ZOS, Its time to do something about housing.

Imperial_Voice

Shadow_Akula wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Oh goody. They decided to give us a "sale" on courtyard items. Thanks ZoS, we needed to buy more wildly overpriced ferns and statues to put in the small section of courtyard we dont wall off to fill our house.

Yeah...I saw that in the Showcase. Courtyard items are easily some of the most expensive items in the store and require homes with reasonably-sized outdoor areas.

As to the livestream response, if they will not spend any resources to increase the item limits, then they ABSOLUTELY NEED TO STOP churning out ginormous homes. Not to spend any resources to improve item limits while continuing to make the majority of new homes too large to decorate within their limitations, is insulting and (while I try to refrain from attributing this to ZOS) greedy. Flipping assets to create way too large homes so they can charge 12k+ crowns is clearly a cash grab (and I try to refrain from using that phrase, too).

Instead of continuing to offer giant monstrosities, ZOS please offer more medium AND SMALL homes. I would be willing to spend crowns on them. I'm thinking seriously about purchasing Frostvault Chasm, for example, since it's a medium home. For someone who builds, however, I can see the item limit being too small on that one, but since I'll really only be decorating the living space, that limit is fine for me. And, if the price is in line with medium homes, then I may buy it.

Also, provide us more reasons to use our homes. If you can figure out a way to offer us a writ NPC or writ board for our homes, I'm sure many of us would buy them. Also, provide us with a guild NPC so we can have guild bank/store access from our homes. Give us a sleep interaction for our beds. Offer nicer versions of the crafting stations (not just Clockwork). Offer more building blocks/structures. Offer more clutter items.

There are many other things that housing enthusiasts have asked for. If an item limit increase is definitely out, then please listen to all the other suggestions on how to improve housing.

If we can decorate our homes to our satisfaction within the item limits (i.e. more small/medium homes) and have more things to do in them (i.e. crafting writs/guild access), I think that housing can be salvaged. Please ZOS, make housing more than just flipping assets.

Since I was recently informed that if I cirticize housing devs further I could get a forum suspension I wont say anythinh about them. I will however say, that anyone who just so happened to charge $150 or more for an item in a game but intentionally left that item half finished because fixing it seems like work, is lazy and selling laziness as a public service is bad practice.

Yup that sounds like ZoS
“We refuse to listen to our customers but if you customers keep saying that we don’t listen we will suspend your forum accounts”
They think threatening forum suspensions and bans will make us go away and drop these issues 🙄

Yeah ive never been threatened by a game company before but it was exactly as unintimidating as I imagined.

Imperial_Voice

Aurelle1 wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

The developers themselves are the ones who said they dont want to do anything because it would be too much effort. The developers are also the ones who chose to be responsible for communicating with the player base.


TIL: Calling out ZoS devs for doing a bad job can get you in trouble. Got a nice sternly worded letter asking me to not criticize them. Neat.

I am astonished that the vast majority of posters on this forum haven't received similar letters by this time.

Honestly ive seen people threaten their lives over nerfs. I think I just struck a nerve with housing devs.

Shadow_Akula

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Shadow_Akula wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Oh goody. They decided to give us a "sale" on courtyard items. Thanks ZoS, we needed to buy more wildly overpriced ferns and statues to put in the small section of courtyard we dont wall off to fill our house.

Yeah...I saw that in the Showcase. Courtyard items are easily some of the most expensive items in the store and require homes with reasonably-sized outdoor areas.

As to the livestream response, if they will not spend any resources to increase the item limits, then they ABSOLUTELY NEED TO STOP churning out ginormous homes. Not to spend any resources to improve item limits while continuing to make the majority of new homes too large to decorate within their limitations, is insulting and (while I try to refrain from attributing this to ZOS) greedy. Flipping assets to create way too large homes so they can charge 12k+ crowns is clearly a cash grab (and I try to refrain from using that phrase, too).

Instead of continuing to offer giant monstrosities, ZOS please offer more medium AND SMALL homes. I would be willing to spend crowns on them. I'm thinking seriously about purchasing Frostvault Chasm, for example, since it's a medium home. For someone who builds, however, I can see the item limit being too small on that one, but since I'll really only be decorating the living space, that limit is fine for me. And, if the price is in line with medium homes, then I may buy it.

Also, provide us more reasons to use our homes. If you can figure out a way to offer us a writ NPC or writ board for our homes, I'm sure many of us would buy them. Also, provide us with a guild NPC so we can have guild bank/store access from our homes. Give us a sleep interaction for our beds. Offer nicer versions of the crafting stations (not just Clockwork). Offer more building blocks/structures. Offer more clutter items.

There are many other things that housing enthusiasts have asked for. If an item limit increase is definitely out, then please listen to all the other suggestions on how to improve housing.

If we can decorate our homes to our satisfaction within the item limits (i.e. more small/medium homes) and have more things to do in them (i.e. crafting writs/guild access), I think that housing can be salvaged. Please ZOS, make housing more than just flipping assets.

Since I was recently informed that if I cirticize housing devs further I could get a forum suspension I wont say anythinh about them. I will however say, that anyone who just so happened to charge $150 or more for an item in a game but intentionally left that item half finished because fixing it seems like work, is lazy and selling laziness as a public service is bad practice.

