The state of Cyrodiil, 10 days in to Faction Lock

bulbousb16_ESO

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

All you care about is you, you, you. You don't give a damn if anyone else in this game has fun.

My motivation is for the integrity of the game. I can appreciate that some people have fun logging in with a faction in order to mess with it. I bet they laugh themselves silly while they do it. But it is not a playstyle that is good for the game, and it needed to be shut down.

Siohwenoeht

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

All you care about is you, you, you. You don't give a damn if anyone else in this game has fun.

My motivation is for the integrity of the game. I can appreciate that some people have fun logging in with a faction in order to mess with it. I bet they laugh themselves silly while they do it. But it is not a playstyle that is good for the game, and it needed to be shut down.

I'm afraid the only way you'd find what you are looking for is to go backwards to pre 1t. And you'd be the only one playing that version of ESO.

I'm reluctantly for faction locks as long as there are equal alternatives, which there are not currently. Options are good, that's what the devs realised when they implemented 1t. We shouldn't advocate for the game devolving.

bulbousb16_ESO

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I'm afraid the only way you'd find what you are looking for is to go backwards to pre 1t. And you'd be the only one playing that version of ESO....Options are good, that's what the devs realised when they implemented 1t. We shouldn't advocate for the game devolving.

Interstingly enough, there is a thread advocating an "ESO Classic", so there would be others interested in this. I'm not saying I am, however. The game has evolved a lot since then, and not all of it was good, especially One Tamriel. For all of the things it fixed, there remains some heavily borked things that have remained in disrepair to this day. The presentation of the main storyline is one such issue.

Siohwenoeht

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I'm afraid the only way you'd find what you are looking for is to go backwards to pre 1t. And you'd be the only one playing that version of ESO....Options are good, that's what the devs realised when they implemented 1t. We shouldn't advocate for the game devolving.

Interstingly enough, there is a thread advocating an "ESO Classic", so there would be others interested in this. I'm not saying I am, however. The game has evolved a lot since then, and not all of it was good, especially One Tamriel. For all of the things it fixed, there remains some heavily borked things that have remained in disrepair to this day. The presentation of the main storyline is one such issue.

So you'd want faction locked pve zones as well? The reason why so many fall back on "now I can't play with my friends" (on an equal campaign) is because that's exactly how 1t was billed, "now you can go anywhere and do anything and truly play how you want!" Well now we can play on our faction locked server, but there are others who cannot play as they want. Equal footing is the healthiest place for any game.

Beardimus

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of predictions have been made about what will happen to Cyrodiil after the implementation of Faction Lock. Opinions have ranged from Utopia to Ragnarok. Also, a lot of observations have been made about the current state of the map(s), and the population levels. For reference purposes, here is a snapshot of Cyrodiil, 10 days after Faction Locks.

Taken on 5/30/2019 at 10 PM EDT on PC NA:

Kalgrontiid:

Population Levels: all factions locked
Map holdings: EP 30% AD 50% DC 20%
Score (k): EP 35 AD 30 DC 28

Bahlokdaan:

Population Levels (bars): EP 2, AD 2, DC 3
Map holdings: EP 20% AD 40% DC 40%
Score (k): EP 35 AD 29 DC 27

Yolnahkriin:

Population (bars): all factions 1 bar
Map control: EP 40 AD 40 DC 20
Score (k): EP 10 AD 10 DC 6

At the time of the survey, we can make some observations:

1. EP is winning all campaigns by score
2. EP does not have majority population in any campaign
3. EP does not control the majority of the map in any campaign
4. 30 Day CP campaign has a high population, 30 Day No-CP has a medium population and 7 Day (no faction-locks) has a low population

Personally, my three takeaways are:

A ) Faction locked campaigns are popular while the Faction unlocked campaign is not.
B ) The situation on the map is competitive. No one is getting "gated".
C ) EP is dominating score-wise, but not on the ground during prime time. They also do not have the most combined boots on the ground.

All in all, things are looking pretty good in Cyrodiil.

Nice work, so the sky has not fallen, and the flippers ability to boost themselves is gone. Nice job zos

dtsharples

Would be interesting to see more map / score screen-shots throughout the day from other people.

Personally I think the lock has been great, the scoring is pretty even if you remove the night-cap score, and both 30 day campaigns are full for prime-time. (can only speak for EU PC)

It hasn't solved the night-capping nonsense of course, but it was never intended to in the 1st place.
That's its own issue which could have been solved by the player community themselves long, long ago - if only they really wanted to.

The only thing we do seem to miss is an unlocked 7 Day No-CP campaign - that I can agree with entirely.
Maybe that way we can hopefully alleviate some of the lag we have throughout prime-time elsewhere.

The unlocked camp doesn't seem to be getting much attention though, which is very odd considering how many people are advocating for it. This could be a great opportunity for those who do want to flip-flop to fill up a new campaign with like-minded people...but only if they make it work and give it a chance.

Dutchessx

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of predictions have been made about what will happen to Cyrodiil after the implementation of Faction Lock. Opinions have ranged from Utopia to Ragnarok. Also, a lot of observations have been made about the current state of the map(s), and the population levels. For reference purposes, here is a snapshot of Cyrodiil, 10 days after Faction Locks.

