Are the "Dragon's " in Elsweyr miss identified ?

SydneyGrey

Wyverns are a type of dragon.

therift

Partieplayin wrote: »

Bipedal equals Wyvren if your going to use mythical creatures at least get it right.

Complete and utter balderdash.

Have youever seen a four-legged dragon? No, you have not. There is no such thing as four-legged dragons.

Chrlynsch

Dude drives up in a car.

Other dude on the street looks at the car and says, "Nice car!"

Dude in car says "it is not a car it's a BMW."

Partieplayin

This is getting heavy

kringled_1

If you're going to be ridiculously pedantic about a mythological definition, please carry that over to your spelling. Call them wyverns if you must, don't expect me to. Calling them wyvrens just hurts my brain.

GimpyPorcupine

Partieplayin wrote: »

People say that dragons are mythical creatures because no evidence has been found of there existence yet almost every culture around the know world has some form of flying serpent in there lore I find that a bit strange consider golbal communication supposedly wasn't a thing. Just like all the ancient megalithic structures were built with chisels and hammers right

One theory from evolutionary psychology is that dragons are an archetypal amalgamation of cats, snakes, and birds of prey, all of which preyed upon our early ancestors, and that their appearance in lore worldwide suggests how long ago this "programming" entered into our mythos.

But I wasn't there, so I can't say for certain.

ArchangelIsraphel

Partieplayin wrote: »

People say that dragons are mythical creatures because no evidence has been found of there existence yet almost every culture around the know world has some form of flying serpent in there lore I find that a bit strange consider golbal communication supposedly wasn't a thing. Just like all the ancient megalithic structures were built with chisels and hammers right

A lot of dragon mythology actually has it's roots in the appearance of meteorites, comets, and other heavenly bodies in the sky which were metaphorically re-interpreted as dragons by various cultures. In many cases humans in these cultures did not actually believe in the existence of these creatures so to speak, but used them as an allegory to teach lessons in their society via storytelling.

I see you are recognizing that human beings universally use similar imagery, which is very true- if you have any interest in further research on this topic and some theories as to why this is so, you might want to look into Joseph Campbell's writings which go into detail about the similarities between mythologies across various cultures.

Did all those flying serpents have 4 legs and 2 wings? Why are you calling them dragons then?

I'm just going to take a moment to say that all of these creatures would have their own names in their own culture, but the universally agreed upon English umbrella term slapped on them is "dragon" as the closest possible translation to what the imagery resembles. Oriental dragons, for example, are vastly different in terms of their mythological roots than their European counterparts.

The fact of the matter is, even though Dragons are pretend, made up creatures, there are certain mythological roots these creatures derive from, and while I agree that the Elder Scrolls universe can call them whatever they want, in a sense the OP is correct in that the terms are being blurred together. Our culture constantly redefines mythology in games and modern stories, and because of that much of the old roots of these things can become lost when no one cares enough to look back at the past.

(Although I have no doubt that there are creatures called "dragons" in other old mythologies that do not have front feet and look like what we might also call a Wyvern. I've always thought of Wyverns as another type of dragon, personally.)

Jaraal

In a world where wood elves are not stealthy, wyverns can be dragons. Or horses. Whatever the lore of the week says they should be.

DreadDaedroth

Who did this ''scientific'' classification of dragons?
Have you seen all the different depictions of dragons in different paintings with Saint George as theme?

GimpyPorcupine

@Partieplayin , all land vertebrates are or were tetrapods, and that includes dinosaurs. So if you want to be strict about the dragon/wyvern difference, then dragons are definitely mythical, whereas wyverns could possibly have existed but are yet undiscovered. Of course, many of their attributes from the world of fantasy, such a fire-breathing, lust for gold, and human-comprehensible speech, are fantastic.

Ratzkifal

"Fire breathing lizard" is way more defining for a dragon than "quadruped with wings".

redspecter23

Bethesda makes the rules. ZOS interprets them. If Tamriel's dragons have 2 legs, that's what the rule is and that's how it goes. When you make your own fantasy world, you can call things whatever you want, even if people argue about it on the interwebs for no real good reason.

A_Silverius

Wyverns are Dragons.

Partieplayin

I have to admit I was not aware this was a long debated thing. I didn't play Skyrim when it first came out so I missed all that debate stuff, but have personally noticed in recent years the original ideal of a dragon has changed and the visual difference between a Wyvren and a Dragon literally means nothing anymore because people choose it to be.

therift

Partieplayin wrote: »

I have to admit I was not aware this was a long debated thing. I didn't play Skyrim when it first came out so I missed all that debate stuff, but have personally noticed in recent years the original ideal of a dragon has changed and the visual difference between a Wyvren and a Dragon literally means nothing anymore because people choose it to be.

There have been other threads which became... combative. Which is silly, of course.

Cheezits94

Ah, so in the universes of Elder Scrolls and Game of Thrones, everything has to be the same as in our world? interesting.

Dracan_Fontom

Wyverns are still a class of dragons

max_only

This topic again?

No problem.

Post beating the dead dragon gif.

ManwithBeard9

max_only wrote: »

This topic again?

No problem.

Post beating the dead dragon gif.

Can't. Necromancers took the dragon.