Yup that sounds like ZoS
“We refuse to listen to our customers but if you customers keep saying that we don’t listen we will suspend your forum accounts”
They think threatening forum suspensions and bans will make us go away and drop these issues 🙄

Yeah ive never been threatened by a game company before but it was exactly as unintimidating as I imagined.

Lol

If they want us to stop complaining about them, all they have to do is listen to us and just give us the minimum of actual dev responses in the housing sub-forum.

But apparently it’s too difficult for them to use a mouse to get to the sub-forum and then to press keys on a keyboard to post in a thread. But clicking on a profile to send a “knock it off” threat/message is easy for them to do

Just shows ZoS’ true colours I guess.

S.A.96

Imperial_Voice

Shadow_Akula wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Shadow_Akula wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Oh goody. They decided to give us a "sale" on courtyard items. Thanks ZoS, we needed to buy more wildly overpriced ferns and statues to put in the small section of courtyard we dont wall off to fill our house.

Yeah...I saw that in the Showcase. Courtyard items are easily some of the most expensive items in the store and require homes with reasonably-sized outdoor areas.

As to the livestream response, if they will not spend any resources to increase the item limits, then they ABSOLUTELY NEED TO STOP churning out ginormous homes. Not to spend any resources to improve item limits while continuing to make the majority of new homes too large to decorate within their limitations, is insulting and (while I try to refrain from attributing this to ZOS) greedy. Flipping assets to create way too large homes so they can charge 12k+ crowns is clearly a cash grab (and I try to refrain from using that phrase, too).

Instead of continuing to offer giant monstrosities, ZOS please offer more medium AND SMALL homes. I would be willing to spend crowns on them. I'm thinking seriously about purchasing Frostvault Chasm, for example, since it's a medium home. For someone who builds, however, I can see the item limit being too small on that one, but since I'll really only be decorating the living space, that limit is fine for me. And, if the price is in line with medium homes, then I may buy it.

Also, provide us more reasons to use our homes. If you can figure out a way to offer us a writ NPC or writ board for our homes, I'm sure many of us would buy them. Also, provide us with a guild NPC so we can have guild bank/store access from our homes. Give us a sleep interaction for our beds. Offer nicer versions of the crafting stations (not just Clockwork). Offer more building blocks/structures. Offer more clutter items.

There are many other things that housing enthusiasts have asked for. If an item limit increase is definitely out, then please listen to all the other suggestions on how to improve housing.

If we can decorate our homes to our satisfaction within the item limits (i.e. more small/medium homes) and have more things to do in them (i.e. crafting writs/guild access), I think that housing can be salvaged. Please ZOS, make housing more than just flipping assets.

Since I was recently informed that if I cirticize housing devs further I could get a forum suspension I wont say anythinh about them. I will however say, that anyone who just so happened to charge $150 or more for an item in a game but intentionally left that item half finished because fixing it seems like work, is lazy and selling laziness as a public service is bad practice.

Yup that sounds like ZoS
“We refuse to listen to our customers but if you customers keep saying that we don’t listen we will suspend your forum accounts”
They think threatening forum suspensions and bans will make us go away and drop these issues 🙄

Yeah ive never been threatened by a game company before but it was exactly as unintimidating as I imagined.

Lol

If they want us to stop complaining about them, all they have to do is listen to us and just give us the minimum of actual dev responses in the housing sub-forum.

But apparently it’s too difficult for them to use a mouse to get to the sub-forum and then to press keys on a keyboard to post in a thread. But clicking on a profile to send a “knock it off” threat/message is easy for them to do

Just shows ZoS’ true colours I guess.

S.A.9

Yes the first communication ive ever gotten over housing was "'Stop saying the devs are doing a bad job'

Granted the message was overall polite, it was still a thinly veiled threat to ban me if I kept criticizing the dev team though.

Aurie

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Yes the first communication ive ever gotten over housing was "'Stop saying the devs are doing a bad job'

Granted the message was overall polite, it was still a thinly veiled threat to ban me if I kept criticizing the dev team though.

It's rather sad that ZOS prefer to hide behind this kind of private message to individuals, rather than coming out into the open and actually talking to us.

From what I've seen of your posts, there is nothing to offend and everything you have said is true. Many of us have expressed similar views over the years. They just don't like to hear it.

Interestingly, our combat fraternity (as would be expected!) is generally far more militant than our rather more peaceful housing community, and they are often way more outspokenly critical about the devs than we are. However, it appears to be us who are targeted by the forum police and told not to make waves. Maybe ZOS believe that we are more likely to cave in under pressure. But maybe they are also discovering that mice can roar.

Imperial_Voice

Aurelle1 wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Yes the first communication ive ever gotten over housing was "'Stop saying the devs are doing a bad job'

Granted the message was overall polite, it was still a thinly veiled threat to ban me if I kept criticizing the dev team though.

It's rather sad that ZOS prefer to hide behind this kind of private message to individuals, rather than coming out into the open and actually talking to us.

From what I've seen of your posts, there is nothing to offend and everything you have said is true. Many of us have expressed similar views over the years. They just don't like to hear it.

Interestingly, our combat fraternity (as would be expected!) is generally far more militant than our rather more peaceful housing community, and they are often way more outspokenly critical about the devs than we are. However, it appears to be us who are targeted by the forum police and told not to make waves. Maybe ZOS believe that we are more likely to cave in under pressure. But maybe they are also discovering that mice can roar.