Taken on 5/30/2019 at 10 PM EDT on PC NA:

Kalgrontiid:

Population Levels: all factions locked
Map holdings: EP 30% AD 50% DC 20%
Score (k): EP 35 AD 30 DC 28

Bahlokdaan:

Population Levels (bars): EP 2, AD 2, DC 3
Map holdings: EP 20% AD 40% DC 40%
Score (k): EP 35 AD 29 DC 27

Yolnahkriin:

Population (bars): all factions 1 bar
Map control: EP 40 AD 40 DC 20
Score (k): EP 10 AD 10 DC 6

At the time of the survey, we can make some observations:

1. EP is winning all campaigns by score
2. EP does not have majority population in any campaign
3. EP does not control the majority of the map in any campaign
4. 30 Day CP campaign has a high population, 30 Day No-CP has a medium population and 7 Day (no faction-locks) has a low population

Personally, my three takeaways are:

A ) Faction locked campaigns are popular while the Faction unlocked campaign is not.
B ) The situation on the map is competitive. No one is getting "gated".
C ) EP is dominating score-wise, but not on the ground during prime time. They also do not have the most combined boots on the ground.

All in all, things are looking pretty good in Cyrodiil.

In my opinion you are making a lot of generalizations with this, my reasoning:

1). 30 day campaigns cp and no cp have always been more popular. In my opinion to say it is due to faction locks is a generalization due to the fact that is where most of the guilds are & people will tend to stick with a guild of people they enjoy or where the populations are whether or not they personally like faction locks or not.

2). You state the situation is more competitive. Here in my opinion you are incorrect at least for no cp. In no cp people (not all but some) would fight for their faction and see another getting gated by the faction with the higher population and switch to an alt to help out, thus providing better fights and more competition, this is no longer the situation. In no cp there has developed a time variance. The weaker faction when main groups leaves gets gated. Now.... since faction locks exists people can’t swap to the weaker faction to help out. Let’s see you say this is more competitive??? How???


#FreeNoCP

Hollerboller

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

The presentation of the main storyline is one such issue.

lol do you hate the main storyline because the whole premise is faction swapping?

Unfortunately he's hell-bent on taking us backwards instead of forwards. Faction lock is only good if there are equal campaigns for those who don't want it either. No-cp players are definitely hurting.

The argument has been made that there isn't enough pvp population to support 2 locked and 2 unlocked campaigns but having that many at least for a month or two would be the only legitimate way to determine which is more popular. I've a sneaking suspicion that some of these posters that border on zealotry are deeply afraid they may be the minority.

I say this as one who supports faction locks, but not as they are currently, and would much prefer incentives for faction loyalty instead.

If there are so many anti faction lock people, why do they not play on the unlocked campaign? Is it because it is not a 30 day campaign? Is it because it is empty? Maybe the overwhelming masses of anti faction lock people should use the option they have. All i hear from them are excuses. Someone in this thread calls faction lock supporters crybabies, in reality anti faction lock supporters are the only crybabies i see in every thread involving faction lock. Again they have the option to play an unlocked campaign.

vamp_emily

Has anyone else noticed the improvement of DC ( PC/NA )?

Before faction lock, It was common for me to log into Vivec around 6 p.m. est time and have Warden controlled by EP. AD had Ash so much that it was like their home keep. I never traveled to KC and very seldom ever went to Arrius or BRK.

Since Faction lock ( in Kaal), I log in around 6 p.m. est and it is common for DC to control Bleakers/Nik and it is more than like we have Chal or Roe, or Both. I'm also frequently visiting KC, Arrius, and BRK. Moreover, DC has been at 3 bars ( not poplocked ) most the time and still holding strong.

Overall, I think this faction lock was a good thing. I'm interested to see what the next campaign score will be like.

Hashtag_

vamp_emily wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed the improvement of DC ( PC/NA )?

Before faction lock, It was common for me to log into Vivec around 6 p.m. est time and have Warden controlled by EP. AD had Ash so much that it was like their home keep. I never traveled to KC and very seldom ever went to Arrius or BRK.

Since Faction lock ( in Kaal), I log in around 6 p.m. est and it is common for DC to control Bleakers/Nik and it is more than like we have Chal or Roe, or Both. I'm also frequently visiting KC, Arrius, and BRK. Moreover, DC has been at 3 bars ( not poplocked ) most the time and still holding strong.

Overall, I think this faction lock was a good thing. I'm interested to see what the next campaign score will be like.

Dc is only relevant during primetime. Most other times they’re 1 or 2 bar while Ep/AD is 3 or pop locked

Alienoutlaw

from what i see Faction lock has done its job, personally very happy

InvictusApollo

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of predictions have been made about what will happen to Cyrodiil after the implementation of Faction Lock. Opinions have ranged from Utopia to Ragnarok. Also, a lot of observations have been made about the current state of the map(s), and the population levels. For reference purposes, here is a snapshot of Cyrodiil, 10 days after Faction Locks.

