Seriously, this game is too easy and the overworld needs to be buffed heavily.

Ydrisselle

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The reason games like WOW and Eeverquest back in the early 2000's took teams to complete overland content is that those game required a bit more from players and players were more willing to invest more time into the game to achieve those ends.

Times have changed; we have moved onto people grinding out for days, weeks, and months on end for the truly best item to where players are now looking for the quickest and easiest way to reach end game. Most games, even those with some grinding set into the game provides players the option to reach end game faster. ESO has potions to help us reach level 50 faster and champion points are shared across the account. Even now they offer the ability to buy the Sky shards through the store.

Welcome to 2019, where things are made to be easier and less challenging. This allows more players to get into the game. With that said, game do provide elite players a way to show off their skill by having leader boards in PVP and even PVE now.

Iccotak wrote: »

Asking for no Attributes is silly However I have been playing a Necromancer with no CP, and no crafted sets, and no food.
And I agree with OP the single player overland content is Far Too Easy. Being an MMO the game should encourage people to work together and even if it's solo-able, doesn't mean it should be So Easy.
For example World of Warcraft in classic days was difficult enough that players decided to work together to complete quests, it wasn't a forced requirement but it certainly made things easier for them and encouraged people to be social.

Below is a section from my post critique of Elsweyr and the game
Link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475780/spoilers-elsweyr-player-critiques

Overland content is so depressingly easy for new players, you could watch new characters in the zone just curbstomp everything with ease. Overland doesn't need to be as hard as Craglorn, or a dungeon, or a Trial. But I am certain that new players could handle zones that were closer to the difficulty of a public dungeon.

ZOS seems to only do their best and most interesting PvE combat for group content, meanwhile the only challenging solo content is the maelstrom arena from the Orsinium DLC which came out 4 years ago. We know that ZOS is capable of designing more challenging solo content

Just because the zone is designed to be solo-able doesn't mean that the solo content has to be boringly easy. With how powerful players can be at the start, they could certainly take on 4-5 enemies at a time that had a smarter Ai as well as more variation in their combat mechanics.
I don’t agree with Forcing players to group but I would suggest difficulty to encourage players to work together to complete content while still being solo-able by single players.

every time people bring up classic WoW as an example of challenge, a few more of my braincells die. the reason, the MAIN reason why WoW became so successful is BECAUSE IT WAS CASUAL AND EASY. becasue it was the first MMO on the market that was SOLO FRIENDLY. Everquest all but required grouping. WoW? did NOT. that was the whole point. that it was the easy and casual friendly MMO. no other MMO at the time offered that.

success of WoW and mmo's becoming mainstream was literally due to the exact opposite of what you all are claiming.

WoW was not all easy at launch. That changed over time. WoW at launch was a bit more challenging and closer to Everquest than many games are today. Games today allow players to jump into the game and be nearly end game ready in less than week. You could not do that originally with WoW or Everquest; you needed to grind your butt off to get to end game.

In fact, some games allow you to buy your way to end game.

ESO is at an in between game where we have ways to get to end game quicker but we cannot simply buy our way to end game like some F2P games have. And ESO is not like Everquest where you have to grind with a group for months on end to reach end game.

Most games are becoming way more EASY to please the masses. The players who want harder content are a small niche group. And when the devs deliver truly good challenging content, part of that niche group than gripes about how difficult the content is most content if not all content is typically designed for average or below average player.

I use to enjoy extremely difficult content that took hours and hours to beat. However, things have changed for me and now I don't have the time to sit in a raid for 2-3 hours trying to beat it. I don't have the time to even do 2 hours of gaming a night. So for me casual gaming is what I seek and if it is easy that is fine to; since it will allow me to complete more content. That is the type of player that most MMO games are now being designed around. Players who have less than 2 hours a day to play and want to beat dungeons and open land area rather quickly so they can get more done in the game.

Vanilla WoW was not that hard. There was 2 types of "overland" content which were not soloable at your level: world bosses (like Azuregos, later the Nightmare dragons) and the elite subzones (Hogger, Moonbrook, Dun Baldar, Dun Algaz etc.). The latter bacame soloable if you outlevelled them. The only thing made it hard that nobody knew its mechanisms yet. It was not clear if rogues needed strength or only agility; it was not clear what the hell should a druid do; it was not clear if a melee hunter would be viable. Today it's entirely different, and that's why Classic WoW wouldn't be the same.

Wifeaggro13

Linaleah wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The reason games like WOW and Eeverquest back in the early 2000's took teams to complete overland content is that those game required a bit more from players and players were more willing to invest more time into the game to achieve those ends.

Times have changed; we have moved onto people grinding out for days, weeks, and months on end for the truly best item to where players are now looking for the quickest and easiest way to reach end game. Most games, even those with some grinding set into the game provides players the option to reach end game faster. ESO has potions to help us reach level 50 faster and champion points are shared across the account. Even now they offer the ability to buy the Sky shards through the store.