The impression Im getting is that they want to ignore housing and hope people simply give up, but if someone gets too critical of them theyll simply ban you. Quietly and privately. Of course thats their right, these are their forums and we have to obey whatever rules they give us, but its our right to not give them another penny for houses or furniture.

Shadow_Akula

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Yes the first communication ive ever gotten over housing was "'Stop saying the devs are doing a bad job'

Granted the message was overall polite, it was still a thinly veiled threat to ban me if I kept criticizing the dev team though.

It's rather sad that ZOS prefer to hide behind this kind of private message to individuals, rather than coming out into the open and actually talking to us.

From what I've seen of your posts, there is nothing to offend and everything you have said is true. Many of us have expressed similar views over the years. They just don't like to hear it.

Interestingly, our combat fraternity (as would be expected!) is generally far more militant than our rather more peaceful housing community, and they are often way more outspokenly critical about the devs than we are. However, it appears to be us who are targeted by the forum police and told not to make waves. Maybe ZOS believe that we are more likely to cave in under pressure. But maybe they are also discovering that mice can roar.

The impression Im getting is that they want to ignore housing and hope people simply give up, but if someone gets too critical of them theyll simply ban you. Quietly and privately. Of course thats their right, these are their forums and we have to obey whatever rules they give us, but its our right to not give them another penny for houses or furniture.

Too right 😐 ain’t buying another house or furnishing with crowns anymore until they start listening to us.

S.A.96

Valagash

The only way they will listen is if you get a campaign ingame with all players. Not in the offical forum (80% of player don´t look or write in the offical forum)

And the topic: don t buy the new big crown store houses. because you don´t buy a house, you buy frustration. I for myself stopped after Xanmeer. Haven´t bought the actual estate and won´t buy the frost house because of the fact it s just frustration.
But you ll never get all players involved, so as long as player buy them, there will never any change. Why should they? Low effort = big money...!

What they don´t understand, they could make so much more money if they would listen to the community. But they like to think for their auctioneer, short term not long term.

Maybe they start reading and listening if they stop earning money with new shiny homes.

It was ok, to hear last friday that they can´t increase the limit because of poor performance on consol, but there was no words about: limited interactable furniture, separate rooms/garden in instances with loading screen, medium sized homes for gold, furniture bag/dailies/writs. And this is frustrating too, because I really love housing in this game and invest a lot of real money, but have no idea if they will ever change something in the system.
It would be ok for me if I know, "hey guys, we are working on a new way how limit works to improve and expand but it takes xy time", that would absolute fine for me. I would buy crown exclusives again and all will be good. But as long the silence goes on, as long no money for ZOS (from me).

Anotherone773

Disclaimer: I only skimmed the posts besides the OP.

I just picked up the Hideaway. The furnishing count is 135 or something like that before i even place one piece. Nearly 20% of the home is filled to start and it looks naked. I could use most to all of the rest of my slots just doing the interior.

I havent even started to fill my other two large homes: the psijic manor and the grotto yet. 700 items isnt enough to do even the inside of the manor or get off the boat onto the dock.

The reason being consoles cant handle it. This had led to a bit of animosity by pc players towards console players at times. As we, as a group, do not feel we should be limited by console players financial choices in life. IE: I dont game on a $2000 PC so i can play the same quality of game as an Xbox can handle. I am paying for a significantly better experience and i expect one.

However, this "hostility" is sometimes directed at the wrong target. The problem isnt console players. They expect a playable game on their platform. The problem here is Zenimax greed. Rather than change the patches so that computers can take advantage of their tech, we are forced to the lowest common denominator. Why? Greed. It cost more money if they dont streamline the game and make it as identical as possible across all platforms. This means despite playing on a PC for the obvious reasons, PC players are left playing like its 2013.

An argument that Zenimax might argue here is that some PC players play on an older pc and wont be able to handle more. Well i am still playing on a PC built in 2009 that cost $1000( its replacement currently in a box waiting for me to set it up) and my wife plays on a $700 laptop from 2015. We are doing ok on the game. Not getting any UHD with theatre quality sound and 10 second load times and 100 FPS...but its decently playable.

So this argument isnt about outdated hardware at all. It is about Zenimax's greed. Rather than provide a quality product to all of their customers, they want to get the most money out of as many people as they can. So they are going to keep selling you $150 house that cant be properly furnished and no longer offer smaller gold houses because those make no money.

Its sad they took housing which was a good feature and basically just ruined it by trying to turn it into an extra ATM machine. " Buy our expansion for $40...oh you like housing? Buy this house in the expansion also. Its on sale for $100!" Then its nothing but a building already in game that has been stripped of furnishings, not even something unique, and its to huge to fill anyway.

I dont mind paying for extras but i want to feel like im getting my moneys worth and right now with housing i dont feel that way at all.

Imperial_Voice

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Disclaimer: I only skimmed the posts besides the OP.

I just picked up the Hideaway. The furnishing count is 135 or something like that before i even place one piece. Nearly 20% of the home is filled to start and it looks naked. I could use most to all of the rest of my slots just doing the interior.

I havent even started to fill my other two large homes: the psijic manor and the grotto yet. 700 items isnt enough to do even the inside of the manor or get off the boat onto the dock.

