ZOS, Its time to do something about housing.

Emathides

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

matthiasmssb16_ESO wrote: »

I totaly agree with that!
The very least would be, to open those restrictions for the PC client, since the performance issues, that consoles may have, doesn`t necessary be the same with a PC. So why should PC players suffer for the poor Performance of old consoles, since they also got their own servers?

I actually hadnt thought of that. We have no cross platform and each patch is designed differently for each platform so why are PC players suffering because of the limitations of console?

Yep, agreed. PC players have the hardware to deal with housing at it's full potential, there is really no reason that we have to have the same limitations as console.

Sylvermynx

Emathides wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

matthiasmssb16_ESO wrote: »

I totaly agree with that!
The very least would be, to open those restrictions for the PC client, since the performance issues, that consoles may have, doesn`t necessary be the same with a PC. So why should PC players suffer for the poor Performance of old consoles, since they also got their own servers?

I actually hadnt thought of that. We have no cross platform and each patch is designed differently for each platform so why are PC players suffering because of the limitations of console?

Yep, agreed. PC players have the hardware to deal with housing at it's full potential, there is really no reason that we have to have the same limitations as console.

Unless MS and Sony have such limitations written into their agreements to let ZOS provide the game to their platforms. Which I think is probably likely.

Taleof2Cities

Zypheran wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is a Housing subforums, @Imperial_Voice ... located here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/housing

To be fair, that forum section gets utterly ignored. You can go back 40 pages before you see a dev post!
We are all blue in the face from having our comments and suggestions tumble away into the vast unresponding void that is housing forums!
At least the thread might get noticed here.

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is a Housing subforums, @Imperial_Voice ... located here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/housing

I am aware. Do think perhaps there's a reason I did not post there?

There are many threads that the devs look at but do not comment in ... in every single sub-forum. Why do you assume they don’t look at it?

Better yet, please share your data that shows the number of Housing forum clicks by the devs ... so we can confirm your assertion.

As someone who supported a separate Housing subforum back in 2017, I don’t want to wade through forum-goer impatience in General Discussion ... to get to the current topics that really are “General Discussion”.

Imperial_Voice

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is a Housing subforums, @Imperial_Voice ... located here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/housing

To be fair, that forum section gets utterly ignored. You can go back 40 pages before you see a dev post!
We are all blue in the face from having our comments and suggestions tumble away into the vast unresponding void that is housing forums!
At least the thread might get noticed here.

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is a Housing subforums, @Imperial_Voice ... located here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/housing

I am aware. Do think perhaps there's a reason I did not post there?

There are many threads that the devs look at but do not comment in ... in every single sub-forum. Why do you assume they don’t look at it?

Better yet, please share your data that shows the number of Housing forum clicks by the devs ... so we can confirm your assertion.

As someone who supported a separate Housing subforum back in 2017, I don’t want to wade through forum-goer impatience in General Discussion ... to get to the current topics that really are “General Discussion”.

Then dont. Ignore threads you dont care about instead commenting and behaving as a pedant. The fact that housing forums recieve by far the least amount of green comments is enough. So, kindly, go about your day.

Androconium

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is a Housing subforums, @Imperial_Voice ... located here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/housing

I am aware. Do think perhaps there's a reason I did not post there?

It will just get moved

Imperial_Voice

Androconium wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is a Housing subforums, @Imperial_Voice ... located here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/housing

I am aware. Do think perhaps there's a reason I did not post there?

It will just get moved

The last one got 5 pages and was never moved.

heaven13

linlilia wrote: »

I think they also need to make Attunable stations not count towards housing limits, every guild house that has the full set currently lacks tons of decorations because of it. If they did not count towards the limit it would open up some nice housing spots. Same with Mundus stones and target dummies.

Every guild leader hates attunable stations because there are so many and the houses just cant be decorated because of it and remember there will be 12 more with the chapter................

What they should have done with attunable stations is make them exactly like the regular ones except have an additional selection option for choosing which set you want to craft. So once you purchased it once, you'd purchase vouchers to add an additional attunement. Then you'd select "regular" or "Hundings" or "Seducer" and then from there select the item, racial style, trait, etc.

JykJax

heaven13 wrote: »

linlilia wrote: »

I think they also need to make Attunable stations not count towards housing limits, every guild house that has the full set currently lacks tons of decorations because of it. If they did not count towards the limit it would open up some nice housing spots. Same with Mundus stones and target dummies.