Welcome to 2019, where things are made to be easier and less challenging. This allows more players to get into the game. With that said, game do provide elite players a way to show off their skill by having leader boards in PVP and even PVE now.

Iccotak wrote: »

Asking for no Attributes is silly However I have been playing a Necromancer with no CP, and no crafted sets, and no food.
And I agree with OP the single player overland content is Far Too Easy. Being an MMO the game should encourage people to work together and even if it's solo-able, doesn't mean it should be So Easy.
For example World of Warcraft in classic days was difficult enough that players decided to work together to complete quests, it wasn't a forced requirement but it certainly made things easier for them and encouraged people to be social.

Below is a section from my post critique of Elsweyr and the game
Link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475780/spoilers-elsweyr-player-critiques

Overland content is so depressingly easy for new players, you could watch new characters in the zone just curbstomp everything with ease. Overland doesn't need to be as hard as Craglorn, or a dungeon, or a Trial. But I am certain that new players could handle zones that were closer to the difficulty of a public dungeon.

ZOS seems to only do their best and most interesting PvE combat for group content, meanwhile the only challenging solo content is the maelstrom arena from the Orsinium DLC which came out 4 years ago. We know that ZOS is capable of designing more challenging solo content

Just because the zone is designed to be solo-able doesn't mean that the solo content has to be boringly easy. With how powerful players can be at the start, they could certainly take on 4-5 enemies at a time that had a smarter Ai as well as more variation in their combat mechanics.
I don’t agree with Forcing players to group but I would suggest difficulty to encourage players to work together to complete content while still being solo-able by single players.

every time people bring up classic WoW as an example of challenge, a few more of my braincells die. the reason, the MAIN reason why WoW became so successful is BECAUSE IT WAS CASUAL AND EASY. becasue it was the first MMO on the market that was SOLO FRIENDLY. Everquest all but required grouping. WoW? did NOT. that was the whole point. that it was the easy and casual friendly MMO. no other MMO at the time offered that.

success of WoW and mmo's becoming mainstream was literally due to the exact opposite of what you all are claiming.

WoW was not all easy at launch. That changed over time. WoW at launch was a bit more challenging and closer to Everquest than many games are today. Games today allow players to jump into the game and be nearly end game ready in less than week. You could not do that originally with WoW or Everquest; you needed to grind your butt off to get to end game.

In fact, some games allow you to buy your way to end game.

ESO is at an in between game where we have ways to get to end game quicker but we cannot simply buy our way to end game like some F2P games have. And ESO is not like Everquest where you have to grind with a group for months on end to reach end game.

Most games are becoming way more EASY to please the masses. The players who want harder content are a small niche group. And when the devs deliver truly good challenging content, part of that niche group than gripes about how difficult the content is most content if not all content is typically designed for average or below average player.

I use to enjoy extremely difficult content that took hours and hours to beat. However, things have changed for me and now I don't have the time to sit in a raid for 2-3 hours trying to beat it. I don't have the time to even do 2 hours of gaming a night. So for me casual gaming is what I seek and if it is easy that is fine to; since it will allow me to complete more content. That is the type of player that most MMO games are now being designed around. Players who have less than 2 hours a day to play and want to beat dungeons and open land area rather quickly so they can get more done in the game.

compared to everything else on the market at the time, WoW was practically brain dead easy, to use the vernacular some of you like to use. it was never particularly challenging.

what it was.. and what ESO is despite the outdated concept of endgame people keep trying to shove at it - is an ongoing journey that you could undertake completely solo or with friends if you wished. and you can do so in small chunks at a time. oh dungeons could take a while, but you didn't have to do dungeons. you could just quest here and there, explore a little. picks some herbs, some ore. random casual solo things. That soloability and ability to play a little and still feel like you accomplished something was in WoW from the start. endgame was.. kinda there, sorta, but the point was the journey.

the only thing ESO change was scale it so that you could keep having that journey and for it to be still relevant even after you reached "max level" while in WoW, eventualy you would outlevel the zones and mobs and rewards would be gray to you. when people say that ESO has 10 hours of content just because it takes that long (IF YOU GRIND WITH XP SCROLLS) to get to level 50 is just... sad. its like despite ZoS creating all these stories to play through and then making them all relevant with One Tamriel - they suddenly seize to exist at lvl 50? they don't. all these stories, all that content - its still all there, still relevant. kinda the point.

you....... nevermind WOW didnt do well because it was easy. it was labled EQ 2.0 because it was far closer in diffculty to EQ then Eq2 was. WOW was a smash success because it had a massively popular IP in the warcraft RTS. it was hardware friendly compared to SWG EQ2 and the other smaller bandwagon jumpers so far more people could play the game in 2004when most games were upping the grpahics price of addmission for their game WOW lowered it.

