MagNB - What is our advantage to leverage?

Bazeric

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Nothing, still *** class.

The class is levels better than it has been in 6 months.

And miles away from what it was.

thankyourat wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Nothing, still *** class.

The snare immunity and wings change alone made magblade quality of life much better. Just because the class isn’t OP like some other classes doesn’t mean it’s a bad class

Still too many mechanics that far apart with an ounce of lag. Really only shines as a shadowy zerg surfer, everything else just means twice the work for half the return.

Wish I hadn't main'd it for so many years, I feel compelled to make it work. I've skinned it every which way, and each flavor works for about half a day, then out of the blue just falls apart to a mediocre build that isn't a threat to any experienced players. Cloak and run is about the only thing players/forumer will *** about because every other flavor of mNB is only a pothole on the road to more AP.

Insco851

Bazeric wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Nothing, still *** class.

The class is levels better than it has been in 6 months.

And miles away from what it was.

thankyourat wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Nothing, still *** class.

The snare immunity and wings change alone made magblade quality of life much better. Just because the class isn’t OP like some other classes doesn’t mean it’s a bad class

Still too many mechanics that far apart with an ounce of lag. Really only shines as a shadowy zerg surfer, everything else just means twice the work for half the return.

Wish I hadn't main'd it for so many years, I feel compelled to make it work. I've skinned it every which way, and each flavor works for about half a day, then out of the blue just falls apart to a mediocre build that isn't a threat to any experienced players. Cloak and run is about the only thing players/forumer will *** about because every other flavor of mNB is only a pothole on the road to more AP.

I can’t get behind this sentiment much at all currently. Dark cloak/shade mnb is very strong rn. Hella tanky with good dmg still. Is it magsorc easy? No. But it’s still very fun.

Iskiab

I’ve dropped Shadowy Disguise for Dark Cloak. It helps a ton, I think Magblade’s okay but Shadowy Disguise is the meh part.

It’s great for noob farming but against more competent opponents I don’t think it works well.

I’d suggest a back to basics if you’re having issues; 1 sustain, 1 defense, 1 damage set and one weapon set. Be tanky enough to survive without shade, less abilities and make them stronger with inner light rather then cluttering your bars. That’s what I did and it works really well, simplify so you only have to focus on important things like light attack weaving and positional awareness.

thankyourat

Bazeric wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Nothing, still *** class.

The class is levels better than it has been in 6 months.

And miles away from what it was.

thankyourat wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Nothing, still *** class.

The snare immunity and wings change alone made magblade quality of life much better. Just because the class isn’t OP like some other classes doesn’t mean it’s a bad class

Still too many mechanics that far apart with an ounce of lag. Really only shines as a shadowy zerg surfer, everything else just means twice the work for half the return.

Wish I hadn't main'd it for so many years, I feel compelled to make it work. I've skinned it every which way, and each flavor works for about half a day, then out of the blue just falls apart to a mediocre build that isn't a threat to any experienced players. Cloak and run is about the only thing players/forumer will *** about because every other flavor of mNB is only a pothole on the road to more AP.

I agree the class falls apart in lag due to it having so many precise mechanics. The open world builds also can struggle hard vs meta builds. 1v1 though with dark cloak and a big damage shield magblade is a big threat to anyone. The class is far from unplayable open world though it’s right in the middle of the pack with some other classes.

Iskiab wrote: »

I’ve dropped Shadowy Disguise for Dark Cloak. It helps a ton, I think Magblade’s okay but Shadowy Disguise is the meh part.

It’s great for noob farming but against more competent opponents I don’t think it works well.

I’d suggest a back to basics if you’re having issues; 1 sustain, 1 defense, 1 damage set and one weapon set. Be tanky enough to survive without shade, less abilities and make them stronger with inner light rather then cluttering your bars. That’s what I did and it works really well, simplify so you only have to focus on important things like light attack weaving and positional awareness.

I disagree about the dark cloak part. I like dark cloak but I still use shadowy disguise on most my open world builds and I get minor protection from slotting undo. What I like about shadowy disguise is it saves me a bunch of Magicka. Often times without the invisibility morph of cloak I will have to constantly recast shields and sprint while I’m trying to kite or reposition when simply casting cloak once would allow me to get to the spot I want without wasting a ton of resources. I also like the control invisibility gives me over situations. If I planned on dueling or doing group content than no question I would run dark cloak. I don’t think one is better than the other I think they both are just situational

Iskiab

Yea, it depends who you’re fighting against.