Every guild leader hates attunable stations because there are so many and the houses just cant be decorated because of it and remember there will be 12 more with the chapter................

What they should have done with attunable stations is make them exactly like the regular ones except have an additional selection option for choosing which set you want to craft. So once you purchased it once, you'd purchase vouchers to add an additional attunement. Then you'd select "regular" or "Hundings" or "Seducer" and then from there select the item, racial style, trait, etc.

I would like it a lot. if it should be feasible, it will lead to a lot of different styles for the Guild House Decoration

barney2525

I just want a bed I can click 'E' , and lay down

ApostateHobo

I think the easiest solution would be separating the interior and exterior of large homes, and giving each it's own item limit. That way everyone gets more furniture space not just pc.

themightyhades

linlilia wrote: »

I think they also need to make Attunable stations not count towards housing limits, every guild house that has the full set currently lacks tons of decorations because of it. If they did not count towards the limit it would open up some nice housing spots. Same with Mundus stones and target dummies.

Every guild leader hates attunable stations because there are so many and the houses just cant be decorated because of it and remember there will be 12 more with the chapter................

THIS.

As a relatively new GM, i sunk money into 'Hakkvilds High Hall' due to the space available outside for attunable crafting stations. However, between having to finish off the upstairs floor (to which part of the house is unaccessible without it) and stations, there is next to no room left for decorations etc. I'm NOT sorry i bought the house, i love it and we've held many guild events there. I just wish the limits were a little higher by maybe a couple hundred, which would be enough. The 24 person limit is ridiculous and i can see no justifiable reason for that to be in instanced housing. Although I must admit, I have no background in IT.

MornaBaine

I could not possibly agree with the OP of this thread more.

I have passed up at least TEN (by my last count) 24 player homes because of the player limits as well as finding the 700 item limit frustrating. I've passed on quite a few of the 12 player houses that I feel SHOULD actually be 24 player properties.

I love housing. I find decorating relaxing. It's fun to share the results with friends. I have the crowns to burn on it. It's a facet of the game I'm actually willing to pay for. ZO$ has lost probably a grand from me alone because they continue to ignore these issues. That's not much in the grand scheme of things but multiply that by the many other players who have also decided to not purchase rather than purchase in the hope that "some day" they will improve this mess and you can bet it starts to add up.

I believe it's a fact that PC servers suffer because of the limitations of consoles. I think it's greedy and inexcusable to try to force a PC game onto both platforms. It does a disservice to both the console and PC customers when you foist off a game that was never designed for console in the first place on unsuspecting customers. Of course ZO$ will never comment on that issue or admit that their choices have become extremely limited since they decided to go for the easy console money rather than continue to improve the game for PC, the platform it was originally designed for.

Regardless, it's not our fault bad choices were made. Don't feel sorry for ZO$. Hold them accountable and continue to insist that THEY be the ones to fix this mess and that they do it THIS YEAR instead of continuing to ignore it in the hopes that it will just "go away."

Zypheran

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is a Housing subforums, @Imperial_Voice ... located here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/housing

To be fair, that forum section gets utterly ignored. You can go back 40 pages before you see a dev post!
We are all blue in the face from having our comments and suggestions tumble away into the vast unresponding void that is housing forums!
At least the thread might get noticed here.

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is a Housing subforums, @Imperial_Voice ... located here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/housing

I am aware. Do think perhaps there's a reason I did not post there?

There are many threads that the devs look at but do not comment in ... in every single sub-forum. Why do you assume they don’t look at it?

Better yet, please share your data that shows the number of Housing forum clicks by the devs ... so we can confirm your assertion.

As someone who supported a separate Housing subforum back in 2017, I don’t want to wade through forum-goer impatience in General Discussion ... to get to the current topics that really are “General Discussion”.