Dusk_Coven

Smasherx74 wrote: »

There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge.

Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging, maybe similar to soloing a solo-able world boss.

Read what you are writing and you will realize that you missed the point.
You called them "trash mobs" and that is what most overworld mobs are supposed to be -- diversions to break up the tedium of simply going from A to B. By increasing the difficulty, grind would increase when your time is spent travelling instead of doing something interesting and meaningful.
You talk about quest and delve bosses being similar to a solo-able world boss? Do you know how many boring minutes of my life tick by killing a world boss solo? The purpose of a quest or delve mini-boss is to give you a shot of excitement with a sudden jump in difficulty. It is not to block you or force you to set aside 10, 20, 30 minutes just to finish a small quest or diversion. Not everyone has hours a day to play and with what time they have they want to move ahead with what they want to do, not blow it all doing just the one thing.

Challenging content IS there -- going into a dungeon or trial solo. Upping it to Veteran and going in solo or under-manned. Go do that and get your fill of being killed repeatedly. Other people actually want to get things done and not just grind.

This is an MMO, so try to remember that they have to more or less account for the lowest common denominator.
You can instead just load up one of their moddable Elder Scrolls titles and tweak the difficulty to whatever you like.
Or run around Tamriel naked and use no skills. That will help you customize your difficulty as well.

Goregrinder

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge.

Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging, maybe similar to soloing a solo-able world boss.

Read what you are writing and you will realize that you missed the point.
You called them "trash mobs" and that is what most overworld mobs are supposed to be -- diversions to break up the tedium of simply going from A to B. By increasing the difficulty, grind would increase when your time is spent travelling instead of doing something interesting and meaningful.
You talk about quest and delve bosses being similar to a solo-able world boss? Do you know how many boring minutes of my life tick by killing a world boss solo? The purpose of a quest or delve mini-boss is to give you a shot of excitement with a sudden jump in difficulty. It is not to block you or force you to set aside 10, 20, 30 minutes just to finish a small quest or diversion. Not everyone has hours a day to play and with what time they have they want to move ahead with what they want to do, not blow it all doing just the one thing.

Challenging content IS there -- going into a dungeon or trial solo. Upping it to Veteran and going in solo or under-manned. Go do that and get your fill of being killed repeatedly. Other people actually want to get things done and not just grind.

This is an MMO, so try to remember that they have to more or less account for the lowest common denominator.
You can instead just load up one of their moddable Elder Scrolls titles and tweak the difficulty to whatever you like.
Or run around Tamriel naked and use no skills. That will help you customize your difficulty as well.

Yeah, there are already means of tweaking how difficult your gameplay is in game.

Starlight_Knight

I'm currently wanting to make a new char and play through all the quests, I already have all end game gear and over 1.2k CP
I immediately get put off starting that adventure by being able to one shot everything - even just with white gear i find on the floor i can plough my way through any over land content without any challenge.
Its really dull, as there is a lot of lore and great quests to explore - if only i had the incentive or the challenge to do so...

RavenSworn

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I'm currently wanting to make a new char and play through all the quests, I already have all end game gear and over 1.2k CP
I immediately get put off starting that adventure by being able to one shot everything - even just with white gear i find on the floor i can plough my way through any over land content without any challenge.
Its really dull, as there is a lot of lore and great quests to explore - if only i had the incentive or the challenge to do so...

I support increasing the difficulty but I have to agree with @Linaleah here, you have to think of the ones that do not have cp points or perhaps entering the mmo scene or how casual some players are in the game.

However @Linaleah, I do not agree with an instanced version of overland, simply because that in itself will segregate the player base much like how pre 1T did with the levelling in "veteran" zones.

Those that suggest taking off gear, taking off cp... It's just artificial difficulty.

Giving meaning or a bit of difficulty to the mobs or at least even the quest bosses would go a long way towards building a better player base.

Sharee

RavenSworn wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I'm currently wanting to make a new char and play through all the quests, I already have all end game gear and over 1.2k CP
I immediately get put off starting that adventure by being able to one shot everything - even just with white gear i find on the floor i can plough my way through any over land content without any challenge.
Its really dull, as there is a lot of lore and great quests to explore - if only i had the incentive or the challenge to do so...

I support increasing the difficulty but I have to agree with @Linaleah here, you have to think of the ones that do not have cp points or perhaps entering the mmo scene or how casual some players are in the game.

However @Linaleah, I do not agree with an instanced version of overland, simply because that in itself will segregate the player base much like how pre 1T did with the levelling in "veteran" zones.

Those that suggest taking off gear, taking off cp... It's just artificial difficulty.

Giving meaning or a bit of difficulty to the mobs or at least even the quest bosses would go a long way towards building a better player base.

Just to chime in: I recently returned to the game to make a necromancer and decided to play it as if it was the only character on the account: no CP used, no help from the alts whatsoever, wearing what i can craft or what dropped(mostly the latter).