I did a BG yesterday against a bunch of Stamblades, they started dropping from the BG like flies because I knew exactly how to counter them, and that’s without ice blockade and only 1 AoE. Most people don’t know how to counter disguise true, but I always plan on fighting the best as a philosophy so likely won’t switch back.

GhostofDatthaw

The thing about shadow cloak is the way you move. You can have very predictable movement, and it makes it very easy to reveal you. With snare removals and shade unless you are detect potted or marked you should be able to juke them. I think the other part people in this thread and in general tend to forget is shadowy is an attack morph. It leads to the big combos with a guaranteed crit.

kaithuzar

Even though my current build performs well, I’ve decided to mess around making a new one.

I’m using 5 light 2 heavy, rattle cage jewelry & weapons (all gold) with buffer of the swift, 1pirate, 1 chokethorn & it’s working decently.
1 infused recovery, 2 infused spell dmg glyphs. (I always run sharp weap w/lover mundus)

I’m a bit undecided on whether I prefer buffer of the swift or alessian, but having rattle cage on a 5 light build can not only free up a slot but also allow you to run different pots; is there a detect+immovable or detect+lingering health?

thankyourat

kaithuzar wrote: »

Even though my current build performs well, I’ve decided to mess around making a new one.

I’m using 5 light 2 heavy, rattle cage jewelry & weapons (all gold) with buffer of the swift, 1pirate, 1 chokethorn & it’s working decently.
1 infused recovery, 2 infused spell dmg glyphs. (I always run sharp weap w/lover mundus)

I’m a bit undecided on whether I prefer buffer of the swift or alessian, but having rattle cage on a 5 light build can not only free up a slot but also allow you to run different pots; is there a detect+immovable or detect+lingering health?

Detect/immovable/Magicka is a potion not sure about detect/lingering

Bazeric

Man what a trash spec.

Insco851

Bazeric wrote: »

Man what a trash spec.

Let’s keep this energy so we don’t get nerfed into oblivion again

GhostofDatthaw

Don't worry, shade will break again..... well...worse and then we wI'll be ducked


Spoken like a true optimist lol

kaithuzar

Bazeric wrote: »

Man what a trash spec.

Context?

GhostofDatthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Man what a trash spec.

Context?

No u

brandonv516

Get ready for yet another Healing Ward nerf! This was an advantage for MagNBs and we can't have such things.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

Get ready for yet another Healing Ward nerf! This was an advantage for MagNBs and we can't have such things.

I read the abbreviated changes and see some good and some bad. Rapid regen looks it will be the equivalent of vigor on magicka.

Biggest concern is bleed and 2h changes. I’m not sure but I think it’s a buff? I’m not sure how tanky to build and it’ll take a lot of trial and error to figure out. I can see needing to build really tanky in order to survive a burst combo with all the stam buffs.

I’m wearing pirate smelly, sanc and trans now and in theory they should be solid sets after the changes.

darkblue5

Already feeling pretty hyped for next patch. I probably am going to have to gold out my bombing set up.
The reduced mitigation for NBs is what I was betting all along (10-12% max). I remember when I was an outlier in thinking that it was good let alone amazing.

The nerfs to the CP tank meta are pretty substantial.That'll buff Shadowy Disguise NBs somewhat. Still will probably be worse than Dark Cloak NBs but not by as much. With the nerfs to petsorc maybe Dark Cloak magblade won't just be a hipster sorc for emos and edgelords. Dark Cloak stamblade will still be good.

Camouflaged Hunter changes are hype. At some point I figured out you did need to hit a Sword&Sword/Greatsword LA before the bomb or gank from actual factual stealth.... which sometimes worked. Now it works a lot more like you'd expect and will be much more useful for magblade gank builds.

Group play will still be rewarded but people might actually die due to failing at regular technical combat. You might have to make sure you remember how to light attack weave and block/dodge combos you know you'd use if you were your opponent. I'm still getting better at that and welcome the chance to die like a dog learn .


