Are the "Dragon's " in Elsweyr miss identified ?

Iccotak

This AGAIN?
It's funny when the OP acts like they're so much so smarter & know better, when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.
I mean you do know that Dragon literary translation is basically just a large snake right?
Or the fact that Skyrim Dragons are based on Norse depictions of Dragons?
or that a Wyvern is basically a Dragon?

Instead of explaining like I have done dozens of times before I'll just drop this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8huan7xaYeQ

Iccotak

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

According to typical mythical fantasy definitions, Dwarves are short people with big beards, but in Elder Scrolls they're just
another type of Elf of supposedly average elven height. Why do Dragons have to follow a particular mythical definition, and not Dwarves?

Funnily enough in the original folklore Dwarves were basically another name for elves.
Much of the mainstream "Dwarf" comes from tolkein.

WolfingHour

:heatedcorngrainwithbutter:

AbysmalGhul

Clearly this is a problem. The Wyverns are taking all of the Dragon jobs! But at the same time, Wyverns have to eat too

Quite the dilemma....

alanmatillab16_ESO

Partieplayin wrote: »

It seems to me there are allot of misconceptions and miss identifications of Dragons in today's modern age . Simply put Dragons have 4 legs and wings whereas Wyvren's which is the artists rendition in the expansion have 2 legs and wings attached to the arms making them Wyvren's . Historically or mythologically ESO's classification of the creatures are incorrect.
Why don't we call carnotaurus a tyrannosaurus? Because they are not the same creature and identifying one as the other is incorrect.

I think this should be changed asap younger people who are ignorant of the fact or people may just not know the difference or the truth. I think misleading people into thinking these are dragons and not wyverns is not right. Please just call them as they are "Wyvrens" or design actual Dragons for the game please and thank you.

These are Tamriel Dragons.

Please provide links to fossil records of dragons that can show us what they are "really" like, which is how they can confidently say what dinosaurs are like.

Also, go look up a Komodo Dragon and come back.

Quaesivi

Thats the thing, in the established folklore/fantasy that comes since medieval times, dragons had 4 legs. It has always been that, its the number of legs. You can show chinese/japanes dragons but still, they also have 4 legs, hence, dragons.

Wyverns have always been shown as the scrawny, smaller, and mostly stupider cousins of dragons, with 2 legs. Thats what we get with GoT, and what we get in Tamriel as well.

The issue is that it can be whatever the creator wants, sure, for example either trolls or orcs were supposed to be the cursed elves anyways. Losing the beauty, the brains and all that.


The reason why Tamriel dragons are wyverns is basically because dragons, in most lores, unless an infant, have always been neigh-omnipotent. That has been their thing, being the ultimate power, give or take, usually accompanied by the ability to take a human shape as well.

There are depictions of the dragons and wyverns in history, so call them whatever you want. If it does not have 4 legs, it will never be a dragon. You can call it a dragon, but that is the same as calling a stone a rock, similar, but not the same, yet the distinction is lost to most.

Michae

@Aenthel
Seriously, watch this video.

Iccotak wrote: »

This AGAIN?
It's funny when the OP acts like they're so much so smarter & know better, when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.
I mean you do know that Dragon literary translation is basically just a large snake right?
Or the fact that Skyrim Dragons are based on Norse depictions of Dragons?
or that a Wyvern is basically a Dragon?

Instead of explaining like I have done dozens of times before I'll just drop this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8huan7xaYeQ

CMDR_Un1k0rn

They're actually Dovah... An entirely original race unique to the Elder Scrolls universe.

"Dragon" is just a misnomer used by the common people of Tamriel who are not versed in the Dovah language.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Next, we discuss why Bald Eagles aren't bald.

Michae

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

They're actually Dovah... An entirely original race unique to the Elder Scrolls universe.

"Dragon" is just a misnomer used by the common people of Tamriel who are not versed in the Dovah language.

Yeah, exactly. Same with elves (mer), dwarves (dwemer) etc.

EvilAutoTech

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Next, we discuss why Bald Eagles aren't bald.

But they are bald. They can't grow hair.

Quaesivi

@Michae

That video does prove my point in a way. As I said, they are cousins, subgroup, sub-category, whatever it is that you want to call it.

Depiction of the word has more historical issues that you can find googling so I'll not get into that. But calling wyverns dragons is same as calling lions/panthers etc. cats. It is not wrong, but it is not correct. There is a thing you call cat, and then there are members of the same species. Same with dragons. There are Dragons, then there are dragons. There are not just wyverns but drakes and wyrms as well. They are still dragons, but they are categorized and hence possess a distinct name instead of dragons.

Grimm13

You all are wrong, They are Sky Sharks.

Michae

@Aenthel

Tamriel is not your typical fantasy world and it has it's own spin on everything. So I don't know why people get pissy about dragons. In tamriel those are dragons, period. I mean why aren't you criticizing other things not being the same as in folk tales or classic fantasy setting?
I mean here's the traditional dwarf:

and here's TES dwarf:


Want another example?
Here's traditional folk troll:

Tolkien troll:

LotR film troll:

And finally TES troll:


Why aren't you arguing that TES dwarves/trolls/whatever aren't the real dwarves/trolls/whatever when they are even further removed from their generic, traditional appearances from other media? Bah, the dragons in Skyrim and ESO fit very well with many depictions that were also called dragons, not wyverns. And once again, Tamriel is a world on it's own, it takes a lot from standard fantasy setting terminology but has it's own unique spin on almost everything. If the lore says those are dragons then those are dragons. I acknowledge that in some depictions two legged dragons are called wyverns, but it's not a general rule that's universal among every culture's folklore. My country's folklore has dragons and it doesn't have wyverns. So what are you arguing about?