The game is still no challenge whatsoever. And its not because i can weave light attacks perfectly or some other insider knowledge i might have - the standard mobs simply do not do enough damage to overcome my healing. Only moderate challenge i encountered was the dragon fight in the instanced elsweyr quest - not that i died, mind, but i had to start paying attention.

The way i see it, the "single player" (so no world bosses etc.) overland game is balanced to be played by people who have no idea about food, potions, replacing low level weapons with better ones when they drop, or not knowing how to slot skills. If you know all these basics, you will never be challenged.

Golden_Cat

This game is too easy for some people so we should just find a way to nerf the $#!T out of them instead of forcing other people to play the way they probably don't want .

Dusk_Coven

Golden_Cat wrote: »

This game is too easy for some people so we should just find a way to nerf the $#!T out of them instead of forcing other people to play the way they probably don't want .

I think ZOS actually already tries to by tweaking Health. afaik if you are level 3 you have more health than when you are cp 160 and food does more for you when you are lower levels. Pretty sure a starter toon has 10k+ health whereas my magsorc has less than 10k

Sharee

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Golden_Cat wrote: »

This game is too easy for some people so we should just find a way to nerf the $#!T out of them instead of forcing other people to play the way they probably don't want .

I think ZOS actually already tries to by tweaking Health. afaik if you are level 3 you have more health than when you are cp 160 and food does more for you when you are lower levels. Pretty sure a starter toon has 10k+ health whereas my magsorc has less than 10k

Its not just health. All low level characters get an invisible buff that boosts all their relevant stats, to compensate for the fact they are lacking the equipment and skills, but are expected to fight the same monsters as the maxed-out level 50's (due to One Tamriel).

The buff gradually wears off as you gain levels, and you are expected to compensate by getting better equipment etc. This leads to a weird counter-intuitive perception of "getting weaker as you level up instead of stronger" - but that's only true if you ignore equipment upgrades and such.

albesca

Sharee wrote: »

The buff gradually wears off as you gain levels, and you are expected to compensate by getting better equipment etc. This leads to a weird counter-intuitive perception of "getting weaker as you level up instead of stronger" - but that's only true if you ignore equipment upgrades and such.

If you regularly upgrade your gear you won't get weaker, but you'll still be forced to specialize in either stamina or magicka (unless you're consciously working toward a hybrid build): I had a mix of skills while levelling in both my NB main and my DK alt; when they approached the middle thirties the secondary stat skills of both of them had become too weak to be useful, so I had to turn them to pure stamina and pure magicka respectively.

About the game difficulty, I recently got interested in public dungeons with Rimmen Necropolis and Orcrest and I was impressed (or unimpressed, take your pick) when I found that I could solo most of the bosses with my main (that is also my crafter, so he has a ton of skill points invested in non combat skills) and with my sorceress alt (a healer, so only using the backbar): I had some trouble with the one in Orcrest that regenerates health and couldn't try to solo the group events as they're pretty crowded and I was never in combat alone, but otherwise I did both dungeons without using potions and using food just to speed things up.

Xogath

Oh look, another scaling complaint thread.

Bryath

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I'm currently wanting to make a new char and play through all the quests, I already have all end game gear and over 1.2k CP
I immediately get put off starting that adventure by being able to one shot everything - even just with white gear i find on the floor i can plough my way through any over land content without any challenge.
Its really dull, as there is a lot of lore and great quests to explore - if only i had the incentive or the challenge to do so...

I've finished maybe 10% of the overland quests on each of my 3 level 50s and I'd love to do a lot more, but it's just too boring. Even my baby Warden is mostly levelling on dungeons and public dungeons because he blasts through everything else like its not even there, with only dropped gear and CP's in recovery only.
The quests and stories are pretty good, but I find I'd rather read a book or watch some Netflix, much more engaging than a game with no meaningful gameplay.
I'm glad some people like it just the way it is, but my interest is waning fast.
Just for reference, I'm lucky to hit 12k dps on a dummy, so I'm far from being some elite player with perfect end-game gear..

Pr0Skygon

Noblis01 wrote: »

I have said it once, and I will say it again : Don't wait for the devs to make the game "more difficult"
for you. Refund ALL of your CP and equip green gear. Then the game may be balanced.
If the devs add more HP to every mob and/or add greater resistances to every mob and/or introduce
a new NPC AI, the new and casual players will find another game. Then ESO closes. No more debate
over "this game is too easy."

Better yet, has anyone everdone HM Ruins of Mazzatun in all geen gear with only base game skills
(no caltrops, no horn, etc.?)

I have a level 4 Necromancer with 0 CP with a rag on my body, and it's almost impossible for a human NPC to kill me. How is that any fun? If anything, this sucks out any kind of immersion I'd love to have as a "new player" coming into the game, seeing how you literally cannot die while being impaled with a sword.

