Seriously, this game is too easy and the overworld needs to be buffed heavily.

Morgha_Kul

I don't disagree, I just think today's gamers are missing out, because figuring things out is part of the fun... at least, it used to be.

barney2525

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Kamatsu wrote: »

WoW - trying to cater more to hardcore and raiders by forcing players into harder dungeon types and raids just to get through the past 2 expansions .

There's a reason why a lot of MMO's are referred to as "WoW clones" and not "EQ clones" or such..

I disagree with your GW2 reasoning. People tack "hard" onto everything that doesn't work and use it as an excuse to further their argument.

But WoW. Funny you should mention that. WoW, the game that started this death to consequences easy-mode trash MMOs are these days, is on their beta of classic wow. Wait, what? People liked the harder, more tedious, actually having to be social and careful of elite mibs gameplay of wow so much that a private server that had over 800k finally forced blizzard to capitalize on this by recreating their vanilla game. And you're trying to argue for the simplistic trash BfA is now using WoW as an example?? Buahahahahaha.

Gonna let you in on a secret. All the old harder MMOs have private server with people maintaining the traditional difficulty of MMO playing. Hell, Ultima Online still has a sub model! Only this past March they started allowing people who haven't played their account in 180 days to log in a free account that is much more limited than the sub one.

And here we are just asking for harder quest bosses and that you need to dodge, block and interrupt in game or actually take damage and we are unreasonable.

And FYI GW2 combat in base game and expansions require this of it's players or the damage will kill them. Trying to argue GW2 had to step the difficulty down or die is a bit ridiculous when the pre-80 stuff is much more dangerous than anything overland ESO has to offer.

That is NOT what this thread is all about. I don't have any issue with That request.

This thread was started because the writer wants the equivalent of World Bosses as the standard Overland mobs. So that Every step you take is potential death.

They can't understand Concept and the BIg Picture of the game. They can't understand that there is a reason Overland creatures are not as tough as world bosses.

All they see is numbers. After playing for a long time the numbers on their characters are large. The numbers on Overland are small. CHANGE THE NUMBERS !

I don't understand how people can be so short sighted. Of course, then again, I don't understand why people DEMAND that everything be catered to their own specific Wants.

mb10

ZOS’a biggest issue is thinking that “more difficulty” is giving monsters more health and dealing more damage

What we mean is more skillset, combinations, faster mechanics.
Not one light attack every 3-4 seconds
Then the super slow typical front flip behind you lmao

Morgha_Kul

mb10 wrote: »

ZOS’a biggest issue is thinking that “more difficulty” is giving monsters more health and dealing more damage

What we mean is more skillset, combinations, faster mechanics.
Not one light attack every 3-4 seconds
Then the super slow typical front flip behind you lmao

A few blocks too, would be nice. As it is, I think only NPCs with shields actually block anything.

Aireal

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I don't disagree, I just think today's gamers are missing out, because figuring things out is part of the fun... at least, it used to be.

It is.. while the OP want's more difficulty ( as do others ) in tougher OW ( and some in WB and Dungeons ).. I would like to see more difficulty in the way of puzzles, riddles... quest's you have to talk to other NPC's to get information to finish.. without great big arrows pointing the way!

Jhalin

Aireal wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I don't disagree, I just think today's gamers are missing out, because figuring things out is part of the fun... at least, it used to be.

It is.. while the OP want's more difficulty ( as do others ) in tougher OW ( and some in WB and Dungeons ).. I would like to see more difficulty in the way of puzzles, riddles... quest's you have to talk to other NPC's to get information to finish.. without great big arrows pointing the way!

Can you imagine how nuts people would go if quest markers got removed? Like holy crud there’d be millions of complaint threads because they were being forced to read dialogue and use clues

navystylz_ESO

GoFigure wrote: »

EDIT: to respond to your edit. Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea.

-- So it sounds like they are at least wanting to do it some time in the future. It's really a shame this couldn't come out with 1T.

RIP

navystylz_ESO

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Now, compound that with the slower speed of non-dps builds, like tanking and healing builds. Talk about a slog...