Taken on 5/30/2019 at 10 PM EDT on PC NA:

Kalgrontiid:

Population Levels: all factions locked
Map holdings: EP 30% AD 50% DC 20%
Score (k): EP 35 AD 30 DC 28

Bahlokdaan:

Population Levels (bars): EP 2, AD 2, DC 3
Map holdings: EP 20% AD 40% DC 40%
Score (k): EP 35 AD 29 DC 27

Yolnahkriin:

Population (bars): all factions 1 bar
Map control: EP 40 AD 40 DC 20
Score (k): EP 10 AD 10 DC 6

At the time of the survey, we can make some observations:

1. EP is winning all campaigns by score
2. EP does not have majority population in any campaign
3. EP does not control the majority of the map in any campaign
4. 30 Day CP campaign has a high population, 30 Day No-CP has a medium population and 7 Day (no faction-locks) has a low population

Personally, my three takeaways are:

A ) Faction locked campaigns are popular while the Faction unlocked campaign is not.
B ) The situation on the map is competitive. No one is getting "gated".
C ) EP is dominating score-wise, but not on the ground during prime time. They also do not have the most combined boots on the ground.

All in all, things are looking pretty good in Cyrodiil.

Hollerboller wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

The presentation of the main storyline is one such issue.

lol do you hate the main storyline because the whole premise is faction swapping?

Unfortunately he's hell-bent on taking us backwards instead of forwards. Faction lock is only good if there are equal campaigns for those who don't want it either. No-cp players are definitely hurting.

The argument has been made that there isn't enough pvp population to support 2 locked and 2 unlocked campaigns but having that many at least for a month or two would be the only legitimate way to determine which is more popular. I've a sneaking suspicion that some of these posters that border on zealotry are deeply afraid they may be the minority.

I say this as one who supports faction locks, but not as they are currently, and would much prefer incentives for faction loyalty instead.

If there are so many anti faction lock people, why do they not play on the unlocked campaign? Is it because it is not a 30 day campaign? Is it because it is empty? Maybe the overwhelming masses of anti faction lock people should use the option they have. All i hear from them are excuses. Someone in this thread calls faction lock supporters crybabies, in reality anti faction lock supporters are the only crybabies i see in every thread involving faction lock. Again they have the option to play an unlocked campaign.

There is a full thread meant to analyse and poll why people prefer 30 day campaigns that happen to be now faction locked.
As for me I don't go to unlocked 7 day campaign because every time I look at it, it is empty. I can only presume that others also see that when they are about to choose a campaign and it ends with everyone avoiding that campaign.

Crispen_Longbow

vamp_emily wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed the improvement of DC ( PC/NA )?

Before faction lock, It was common for me to log into Vivec around 6 p.m. est time and have Warden controlled by EP. AD had Ash so much that it was like their home keep. I never traveled to KC and very seldom ever went to Arrius or BRK.

Since Faction lock ( in Kaal), I log in around 6 p.m. est and it is common for DC to control Bleakers/Nik and it is more than like we have Chal or Roe, or Both. I'm also frequently visiting KC, Arrius, and BRK. Moreover, DC has been at 3 bars ( not poplocked ) most the time and still holding strong.

Overall, I think this faction lock was a good thing. I'm interested to see what the next campaign score will be like.

DC has a pop advantage between 4:00 PM Est to 6:00 PM Est. Where they are 3 bars to AD and EP 2 bar. This is after the EP day crew has logged off. The EP day crew has a pop advantage for about 7 hours during the day, where it's EP 3 bar to DC/AD 2 bar.

The AD & DC day crew mostly just fight each other after EP has taken all the scrolls and pushes one side or the other.

What the day map looked like on Tuesday.



So when you login, DC has had 2 hours to get their keeps back with a pop advantage. Unfortunately DC stays at 3 bars for the rest of primetime when AD and EP will jump up to poplocked. It seems DC has moved away from primetime hours where they have more playing before it begins or after it ends.

During primetime, DC is basically ignored as their guilds have really struggled the last few months. They don't have the ability to fight back. So it mainly turns into a DC faction stack or pvdooring back keeps. I believe the 2-3 stacked raids of AP + the other EP guilds surfing them demoralized the primetime DC. DC doesn't have any guilds that can fight that mess, were as AD does have guilds that can.

On any given night EP will typically have 3-5 guilds running. The regular's you will see are...

2 Raids of AP
1 Raid of Vae Victus
1 Raid of Tyr
1 Raid of Drac

On any giving night AD will have 2 guilds running. So most of the fights will be against EP.

IronWooshu

I've noticed less drama in the main chat, no more individuals coming over flexing epeen, all hate is direct to private tells and doesnt effect the faction as a whole..

this is GREAT.

Ghostbane

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IA/Chapter House must not run on Tuesdays, KC was red all day.

vamp_emily

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

During primetime, DC is basically ignored as their guilds have really struggled the last few months. They don't have the ability to fight back. So it mainly turns into a DC faction stack or pvdooring back keeps. I believe the 2-3 stacked raids of AP + the other EP guilds surfing them demoralized the primetime DC. DC doesn't have any guilds that can fight that mess, were as AD does have guilds that can.

Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Previously (vivec) we struggled to keep our tri keeps but now things are much better. I diagree with you on DC is basically ignored just a few minutes ago half the ep alliance was at ash and we took them down. right now 8:50 pm and the map is like this.



just a few days ago i was shocked and took this pic.



When i play it is really hard to believe EP is ignoring DC for whatever reason because I always see 40+ EP zerging to bleakers. If we weren't a threat then why send 40?