Pr0Skygon

Xogath wrote: »

Oh look, another scaling complaint thread.

Maybe because it's not working in the right way?

Pr0Skygon

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge.

Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging, maybe similar to soloing a solo-able world boss.

Read what you are writing and you will realize that you missed the point.
You called them "trash mobs" and that is what most overworld mobs are supposed to be -- diversions to break up the tedium of simply going from A to B. By increasing the difficulty, grind would increase when your time is spent travelling instead of doing something interesting and meaningful.
You talk about quest and delve bosses being similar to a solo-able world boss? Do you know how many boring minutes of my life tick by killing a world boss solo? The purpose of a quest or delve mini-boss is to give you a shot of excitement with a sudden jump in difficulty. It is not to block you or force you to set aside 10, 20, 30 minutes just to finish a small quest or diversion. Not everyone has hours a day to play and with what time they have they want to move ahead with what they want to do, not blow it all doing just the one thing.

Challenging content IS there -- going into a dungeon or trial solo. Upping it to Veteran and going in solo or under-manned. Go do that and get your fill of being killed repeatedly. Other people actually want to get things done and not just grind.

This is an MMO, so try to remember that they have to more or less account for the lowest common denominator.
You can instead just load up one of their moddable Elder Scrolls titles and tweak the difficulty to whatever you like.
Or run around Tamriel naked and use no skills. That will help you customize your difficulty as well.

I think you're confused between "increase the difficulty of overland content" and "increase the health of every single thing except the players".
Also, you're missing the point entirely about the difficulty for overland content. The idea is to make the game more exciting for new players coming into the game. Suggesting "going into a dungeon or trial solo" or "upping it to Veteran" have 0 value in this conversation and only prove that you have no idea what this thread is about.

martinhpb16_ESO

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^ i specially dodged several times to toggle that comment of yours. If you deny dodging you just prove how pointless your arguments are since dodging is basic mechanic of any action game.
But ok, no dodge, and i even increased my dps on 20% and received way less hits, since I became more experienced in fighting naked

Damage done


Damage received

so instead of dodging around giant, you just ran around him. the point. still. stands. you know how to move, you know how to play. what is it that you want exactly? one shots from the giant? so that people who don't have your reflexes have no chance at all? where is the fun in THAT? you know for people who are not you?

What? arent people supposed to learn? What is the point of a game like this if you learn nothing about the situational experience? How long does it take fro someone to learn how to move? jees

elvenmad

Just returned to the game after just over 2 years absent, came back cos WoW BFA just sucks, game is falling apart, Came back because i remember how good ESO was and it did have challenging content that made you think and actually learn has you progressed.

Still have and use the exact same gear and set ups I used 2 years ago, some hundings, spriggans, nothing really "special" have no new gear at all, CP was 580 (now it's 724) Purchased Elsweyr and started a Necromancer, leveled it in a day solo just Public Dungeon, World Boss grinding in the same places I used in the past, and noticed pretty much straight away everything seems to be far far easier than it ever was before.

I was expecting it to take me a while to get back into the flow of things and expected to be looking to upgrade my gear alot too, i mean it's been 2 years, but no everything is super easy even though I have not bothered using food buffs or potions, all I've used is XP scrolls and I can run through content like a GOD, even soloing a few Vet dungeons have not been any challenge at all when in the past I'm pretty sure some of them I remember required some thought and preparation.

Game definitely seems far far easier than I remember, whether it is or not I don't know, but after playing for 2 weeks now its been very underwhelming to what I remember it used to be like.

MEBengalsFan2001

Myrm wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

...That is from playing a variety of MMO games. Why do you think it is so easy to go from starting the game to reaching end game in less than a week and that is just playing the game 2 hours a day. Most games allow players to reach end game with 10-20 hours. That is a joke.

Fair point. Yes, I must admit, I hate it when games have only 10-20 hours content. I like games that offer so much more.

ESO design decision was to make the game scale to CP 160 from the start all the way to maxing out your character. Once you hit 160 achieve CP and decent obtained decent if not BiS gear the game does becomes easier. In fact, even leveling up the game isn't that hard do to the player being scaled upward.

Don't know if this was removed or not from the game but at one point the gear level was farily lower than your character level it impacted your stat negatively. Is that still in play and if so does it make a difference?

The question than become if a player has zero gear equipped. Does the game register that as the character with inferior gear lowering his or her stat below 160 CP or does it not register at all making it so that the player stats are still at 160 CP?

Linaleah wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The reason games like WOW and Eeverquest back in the early 2000's took teams to complete overland content is that those game required a bit more from players and players were more willing to invest more time into the game to achieve those ends.