The reason being consoles cant handle it. This had led to a bit of animosity by pc players towards console players at times. As we, as a group, do not feel we should be limited by console players financial choices in life. IE: I dont game on a $2000 PC so i can play the same quality of game as an Xbox can handle. I am paying for a significantly better experience and i expect one.

However, this "hostility" is sometimes directed at the wrong target. The problem isnt console players. They expect a playable game on their platform. The problem here is Zenimax greed. Rather than change the patches so that computers can take advantage of their tech, we are forced to the lowest common denominator. Why? Greed. It cost more money if they dont streamline the game and make it as identical as possible across all platforms. This means despite playing on a PC for the obvious reasons, PC players are left playing like its 2013.

An argument that Zenimax might argue here is that some PC players play on an older pc and wont be able to handle more. Well i am still playing on a PC built in 2009 that cost $1000( its replacement currently in a box waiting for me to set it up) and my wife plays on a $700 laptop from 2015. We are doing ok on the game. Not getting any UHD with theatre quality sound and 10 second load times and 100 FPS...but its decently playable.

So this argument isnt about outdated hardware at all. It is about Zenimax's greed. Rather than provide a quality product to all of their customers, they want to get the most money out of as many people as they can. So they are going to keep selling you $150 house that cant be properly furnished and no longer offer smaller gold houses because those make no money.

Its sad they took housing which was a good feature and basically just ruined it by trying to turn it into an extra ATM machine. " Buy our expansion for $40...oh you like housing? Buy this house in the expansion also. Its on sale for $100!" Then its nothing but a building already in game that has been stripped of furnishings, not even something unique, and its to huge to fill anyway.

I dont mind paying for extras but i want to feel like im getting my moneys worth and right now with housing i dont feel that way at all.

I know you said you skimmed most of the thread beyond the original post but much of what you say here is what the rest of us have said. Consoles may be the original cause for the limits but now only the developers are at fault. There have been many many suggestions over the years of ways to bypass the limitation or to even provide PC players a different option but ZoS wont take the time or put in the effort. They would rather continue to charge us extraordinarily large sums of money for some asset flips in a semi-functional system. Its laziness and greed that have ruined housing in this game and ZoS has nobody to blame but themselves at this point.

Tigerseye

Wildberryjack wrote: »

I remember them saying they were working on increasing the item cap but that load was the issue. Ok, then please stop making all these HUGE houses and give us some smaller ones that don't look mostly empty even when at the cap. With smaller houses it isn't nearly as bad as the space looks more filled. But with these huge houses we end up with massive areas that hardly have anything in them at all.

Yes, although, for me, it's not so much the size of the plot, but the dimensions of the house(s) and (to a slightly lesser extent) the garden(s)/terraces on it.

You could have a large island, but with a single large, but not huge, house on it, with a moderately sized garden/terrace.

A house with similar interior dimensions to the Alinor Townhouse, only with an added basement/roof terrace, for example.

If the island was already pretty looking (and functional), when purchased, people could then just concentrate mainly on decorating the interior of the house and the moderately sized garden/terrace and leave the island to run wild.

Then they would probably be OK with the 700 slots.

My main issues, so far, with the Grand Topal island are that:

a) One of the huts (the largest, enclosed one) has no shutters on the inside; even though there are shuttered windows on the outside.

So, once inside, you can't even pretend it has windows that you are (for some inexplicable reason) leaving permanently shut.

It just feels like an indoor arena in there and it is inconsistent with the outside.

You can't even craft/buy closed shutters, in the correct style, to make it look more like it should.

...not that you should have to.

b) Almost unbelievably, there are no Argonian/Murkmire style, half height fences available.

You need short fence pieces, like the fences that already exist around the exterior of the two open, octagonal huts.

I've tried using the Murkmire marshwood ramps, both on their sides and vertically; but, they're too heavy-looking and make the place look like a prisoner of war camp.

I will probably just rip them all out, again, to make more furnishing slots available.

Even though they took hours to install and even if it does mean the place is a total death trap, again, lol.

I find it amazing that they sold an Argonian island, in the first place, without basic things like these being available (and/or, ideally, already installed!) and then released Murkmire and still didn't make these available.

I don't know how (or why) people try to build in this game.

"You can't make bricks without straw." and even if you can, you can't then decorate, as you have used all your slots on the bricks...

anadandy

Wildberryjack wrote: »

I remember them saying they were working on increasing the item cap but that load was the issue. Ok, then please stop making all these HUGE houses and give us some smaller ones that don't look mostly empty even when at the cap. With smaller houses it isn't nearly as bad as the space looks more filled. But with these huge houses we end up with massive areas that hardly have anything in them at all.

Classic example of this is the Aldmeri Grotto. Housing community asked for ages for a ship home - and I'll take the risk and say most of us wanted a simple ship, maybe a little bit of beach/dock. When they finally did give us a ship home - they tacked on an enormous beach, enormous ruins, enormous cove, etc. etc. It's gorgeous, don't get me wrong - but ridiculous space overkill.

And why? So they could charge 15,000 crowns for it instead of 5,000/gold option like a medium home.

