortunately enough, I can already see a steady decrease in this sort of playstyle - and fortunately too, his bashes are very very weak. I can't think of anyone else using this as key element in their playstyle anymore.

Biggest problem I have, is that sometimes you can't see that they have turned Goliath, because of lag etc., or simply because it's too crowded and too much AOE for you too actually see it.
In general, it feels more like a "defensive attack", because it doesn't reach very far, and because you can't really move and bash at the same time. I guess this is the "OP thing" about this class, so far. There needs to be something broken with new stuff, in order for people to actually buy it.

eovogtb16_ESO

Holy *** they actually buffed the god damn skill. Well won't be pvping for a while I guess.

Seraphayel

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

Holy *** they actually buffed the god damn skill. *** this game I'm done.

No they didn't.

eovogtb16_ESO

Sounds like a buff to me

• Pummeling Goliath: 

• The bash attack from this ability will no longer target bridges or targets behind you in some circumstances.

• The bash attack will now always cost resources, instead of only costing resources if you hit a target. 

• Increased the arc from this attack to better match the visual effects. 

• The special Bash augment will now use both your Weapon Damage and Stamina, rather than just Weapon Damage. This Ultimate will now also scale dynamically and use your Spell Damage and Max Magicka if they are higher, which is a standard for our Ultimates that scale off your offensive stats.

Seraphayel

Yeah because you left out the change they made to the S&B passive that buffed bash damage. That was changed from +100% damage to a flat amount of weapon/spell damage.

eovogtb16_ESO

Yes instead of 100% more damage it's 500 weapon damage which is not going to be a huge change. Instead they increased the radius and nerfed the damage by a minimal amount. People are still going to be steamrolled this isn't going to change anything.

SodanTok

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes instead of 100% more damage it's 500 weapon damage which is not going to be a huge change. Instead they increased the radius and nerfed the damage by a minimal amount. People are still going to be steamrolled this isn't going to change anything.

How is it not going to be huge change. Why do you come here and talk stuff and know nothing at all.

On any 5k weapon damage buff the 100% more damage was +- (without CP or other damage buffs) equal to, surprise surprise, getting 5k more weapon damage for bash.

Akinos

Okay so i just tried the magicka bash necro a few times, its not worth it. At all. The bash costs stamina still, and even on a magicka build with 20k max stamina, i ran out in seconds. The damage isn't there either, I transformed with 500 ult with a balorg/clever/julianos setup and never did more then 3k to anybody. Maybe if you had high physical penetration as magicka, it might do some damage. Still wouldnt be worth though imo, because of stam costs ><

It just makes you a giant target, because everybody thinks youre a stam necro doing it. Except you don't have the damage or survivablity of a stam necro.

IF anybody has any better results with magicka bash necro please let us know.

Agrippa_Invisus

And how are the stam necros doing now after the update?

leepalmer95

SodanTok wrote: »

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes instead of 100% more damage it's 500 weapon damage which is not going to be a huge change. Instead they increased the radius and nerfed the damage by a minimal amount. People are still going to be steamrolled this isn't going to change anything.

How is it not going to be huge change. Why do you come here and talk stuff and know nothing at all.

On any 5k weapon damage buff the 100% more damage was +- (without CP or other damage buffs) equal to, surprise surprise, getting 5k more weapon damage for bash.

But think of it this way.

1050 stam is roughly 100 wpn dmg.

So a 5k wpn dmg build would of got the equiv of a 10k wpn dmg bash with s&b.

Now that 5k wpn dmg build gets 500 from s&b + 30-30k stamina so roughly 3000- 3500 wpn dmg from that.

So it won't be quite 10k wpn dmg bashes but it'll be close.


Its more of a nerf to the extreme infused bash glyphs, 6k wpn dmg builds.

katorga

I'm kind of curious just how much of a nerf this will be. What they should have done is make it scale off health to keep it in line with the other morph and the tanking skills in the tree.

Assuming 5K damage 30K stam.

Pre-nerf you have 5K damage * 2 (S&B passive) for bash = 10K effective damage.

Post nerf, you have 5K damage + 500 damage (new S&B passive) + 30K stam = 8.5K effective damage.

So around a 15% nerf, but it now works for magicka builds as well as stamina.

Yet still NO fixes for the other buggy skills.

Berenhir

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes instead of 100% more damage it's 500 weapon damage which is not going to be a huge change. Instead they increased the radius and nerfed the damage by a minimal amount. People are still going to be steamrolled this isn't going to change anything.

How is it not going to be huge change. Why do you come here and talk stuff and know nothing at all.

On any 5k weapon damage buff the 100% more damage was +- (without CP or other damage buffs) equal to, surprise surprise, getting 5k more weapon damage for bash.

But think of it this way.

1050 stam is roughly 100 wpn dmg.

So a 5k wpn dmg build would of got the equiv of a 10k wpn dmg bash with s&b.

Now that 5k wpn dmg build gets 500 from s&b + 30-30k stamina so roughly 3000- 3500 wpn dmg from that.

So it won't be quite 10k wpn dmg bashes but it'll be close.


Its more of a nerf to the extreme infused bash glyphs, 6k wpn dmg builds.

That's not the way it works. The damage from stamina has not been simply added to the equation but the influence of weapon damage has been halved, effectively double nerfing SnB builds as WD has a 40-60% higher modifier than Stamina.

So bash damage is cut by 40% - 50% depending on your build.

Dinokstrun

Bash is awful now, the damage isn't the worst part. The animation is gone all sluggish and there's a delay on the bash too. I've tested the ability and after every 2 bashes I get some kind of delay before the next bash can be used. I can see this ultimate becoming rather unusable now.