Times have changed; we have moved onto people grinding out for days, weeks, and months on end for the truly best item to where players are now looking for the quickest and easiest way to reach end game. Most games, even those with some grinding set into the game provides players the option to reach end game faster. ESO has potions to help us reach level 50 faster and champion points are shared across the account. Even now they offer the ability to buy the Sky shards through the store.

Welcome to 2019, where things are made to be easier and less challenging. This allows more players to get into the game. With that said, game do provide elite players a way to show off their skill by having leader boards in PVP and even PVE now.

Iccotak wrote: »

Asking for no Attributes is silly However I have been playing a Necromancer with no CP, and no crafted sets, and no food.
And I agree with OP the single player overland content is Far Too Easy. Being an MMO the game should encourage people to work together and even if it's solo-able, doesn't mean it should be So Easy.
For example World of Warcraft in classic days was difficult enough that players decided to work together to complete quests, it wasn't a forced requirement but it certainly made things easier for them and encouraged people to be social.

Below is a section from my post critique of Elsweyr and the game
Link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475780/spoilers-elsweyr-player-critiques

Overland content is so depressingly easy for new players, you could watch new characters in the zone just curbstomp everything with ease. Overland doesn't need to be as hard as Craglorn, or a dungeon, or a Trial. But I am certain that new players could handle zones that were closer to the difficulty of a public dungeon.

ZOS seems to only do their best and most interesting PvE combat for group content, meanwhile the only challenging solo content is the maelstrom arena from the Orsinium DLC which came out 4 years ago. We know that ZOS is capable of designing more challenging solo content

Just because the zone is designed to be solo-able doesn't mean that the solo content has to be boringly easy. With how powerful players can be at the start, they could certainly take on 4-5 enemies at a time that had a smarter Ai as well as more variation in their combat mechanics.
I don’t agree with Forcing players to group but I would suggest difficulty to encourage players to work together to complete content while still being solo-able by single players.

every time people bring up classic WoW as an example of challenge, a few more of my braincells die. the reason, the MAIN reason why WoW became so successful is BECAUSE IT WAS CASUAL AND EASY. becasue it was the first MMO on the market that was SOLO FRIENDLY. Everquest all but required grouping. WoW? did NOT. that was the whole point. that it was the easy and casual friendly MMO. no other MMO at the time offered that.

success of WoW and mmo's becoming mainstream was literally due to the exact opposite of what you all are claiming.

WoW was not all easy at launch. That changed over time. WoW at launch was a bit more challenging and closer to Everquest than many games are today. Games today allow players to jump into the game and be nearly end game ready in less than week. You could not do that originally with WoW or Everquest; you needed to grind your butt off to get to end game.

In fact, some games allow you to buy your way to end game.

ESO is at an in between game where we have ways to get to end game quicker but we cannot simply buy our way to end game like some F2P games have. And ESO is not like Everquest where you have to grind with a group for months on end to reach end game.

Most games are becoming way more EASY to please the masses. The players who want harder content are a small niche group. And when the devs deliver truly good challenging content, part of that niche group than gripes about how difficult the content is most content if not all content is typically designed for average or below average player.

I use to enjoy extremely difficult content that took hours and hours to beat. However, things have changed for me and now I don't have the time to sit in a raid for 2-3 hours trying to beat it. I don't have the time to even do 2 hours of gaming a night. So for me casual gaming is what I seek and if it is easy that is fine to; since it will allow me to complete more content. That is the type of player that most MMO games are now being designed around. Players who have less than 2 hours a day to play and want to beat dungeons and open land area rather quickly so they can get more done in the game.

compared to everything else on the market at the time, WoW was practically brain dead easy, to use the vernacular some of you like to use. it was never particularly challenging.

what it was.. and what ESO is despite the outdated concept of endgame people keep trying to shove at it - is an ongoing journey that you could undertake completely solo or with friends if you wished. and you can do so in small chunks at a time. oh dungeons could take a while, but you didn't have to do dungeons. you could just quest here and there, explore a little. picks some herbs, some ore. random casual solo things. That soloability and ability to play a little and still feel like you accomplished something was in WoW from the start. endgame was.. kinda there, sorta, but the point was the journey.

the only thing ESO change was scale it so that you could keep having that journey and for it to be still relevant even after you reached "max level" while in WoW, eventualy you would outlevel the zones and mobs and rewards would be gray to you. when people say that ESO has 10 hours of content just because it takes that long (IF YOU GRIND WITH XP SCROLLS) to get to level 50 is just... sad. its like despite ZoS creating all these stories to play through and then making them all relevant with One Tamriel - they suddenly seize to exist at lvl 50? they don't. all these stories, all that content - its still all there, still relevant. kinda the point.