DeadlyRecluse

It's about ethics in video game zoology!

Quaesivi

@Michae

I think you also missed the part that where I said the issue with all these arguments is that the creator can call it whatever he/she wants?

I never said one is wrong and other is right, it is simply a family of species that are named distinctively. And the issue with dwarves is that the "shortness" of dwarves only came after Tolkien, according to nordic lore, they are more like old men with beard and really good at fighting/smithing and all that. Nothing about height. Which coincidentally is actually quite like dwemers instead. They are just depicted as "man of the earth" kinda vibe.

And as for trolls, which are once again more nordic/scandinavian origin, have different shapes/types depending on their locations. It was basically translated as demons/fiends or something like that, again, an overarching class, not a subclass. There are various trolls, forest trolls, ice trolls etc., giving birth to various depictions.

aaisoaho

Aenthel wrote: »

@Michae

That video does prove my point in a way. As I said, they are cousins, subgroup, sub-category, whatever it is that you want to call it.

Depiction of the word has more historical issues that you can find googling so I'll not get into that. But calling wyverns dragons is same as calling lions/panthers etc. cats. It is not wrong, but it is not correct. There is a thing you call cat, and then there are members of the same species. Same with dragons. There are Dragons, then there are dragons. There are not just wyverns but drakes and wyrms as well. They are still dragons, but they are categorized and hence possess a distinct name instead of dragons.

I went to fly fish and I caught a fish. Would it make a meaningful difference if I told you it was a trout, or is the word fish sufficient? IMO it is sufficient in this context to talk about dragons, rather than specifying them as wyverns; because it does not make a meaningful difference.

Liww

yes they are actually the offspring of argonian and giants

dragoniants

Varana

Aenthel wrote: »

But calling wyverns dragons is same as calling lions/panthers etc. cats. It is not wrong, but it is not correct.

"Wyvern" is an English term in heraldry for two-legged, two-winged dragons.
It's not a subspecies, it's not a fish-herring thing, it's not a "doesn't exist anyway so it doesn't matter" thing.

The clear distinction between "wyvern" and "dragon" does not come from mythology.

It's appropriate in English(-only!) heraldry and DnD.
Everywhere else, the number of legs or wings doesn't matter. They're all dragons.

Nemesis7884

Dragons with 4 legs just look stupid and unrealistic

TheInfernalRage

jaws343 wrote: »

If the people of Nirn call them dragons, they are dragons.

First comment and the mic drops.

Ogou

Varana wrote: »

Aenthel wrote: »

But calling wyverns dragons is same as calling lions/panthers etc. cats. It is not wrong, but it is not correct.

"Wyvern" is an English term in heraldry for two-legged, two-winged dragons.
It's not a subspecies, it's not a fish-herring thing, it's not a "doesn't exist anyway so it doesn't matter" thing.

The clear distinction between "wyvern" and "dragon" does not come from mythology.

It's appropriate in English(-only!) heraldry and DnD.
Everywhere else, the number of legs or wings doesn't matter. They're all dragons.

I'd really like to drive home the "only English" part. Both French and Spanish heraldry do not make a distinction between the two symbols. In fact, they both commonly refer to the wyvern as "heraldic dragon".

StormeReigns

https://youtu.be/dJFowpNkhDg
The only true dragon ever.

Xoelarasizerer

From a design point, I'm gonna wildly guess that ZOS preferred to remain consistent with BGS making dragons with 2 legs prior in TES5 Skyrim, rather than raise other questions from other peeps by giving dragons 4 legs for this content/time period of Elder Scrolls lore.

The "Avatar of Akatosh" from TES4 Oblivion and Nafaalilargus from TESA: Redguard also only both had 2 legs, too.

ghostliquid

I don't understand the argument, I suppose. A "Dragon" in fantasy is just a construct of the fantasy. Since they aren't real or haven't been discovered if they were - they can look like ANYTHING and be correct.

You could use the Chocobo from Final Fantasy in ESO and just say - "Yup, dragon." and be as correct as using a giant lizard with wings.

Look at Harry Potter - they have a basilisk that looks like an abomination of a snake and a pissed off barricuda. In history a basilisk it is like a "reverse" cockatrice and has lizard/chicken features. That Harry Potter snake did NOT look like a chicken to me.

It's just as right as its just... fantasy.

BuddyAces

Y'all mfers going on 6 pages arguing over what is and isn't the proper terminology of a mythical creature. It's a g'damn dog with wings and y'all aren't goin to change me mind.

Gundug

I’m so tired of my pet dragons, Miss Identified and Mister Dragon’s Breath being misidentified. People being ignorant makes me want to ignore their rant. I simply cannot allot my time to a lot of nonsense.

Sevn

Now this is the ESO community that I know and love! I came for the comments and was not disappointed!

I do love how OP states everyone is ignorant except him, man that's ballsy! Something else to consider OP, this generational thing you stated? Dunno, I'd wager most here have quite a few miles on them, maybe more than you!

xxthir13enxx

SkerKro wrote: »

https://youtu.be/dJFowpNkhDg
The only true dragon ever.

That game stole Soooo many of my darn quarters....st00pid defective buttons...grumble grumble...*RAGE QUIT*

Blinkin8r

Skyrim had Wyverns and called them Dragons.
ESO is introducing Wyverns and calling them Dragons.
It's lore friendly my dude.