I don't play in the morning except weekends but I can tell you from my point of view this faction lock has been nothing but good for DC. Less drama in chat, less people hiding just for AP gains from capturing keeps and more players showing up to defend. Like I said previously, faction locks created a new DC and I see them winning in the near future.

As far and DC doesn't have the ability to fight back, that is funny because we just wiped Drac at ash. It took us a bit but we "pugs" did it.

Crispen_Longbow

vamp_emily wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

During primetime, DC is basically ignored as their guilds have really struggled the last few months. They don't have the ability to fight back. So it mainly turns into a DC faction stack or pvdooring back keeps. I believe the 2-3 stacked raids of AP + the other EP guilds surfing them demoralized the primetime DC. DC doesn't have any guilds that can fight that mess, were as AD does have guilds that can.

Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Previously (vivec) we struggled to keep our tri keeps but now things are much better. I diagree with you on DC is basically ignored just a few minutes ago half the ep alliance was at ash and we took them down. right now 8:50 pm and the map is like this.



just a few days ago i was shocked and took this pic.

We pretty much ignore DC whenever we are on. 90% of our time we focus EP, 10% DC, as EP has the guilds to fight against.

This is what happened to the map 1 hour after your post in the middle of primetime. We went up and farmed glade for a half an hour which then pulled all the EP to glade. In the end DC lost everything, scrolls, keeps and dropped down to 3 bars for being demoralized. This is what would happen every night we play, IF, we focused DC.

vamp_emily wrote: »

When i play it is really hard to believe EP is ignoring DC for whatever reason because I always see 40+ EP zerging to bleakers. If we weren't a threat then why send 40?

That is just AP doing what they can. They are all new / casual players just trying to survive.

vamp_emily wrote: »

Like I said previously, faction locks created a new DC and I see them winning in the near future.

LOL, It's simple to win a campaign. Have the highest, "off hour", presence that pushes the map. Been like that for years, which is why campaign wins are a joke.

vamp_emily wrote: »

As far and DC doesn't have the ability to fight back, that is funny because we just wiped Drac at ash. It took us a bit but we "pugs" did it.

Yes, eventually the faction stack will win against 1 raid. More than likely Drac saw us farming Glade and left ash to come up to us. Omni and Drac were battling each other inside glade and all of DC were just an annoyance to both groups.

DC guilds need help in primetime they don't have a top tier guild and most of the faction swappers were going to DC to help them in the off hours.

Agrippa_Invisus

vamp_emily wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

During primetime, DC is basically ignored as their guilds have really struggled the last few months. They don't have the ability to fight back. So it mainly turns into a DC faction stack or pvdooring back keeps. I believe the 2-3 stacked raids of AP + the other EP guilds surfing them demoralized the primetime DC. DC doesn't have any guilds that can fight that mess, were as AD does have guilds that can.

Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Previously (vivec) we struggled to keep our tri keeps but now things are much better. I diagree with you on DC is basically ignored just a few minutes ago half the ep alliance was at ash and we took them down. right now 8:50 pm and the map is like this.



just a few days ago i was shocked and took this pic.



When i play it is really hard to believe EP is ignoring DC for whatever reason because I always see 40+ EP zerging to bleakers. If we weren't a threat then why send 40?

I don't play in the morning except weekends but I can tell you from my point of view this faction lock has been nothing but good for DC. Less drama in chat, less people hiding just for AP gains from capturing keeps and more players showing up to defend. Like I said previously, faction locks created a new DC and I see them winning in the near future.

As far and DC doesn't have the ability to fight back, that is funny because we just wiped Drac at ash. It took us a bit but we "pugs" did it.

So, when EP has an AD scroll in Arrius and both factions are going at each other without any attention paid to DC, they can push and gain some ground? I'm shocked, utterly shocked, by this notion. You mean to say that when Chalman and Roe are virtually empty you are able to take them?

But, more seriously and less facetiously, the only things faction locks is preventing is people helping DC in off hours like used to happen in the past. Since the Xpack launched, this primary campaign has been more one sided than is typical.

What incentive does the average player have to help out a floundering faction like DC? I have 7 different EP toons on my account. Why would I roll a DC and then lock my other 7 toons out from playing on the main campaign? Why would any typical player? Altruism only goes so far, and will not be in significant enough numbers to matter when players have to actively work against their own best interests in favor of a faction that doesn't like them (dirty faction hoppers!), appreciate them (we did it all on our own thanks to faction locks!), or care that they exist in the rare cases they do.

Let me be perfectly blunt and frank -- I am a faction loyalist and always have been. On top of that, I'm an EP player, and always have been (even when they were TUHRRIBLE back in the days of early Thornblade and on the pure DC buff server of Bloodthorn). Every toon, even my mule toons, are EP and I have no plans on changing that. Faction locks HELP ME. They make my faction stronger and weaken the others. They are helping insure the most lop sided win I've seen in a long time for my faction on the main campaign.

I am the target audience for this change.

That said...

REVERT FACTION LOCKS.

They are awful for the overall community. They remove options from players and take choices away that directly counteract the spirit of the One Tamriel initiative. At the very least there should be two equal length campaigns that have the option to either have locks or have no locks for both CP and NoCP (four 30 day campaigns total). But there's not, because ZOS knows there's not enough overall PVPers to warrant that, and instead have shackled everyone with this failure of a policy.