Can we please stop pretending that these hypothetical players are tanks and healer. Well maybe they are people with heals on their bars. But tanks know what dodge roll, blocking and interrupting is. Tanks have no issues with overland content because they can be hurt even less than dps specced players. Tanks actually take the time to learn the game because in order to be a tank, you need to have an understanding of the content that goes beyond what the normal player needs to know so you can tank what hurts the most, and control the fight for your team.

There is no real tank in this game that think overland content is difficult. There is no actual tanks that don't understand how this game works that they have any issues killing overland mobs fast. These hypothetical tanks are not being held back. They do NOT need paper-thin enemies for them to effectively make it through content without slogging it.

You can't just throw heals and health on your character and call them a tank or healer. And most people serious about those roles are serious about knowing the game. Also, healers can dps superbly since the same magicka gear they are using to heal, is giving more than enough stats for their dps abilities to hit hard. And they have even smaller chance of dying than derp dps specs.

Morgha_Kul

Jhalin wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I don't disagree, I just think today's gamers are missing out, because figuring things out is part of the fun... at least, it used to be.

It is.. while the OP want's more difficulty ( as do others ) in tougher OW ( and some in WB and Dungeons ).. I would like to see more difficulty in the way of puzzles, riddles... quest's you have to talk to other NPC's to get information to finish.. without great big arrows pointing the way!

Can you imagine how nuts people would go if quest markers got removed? Like holy crud there’d be millions of complaint threads because they were being forced to read dialogue and use clues

I was actually saying exactly this in chat tonight!

Actually, I played Star Trek Online for a good while, and made a few missions for the Foundry system (a mission creator system). STO has the same problem a lot of games do, where it says "Find so and so" and then puts them on the map with a giant arrow on them, PLUS they flash and glow.

So, I created a mission SPECIFICALLY without that, where the player had to find a fugitive who was hiding from the Romulans. I had the Romulans wandering around dropping hints (eg. "Search parties to the north report nothing in that section. Focus searches in the south."). SO many players left complaints that they couldn't find the guy, so I had one of the Bridge Crew NPCs offer advice if asked, telling the PCs to listen for clues... and players STILL complained.

I hate to think how players like that would have handled some of the puzzles in Arena, Dungeon Master or Pool of Radiance... or games like that.

Sylvermynx

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I don't disagree, I just think today's gamers are missing out, because figuring things out is part of the fun... at least, it used to be.

It is.. while the OP want's more difficulty ( as do others ) in tougher OW ( and some in WB and Dungeons ).. I would like to see more difficulty in the way of puzzles, riddles... quest's you have to talk to other NPC's to get information to finish.. without great big arrows pointing the way!

Can you imagine how nuts people would go if quest markers got removed? Like holy crud there’d be millions of complaint threads because they were being forced to read dialogue and use clues

I was actually saying exactly this in chat tonight!

Actually, I played Star Trek Online for a good while, and made a few missions for the Foundry system (a mission creator system). STO has the same problem a lot of games do, where it says "Find so and so" and then puts them on the map with a giant arrow on them, PLUS they flash and glow.

So, I created a mission SPECIFICALLY without that, where the player had to find a fugitive who was hiding from the Romulans. I had the Romulans wandering around dropping hints (eg. "Search parties to the north report nothing in that section. Focus searches in the south."). SO many players left complaints that they couldn't find the guy, so I had one of the Bridge Crew NPCs offer advice if asked, telling the PCs to listen for clues... and players STILL complained.

I hate to think how players like that would have handled some of the puzzles in Arena, Dungeon Master or Pool of Radiance... or games like that.

People forgot how to read - they don't understand getting clues from text (or even VA - which I personally would love to do without).

So we have quest markers forever now....

Aireal

Jhalin wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I don't disagree, I just think today's gamers are missing out, because figuring things out is part of the fun... at least, it used to be.

It is.. while the OP want's more difficulty ( as do others ) in tougher OW ( and some in WB and Dungeons ).. I would like to see more difficulty in the way of puzzles, riddles... quest's you have to talk to other NPC's to get information to finish.. without great big arrows pointing the way!

Can you imagine how nuts people would go if quest markers got removed? Like holy crud there’d be millions of complaint threads because they were being forced to read dialogue and use clues

yep...cause the world would stop if people had to read... and think!