I like One Tamriel as it made it so that there is no out leveling a zone. It made the whole game available to everyone even when new content launches a freshly new character can march right in there and play. It opened up a door to get more players playing together. The way it was executed was ok but I think the CP used for scaling should be adjusted every year to reflect how many CP players currently can achieve. Last time I played I think max CP was around 810 or was it 812 or so. The game should be updated to scale to 50% of the max CP players can achieve. This way even vet players would have to go out and grind for updated or new gear and improve the quality of that gear. Updating where the games scales would keep more players active to ensure their characters are wearing best gear.

rohunt

I would have to agree with OP to some extent. Like, I understand that people want to enjoy a single player elder scrolls, quest and be powerful 2/3 of the time as not to do group content all the time but, this is an MMO.. I wish the overworld stuff could be just a bit more harder and require some more help than just being able to run any build with any gear.

Also, being a healer main I who pugs 90 percent of vet dungeon runs, I see people who are 800cp plus ALL the time that just don't really know what they're doing that have probably just been hand-fed rewards by the overworld stuff. I PERSONALLY don't feel like there's much of a learning curve for A LOT of overworld content. There could be more things that require a real skill check and give mechanical experience that can be carried over into more "hardcore" stuff.

sentientomega

How about an instanced pre-Undaunted training ground? Where you can spawn mobs of the difficulty you're looking for to get the kind of preparation for hardcore content you're talking about. Surely, that's better than socking it to that part of the player-base that happens to include me. Why do so many people seem to be against relaxation gaming?

And I still back my solution of personalised stat sliders, that centre around players' characters, and not the environment. You farm the best gear that you can find, then fine-tine your sliders to hit that sweet spot.

And, as I've said before, I'm glad that ZOS leans towards safeguarding overworld gameplay for the far more casual player over the hardcore variety.

Nerouyn

SkerKro wrote: »

Hmm, so no Attribute Points, No CP, No Armor, No Weapon, Just basic skill points and class abilities.
Have video to support this? Cause this gets claimed a lot with these threads, but no video evidence to support it.

If you've played the game it's easy enough to believe.

I ran a character solo through the two Summerset public dungeons yesterday, including the group events. On a mag warden who apparently everyone accepts are the most gimped class in the game. With ridiculous ease. Having only done them once before a very long time ago.

With CP and food but naked cos I often don't bother to fix broken armor because I can get away with that.

CP does help but the OP is only talking about overworld PvE.

I recently took a mag necro through one of the Vvardenfell public dungeons without any CP just to see what that was like. In light armor and without having played necros for more than a few minutes through the tutorial.

Solo'ed everything with ease up until the group event which I got about 2/3rds of the way through before dying. And I hadn't really been playing the class properly. I was basically just spamming blast bones and the graveyard thingy and keeping the 2 pets up. Just letting corpses go to waste.

albesca

rohunt wrote: »

Also, being a healer main I who pugs 90 percent of vet dungeon runs, I see people who are 800cp plus ALL the time that just don't really know what they're doing that have probably just been hand-fed rewards by the overworld stuff.

I have about 500 CPs and three characters above level 50, a stamblade DD (my main), a magsorc healer and a magDK DD: while the former have appropriate gear sets and skills I'm still working on a build and rotation that suits my playstyle with the DK, so her performances are all over the place (but generally bad, at the moment).
That said, I agree that CPs are a measure of how much you played, rather than how good you are in combat

I PERSONALLY don't feel like there's much of a learning curve for A LOT of overworld content. There could be more things that require a real skill check and give mechanical experience that can be carried over into more "hardcore" stuff.

Overworld learning curve is rather flat, I agree: once you learn how and when to block, interrupt and stay out of the red, either by dodging or simply moving away, you can clear anything up to public dungeons, it's just a matter of how long it takes to kill mobs and bosses

daedalusAI

albesca wrote: »

rohunt wrote: »

Also, being a healer main I who pugs 90 percent of vet dungeon runs, I see people who are 800cp plus ALL the time that just don't really know what they're doing that have probably just been hand-fed rewards by the overworld stuff.

I have about 500 CPs and three characters above level 50, a stamblade DD (my main), a magsorc healer and a magDK DD: while the former have appropriate gear sets and skills I'm still working on a build and rotation that suits my playstyle with the DK, so her performances are all over the place (but generally bad, at the moment).
That said, I agree that CPs are a measure of how much you played, rather than how good you are in combat

I PERSONALLY don't feel like there's much of a learning curve for A LOT of overworld content. There could be more things that require a real skill check and give mechanical experience that can be carried over into more "hardcore" stuff.

Overworld learning curve is rather flat, I agree: once you learn how and when to block, interrupt and stay out of the red, either by dodging or simply moving away, you can clear anything up to public dungeons, it's just a matter of how long it takes to kill mobs and bosses

The curve is as flat as a sheet of paper:

• Every AoE-effect of enemies is telegraphed, so only paying attention to red circles/cones is sufficient
• Learning how to spot + block an attack is a matter of < 30min at best
• Light/heavy attacking without any use of abilities is almost sufficient to kill everything except bosses of any kind

The actual learning curve is limited to finding a build + items you enjoy, with the optional topic of learning how to weave.