Imperial_Voice

anadandy wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

I remember them saying they were working on increasing the item cap but that load was the issue. Ok, then please stop making all these HUGE houses and give us some smaller ones that don't look mostly empty even when at the cap. With smaller houses it isn't nearly as bad as the space looks more filled. But with these huge houses we end up with massive areas that hardly have anything in them at all.

Classic example of this is the Aldmeri Grotto. Housing community asked for ages for a ship home - and I'll take the risk and say most of us wanted a simple ship, maybe a little bit of beach/dock. When they finally did give us a ship home - they tacked on an enormous beach, enormous ruins, enormous cove, etc. etc. It's gorgeous, don't get me wrong - but ridiculous space overkill.

And why? So they could charge 15,000 crowns for it instead of 5,000/gold option like a medium home.

The Aldmeri Grotto is one of the worst offenses in my opinion. It is ridiculously oversized and underfilled. Its like a quarter the size of the Bleakrock zone and comes 2/5ths pre filled with trees and rocks that eat your item limit down.

Aelorin

For me the item limit is not the first problem.

Housing still is an expensive hobby to begin with. Lots of materials to create an item or lots of crowns to spent.

Secondly and most important: Housing needs more functionality!!!!!!


Why can't we have waiters, cooks, spouses etc. or even bankers, traders, at our home. More interactive furniture. etc; etc.

anadandy

Aelorin wrote: »

Why can't we have waiters, cooks, spouses etc. or even bankers, traders, at our home. More interactive furniture. etc; etc.

My kingdom for a canopy bed I can sleep on and seated emotes!

Imperial_Voice

Aelorin wrote: »

For me the item limit is not the first problem.

Housing still is an expensive hobby to begin with. Lots of materials to create an item or lots of crowns to spent.

Secondly and most important: Housing needs more functionality!!!!!!


Why can't we have waiters, cooks, spouses etc. or even bankers, traders, at our home. More interactive furniture. etc; etc.

While I agree those things are all nice to have and would be amazing additions, until they deal with item limits they would do nothing more than make it even more difficult to create a satisfying house. ZoS need to get to work and stop selling us lazy asset flips

Bootstomp

Speaking of functionality, for me, I'd be happy if they just eliminated the wayshrine cost when porting out of your house. How much effort would that take? The time to change zones in this game are so tedious and so many of the nicer houses are so far from crafting/city hubs. I'd love to be able to go (freely) from my home directly to the Vivec City shrine.

And how about a 30 or 60 minute buff that extends your food or drink when visiting one of your homes? Just some *small* functional reason for using housing?

I joined ESO a while ago in part because I enjoyed housing in the last MMO I was active in. Not only did we have dedicated storage chests for housing items we weren't currently using, but you could set up portals between homes. Being able to link up multiple small/medium homes might go a (small) way to getting past the furnishing limit.

BTW, I (personally) have *zero* interest in buying homes and furnishings from the crown store. The only furnishings I care to have are ones I craft or buy from achievement vendors. I *am* however an ESO+ subscriber, which is why I found the outright dismissal of a furnishing bag somewhat irksome.

Tigerseye

OK, so I have been thinking about this and I suspect that the reason they don't do much with housing, is because there doesn't seem to be enough people interested in it.

So, they prefer to monetise the heck out of it, double/triple/quadruple dip and nickel and dime the, relatively few, people who do still bother with it.

But, surely, this is at least partly a chicken and egg situation?

Of course, if you overcharge for something, don't correct faults, don't provide new/interesting aspects to it, don't implement necessary and/or asked for additions and so on, most people won't be interested in it.

You can't then assume that people just aren't interested in housing, in general, when it is just as likely (if not more likely) that many of them are just sick of it and/or can't afford it and/or can't justify the expense of it, in its current state.

ZoS/Zenimax, or whoever they are, seem to have this attitude, in general; not just with housing.

They leave the EU server in a mess, forever, with people struggling to log-on and not crash/not be kicked off it and suffering through endless loading screens (presumably, with the idea that it's not worth upgrading?) and then have the temerity to start a five week event, where even more people try to squeeze onto an already over-full server.

They feel not enough people play Warden and/or not enough people bought the recoloured bear (I have it, but yawn), so this somehow justifies them not introducing any new (far more exciting) pets for Warden

When virtually every other MMO on the planet:

a) Doesn't charge extra for a Hunter/Ranger/Warden class.

b) Already lets you use (and often, collect/tame) multiple pets, free and as standard, right from the start.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that more people would play it, if it was better and/or included in the price.

...and by "better", I just mean as good as the equivalent is in other, similar, games.

These kind of standard features - and I include most housing/furnishing in this - are supposed to ATTRACT people to your game.

You are supposed to provide them for free, as a loss leader, so that more people come to your game and then spend money on various other things.

...and/or you are supposed to charge everyone a sub - not expect a very few people to totally carry absolutely everyone else on the planet, forever.

...and if you do resort to the latter, at least have the decency to:

a) Make sure the hardware is adequate, so (at least) those paying people aren't waiting in a log-in queue, to finally be greeted with endless loading screens and lagging and crashing all day.

b) Make sure the features people are paying extra for (like Warden and housing) seem worth the money and are kept up-to-date and well catered for.

At the moment, the whole thing reminds me of Rollercoaster Tycoon.