I can see the consternation and frustration these locks are causing to the veteran players who hate how out of whack this campaign has become, and how unfun of an environment this is, all while those who commonly 'faction hopped' over to the losing side to help out and then they are being told they are the problem.

Yes, there were will always be some bad actors out there in the community. Welcome to the human race. The proper response and reaction to this is for ZOS to enforce its own TOS that was already in place and action their accounts when they act like twerps, not to enforce collective punishment against the entire pvp community.

vamp_emily

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I'm shocked, utterly shocked, by this notion. You mean to say that when Chalman and Roe are virtually empty you are able to take them?

Why would you assume the keeps were empty? Almost every fight I am in EP/AD is defending their keeps. That was a very closed minded assumption you made.

This was my first post. ".

Has anyone else noticed the improvement of DC ( PC/NA )?

Before faction lock, It was common for me to log into Vivec around 6 p.m. est time and have Warden controlled by EP. AD had Ash so much that it was like their home keep. I never traveled to KC and very seldom ever went to Arrius or BRK.

I didn't say DC was the best, I just noticed DC improving.

They are helping insure the most lop sided win I've seen in a long time for my faction on the main campaign.

Lol really? The first week the expansion dropped ( during prime time ) EP was poplocked while other factions had 2 bars. i'm guessing some players were enjoying the new expansion and not playing PvP.

Time will tell.

Ranger209

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

But, more seriously and less facetiously, the only things faction locks is preventing is people helping DC in off hours like used to happen in the past. Since the Xpack launched, this primary campaign has been more one sided than is typical.

The only time on Vivec PCNA that this was true was when an entire guild playing off hours would switch to DC for the entire duration of the campaign. This would happen about once every 6 months and DC would win that campaign. Anyone who was micro managing faction balance by switching back and forth to an underpopulated faction had relatively no impact on the actual campaign. This has been true for the last year plus that I have been paying attention to it and is still true today with locks. It is still also true that if those off hours guilds want to join DC for the campaign they still can and will most likely have the very same impact that they have for the last year plus.

Faction locking/faction swapping does nothing to change this in any meaningful way to the campaign in either case. What faction locking does do is legitimize AvAvA as the pvp mode that Cyrodiil was designed to be. It is a first step at creating a meaningful AvAvA experience. There are plenty of other issues that need to be addressed to incentivize faction balance, population balance, and scoring balance through both the AP system, the scoring system, and the rewards offered.

Agrippa_Invisus

Ranger209 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

But, more seriously and less facetiously, the only things faction locks is preventing is people helping DC in off hours like used to happen in the past. Since the Xpack launched, this primary campaign has been more one sided than is typical.

What faction locking does do is legitimize AvAvA as the pvp mode that Cyrodiil was designed to be. It is a first step at creating a meaningful AvAvA experience.

What does that even mean? It sounds like something that should be on a pamphlet, not here in the forum of a video game.

This isn't an esport, and therefore doesn't require the fidelity of one. This is more like a big paintball arena where you can come and go as you please.

A good, enjoyable experience in Cyrodiil is far more rooted in server performance, enjoyable mechanics, good class balance, and the ability to work with groups of fellow players. That latter has taken a hit due the locks, as people find themselves unable to associate at will or play with particular characters they may have grown attached to.

There is no tribal loyalty that the factions are owed, as in reality they are arbitrary color designations for different teams in a game (ala Red vs Blue). I don't need my pick of "Red" as a color legitimized, nor defended. If someone decides to swap to Blue or Yellow it doesn't mortally offend me.

Ranger209

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

But, more seriously and less facetiously, the only things faction locks is preventing is people helping DC in off hours like used to happen in the past. Since the Xpack launched, this primary campaign has been more one sided than is typical.

What faction locking does do is legitimize AvAvA as the pvp mode that Cyrodiil was designed to be. It is a first step at creating a meaningful AvAvA experience.

What does that even mean? It sounds like something that should be on a pamphlet, not here in the forum of a video game.

What is it that you do not understand, the concept of Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance? That Cyrodiil was designed to be a large scale AvAvA game mode with objective based siege warfare? That faction hopping totally bastardizes the AvAvA aspect of Cyrodiil rendering that aspect meaningless? That faction locks set the team dynamics for AvAvA legitimizing it as such?

This isn't an esport, and therefore doesn't require the fidelity of one. This is more like a big paintball arena where you can come and go as you please.

It is an MMORPG that has various PvP aspects, dueling, small scale/battlegrounds, not sure how to categorize IC, and large scale/Cyrodiil. You seem to want to have small scale warfare in a large scale area with no loyalty to anyone but your clique. Nothing wrong with that per se, but that is not what Cyrodiil was designed to be. It allows that play style, but it is not made for that play style and should not cater to it. At least not if the intent is to be a legitimate AvAvA large scale PvP area.

A good, enjoyable experience in Cyrodiil is far more rooted in server performance, enjoyable mechanics, good class balance, and the ability to work with groups of fellow players. That latter has taken a hit due the locks, as people find themselves unable to associate at will or play with particular characters they may have grown attached to.