@Taleof2Cities I'm sorry but I have to completely disagree with your approach on this one.
To date, I too have followed the protocol of putting housing issues into the housing subforum. I am aware that the devs say they 'lurk' on the forum without posting but frankly, given the time and money poured into this element of the game by so many people, I think that this is not good enough. I even made a thread on housing forum wayback, noting the comments made by housing dev Calum Lee on how the team do read our posts and at the time, I praised him for that comment and gave them the benefit of the doubt. But frankly, months continue to pass without any indication that these posts and suggestions are in fact being taken on board.
You ask "why do you assume they don't look at it?", well given that they continue to fail at every update to implement any of the suggestions that the community make, even the most optimistic of fans inevitably comes the conclusion that they are being ignored.
Take item limits as an example. OK, lets say you accept the issue of 700 being a technical limitation. There are have been many suggestions given to ameliorate the impact of these limits;
- introduce some houses with separate loading cells, each with own slot limit - And yet, when the new Lunar Champion house comes to PTS with a slam-dunk opportunity to do this.... nothing!
- bring out more one piece clutter items - this has been suggested over and over again to reduce the strain on low item limits. Yet every week in the luxury furnisher and every dlc that comes out you will see that this request is not given attention (maybe we get one filled bookshelf)
- If 700 items are the limit, then stop bringing out enormous manors that cant be filled with 700 slots - What was the dev response to the many many posts on this? - well, have a look at the new homes on PTS! How many missed opportunities with locked-up medium houses do you see around Elsweyr.
The fact is I could go on for paragraphs. You ask why I think the devs ignore the housing forum, well frankly I think the answer to that is self evident. They don't implement the ideas, suggestions and requests from there. Of course we cant produce data to show what the devs look at but frankly its irrelevant. Even if you could show data that shows that the devs read every thread, it still doesn't address the issue because if they are reading the posts then they are ignoring them because bottom line - the suggestions, requests etc. are not being implemented.
In truth, I'm annoyed that in the face of an implacable, unresponsive silence from the housing devs, when somebody decides to try another route and post on general forums, that your contribution is to say that this one post might clutter up your thread pages! If you want to reduce rubbish and irrelevant threads in general forums, I could point you to at least 50 others per day that could be gotten rid of before looking at this post!

Kuramas9tails

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

matthiasmssb16_ESO wrote: »

I totaly agree with that!
The very least would be, to open those restrictions for the PC client, since the performance issues, that consoles may have, doesn`t necessary be the same with a PC. So why should PC players suffer for the poor Performance of old consoles, since they also got their own servers?

I actually hadnt thought of that. We have no cross platform and each patch is designed differently for each platform so why are PC players suffering because of the limitations of console?

Think of it from ZOS's point of view. If they gave this to PC players, they will get blown up with console players arguing over and over for the same treatment. From a business POV, that is worth more headache than they are willing to give.

And things are different in patch notes simply because internal performances NEED to be different.

Jaraal

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Have you got a link about consoles being the reason for the item limit, as haven’t heard that before.

I keep digging for a link but I cant find one buried amongst literal hundreds of threads complainkng about the limit. I do know that the original reasoning had to do with processing power of consoles.

I can confirm that they did say this. I remember reading it.

Imperial_Voice

MornaBaine wrote: »

I could not possibly agree with the OP of this thread more.

I have passed up at least TEN (by my last count) 24 player homes because of the player limits as well as finding the 700 item limit frustrating. I've passed on quite a few of the 12 player houses that I feel SHOULD actually be 24 player properties.

I love housing. I find decorating relaxing. It's fun to share the results with friends. I have the crowns to burn on it. It's a facet of the game I'm actually willing to pay for. ZO$ has lost probably a grand from me alone because they continue to ignore these issues. That's not much in the grand scheme of things but multiply that by the many other players who have also decided to not purchase rather than purchase in the hope that "some day" they will improve this mess and you can bet it starts to add up.

I believe it's a fact that PC servers suffer because of the limitations of consoles. I think it's greedy and inexcusable to try to force a PC game onto both platforms. It does a disservice to both the console and PC customers when you foist off a game that was never designed for console in the first place on unsuspecting customers. Of course ZO$ will never comment on that issue or admit that their choices have become extremely limited since they decided to go for the easy console money rather than continue to improve the game for PC, the platform it was originally designed for.

Regardless, it's not our fault bad choices were made. Don't feel sorry for ZO$. Hold them accountable and continue to insist that THEY be the ones to fix this mess and that they do it THIS YEAR instead of continuing to ignore it in the hopes that it will just "go away."

Im.in a similar position. I have the money to waste so Ive got several notable homes but Ive passed on hakkvilds, topal, erstwhile sanctuary, tel galen, and will probably pass on the absolutely stunning Jodes Embrace simply because itd be a waste of my time to try and fill them properly. All in all ZoS has probably lost around $700 from me because the system is too limited for some of the houses they put out.