Notice board: Pull paper off... open.. Picture of an older woman with grey hair and bun. Job: Find culpable parties in the murder of sweet Lady... Clue/ Directions " Over the mountain and through the woods. Odd hairs and howling.

Open map: No quest arrow... Look at symbols.. on North/East quadrant.. symbol for mountains and then forest with the Town of Redding at the edge.

Kolache

barney2525 wrote: »

This thread was started because the writer wants the equivalent of World Bosses as the standard Overland mobs. So that Every step you take is potential death.

All overland mobs would be world bosses? Like packs of 3 world bosses together here and there? I know that there are a couple different ideas going on in this thread but I think you're either misunderstanding all of them or grossly exaggerating.

Sadetius

Cireous wrote: »

EDIT: to respond to your edit. Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea.

-- So it sounds like they are at least wanting to do it some time in the future. It's really a shame this couldn't come out with 1T.

As someone who has left ESO because of the lack of challenge in 90% of the content. This gives me a little hope.

Im not going to explain again why challenge is important, look at my post history, and you can read it, with the included sources.

I have always been a strong supporter of adding some kind of difficulty option to the game, so that all types of player can enjoy it.

While its sad that they don't have plans for it currently. I am really happy to hear an explanation why they did no do it. And the acknowledgement that it is a great idea.

I will definitely keeping an eye on ESO again. And like I always say, the moment difficulty options are present, I'll be back with friends.

I do really hope they will get around this in the near future.

srfrogg23

Sadetius wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

EDIT: to respond to your edit. Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea.

-- So it sounds like they are at least wanting to do it some time in the future. It's really a shame this couldn't come out with 1T.

As someone who has left ESO because of the lack of challenge in 90% of the content. This gives me a little hope.

Im not going to explain again why challenge is important, look at my post history, and you can read it, with the included sources.

I have always been a strong supporter of adding some kind of difficulty option to the game, so that all types of player can enjoy it.

While its sad that they don't have plans for it currently. I am really happy to hear an explanation why they did no do it. And the acknowledgement that it is a great idea.

I will definitely keeping an eye on ESO again. And like I always say, the moment difficulty options are present, I'll be back with friends.

I do really hope they will get around this in the near future.

I honestly can't blame them. Too many moving parts to that. The simplest solution would be an optional debuff mode, but that certainly won't alleviate the complaints. Not by a longshot. People *might* use it more than once, but as they're dying to open world mobs, they'll have lowbies and RPers ripping through groups of mobs like hurricanes without breaking a sweat. I just don't imagine that going over well with the people who choose to use the higher difficulty option.

So, therein lies the question, how does the company address things from a risk-vs-reward perspective? If it was me, I wouldn't change any of the rewards, but I'm not a game developer. I'm definitely not profiting off this game. The devs will probably want to add something in there to make the additional challenge feel "justified", but that would affect the entire game balance by adding a new source for higher tiered rewards.

Adding difficulty levels is a tough prospect. Although, it would be funny to see how altruistic people really are about wanting an additional challenge by giving them the option and not changing the rewards at all.

srfrogg23

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Now, compound that with the slower speed of non-dps builds, like tanking and healing builds. Talk about a slog...

Can we please stop pretending that these hypothetical players are tanks and healer. Well maybe they are people with heals on their bars. But tanks know what dodge roll, blocking and interrupting is. Tanks have no issues with overland content because they can be hurt even less than dps specced players. Tanks actually take the time to learn the game because in order to be a tank, you need to have an understanding of the content that goes beyond what the normal player needs to know so you can tank what hurts the most, and control the fight for your team.

There is no real tank in this game that think overland content is difficult. There is no actual tanks that don't understand how this game works that they have any issues killing overland mobs fast. These hypothetical tanks are not being held back. They do NOT need paper-thin enemies for them to effectively make it through content without slogging it.

You can't just throw heals and health on your character and call them a tank or healer. And most people serious about those roles are serious about knowing the game. Also, healers can dps superbly since the same magicka gear they are using to heal, is giving more than enough stats for their dps abilities to hit hard. And they have even smaller chance of dying than derp dps specs.

I don't have to pretend. This isn't just about whether or not people are dying in the content. It's about how quickly they kill things. Pacing, pacing, pacing.