For faction hoppers in Cyrodiil, yes. If you have too many friends to get them all in the same faction, yes. In battlegrounds, no. In any PvE area, no. In IC, no. You can do any of these things at will with any character you want. In the one place where alliance is still supposed to mean something, yes.

There is no tribal loyalty that the factions are owed, as in reality they are arbitrary color designations for different teams in a game (ala Red vs Blue). I don't need my pick of "Red" as a color legitimized, nor defended. If someone decides to swap to Blue or Yellow it doesn't mortally offend me.

In AvAvA the factions are the teams, not your group of friends and someone else's group of friends. It is bigger than that, it is grander than that. It is a cohesive binding agent that brings people together across all time zones to fight for a common purpose. Some of these people you will rarely or never meet and yet you are bound to them and they to you for the campaign. I understand you do not want something so grandiose as all of that, but that is what AvAvA is supposed to be. You seem to want something more personal than that, more intimate than that, more close knit than that. Battlegrounds and IC deliver that type of content. There is a place for that, and now there is a place for AvAvA large scale warfare that has taken its first steps towards legitimacy.

IronWooshu

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

During primetime, DC is basically ignored as their guilds have really struggled the last few months. They don't have the ability to fight back. So it mainly turns into a DC faction stack or pvdooring back keeps. I believe the 2-3 stacked raids of AP + the other EP guilds surfing them demoralized the primetime DC. DC doesn't have any guilds that can fight that mess, were as AD does have guilds that can.

Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Previously (vivec) we struggled to keep our tri keeps but now things are much better. I diagree with you on DC is basically ignored just a few minutes ago half the ep alliance was at ash and we took them down. right now 8:50 pm and the map is like this.



just a few days ago i was shocked and took this pic.



When i play it is really hard to believe EP is ignoring DC for whatever reason because I always see 40+ EP zerging to bleakers. If we weren't a threat then why send 40?

I don't play in the morning except weekends but I can tell you from my point of view this faction lock has been nothing but good for DC. Less drama in chat, less people hiding just for AP gains from capturing keeps and more players showing up to defend. Like I said previously, faction locks created a new DC and I see them winning in the near future.

As far and DC doesn't have the ability to fight back, that is funny because we just wiped Drac at ash. It took us a bit but we "pugs" did it.

So, when EP has an AD scroll in Arrius and both factions are going at each other without any attention paid to DC, they can push and gain some ground? I'm shocked, utterly shocked, by this notion. You mean to say that when Chalman and Roe are virtually empty you are able to take them?

But, more seriously and less facetiously, the only things faction locks is preventing is people helping DC in off hours like used to happen in the past. Since the Xpack launched, this primary campaign has been more one sided than is typical.

What incentive does the average player have to help out a floundering faction like DC? I have 7 different EP toons on my account. Why would I roll a DC and then lock my other 7 toons out from playing on the main campaign? Why would any typical player? Altruism only goes so far, and will not be in significant enough numbers to matter when players have to actively work against their own best interests in favor of a faction that doesn't like them (dirty faction hoppers!), appreciate them (we did it all on our own thanks to faction locks!), or care that they exist in the rare cases they do.

Let me be perfectly blunt and frank -- I am a faction loyalist and always have been. On top of that, I'm an EP player, and always have been (even when they were TUHRRIBLE back in the days of early Thornblade and on the pure DC buff server of Bloodthorn). Every toon, even my mule toons, are EP and I have no plans on changing that. Faction locks HELP ME. They make my faction stronger and weaken the others. They are helping insure the most lop sided win I've seen in a long time for my faction on the main campaign.

I am the target audience for this change.

That said...

REVERT FACTION LOCKS.

They are awful for the overall community. They remove options from players and take choices away that directly counteract the spirit of the One Tamriel initiative. At the very least there should be two equal length campaigns that have the option to either have locks or have no locks for both CP and NoCP (four 30 day campaigns total). But there's not, because ZOS knows there's not enough overall PVPers to warrant that, and instead have shackled everyone with this failure of a policy.

I can see the consternation and frustration these locks are causing to the veteran players who hate how out of whack this campaign has become, and how unfun of an environment this is, all while those who commonly 'faction hopped' over to the losing side to help out and then they are being told they are the problem.

Yes, there were will always be some bad actors out there in the community. Welcome to the human race. The proper response and reaction to this is for ZOS to enforce its own TOS that was already in place and action their accounts when they act like twerps, not to enforce collective punishment against the entire pvp community.

Veteran players seem to like the lock, the only griping about it is when coming to this forum by you and a select few. There are a few ways ZoS can counter problems you mentioned, factions with less population could be given an incentive for more/better rewards to earn at the end of a campaign for people to play them

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

But, more seriously and less facetiously, the only things faction locks is preventing is people helping DC in off hours like used to happen in the past. Since the Xpack launched, this primary campaign has been more one sided than is typical.

What faction locking does do is legitimize AvAvA as the pvp mode that Cyrodiil was designed to be. It is a first step at creating a meaningful AvAvA experience.

What does that even mean? It sounds like something that should be on a pamphlet, not here in the forum of a video game.

This isn't an esport, and therefore doesn't require the fidelity of one. This is more like a big paintball arena where you can come and go as you please.