BackAndAngry

Housing is done although I hate to admit it. The dead sub forum is also a testament to the lack of interest by te players

Why I even have so many homes decorated I can only explain due to nothing else where to spend gold and mats

Imperial_Voice

BackAndAngry wrote: »

Housing is done although I hate to admit it. The dead sub forum is also a testament to the lack of interest by te players

Why I even have so many homes decorated I can only explain due to nothing else where to spend gold and mats

Housing forums are mostly showcases about houses that people have done. Honestly there arent enough features to warrant much conversation.

ghastley

Housing does need the introduction of more specialized buildings. The needs of a crafting hall, an RP "movie set", and a combat arena are all different, and just lumping them all into a "large" category misses the point. Trading off one server limit against another should be possible.

I'm hopeful that the pilot project of a house with unlockable wings, or remote extensions, turns into what we've asked for before: a home that has multiple times the furnishing limit, because it's actually more than one home linked together. Load screens between parts is a reasonable price to pay.

The only other point I haven't seen raised here is the need for a Guildhall to be a primary residence. Linking a house to a guild for access purposes should be possible, without the guild needing to "own" it. One player could still have the furnishing control, and have another of their houses as personal primary residence.

ThanatosXR

I don't get why people invest time and money into some instance house. might as well spend that on yor IRL house

Imperial_Voice

ThanatosXR wrote: »

I don't get why people invest time and money into some instance house. might as well spend that on yor IRL house

*shrugs* if you have the excess money in your budget do as thou will I guess.

matthiasmssb16_ESO

I dont think, there are "official" statements to the performance issues of consoles and the limitations of furniture slots on the internet. But i have read about the performance problems of that many items within the housing in general some month ago. And its true, that the more objects to be rendered, the more performance it uses. Exponentially i think.
As for the consoles in general (i have to admit, i never liked consoles because of this very reason!), the hardware inside a console is fixed and cannot be upgraded. So as for an example the xbox one was released in 2013. That means, the hardware integrated is of that year. But the gaming and hardware industry is progressing since that time, the xbox hardware, isnt! That means, there are certain performance limitations. And over time while the graphics of this game progresses/evolves with each year, those limitations will also grow with it.(sry for my bad english, but i hope i could deliver the point ^^)
Also it`s true, that older PC hardware will have the same problems, like the consoles most likely have. But i think, that should be an "option" to decide for everyone, of how many objects you want to place in your house! Not a thing forced on each and everyone of us with a restriction.
As for the PC client users, its always a possibility to upgrade their own PC`s or buy a better and newer one.
Console players sadly dont have that option, but they decided to play this game with a console in the first place, instead of choosing the PC option. That is and was their choice.
I dont see, why the PC user`s should suffer for that, if the performance issues of the consoles with their old hardware are realy the reason for those restrictions.
But that only ZOS and their devs can answer to, since i haven`t seen any official statements to this problem.
Also an option would be, to open the restriction at least a bit, lets say up to 800/900 and put in a "buy more slots" option into the crown shop with an information to it, that for consoles and older PC`s it might be bad to go higher, since you might encounter massive fps drops after.

Imperial_Voice

ghastley wrote: »

Housing does need the introduction of more specialized buildings. The needs of a crafting hall, an RP "movie set", and a combat arena are all different, and just lumping them all into a "large" category misses the point. Trading off one server limit against another should be possible.

I'm hopeful that the pilot project of a house with unlockable wings, or remote extensions, turns into what we've asked for before: a home that has multiple times the furnishing limit, because it's actually more than one home linked together. Load screens between parts is a reasonable price to pay.

The only other point I haven't seen raised here is the need for a Guildhall to be a primary residence. Linking a house to a guild for access purposes should be possible, without the guild needing to "own" it. One player could still have the furnishing control, and have another of their houses as personal primary residence.

My take from the patch notes is that they have no intention of doing this though. They plan to introduce a home with 4 seperate sections and give it a 700 shared limit.

MornaBaine

In the end it actually doesn't matter if consoles are to blame for the housing limits. What matters is what ZOS is going to do about it. Thus far the answer has been: Absolutely nothing. And that, frankly, is not acceptable.

Imperial_Voice

MornaBaine wrote: »

In the end it actually doesn't matter if consoles are to blame for the housing limits. What matters is what ZOS is going to do about it. Thus far the answer has been: Absolutely nothing. And that, frankly, is not acceptable.

Thank you. This is actually the point of the thread, not sad fanboyism to consoles, not arguing because a cheap laptop can match a console, the point is that ZoS has spent years doing nothing to solve a problem that players have had since housing was implemented and ita frankly unacceptable.

freespirit

@Imperial_Voice , firstly thankyou for a well written OP, I totally agree that atm housing is far from being as good as it should be...…. especially considering the amount the ZoS charge for the big Crown only houses!!