People use a variety of builds for different roles and come with all levels of familiarity and skill. The open world content is made to accommodate for the widest range of players possible. And, while you may believe it's "too easy", not everyone feels that way.

Things get real redundant real fast when fights take too long. People lose interest when that happens. There's a reason why end game raiders are usually, if not always, the smallest subset of an MMO playerbase.

WoW classic is just around the corner, though. If you don't believe me, go try that out for a bit and see for yourself.

Aireal

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I don't have to pretend. This isn't just about whether or not people are dying in the content. It's about how quickly they kill things. Pacing, pacing, pacing.

People use a variety of builds for different roles and come with all levels of familiarity and skill. The open world content is made to accommodate for the widest range of players possible. And, while you may believe it's "too easy", not everyone feels that way.

Things get real redundant real fast when fights take too long. People lose interest when that happens. There's a reason why end game raiders are usually, if not always, the smallest subset of an MMO playerbase.

WoW classic is just around the corner, though. If you don't believe me, go try that out for a bit and see for yourself.

Pretty much this...

My DK Baran is probably never going to get to endgame.. reason, his stat's are all wrong, they are perfect for exploring and doing the occasional dungeon... even though he started the MQ.

If it takes more than a minute or so per mob in the OW, exploring gets to be no fun. I'm happy just tooling along, gathering materials, not dealing with every mob like they are mini-bosses.

Kolache

There are more options than two toggles that say:
Too easy | Too hard
Too fast | Too slow

Balance changes all the time. VR increases, 1T/scaling, every CP increase, every new monster type, every new dungeon, every new class, every new set, balance patches... it changes pretty often. The sentiment of "don't change anything, you'll break everything and ruin the game! everyone will quit!" seems pretty alarmist, especially considering nobody is really getting into a serious discussion about how to change it let alone actually testing it.

Aireal

Kolache wrote: »

There are more options than two toggles that say:
Too easy | Too hard
Too fast | Too slow

Balance changes all the time. VR increases, 1T/scaling, every CP increase, every new monster type, every new dungeon, every new class, every new set, balance patches... it changes pretty often. The sentiment of "don't change anything, you'll break everything and ruin the game! everyone will quit!" seems pretty alarmist, especially considering nobody is really getting into a serious discussion about how to change it let alone actually testing it.

True... I have no problem with changes.. I adapt pretty easy. It get's harder... I'll buckle down and craft better more optimal gear.. I ever think it's to easy, I'll start a new character and assess whether it's my high-level characters, my 'skill' or that the game got easier somehow.. then I will adapt to it.

It's only when I can' think of a RP that works for me that I quit a game... Fable II & III.. I still play Fable I... Heck, almost 9 yr's later I still play Skyrim.. still have 'vanilla' content I have not done...

Wifeaggro13

srfrogg23 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Now, compound that with the slower speed of non-dps builds, like tanking and healing builds. Talk about a slog...

Can we please stop pretending that these hypothetical players are tanks and healer. Well maybe they are people with heals on their bars. But tanks know what dodge roll, blocking and interrupting is. Tanks have no issues with overland content because they can be hurt even less than dps specced players. Tanks actually take the time to learn the game because in order to be a tank, you need to have an understanding of the content that goes beyond what the normal player needs to know so you can tank what hurts the most, and control the fight for your team.

There is no real tank in this game that think overland content is difficult. There is no actual tanks that don't understand how this game works that they have any issues killing overland mobs fast. These hypothetical tanks are not being held back. They do NOT need paper-thin enemies for them to effectively make it through content without slogging it.

You can't just throw heals and health on your character and call them a tank or healer. And most people serious about those roles are serious about knowing the game. Also, healers can dps superbly since the same magicka gear they are using to heal, is giving more than enough stats for their dps abilities to hit hard. And they have even smaller chance of dying than derp dps specs.

I don't have to pretend. This isn't just about whether or not people are dying in the content. It's about how quickly they kill things. Pacing, pacing, pacing.

People use a variety of builds for different roles and come with all levels of familiarity and skill. The open world content is made to accommodate for the widest range of players possible. And, while you may believe it's "too easy", not everyone feels that way.