A good, enjoyable experience in Cyrodiil is far more rooted in server performance, enjoyable mechanics, good class balance, and the ability to work with groups of fellow players. That latter has taken a hit due the locks, as people find themselves unable to associate at will or play with particular characters they may have grown attached to.

There is no tribal loyalty that the factions are owed, as in reality they are arbitrary color designations for different teams in a game (ala Red vs Blue). I don't need my pick of "Red" as a color legitimized, nor defended. If someone decides to swap to Blue or Yellow it doesn't mortally offend me.

How casual do you want this game? the one tamriel is open for PVE, team up with whatever faction and stop the threat, locks should have never been taken off to begin with. Why even chose an alliance? because this is the way they wanted PVP to be experienced and how it began.

It's about time we see some more faction pride, most serious PVP guilds already cater to one faction, its the casual PVE crowd that seem to be wanting to revert the locks. Your mode is unlocked... GO play it.

DisgracefulMind

IronWooshu wrote: »

Veteran players seem to like the lock, the only griping about it is when coming to this forum by you and a select few. There are a few ways ZoS can counter problems you mentioned, factions with less population could be given an incentive for more/better rewards to earn at the end of a campaign for people to play them

That's not true at all. There are a lot of players who hate the lock, and most of them aren't on the forums. I'm in several guilds, some have150+ players in each who are all highly against it.

I understand that you're on one side of this thing, and that's fine, but please stop putting us all in the same group. I've been playing since beta, and can list off, personally, probably over 100 players who are also here since beta who think this is stupid.

You're entitled to your personal opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

The forums are a very, very small sample of the players.

Siohwenoeht

Hollerboller wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

The presentation of the main storyline is one such issue.

lol do you hate the main storyline because the whole premise is faction swapping?

Unfortunately he's hell-bent on taking us backwards instead of forwards. Faction lock is only good if there are equal campaigns for those who don't want it either. No-cp players are definitely hurting.

The argument has been made that there isn't enough pvp population to support 2 locked and 2 unlocked campaigns but having that many at least for a month or two would be the only legitimate way to determine which is more popular. I've a sneaking suspicion that some of these posters that border on zealotry are deeply afraid they may be the minority.

I say this as one who supports faction locks, but not as they are currently, and would much prefer incentives for faction loyalty instead.

If there are so many anti faction lock people, why do they not play on the unlocked campaign? Is it because it is not a 30 day campaign? Is it because it is empty? Maybe the overwhelming masses of anti faction lock people should use the option they have. All i hear from them are excuses. Someone in this thread calls faction lock supporters crybabies, in reality anti faction lock supporters are the only crybabies i see in every thread involving faction lock. Again they have the option to play an unlocked campaign.

I generally agree, but there is not an unlocked no-cp Cyro campaignn. Those folks truly have no choice.

Marcus684

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Hollerboller wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

The presentation of the main storyline is one such issue.

lol do you hate the main storyline because the whole premise is faction swapping?

Unfortunately he's hell-bent on taking us backwards instead of forwards. Faction lock is only good if there are equal campaigns for those who don't want it either. No-cp players are definitely hurting.

The argument has been made that there isn't enough pvp population to support 2 locked and 2 unlocked campaigns but having that many at least for a month or two would be the only legitimate way to determine which is more popular. I've a sneaking suspicion that some of these posters that border on zealotry are deeply afraid they may be the minority.

I say this as one who supports faction locks, but not as they are currently, and would much prefer incentives for faction loyalty instead.

If there are so many anti faction lock people, why do they not play on the unlocked campaign? Is it because it is not a 30 day campaign? Is it because it is empty? Maybe the overwhelming masses of anti faction lock people should use the option they have. All i hear from them are excuses. Someone in this thread calls faction lock supporters crybabies, in reality anti faction lock supporters are the only crybabies i see in every thread involving faction lock. Again they have the option to play an unlocked campaign.

I generally agree, but there is not an unlocked no-cp Cyro campaignn. Those folks truly have no choice.

Oh but they do have a choice, they just don’t like their choices.

Rin_Senya

IronWooshu wrote: »

Veteran players seem to like the lock, the only griping about it is when coming to this forum by you and a select few. .

This is simply not true. I can guarantee you that all top tier PVP guilds with oldschool players are against faction lock.

vamp_emily wrote: »

When i play it is really hard to believe EP is ignoring DC for whatever reason because I always see 40+ EP zerging to bleakers. If we weren't a threat then why send 40?

It's not about "being a threat" or anything like this whatsoever. It's about faction just zerging mindlessly one direction (e.g.Bleakers). There is no strategy behind it or any clever plans.

vamp_emily wrote: »

I didn't say DC was the best, I just noticed DC improving.

Personally I think DC degraded a lot past 6-8 months.

What DC need is a top tier guilds that not just PVD KC or BB 24/7, spend their time sieging milegates to prevent any PVP happening at all, or sit in sneak for 10 min before engaging any other good group and then wipe etc but guilds that ACTUALLY go and fight enemy raids and can take and hold important objectives during prime time like Fare or Arrius.

vamp_emily wrote: »

As far and DC doesn't have the ability to fight back, that is funny because we just wiped Drac at ash. It took us a bit but we "pugs" did it.