My best solution that would be ok with me(if 700 slots is truly all they can manage) is make the huge homes SMALLER...… give us the opportunity to decorate with clutter or in my case build stuff, but in a smaller area! Beautiful as the big homes are ever since I purchased Grand Topal Island and got very annoyed that I'll never be able to do it justice, I don't even bother previewing the new Crown store Houses.

Also If anyone from ZoS is reading @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom neither do I purchase Crown Store furnishings! I am not willing to spend any more real money on something that ultimately leaves me feeling it's a half finished project,

Secondly try not to participate in arguments that may get your otherwise excellent thread locked!

Tigerseye

I don't want loading screens within my home, sorry.

However, I do think we should be able to place any furnishings, instead of trophies/statuettes etc. (which do not fall under the "Traditional Furnishings" limit), if we prefer.

As for the new house (Jodes), I'm not convinced.

It's very dark, so will take a lot of lighting.

That will, obviously, eat into the furnishing limit.

Then it's also very decorative - almost overwhelmingly so - and there are really no neutral, simple soft furnishings to reduce that visual overload.

All the new furnishings are also ornate, or they are just wooden, like benches rather than sofas.

We really need a comfy-looking, sand-coloured, four seater couch, with matching rugs and curtains.

The new rugs are quite pretty, but they will probably look better somewhere plainer, like Hunding's, rather than in the new house.

There are a few nice things, but I am kind of underwhelmed overall.

I just want an Alinor Townhouse sized house, with a basement and a 700 item limit.

matthiasmssb16_ESO

That`s the point and that`s why i am writing here in the hope, that after releasing Elsweyer, there may be a bit more room and time for the devs, to adress this issue.
I like the housing in ESO very much, since its very open and gives you a lot of options and freedom. But since its release, there were not many changes or upgrades other then new items and houses. That is nice and i am glad about it, but i would like to fill my house a bit more since whole areas are empty and i had to thin out others, to just put some few things here and there to make it look not totaly empty.

So maybe a dev is watching this and puts it on a list of things to adress in the future at some point. Hopefully not to far in the future.

I know there will be much work for them in the upcoming weeks. Especially, after the release of Elsweyer. Since i expect a lot of "older" bugs to return again, like it was with nearly every dlc or addon in the past (assuming its a thing of "older" program libraries, during development of content, that has to be fixed on live server after the actual release of the content. but i am just guessing)

Maybe after that, there will be more time for the devs to adress these issues, hopefully.

Imperial_Voice

freespirit wrote: »

@Imperial_Voice , firstly thankyou for a well written OP, I totally agree that atm housing is far from being as good as it should be...…. especially considering the amount the ZoS charge for the big Crown only houses!!

My best solution that would be ok with me(if 700 slots is truly all they can manage) is make the huge homes SMALLER...… give us the opportunity to decorate with clutter or in my case build stuff, but in a smaller area! Beautiful as the big homes are ever since I purchased Grand Topal Island and got very annoyed that I'll never be able to do it justice, I don't even bother previewing the new Crown store Houses.

Also If anyone from ZoS is reading @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom neither do I purchase Crown Store furnishings! I am not willing to spend any more real money on something that ultimately leaves me feeling it's a half finished project,

Secondly try not to participate in arguments that may get your otherwise excellent thread locked!

I think thats the most outrageous part of it all. ZoS refuses to fix housing but still expects us to keep shelling out hundreds of dollars for a such a woefully incomplete system.

Tigerseye

BackAndAngry wrote: »

Housing is done although I hate to admit it. The dead sub forum is also a testament to the lack of interest by te players

Why I even have so many homes decorated I can only explain due to nothing else where to spend gold and mats

No, people still want to buy and furnish houses.

Housing just has some ongoing issues which aren't being addressed and as a feature, it just isn't currently being exploited to its fullest potential.

They are, also, just continuing down this road of assuming everyone wants these really big, impressive places, all the time.

When, really, many people just want a really nice large, but not huge, house with a generous furnishing limit that they can make into a really nice base for crafting and (perhaps) relaxing in.

Even in terms of guild halls, or lounges (in the case of one of my guilds), it's not being done properly - due to not being able to set someone's house as a guild hall and/or lounge.

Then you have the set crafting station debacle...

They need to introduce a new system, which allows you to consolidate all your set crafting stations into one per craft.

Thus freeing up a huge number of slots and allowing guild halls to look like guild halls, again.

Rather than something out of a bad dream.