Things get real redundant real fast when fights take too long. People lose interest when that happens. There's a reason why end game raiders are usually, if not always, the smallest subset of an MMO playerbase.

WoW classic is just around the corner, though. If you don't believe me, go try that out for a bit and see for yourself.

no one was talking about making the game hard for end game raiders. what gets redundant is 5 years into the game they release a new class and slog through insignifcant non rewarding content. truthfuly a little challenge in something that is already tedious by design is not such a bad thing. i dont hink half the people would mind so much if there was a slight bit vertical progression involved . And im not talking about adding more CP to that broken mess of an alternate advancement system they call CP. And dont say ZOs says they are looking into it. they have been looking into spell crafting for near for years. ZOS track record is not stellar with their game systems new,old or half finished unimplemented ideas.

Hollerboller

mb10 wrote: »

ZOS’a biggest issue is thinking that “more difficulty” is giving monsters more health and dealing more damage

What we mean is more skillset, combinations, faster mechanics.
Not one light attack every 3-4 seconds
Then the super slow typical front flip behind you lmao

Snares. Snares ewerywhere. Just saying :

Gundug

None of us can know what ZOS is thinking regarding current difficulty balancing, nor their future plans, but I think we can make some clear inferences as to which way the game is going.

It appears evident to me that overland content will likely not be designed with end game challenge in mind, and has been the case since One Tamriel. I recall adventuring solo in Craglorn prior to that update for months, and spending hours neither seeing nor hearing from any other player. This was a time when a small group of wasps could give a decent player a very hard time. After the patch, Craglorn was immediately busy, with people everywhere in the zone.

I think it is also notable that ZOS has not released any solo veteran difficulty trial since Orsinium. It would seem that they do not see the value in it. I have no data to look at, but wonder what percentage of the population attempts it, clears it, and regularly participates in it. I would expect if veteran Maelstrom was popular, we might have seen one or two other solo trials by now.

I run an embarrassingly excessive number of characters in development on four accounts through predominantly overland content, and have observed basically four main types of fellow players: questers who take the time to read/listen to what is going on in the quest, grinders who grab large groups of mobs to kill for quick xp, or who ride the completely brain dead dolmen trains, rushers who pull a chain of mobs after them, never fighting if they can help it, as they run a delve or zone, probably often going through content for the nth time and caring only about a quick skyshard or skill point granting quest completion, and finally, speed harvesters, who go out of their way to avoid combat.

None of these player types are necessarily looking for challenge, and in fact, might likely be annoyed at having to spend minutes to kill mobs or fight a boss.

I am sympathetic toward players who do want some challenge in their battles with quest bosses and so on, but it seems like the direction ZOS has chosen is for overland to be for story and as a later grind for new characters on veteran accounts to gather needed skill points. New multiplayer veteran content is where the challenge is intended.

I would not be against optional variable difficulty scaling in the game, where veteran players could choose their content to be at a greater difficulty, with greater rewards for completion. I’m also not at all convinced it would be any more difficult to implement than the current level scaling that already exists in the game for under-50 characters. Whether ZOS feels there is any value in implementing this is another story. I think the main problem is that there isn’t a lot of money to be made in updating what has already been sold to the customer.

srfrogg23

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Now, compound that with the slower speed of non-dps builds, like tanking and healing builds. Talk about a slog...

Can we please stop pretending that these hypothetical players are tanks and healer. Well maybe they are people with heals on their bars. But tanks know what dodge roll, blocking and interrupting is. Tanks have no issues with overland content because they can be hurt even less than dps specced players. Tanks actually take the time to learn the game because in order to be a tank, you need to have an understanding of the content that goes beyond what the normal player needs to know so you can tank what hurts the most, and control the fight for your team.

There is no real tank in this game that think overland content is difficult. There is no actual tanks that don't understand how this game works that they have any issues killing overland mobs fast. These hypothetical tanks are not being held back. They do NOT need paper-thin enemies for them to effectively make it through content without slogging it.

You can't just throw heals and health on your character and call them a tank or healer. And most people serious about those roles are serious about knowing the game. Also, healers can dps superbly since the same magicka gear they are using to heal, is giving more than enough stats for their dps abilities to hit hard. And they have even smaller chance of dying than derp dps specs.