StormeReigns

Partieplayin wrote: »

It seems to me there are allot of misconceptions and miss identifications of Dragons in today's modern age . Simply put Dragons have 4 legs and wings whereas Wyvren's which is the artists rendition in the expansion have 2 legs and wings attached to the arms making them Wyvren's . Historically or mythologically ESO's classification of the creatures are incorrect.
Why don't we call carnotaurus a tyrannosaurus? Because they are not the same creature and identifying one as the other is incorrect.

I think this should be changed asap younger people who are ignorant of the fact or people may just not know the difference or the truth. I think misleading people into thinking these are dragons and not wyverns is not right. Please just call them as they are "Wyvrens" or design actual Dragons for the game please and thank you.

Nothing like using long expired troll bait in a cheaply disguised tuna can and claiming it to be fresh. @OP is bad, should feel bad and should quit everything they are involved in.

SomeDogsAreCops

Ogou wrote: »

Here we go again. I guess the Wood Elves also have to be made vegetarian now. The dwarves have to be made short. Ebony has to be a wooden material. Should I keep going?

>Dwarves have to be made short
Well...yes

essi2

Wyverns are very similar to dragons, and in many languages, cultures and contexts no clear distinction is made between the two. Since the sixteenth century, in English, Scottish, and Irish heraldry, the key difference has been that a wyvern has two legs, whereas a dragon has four. However, this distinction is not commonly observed in the heraldry of other European countries, where two-legged dragon-like creatures being called dragons is entirely acceptable

EDIT: Also some Germanic dragons have no limbs at all :shrug:

Glurin

therift wrote: »

Partieplayin wrote: »

Bipedal equals Wyvren if your going to use mythical creatures at least get it right.

Complete and utter balderdash.

Have youever seen a four-legged dragon?

Yup.

Waffennacht

SomeDogsAreCops wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

Here we go again. I guess the Wood Elves also have to be made vegetarian now. The dwarves have to be made short. Ebony has to be a wooden material. Should I keep going?

>Dwarves have to be made short
Well...yes

Lul TES just trolled you then; because in ESO Dwarves aren't even Dwarves..... But Elves!!!!!



Btw no such thing as wyvern in TES

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Partieplayin wrote: »

It seems to me there are allot of misconceptions and miss identifications of Dragons in today's modern age . Simply put Dragons have 4 legs and wings whereas Wyvren's which is the artists rendition in the expansion have 2 legs and wings attached to the arms making them Wyvren's . Historically or mythologically ESO's classification of the creatures are incorrect.
Why don't we call carnotaurus a tyrannosaurus? Because they are not the same creature and identifying one as the other is incorrect.

I think this should be changed asap younger people who are ignorant of the fact or people may just not know the difference or the truth. I think misleading people into thinking these are dragons and not wyverns is not right. Please just call them as they are "Wyvrens" or design actual Dragons for the game please and thank you.

We are NOT doing this again.

Get OUT.

Ogou

SomeDogsAreCops wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

Here we go again. I guess the Wood Elves also have to be made vegetarian now. The dwarves have to be made short. Ebony has to be a wooden material. Should I keep going?

>Dwarves have to be made short
Well...yes

Don't question it. (If I remember correctly the in universe explanation was that they were given the name Dwarves by the giants).

Partieplayin

@skerkro when I grew up Dragons were drangons and Wyvrens were Wyvrens .

It has only recently come to my attention that the younger generation cares not which is Ture but which they care to believe is true. If you have any sense you will discover all the falsities in our history all the *** we are taught to be Ture when our minds were young like a spung
For example : "Christopher Columbus was the first one to discover America"
-- if you believe this your are the most ignorant person I have ever met.

What worries me the most is that no one seems to care anymore, this is why history will repete itself because no one cares . Not that this is as improtant part of our history .But I digress I really don't care to discuss this subject any further because there are far to many ignorant people that I don't have the time or energy to educate .

xxthir13enxx

Nope Nope Nope NOPE

How...!? Why....!?
What is people’s obsession with this distinction between Wyverns and Dragons!?

Guess we should rename this lil fella too

ManwithBeard9

Obvious troll is obvious.

essi2

@Ogou

Dwemer is the real (Elven) name for the Dwarves. It is pronounced: DWAY-mare. Some translations are "Short Folk", "Smart Folk" and, what is probably the best translation, "Deep Folk". Probably "Deep" as in "intelligent and multi-levelled" as opposed to a reference to some kind of physical depth.

The name "Dwarves" is used mostly by non-Elven races and has misguiding connotations. There have been rumors that the name "Dwarves" was given by the Giants that lived in Morrowind when the Dwemer first lived there. Thus (possibly) the confusion. A variation on the rumor suggests that the ancestors of Men and Mer, described as the "titantic" Ehlnofey (also known as the Earthbones), named the Dwemer. In this model, the name is actually a play on words, implying both shortness (relative to the "titanic" Ehlnofey), and intelligence. Both of these possibilities introduce what I view as possible factual inconsistencies that are beyond the scope of this guide, but they are still possible.

The most referenced possibility is that "Dwarf" is simply mistranslation of Dwemer, and that it's proper use is in the "Deep Folk" sense, but that Dwe was mistranslated by humans into "Short". Thus "Short Folk", or Dwarves.

Source- TES: Morrowind Teasers, Loremaster Posts, Pocket Guide to the Empire