The amount of people visiting the park goes down, so instead of adding new rides and attractions (and/or dropping their prices), they refuse to add any more new attractions and just sit there hoping the whales will keep them afloat, despite all their (normally) perfectly reasonable requests being ignored/refused.

Jayne_Doe

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Disclaimer: I only skimmed the posts besides the OP.

I just picked up the Hideaway. The furnishing count is 135 or something like that before i even place one piece. Nearly 20% of the home is filled to start and it looks naked. I could use most to all of the rest of my slots just doing the interior.

I havent even started to fill my other two large homes: the psijic manor and the grotto yet. 700 items isnt enough to do even the inside of the manor or get off the boat onto the dock.

The reason being consoles cant handle it. This had led to a bit of animosity by pc players towards console players at times. As we, as a group, do not feel we should be limited by console players financial choices in life. IE: I dont game on a $2000 PC so i can play the same quality of game as an Xbox can handle. I am paying for a significantly better experience and i expect one.

However, this "hostility" is sometimes directed at the wrong target. The problem isnt console players. They expect a playable game on their platform. The problem here is Zenimax greed. Rather than change the patches so that computers can take advantage of their tech, we are forced to the lowest common denominator. Why? Greed. It cost more money if they dont streamline the game and make it as identical as possible across all platforms. This means despite playing on a PC for the obvious reasons, PC players are left playing like its 2013.

An argument that Zenimax might argue here is that some PC players play on an older pc and wont be able to handle more. Well i am still playing on a PC built in 2009 that cost $1000( its replacement currently in a box waiting for me to set it up) and my wife plays on a $700 laptop from 2015. We are doing ok on the game. Not getting any UHD with theatre quality sound and 10 second load times and 100 FPS...but its decently playable.

So this argument isnt about outdated hardware at all. It is about Zenimax's greed. Rather than provide a quality product to all of their customers, they want to get the most money out of as many people as they can. So they are going to keep selling you $150 house that cant be properly furnished and no longer offer smaller gold houses because those make no money.

Its sad they took housing which was a good feature and basically just ruined it by trying to turn it into an extra ATM machine. " Buy our expansion for $40...oh you like housing? Buy this house in the expansion also. Its on sale for $100!" Then its nothing but a building already in game that has been stripped of furnishings, not even something unique, and its to huge to fill anyway.

I dont mind paying for extras but i want to feel like im getting my moneys worth and right now with housing i dont feel that way at all.

I know you said you skimmed most of the thread beyond the original post but much of what you say here is what the rest of us have said. Consoles may be the original cause for the limits but now only the developers are at fault. There have been many many suggestions over the years of ways to bypass the limitation or to even provide PC players a different option but ZoS wont take the time or put in the effort. They would rather continue to charge us extraordinarily large sums of money for some asset flips in a semi-functional system. Its laziness and greed that have ruined housing in this game and ZoS has nobody to blame but themselves at this point.

Do you think they're unwilling to put in the effort because it would be too much work solely for consoles? If it would be much less work (or perhaps no work) to increase limits on PC, then I think they should do it. The console experience is already different, since we don't have access to add-ons. And, we don't have all the ultra high graphics settings that PC players have access to. Again, it just seems like they're using consoles as an excuse not to do anything. I just don't see what reason there is to keeping the platforms equal in this regard, when inequalities exist elsewhere.

I'm sure there are console players out there who would feel differently, but I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect consoles to compete on equal footing with the ever-evolving/improving platform that is PC. But, it's possible there is some sort of agreement with Sony & MS to keep the game experience largely the same in order for the game to come to their platforms.

Regardless, I think pretty much all of us are in agreement that if caps aren't going to increase, that future homes need to be smaller, there needs to be better building blocks/structures, more clutter items. Perhaps even instancing areas in the larger homes. I also think, and it seems others agree, that there needs to be more utility/functionality to homes if we are going to remain interested in housing.

But, it seems that ZOS is perfectly content to keep churning out homes and raking in the cash until the well finally dries up. It's their main revenue stream (outside of crates, I suppose), and if very little effort keeps bringing in the bucks, then they don't see any reason to do anything more.

Imperial_Voice

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Disclaimer: I only skimmed the posts besides the OP.

I just picked up the Hideaway. The furnishing count is 135 or something like that before i even place one piece. Nearly 20% of the home is filled to start and it looks naked. I could use most to all of the rest of my slots just doing the interior.

I havent even started to fill my other two large homes: the psijic manor and the grotto yet. 700 items isnt enough to do even the inside of the manor or get off the boat onto the dock.

The reason being consoles cant handle it. This had led to a bit of animosity by pc players towards console players at times. As we, as a group, do not feel we should be limited by console players financial choices in life. IE: I dont game on a $2000 PC so i can play the same quality of game as an Xbox can handle. I am paying for a significantly better experience and i expect one.

However, this "hostility" is sometimes directed at the wrong target. The problem isnt console players. They expect a playable game on their platform. The problem here is Zenimax greed. Rather than change the patches so that computers can take advantage of their tech, we are forced to the lowest common denominator. Why? Greed. It cost more money if they dont streamline the game and make it as identical as possible across all platforms. This means despite playing on a PC for the obvious reasons, PC players are left playing like its 2013.