I don't have to pretend. This isn't just about whether or not people are dying in the content. It's about how quickly they kill things. Pacing, pacing, pacing.

People use a variety of builds for different roles and come with all levels of familiarity and skill. The open world content is made to accommodate for the widest range of players possible. And, while you may believe it's "too easy", not everyone feels that way.

Things get real redundant real fast when fights take too long. People lose interest when that happens. There's a reason why end game raiders are usually, if not always, the smallest subset of an MMO playerbase.

WoW classic is just around the corner, though. If you don't believe me, go try that out for a bit and see for yourself.

no one was talking about making the game hard for end game raiders. what gets redundant is 5 years into the game they release a new class and slog through insignifcant non rewarding content. truthfuly a little challenge in something that is already tedious by design is not such a bad thing. i dont hink half the people would mind so much if there was a slight bit vertical progression involved . And im not talking about adding more CP to that broken mess of an alternate advancement system they call CP. And dont say ZOs says they are looking into it. they have been looking into spell crafting for near for years. ZOS track record is not stellar with their game systems new,old or half finished unimplemented ideas.

You might want to have a chit-chat with all the people who post these kinds of threads so yall can get your stories straight.

I honestly don't think you all have a defined request. A nebulous demand like "make it harder, but not too much" isn't exactly actionable. "Make it less boring" doesn't provide much direction either.

Your definition of "just the right amount of challenge" probably differs drastically from mine or anyone else's.

Besides that, as I said before, the current balance is based on ensuring the widest number of character builds and player skill levels will be able to progress through the content at a reasonable pace.

That's just the nature of leveling content. You will outgrow it eventually. Especially after 5 years. That being said, you figure out what you actually want and define it in a way that ensures everyone understands exactly what you have in mind, then you might see less opposition to your ideas.

Until, then, do try to keep in mind that just because you claim that "no one is asking for that", it doesn't make it true.

Leocaran

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Besides that, as I said before, the current balance is based on ensuring the widest number of character builds and player skill levels will be able to progress through the content at a reasonable pace.

But there's no balance at all. Literally. 'Balance' means there's some challenge for an average player (in progressing through content, of course, i.e. questing, not soloing WB and vet dungeons). There's none. And 'the widest number of character builds and player skill levels' actually means 'all of them'. (No, 2s ping and disabilities don't count. Sorry, but they also must not count.)

JadonSky

Jhalin wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I don't disagree, I just think today's gamers are missing out, because figuring things out is part of the fun... at least, it used to be.

It is.. while the OP want's more difficulty ( as do others ) in tougher OW ( and some in WB and Dungeons ).. I would like to see more difficulty in the way of puzzles, riddles... quest's you have to talk to other NPC's to get information to finish.. without great big arrows pointing the way!

Can you imagine how nuts people would go if quest markers got removed? Like holy crud there’d be millions of complaint threads because they were being forced to read dialogue and use clues

They do have quest like this in some of the new zones. Like Wrothgar has the museum where you just get a clue book, Morrowind has the ritual finder and molag bal peices quest where you just get clues no quest points, and now Elsweyr has the tablet quest where you just get a quest scroll with clues.

Aireal

Leocaran wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Besides that, as I said before, the current balance is based on ensuring the widest number of character builds and player skill levels will be able to progress through the content at a reasonable pace.

But there's no balance at all. Literally. 'Balance' means there's some challenge for an average player (in progressing through content, of course, i.e. questing, not soloing WB and vet dungeons). There's none. And 'the widest number of character builds and player skill levels' actually means 'all of them'. (No, 2s ping and disabilities don't count. Sorry, but they also must not count.)

Says who? No challenge for whom?

I may not be skilled in ESO , but I am darn good with other games I play.. including Dark Souls and Dark Souls II..all the Witcher games..Skyrim on Legendary ..etc.. once I learned those games they were not as difficult as everyone seems to think they are.

Skill and knowledge of a game go well to making them seem like they lack challenge. Stripping a high lvl character does nothing, starting a new character only slight challenge... but put 10 people to playing that never have before and are how many would think WB and Trials are no challenge...a truly average player would find some...some of the OW a challenge.

Just because you dont, doesn't mean others don't.