Agrippa_Invisus

Dinokstrun wrote: »

Bash is awful now, the damage isn't the worst part. The animation is gone all sluggish and there's a delay on the bash too. I've tested the ability and after every 2 bashes I get some kind of delay before the next bash can be used. I can see this ultimate becoming rather unusable now.

Is it possible they added in something to slow down the attacks per second? (since they were very fast pre-patch)

I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot to slip it into the patch notes.

I've been reading on other threads that the damage nerf is nearly half the original tooltip. Is that what everyone else is seeing?

Vizikul

Synozeer wrote: »

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

Woohoo, my oil pour is famous!

@Synozeer I thought 5 stars are maximum. How come the screenshot displays you with 6 stars? Is that a display bug?

Ahtu

@Agrippa_Invisus Yup. Damage was cut in half. Between sword and board passives changes and Goliath resource usage bashes are only hitting for around 2k now.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Berenhir wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes instead of 100% more damage it's 500 weapon damage which is not going to be a huge change. Instead they increased the radius and nerfed the damage by a minimal amount. People are still going to be steamrolled this isn't going to change anything.

How is it not going to be huge change. Why do you come here and talk stuff and know nothing at all.

On any 5k weapon damage buff the 100% more damage was +- (without CP or other damage buffs) equal to, surprise surprise, getting 5k more weapon damage for bash.

But think of it this way.

1050 stam is roughly 100 wpn dmg.

So a 5k wpn dmg build would of got the equiv of a 10k wpn dmg bash with s&b.

Now that 5k wpn dmg build gets 500 from s&b + 30-30k stamina so roughly 3000- 3500 wpn dmg from that.

So it won't be quite 10k wpn dmg bashes but it'll be close.


Its more of a nerf to the extreme infused bash glyphs, 6k wpn dmg builds.

That's not the way it works. The damage from stamina has not been simply added to the equation but the influence of weapon damage has been halved, effectively double nerfing SnB builds as WD has a 40-60% higher modifier than Stamina.

So bash damage is cut by 40% - 50% depending on your build.

Most of the bash builds are running wepdam burst sets like clever alch, balorgh, fury, 7th et cetera and peaking at huge amounts of weapon damage during their ult window. Most of these builds are going to suffer a lot with the new changes since so little of their damage is coming from max stam.

Honestly, these changes might be all that’s needed to bring bashcro into line.

Agrippa_Invisus

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes instead of 100% more damage it's 500 weapon damage which is not going to be a huge change. Instead they increased the radius and nerfed the damage by a minimal amount. People are still going to be steamrolled this isn't going to change anything.

How is it not going to be huge change. Why do you come here and talk stuff and know nothing at all.

On any 5k weapon damage buff the 100% more damage was +- (without CP or other damage buffs) equal to, surprise surprise, getting 5k more weapon damage for bash.

But think of it this way.

1050 stam is roughly 100 wpn dmg.

So a 5k wpn dmg build would of got the equiv of a 10k wpn dmg bash with s&b.

Now that 5k wpn dmg build gets 500 from s&b + 30-30k stamina so roughly 3000- 3500 wpn dmg from that.

So it won't be quite 10k wpn dmg bashes but it'll be close.


Its more of a nerf to the extreme infused bash glyphs, 6k wpn dmg builds.

That's not the way it works. The damage from stamina has not been simply added to the equation but the influence of weapon damage has been halved, effectively double nerfing SnB builds as WD has a 40-60% higher modifier than Stamina.

So bash damage is cut by 40% - 50% depending on your build.

Most of the bash builds are running wepdam burst sets like clever alch, balorgh, fury, 7th et cetera and peaking at huge amounts of weapon damage during their ult window. Most of these builds are going to suffer a lot with the new changes since so little of their damage is coming from max stam.

Honestly, these changes might be all that’s needed to bring bashcro into line.

Well, if the ulti is in line with others at this point, then necro now needs to focus on how badly it suffers at pretty much everything but said ulti. The class is weak at the best of times, and easily replaced with any other focused on the same style of play with better results -- aside from the ulti.

I knew they'd nerf bashcro without making any changes to the rest of the class to make it more useful / versatile outside of goliath form.

Insco851

What are these things hitting for on the meta bash builds now

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Insco851 wrote: »

What are these things hitting for on the meta bash builds now

Basically half whatever they were.

Darkestnght

In my opinion this was intentional and they new full well the damage it was capable of. Think about it. They put out a new chapter with a new class that can do this kind of damage. Now some players may see this and say hey I need to go buy Elsweyr so I can do this kind of damage as well, waht fun. Boom sales for Elsweyr go up and everyone on their end is happy. As someone who PvP's a lot this was very clear to me from the beginning.

Insco851

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

What are these things hitting for on the meta bash builds now

Basically half whatever they were.

So 3.5-5k per still possible?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Insco851 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

What are these things hitting for on the meta bash builds now

Basically half whatever they were.

So 3.5-5k per still possible?

If they were doing 7-10k bashes before, sure.

wheem_ESO

Darkestnght wrote: »

In my opinion this was intentional and they new full well the damage it was capable of. Think about it. They put out a new chapter with a new class that can do this kind of damage. Now some players may see this and say hey I need to go buy Elsweyr so I can do this kind of damage as well, waht fun. Boom sales for Elsweyr go up and everyone on their end is happy. As someone who PvP's a lot this was very clear to me from the beginning.

I think it's far more likely that they simply overlooked the kind of damage "specialized" Bash-builds could do with this ultimate. Unless of course they conspired to make this one ultimate overpowered only on Stamina builds, while simultaneously making Magicka Necromancer the worst class in the game by far, in order to somehow sell more copies of Elsweyr.

WeylandLabs

Ok now can we stop complaining in this community ? Smh Or did you want to make Necro completely useless for PvP ?

Xarc

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Ok now can we stop complaining in this community ?

no