Eeeeeh? Just to clarify: there was at least one DC guild there and like 40-50 pugs. Mb next time turn nameplates on :P

technohic

Did I hear some nonsense about anybody leaving DC alone when they can't fall back?

Pretty sure there were a lot of Omni and Drac and Tyrd tags when this was happening, with the hammer coming back toward the DC home keep who have no scrolls already. They brought it clear from EPs gates to DCs so its not like they just picked it up in the area and needed to feed it



This was Thursday about 930 to 10 PM eastern. Tonight when I logged in, a gate on DC was open as I just got the message coming in and just left. There is a lot of PvDooring some ground when AD and EP finally get into it. So then if you take a snapshot just at that point of time, then it looks even, but it was only 3 way pop locked Thursday night for DC for like 10 minutes.

I did get in earlier today for a minut and saw DC population running the map so its not like any faction is clean in just taking the easiest path to AP. Its just kind of disappointing all around.


I disconnected like 3 times while Omni and Drac were in the area and I was pretty much ready to call it quits.

IronWooshu

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Veteran players seem to like the lock, the only griping about it is when coming to this forum by you and a select few. There are a few ways ZoS can counter problems you mentioned, factions with less population could be given an incentive for more/better rewards to earn at the end of a campaign for people to play them

That's not true at all. There are a lot of players who hate the lock, and most of them aren't on the forums. I'm in several guilds, some have150+ players in each who are all highly against it.

I understand that you're on one side of this thing, and that's fine, but please stop putting us all in the same group. I've been playing since beta, and can list off, personally, probably over 100 players who are also here since beta who think this is stupid.

You're entitled to your personal opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

The forums are a very, very small sample of the players.

I never said ALL veteran players like it and I too am in several guilds, some have 150+ players in each who are for it. Even before I joined a few of them the leader would say we predominantly play this faction or maybe you haven't noticed each guild has a faction symbol to represent it? Faction lock may have been lifted but this was never intended when designing the game and should only have been lifted for PVE, not PVP.

You're entitled to your personal opinion, but my own facts are from who Ive talked too and apparently a lot of people asked for faction locks or they would have never redid them, this also allows ZoS to bring back their vision of what Cyro should have been.

Now there are BG's for people who want to PVP with freinds in different factions

Rin_Senya wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Veteran players seem to like the lock, the only griping about it is when coming to this forum by you and a select few. .

This is simply not true. I can guarantee you that all top tier PVP guilds with oldschool players are against faction lock.

ok, why you lie?

I would like to hear from them. Most PVP guilds are catered more towards one faction.

Show me proof that ALL the top tier PVP guilds are against faction lock..

..... Why did it happen then?

DisgracefulMind

IronWooshu wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Veteran players seem to like the lock, the only griping about it is when coming to this forum by you and a select few. There are a few ways ZoS can counter problems you mentioned, factions with less population could be given an incentive for more/better rewards to earn at the end of a campaign for people to play them

That's not true at all. There are a lot of players who hate the lock, and most of them aren't on the forums. I'm in several guilds, some have150+ players in each who are all highly against it.

I understand that you're on one side of this thing, and that's fine, but please stop putting us all in the same group. I've been playing since beta, and can list off, personally, probably over 100 players who are also here since beta who think this is stupid.

You're entitled to your personal opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

The forums are a very, very small sample of the players.

I never said ALL veteran players like it and I too am in several guilds, some have 150+ players in each who are for it. Even before I joined a few of them the leader would say we predominantly play this faction or maybe you haven't noticed each guild has a faction symbol to represent it? Faction lock may have been lifted but this was never intended when designing the game and should only have been lifted for PVE, not PVP.

You're entitled to your personal opinion, but my own facts are from who Ive talked too and apparently a lot of people asked for faction locks or they would have never redid them, this also allows ZoS to bring back their vision of what Cyro should have been.

Now there are BG's for people who want to PVP with freinds in different factions

Rin_Senya wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Veteran players seem to like the lock, the only griping about it is when coming to this forum by you and a select few. .

This is simply not true. I can guarantee you that all top tier PVP guilds with oldschool players are against faction lock.

ok, why you lie?

I would like to hear from them. Most PVP guilds are catered more towards one faction.

Show me proof that ALL the top tier PVP guilds are against faction lock..

..... Why did it happen then?

You didn't get the point when I said you're not entitled to your own facts. No one person can just conjure facts that have no solidified source or evidence that support them. Maybe learn some reading comprehension; understanding concepts helps when trying to have productive discussions with other people.

I also never stated that there are only anti-faction lock people in guilds with a lot of people who had similar opinions as them, nor did I ever express that I thought that's what you were explicitly stating.

Perhaps you should try to grasp the concept that there will always be opinions other than your own.

Also it's been highly discussed and shown that there isn't any "hard evidence" that ZoS made this decision based on a "vision" of how Cyrodiil should run. They said, and I paraphrase, "some people asked for it so we thought we'd give it a try and see how it goes."

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to create facts. Please learn that facts are just that (if you need to look up a definition of the word "fact," I highly recommend it), but your opinions are not facts. We can have discussions, but you cannot, certainly, claim any inside knowledge into how things are "meant to be," or, for that matter, any design visions in regards to Cyrodiil, as I highly doubt you are on any of the teams of people that discuss the future of the game and its design focuses.