Kalgert

I thought I could make a mention, saying that I see a lot of people talk about vMA being "Easy as ***", and yet I die to the first/second arena.

So much for it being easy! I think I'll stick to the outside world and adventure with my girlfriend, take her through Craglorn and have a pretty decently challenging experience there. Honestly, the world being on the level of Craglorn wouldn't be all that bad if I'll be honest.

Wifeaggro13

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Now, compound that with the slower speed of non-dps builds, like tanking and healing builds. Talk about a slog...

Can we please stop pretending that these hypothetical players are tanks and healer. Well maybe they are people with heals on their bars. But tanks know what dodge roll, blocking and interrupting is. Tanks have no issues with overland content because they can be hurt even less than dps specced players. Tanks actually take the time to learn the game because in order to be a tank, you need to have an understanding of the content that goes beyond what the normal player needs to know so you can tank what hurts the most, and control the fight for your team.

There is no real tank in this game that think overland content is difficult. There is no actual tanks that don't understand how this game works that they have any issues killing overland mobs fast. These hypothetical tanks are not being held back. They do NOT need paper-thin enemies for them to effectively make it through content without slogging it.

You can't just throw heals and health on your character and call them a tank or healer. And most people serious about those roles are serious about knowing the game. Also, healers can dps superbly since the same magicka gear they are using to heal, is giving more than enough stats for their dps abilities to hit hard. And they have even smaller chance of dying than derp dps specs.

I don't have to pretend. This isn't just about whether or not people are dying in the content. It's about how quickly they kill things. Pacing, pacing, pacing.

People use a variety of builds for different roles and come with all levels of familiarity and skill. The open world content is made to accommodate for the widest range of players possible. And, while you may believe it's "too easy", not everyone feels that way.

Things get real redundant real fast when fights take too long. People lose interest when that happens. There's a reason why end game raiders are usually, if not always, the smallest subset of an MMO playerbase.

WoW classic is just around the corner, though. If you don't believe me, go try that out for a bit and see for yourself.

no one was talking about making the game hard for end game raiders. what gets redundant is 5 years into the game they release a new class and slog through insignifcant non rewarding content. truthfuly a little challenge in something that is already tedious by design is not such a bad thing. i dont hink half the people would mind so much if there was a slight bit vertical progression involved . And im not talking about adding more CP to that broken mess of an alternate advancement system they call CP. And dont say ZOs says they are looking into it. they have been looking into spell crafting for near for years. ZOS track record is not stellar with their game systems new,old or half finished unimplemented ideas.

You might want to have a chit-chat with all the people who post these kinds of threads so yall can get your stories straight.

I honestly don't think you all have a defined request. A nebulous demand like "make it harder, but not too much" isn't exactly actionable. "Make it less boring" doesn't provide much direction either.

Your definition of "just the right amount of challenge" probably differs drastically from mine or anyone else's.

Besides that, as I said before, the current balance is based on ensuring the widest number of character builds and player skill levels will be able to progress through the content at a reasonable pace.

That's just the nature of leveling content. You will outgrow it eventually. Especially after 5 years. That being said, you figure out what you actually want and define it in a way that ensures everyone understands exactly what you have in mind, then you might see less opposition to your ideas.

Until, then, do try to keep in mind that just because you claim that "no one is asking for that", it doesn't make it true.

the option is to have actual progression in the game. right now in all the chapter releases you have nothing but here as a half ass story with some landscape with speed bumps everywhere.

Wifeaggro13

Aireal wrote: »

Leocaran wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Besides that, as I said before, the current balance is based on ensuring the widest number of character builds and player skill levels will be able to progress through the content at a reasonable pace.

But there's no balance at all. Literally. 'Balance' means there's some challenge for an average player (in progressing through content, of course, i.e. questing, not soloing WB and vet dungeons). There's none. And 'the widest number of character builds and player skill levels' actually means 'all of them'. (No, 2s ping and disabilities don't count. Sorry, but they also must not count.)

Says who? No challenge for whom?

I may not be skilled in ESO , but I am darn good with other games I play.. including Dark Souls and Dark Souls II..all the Witcher games..Skyrim on Legendary ..etc.. once I learned those games they were not as difficult as everyone seems to think they are.