An argument that Zenimax might argue here is that some PC players play on an older pc and wont be able to handle more. Well i am still playing on a PC built in 2009 that cost $1000( its replacement currently in a box waiting for me to set it up) and my wife plays on a $700 laptop from 2015. We are doing ok on the game. Not getting any UHD with theatre quality sound and 10 second load times and 100 FPS...but its decently playable.

So this argument isnt about outdated hardware at all. It is about Zenimax's greed. Rather than provide a quality product to all of their customers, they want to get the most money out of as many people as they can. So they are going to keep selling you $150 house that cant be properly furnished and no longer offer smaller gold houses because those make no money.

Its sad they took housing which was a good feature and basically just ruined it by trying to turn it into an extra ATM machine. " Buy our expansion for $40...oh you like housing? Buy this house in the expansion also. Its on sale for $100!" Then its nothing but a building already in game that has been stripped of furnishings, not even something unique, and its to huge to fill anyway.

I dont mind paying for extras but i want to feel like im getting my moneys worth and right now with housing i dont feel that way at all.

I know you said you skimmed most of the thread beyond the original post but much of what you say here is what the rest of us have said. Consoles may be the original cause for the limits but now only the developers are at fault. There have been many many suggestions over the years of ways to bypass the limitation or to even provide PC players a different option but ZoS wont take the time or put in the effort. They would rather continue to charge us extraordinarily large sums of money for some asset flips in a semi-functional system. Its laziness and greed that have ruined housing in this game and ZoS has nobody to blame but themselves at this point.

Do you think they're unwilling to put in the effort because it would be too much work solely for consoles? If it would be much less work (or perhaps no work) to increase limits on PC, then I think they should do it. The console experience is already different, since we don't have access to add-ons. And, we don't have all the ultra high graphics settings that PC players have access to. Again, it just seems like they're using consoles as an excuse not to do anything. I just don't see what reason there is to keeping the platforms equal in this regard, when inequalities exist elsewhere.

I'm sure there are console players out there who would feel differently, but I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect consoles to compete on equal footing with the ever-evolving/improving platform that is PC. But, it's possible there is some sort of agreement with Sony & MS to keep the game experience largely the same in order for the game to come to their platforms.

Regardless, I think pretty much all of us are in agreement that if caps aren't going to increase, that future homes need to be smaller, there needs to be better building blocks/structures, more clutter items. Perhaps even instancing areas in the larger homes. I also think, and it seems others agree, that there needs to be more utility/functionality to homes if we are going to remain interested in housing.

But, it seems that ZOS is perfectly content to keep churning out homes and raking in the cash until the well finally dries up. It's their main revenue stream (outside of crates, I suppose), and if very little effort keeps bringing in the bucks, then they don't see any reason to do anything more.

The entire thing reeks of lies, laziness, and greed.

Anotherone773

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Disclaimer: I only skimmed the posts besides the OP.

I just picked up the Hideaway. The furnishing count is 135 or something like that before i even place one piece. Nearly 20% of the home is filled to start and it looks naked. I could use most to all of the rest of my slots just doing the interior.

I havent even started to fill my other two large homes: the psijic manor and the grotto yet. 700 items isnt enough to do even the inside of the manor or get off the boat onto the dock.

The reason being consoles cant handle it. This had led to a bit of animosity by pc players towards console players at times. As we, as a group, do not feel we should be limited by console players financial choices in life. IE: I dont game on a $2000 PC so i can play the same quality of game as an Xbox can handle. I am paying for a significantly better experience and i expect one.

However, this "hostility" is sometimes directed at the wrong target. The problem isnt console players. They expect a playable game on their platform. The problem here is Zenimax greed. Rather than change the patches so that computers can take advantage of their tech, we are forced to the lowest common denominator. Why? Greed. It cost more money if they dont streamline the game and make it as identical as possible across all platforms. This means despite playing on a PC for the obvious reasons, PC players are left playing like its 2013.

An argument that Zenimax might argue here is that some PC players play on an older pc and wont be able to handle more. Well i am still playing on a PC built in 2009 that cost $1000( its replacement currently in a box waiting for me to set it up) and my wife plays on a $700 laptop from 2015. We are doing ok on the game. Not getting any UHD with theatre quality sound and 10 second load times and 100 FPS...but its decently playable.

So this argument isnt about outdated hardware at all. It is about Zenimax's greed. Rather than provide a quality product to all of their customers, they want to get the most money out of as many people as they can. So they are going to keep selling you $150 house that cant be properly furnished and no longer offer smaller gold houses because those make no money.

Its sad they took housing which was a good feature and basically just ruined it by trying to turn it into an extra ATM machine. " Buy our expansion for $40...oh you like housing? Buy this house in the expansion also. Its on sale for $100!" Then its nothing but a building already in game that has been stripped of furnishings, not even something unique, and its to huge to fill anyway.

I dont mind paying for extras but i want to feel like im getting my moneys worth and right now with housing i dont feel that way at all.

I know you said you skimmed most of the thread beyond the original post but much of what you say here is what the rest of us have said. Consoles may be the original cause for the limits but now only the developers are at fault. There have been many many suggestions over the years of ways to bypass the limitation or to even provide PC players a different option but ZoS wont take the time or put in the effort. They would rather continue to charge us extraordinarily large sums of money for some asset flips in a semi-functional system. Its laziness and greed that have ruined housing in this game and ZoS has nobody to blame but themselves at this point.