To be fair reactive defense is pretty bull hocky hard with the lag being the way it has been. I've died trying to dodge, or cloak, or holding block down for seconds while my char doesn't ever do anything. That's been fairly frequent. I do prefer building so that I have to use reactive defense instead of just lying back and thinking of the Aldmeri Dominion when I get hit with a burst combo. Yes, building like that is Wrong and Weak this patch but maybe I won't have to drastically change my gear for next patch.

Haha what am I kidding the tank meta isn't so easily slain. It will just be weakened slightly, bidding its time, etc etc more cliches.

kaithuzar

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Man what a trash spec.

Context?

No u

Click “show previous quotes” before you reply, I wasn’t talking to you....

GhostofDatthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Man what a trash spec.

Context?

No u

Click “show previous quotes” before you reply, I wasn’t talking to you....

No u?

kaithuzar

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Man what a trash spec.

Context?

No u

Click “show previous quotes” before you reply, I wasn’t talking to you....

No u?

Did you get your account hacked, change your meds, or what? I’ve never seen you be this belligerent.

ScruffyWhiskers

Anybody else worried about the soul harvest 400 ms animation sync?

Iskiab

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Anybody else worried about the soul harvest 400 ms animation sync?

I’m not sure what it means really.

ScruffyWhiskers

I'm pretty sure it means you will be watching your character spin in the air a lot and you can't animation cancel it. You can cancel it with say a weapon swap and it won't go off and you will get the ultimate back. It's going to make your typical burst from stealth more awkward and give your target more time to respond.

If anybody plans on going on the PTS tomorrow and try it out please report back. I think this might end up being a real PITA.

GhostofDatthaw

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it means you will be watching your character spin in the air a lot and you can't animation cancel it. You can cancel it with say a weapon swap and it won't go off and you will get the ultimate back. It's going to make your typical burst from stealth more awkward and give your target more time to respond.

If anybody plans on going on the PTS tomorrow and try it out please report back. I think this might end up being a real PITA.

Lol gonna make you come out of the shadows my kitty.

But yeah it seems strange, Def a nerf to all the calu and cloak players. That combo it already hard to land, pretty much have to catch people no shield no buff.

Iskiab

I’ve been mulling over a lot of the changes. It’s crazy hard to figure out how things will shake out but... I’m thinking ranged magblade will be in a better spot.

There’s nothing good about the changes for magblade in the class changes, it’s all nerfs. Even the extra healing on refreshing is meh when you compare it to similar healing abilities for other classes being buffed a lot more.

The only good things are all the guild/weapon/alliance war changes. Some abilities got buffed a lot, but I’ll have to go on PTS to see values for what’s worth slotting.

I’m thinking a resto back bar will be a MUST and a ranged build using high speed and kiting will work well, with only magblade core abilities with the rest weapon or guild abilities.

I don’t know if this is an overreaction, but melee magblade looks dead to me. With 2h buffs magblade will be uncompetitive, but it’s possible a 2h melee magblade build could work well, I’m not sure.

GhostofDatthaw

I'm just scared for shade. That cost increase is a lot, and they break shade when they don't even "tweak" it. Shade goes magnb in a rough spot again.

ScruffyWhiskers

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Lol gonna make you come out of the shadows my kitty.

The sun. It burns.

Iskiab

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I'm just scared for shade. That cost increase is a lot, and they break shade when they don't even "tweak" it. Shade goes magnb in a rough spot again.

Rough is an understatement.

If something like stampede breaks cloak I’d say unplayable.

thankyourat

Iskiab wrote: »

I’ve been mulling over a lot of the changes. It’s crazy hard to figure out how things will shake out but... I’m thinking ranged magblade will be in a better spot.

There’s nothing good about the changes for magblade in the class changes, it’s all nerfs. Even the extra healing on refreshing is meh when you compare it to similar healing abilities for other classes being buffed a lot more.

The only good things are all the guild/weapon/alliance war changes. Some abilities got buffed a lot, but I’ll have to go on PTS to see values for what’s worth slotting.

I’m thinking a resto back bar will be a MUST and a ranged build using high speed, only magblade core abilities with the rest weapon or guild abilities will be pretty good. I don’t know if this is an overreaction, but melee magblade looks dead to me.