I just came back not even 1 month ago after 2 years of absence from ESO, and except a better understanding of weaving I barely needed to do anything different, as there's only a small fraction of content which even requires a player to learn -> the default MO of most gaming companies of "lowest common denominator" programming in action.

Olauron

albesca wrote: »

Overworld learning curve is rather flat, I agree: once you learn how and when to block, interrupt and stay out of the red, either by dodging or simply moving away, you can clear anything up to public dungeons, it's just a matter of how long it takes to kill mobs and bosses

As it should be.

Nerouyn wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

Hmm, so no Attribute Points, No CP, No Armor, No Weapon, Just basic skill points and class abilities.
Have video to support this? Cause this gets claimed a lot with these threads, but no video evidence to support it.

If you've played the game it's easy enough to believe.

Or not. I've played a lot with a high CP character using 26-level and 36-level armour and weapons. Dying with such equipment is very easy, killing enemies is long and tedious. Even with CP160+ gear and about 450 allocated CP out of 770 gained (I don't bother allocating them before cap) I can easily lose 50% health to 3 salamanders in Summerset delve if I don't use self-heal, block and roll (and I usually don't use them, as I have zero stamina after sprinting the delve and only whip to heal).

Claims about being able to survive while doing nothing at all are absurd. A few weeks ago I've been in a place with extremely bad ping. It was so bad that I could get 10 or more seconds looking at "frozen" enemies with skills going nowhere. Skills were applied to enemies on my side, but there was no response from the server about their result. There was also no response from the server about enemy movements and attacks. Then after 10 or more seconds all my attacks and all enemy attacks were done in light-speed mode. Without self-heal it was certain death on all my high-CP characters. With self-heal (like Sorcs Surge) it was about 50-50 with 2 or more enemies depending on whether I hit enemies with those skills or missed because of their movement (that I was not seeing).

Vlad9425

Lol why? There’s plenty of difficult content out there why not keep the overworld as a chill zone? Also there are some world bosses out there which are quite difficult to defeat

thumpthing

Were pledge dungeons supposed to be soloable by casuals like me? That's how pathetically easy the content is right now

Pops_ND_Irish

Smasherx74 wrote: »

So with the new expansion, I decide to try something new. You know I'll just grind necro on a more min-maxed toon like redguard later, I just want to enjoy the story and experience casually like I would any Elder Scrolls game. (yes I'm weird like that). Sadly, this game is just too easy and I'm honestly tired of hearing people say the open world PVE isn't too easy. I have used 0 of my champion points, I also used no weapons or armor. Guess what? I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue. Since T1 scaled everything in this game, everything has just became far too easy. To the point I can't even take off all my CP, all my clothes, and go around bare knuckle boxing people, and I still feel like some overpowered god which ruins my immersion.

I know ZOS is trying to make their game as easy as possible for people ot zoom right through as if they're speedrunning. But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging, maybe similar to soloing a solo-able world boss. Aside from everything else, I'm not saying we need harder vet dungeons (we do, they're incredibly easy besides a few DLC ones), but I am saying we need a harder overworld.

Hehehe Mr. Wonderful You can wake up now !!!

Jhalin

Last week I rolled an argonian Necro tank

I get to the fight with the first “boss” necromancer after the dragon attack on the Khajiiti rebellion camp around level 6.

I literally stood completely still, casting no abilities, not dodging, not blocking, while standing in reds. The npcs straight up healed me through everything

I got up to go get a drink and when I came back I was still 100% hp.

I was able to get my health down to 60% when I intentionally ran into reds and out of the npc heal circle for about 3 solid minutes, at which point I accidentally stood still too long and the npc healed me back to full again, so i reached the limit of boredom I could take and light attacked the boss to death. The fight lasted about 10 seconds after that point

Whatever happened to being able to fail a challenge when you lack the skill and knowledge

Massacre_Wurm

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Noblis01 wrote: »

I have said it once, and I will say it again : Don't wait for the devs to make the game "more difficult"
for you. Refund ALL of your CP and equip green gear. Then the game may be balanced.
If the devs add more HP to every mob and/or add greater resistances to every mob and/or introduce
a new NPC AI, the new and casual players will find another game. Then ESO closes. No more debate
over "this game is too easy."

Better yet, has anyone everdone HM Ruins of Mazzatun in all geen gear with only base game skills
(no caltrops, no horn, etc.?)

I have a level 4 Necromancer with 0 CP with a rag on my body, and it's almost impossible for a human NPC to kill me. How is that any fun? If anything, this sucks out any kind of immersion I'd love to have as a "new player" coming into the game, seeing how you literally cannot die while being impaled with a sword.

Its not like level 4 char = 160cp 50 lvl char ( well , not quite but close )
Level to 30 with 0 CP and a rag. And then try some action.