Do you think they're unwilling to put in the effort because it would be too much work solely for consoles? If it would be much less work (or perhaps no work) to increase limits on PC, then I think they should do it. The console experience is already different, since we don't have access to add-ons. And, we don't have all the ultra high graphics settings that PC players have access to. Again, it just seems like they're using consoles as an excuse not to do anything. I just don't see what reason there is to keeping the platforms equal in this regard, when inequalities exist elsewhere.

I'm sure there are console players out there who would feel differently, but I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect consoles to compete on equal footing with the ever-evolving/improving platform that is PC. But, it's possible there is some sort of agreement with Sony & MS to keep the game experience largely the same in order for the game to come to their platforms.

Regardless, I think pretty much all of us are in agreement that if caps aren't going to increase, that future homes need to be smaller, there needs to be better building blocks/structures, more clutter items. Perhaps even instancing areas in the larger homes. I also think, and it seems others agree, that there needs to be more utility/functionality to homes if we are going to remain interested in housing.

But, it seems that ZOS is perfectly content to keep churning out homes and raking in the cash until the well finally dries up. It's their main revenue stream (outside of crates, I suppose), and if very little effort keeps bringing in the bucks, then they don't see any reason to do anything more.

The entire thing reeks of lies, laziness, and greed.

This pretty much sums it up. But its more about cost( effort) vs profit increase. No one puts out quality anymore because its the right thing to do. No one believes in customer service because people before profits. Instead we weigh if the potential income gain is worth the cost( labor) of us doing this VS something else we could spend that cost( labor) on.

The answer is no. It is more profitable to keep churning out houses that get increasingly bigger and more expensive than it is to make housing better. Zenimax is very much about a fast nickle. I mean a lawyer who has probably never played a game in their life runs the company after what i would call a hostile takeover from the guy that pretty much invented TES and who now teaches MIT or something since he got shoved out of his own company.

Saccarius

Hey ZoS,

I used to be a long time subscriber and I"ve bought way too many Crowns in the past but as you can see I've left the game for some time now.

Elsweyr was the perfect opportunity to finally address player complaints that have persisted for years and this one is a doozie. Yet you are doing nothing. You are not even acknowledging it.

I cannot give money to a company that preys on its fans desire to to access all the games content by overcharging for cosmetic items, time gating them to scare people into buying for fear of missing out and then to not even fix or address the item limit in housing is disgusting.

You know another fix that would cost you little and please so many. Hide shoulders in outfit designer but noooo. It can't be done because then you can't sell exclusive motifs with unobtrusive shoulders in the Crown store...

The patch notes are a joke. This is a major paid expansion and there and a chance to overhaul many systems at one but you just insist on being greedy.

I will not be buying it.

Maybe next year, you'll realise that not every player cares about PVP and dungeons. What am I saying? Of course you know that which is why that part is free and constantly updated but anything to do with cosmetics cost an arm and a leg and is designed to extract as much money from customers as possible.

Well I'm not playing that game anymore as you can see by my account.

It's such a shame.

Imperial_Voice

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Are any of you listening yet or are you all still trying to pretend this is fine?

Shadow_Akula

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Are any of you listening yet or are you all still trying to pretend this is fine?

They’re still too busy ignoring this section of the forums, pretending we don’t exist.

bayushi2005

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Are any of you listening yet or are you all still trying to pretend this is fine?

Most probably still getting their voice back after looking at my cake house in last ESO live

Wished it could bring some changes, though.

Imperial_Voice

Shadow_Akula wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Are any of you listening yet or are you all still trying to pretend this is fine?

They’re still too busy ignoring this section of the forums, pretending we don’t exist.

When was the last time either of them even spoke to anyone here?

Pinesy

I understand that we're all frustrated (i've posted my discontent quite a few times across the forums), but the tone of some folks here, it's easy to see why they avoid this forum

Imperial_Voice

Pinesy wrote: »

I understand that we're all frustrated (i've posted my discontent quite a few times across the forums), but the tone of some folks here, it's easy to see why they avoid this forum

Its sort of the other way around, folks here are getting agitated because ZoS refuses to do any actual work with housing and refuses to communicate. Theyre the cause of this, of course people got fed up after 3 years of being ignored and monetized to the tune $150 for some non-functional houses.

bayushi2005

Pinesy wrote: »

I understand that we're all frustrated (i've posted my discontent quite a few times across the forums), but the tone of some folks here, it's easy to see why they avoid this forum

I have an impression it works the opposite way. The tone changes as there is no response whatsoever.

I think we are quite desperate to see any reaction from ZOS. Even if it means a ban for being "naughty". ANY. REACTION.

IMHO, we are still quite civil here comparing to other sections of the forum.

Imperial_Voice

bayushi2005 wrote: »

Pinesy wrote: »

I understand that we're all frustrated (i've posted my discontent quite a few times across the forums), but the tone of some folks here, it's easy to see why they avoid this forum

I have an impression it works the opposite way. The tone changes as there is no response whatsoever.

I think we are quite desperate to see any reaction from ZOS. Even if it means a ban for being "naughty". ANY. REACTION.

IMHO, we are still quite civil here comparing to other sections of the forum.

I mean I did recieve a private message threatening me for being too critical of them. So I guess thats the best they can do for communication.