You are missing a big buff to melee magblade and that’s heavy armor stam being nerfed and the buff to rapid regen. It might actually be decent open world during the next update. Players are going to be a lot more burstable next patch if everyone is in light or medium. This will give melee magblade a chance to shine. Overall I think the resto staff changes positively impact all versions of magblade more than other classes because other classes have viable heals built into their class kit where magblades didn’t.

Tether bombers might make a return as well since group healing took a hit and proxy det was buffed. Heavy armor magblade maybe good again too since they nerfed harness sustain finally. It’s early but this is looking like a positive patch for magblade and there are going to be overall more build diversity available

darkblue5

Iskiab wrote: »

I’ve been mulling over a lot of the changes. It’s crazy hard to figure out how things will shake out but... I’m thinking ranged magblade will be in a better spot.

There’s nothing good about the changes for magblade in the class changes, it’s all nerfs. Even the extra healing on refreshing is meh when you compare it to similar healing abilities for other classes being buffed a lot more.

The only good things are all the guild/weapon/alliance war changes. Some abilities got buffed a lot, but I’ll have to go on PTS to see values for what’s worth slotting.

I’m thinking a resto back bar will be a MUST and a ranged build using high speed and kiting will work well, with only magblade core abilities with the rest weapon or guild abilities.

I don’t know if this is an overreaction, but melee magblade looks dead to me. With 2h buffs magblade will be uncompetitive, but it’s possible a 2h melee magblade build could work well, I’m not sure.

Onslaught (morph): This morph no longer refunds Ultimate cost if you gain a killing blow with it. Instead, it converts the Physical and Spell Resistance into Physical and Spell Penetration, and increases the duration from 8 seconds to a maximum of 16 seconds. It also no longer ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.

Seems pretty dang good for a melee 2 hander magblade build. Sure it won't follow your spell critical or CP buffing spell crit damage but it seems like a very nice morph even for magicka characters.

Might be a bit strong to make live tbh.
(Rip Onslaught ganks you won't be missed)

Iskiab

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I’ve been mulling over a lot of the changes. It’s crazy hard to figure out how things will shake out but... I’m thinking ranged magblade will be in a better spot.

There’s nothing good about the changes for magblade in the class changes, it’s all nerfs. Even the extra healing on refreshing is meh when you compare it to similar healing abilities for other classes being buffed a lot more.

The only good things are all the guild/weapon/alliance war changes. Some abilities got buffed a lot, but I’ll have to go on PTS to see values for what’s worth slotting.

I’m thinking a resto back bar will be a MUST and a ranged build using high speed, only magblade core abilities with the rest weapon or guild abilities will be pretty good. I don’t know if this is an overreaction, but melee magblade looks dead to me.

You are missing a big buff to melee magblade and that’s heavy armor stam being nerfed and the buff to rapid regen. It might actually be decent open world during the next update. Players are going to be a lot more burstable next patch if everyone is in light or medium. This will give melee magblade a chance to shine. Overall I think the resto staff changes positively impact all versions of magblade more than other classes because other classes have viable heals built into their class kit where magblades didn’t.

Tether bombers might make a return as well since group healing took a hit and proxy det was buffed. Heavy armor magblade maybe good again too since they nerfed harness sustain finally. It’s early but this is looking like a positive patch for magblade and there are going to be overall more build diversity available

I don’t think heavy armour magblade will work well. It’ll still suffer from lack of pen and crit, plus it won’t be as good for defensive passives and lacks good magicka sets.

I was also looking at sword and board and it looks to me like it was nerfed and buffed so to speak. Passive reasons for a S&B back bar took a hit, but for players who actually build to be tanky it’s been buffed a lot when combined with heavy armour. A stam who combines unstoppable and sword and board will be crazy tanky, but that option won’t be good for magicka.

You’re right that resto will help magblade more but melee will suffer from being dizzy swinged all the time, so if damage is up there’s a good chance of being bursted especially combined with onslaught. Plus shuffle has been buffed a ton making it the best option for stam so they’ll be faster and burstier.

Since it looks like damage and self healing are both up combat might be really fast. Lack of cc tools and faster stam I think will give them an advantage over any melee magblade builds (except gankers).

These are the kind of changes that will take a while to figure out, but I’d be more leery about melee rather then less looking at the changes.