Skill and knowledge of a game go well to making them seem like they lack challenge. Stripping a high lvl character does nothing, starting a new character only slight challenge... but put 10 people to playing that never have before and are how many would think WB and Trials are no challenge...a truly average player would find some...some of the OW a challenge.

Just because you dont, doesn't mean others don't.

there is challenge in trials and four man dungeons. the issue becomes when the leveling experience did nothing to teach you how to play a role, build a character , and work as a group. then you have a massive skill gap when players hit the end game. they meet those who have played the game long term and scream they are elietists. they are not .most of them are just tired of teaching a rotating population how to play their character. you should know how to do that already and the only thing they teach you is the mechanics. im a filthy casual , i hardly ever do Trials most of time was spent in 4 mans. its just bad game design. we should not have huge swathes of people leaving when the story is done its called retention

Leocaran

Kalgert wrote: »

Honestly, the world being on the level of Craglorn wouldn't be all that bad if I'll be honest.

Not sure what you mean exactly, but that could be even a bit overkill, if you include those mob packs&bosses that fall from white(?) rifts in the area.

Aireal wrote: »

Leocaran wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Besides that, as I said before, the current balance is based on ensuring the widest number of character builds and player skill levels will be able to progress through the content at a reasonable pace.

But there's no balance at all. Literally. 'Balance' means there's some challenge for an average player (in progressing through content, of course, i.e. questing, not soloing WB and vet dungeons). There's none. And 'the widest number of character builds and player skill levels' actually means 'all of them'. (No, 2s ping and disabilities don't count. Sorry, but they also must not count.)

Says who? No challenge for whom?

Well, you were reading my post, then probably it's 'Says I'. Also there was a phrase 'for an average player', and that's an answer for 'No challenge for whom?'. If we want some more specifics, let's say this means 'people with the median DPS'.

Kalgert wrote: »

Skill and knowledge of a game go well to making them seem like they lack challenge. Stripping a high lvl character does nothing, starting a new character only slight challenge... but put 10 people to playing that never have before and are how many would think WB and Trials are no challenge...a truly average player would find some...some of the OW a challenge.

And this I don't understand at all. Also, how it's even relevant to the discussion. Also, I specifically (and a lot of others here) mentioned that WB and Trials (and vet dungeons) aren't included, and you are still using them somehow in your vague ... statement. I'm not sure, but it also seems you are trying to use 'no true Scotsman' trick there. Not cool if that's the case.

Aireal

Leocaran wrote: »

Says who? No challenge for whom?

Well, you were reading my post, then probably it's 'Says I'. Also there was a phrase 'for an average player', and that's an answer for 'No challenge for whom?'. If we want some more specifics, let's say this means 'people with the median DPS'.

Kalgert wrote: »

Skill and knowledge of a game go well to making them seem like they lack challenge. Stripping a high lvl character does nothing, starting a new character only slight challenge... but put 10 people to playing that never have before and are how many would think WB and Trials are no challenge...a truly average player would find some...some of the OW a challenge.

And this I don't understand at all. Also, how it's even relevant to the discussion. Also, I specifically (and a lot of others here) mentioned that WB and Trials (and vet dungeons) aren't included, and you are still using them somehow in your vague ... statement. I'm not sure, but it also seems you are trying to use 'no true Scotsman' trick there. Not cool if that's the case.
[/quote]

Yeah, I read your post.. and the other 24 pages of them. While I quoted what you said, it's a reoccurring theme that many other people have posted. Right on the 1st page their are three separate posters who say the same thing about the OW, Delves and one even says Trials are a joke - with the right group and equipment.

I could quote them.. but that would make for one long post! I am all for an optional difficulty ( toggle, slider, de-buff ) adjustment mechanism. I'm an average 'casual' player, I DO like a challenge, but not in the OW.. where I would have it just trying to gather materials.

My Two Crafters are the only characters who won't 'earn' their own CP, Skyshards. These are not characters that I look at when I say the OW is challenging enough...No it's my characters in their 30's and the one in his 40's... The ones that are just high enough that the 'beginning 160cp Buff' is wearing thin.

As I have no clue what the 'No true Scotsman" trick is.. I'm pretty sure I am not trying to use it.