Should sorcs hiding behind their pets be considered a targeting exploit?

Dojohoda

Targeting.
Show of hands of those who have dragon-leaped a mouse or a rabbit instead of the enemy you are fighting.

The sorc pet wall .. that is annoying. The sorc is nuking you while you are hitting the pet.
-As a nightblade, I could sneak around it.
-I guess as a DK, my leap might hit both of them.
-Templars can pokey them to death.
-Warden has ground bugs and scary ice ult.
That leaves sorc, what does sorc vs sorc do? Annoy each other to death?

Iskiab

No, smart use of game mechanics.

Wuuffyy

Iskiab wrote: »

No, smart use of game mechanics.

Yea
Smart as in hiding behind a breath of life tank machine.

FlopsyPrince

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Sounds like good footwork

This is probably true some sorcs have there zoo and it don't seem to help at all while other sorcs are almost untouchable.

I got killed earlier by a sorc with 4 pets and all he used for an attack was curse

4 pets? How do you get that many? One must have been an equipment proc.

HatchetHaro

ecru wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Tab-targeting is a thing; use it. Once you get a grasp on it, someone hiding behind pets will become much less of an issue for you.

Tab targeting does not work like you think it does, and I suspect people who make posts like these really don't ever queue for BGs and haven't experienced what the OP is talking about. Having a target highlighted does not guarantee that you will attack that target even if they are directly in your reticle. Targets are still prioritized based on distance, meaning that pet slightly off to the side of the person you have tab targeted in your reticle is what you attack instead of your highlighted target.

Okay, so, here is a quick lesson on targeting mechanics.

Targets all have two "hitboxes" when it comes to interaction with your target reticle: one small box directly encompassing the target and another with a much wider area of influence; let's just call them SmallBox and BigBox respectively, for lack of better terms.

In-game, you will target the target with the BigBox closest to your reticle, and that targeting system is distance-based as well; if there are two targets with overlapping BigBoxes, when you hover over both of those BigBoxes you'll target the target closest to you.

The SmallBox, however, works slightly differently; it directly overrides your BigBox targeting when you're hovering over a target's SmallBox. This is also distance-based, in that if SmallBoxes are overlapped in your reticle, the one closest to you is selected. Your reticle will shrink down whenever you're hovering over a SmallBox, but not when it's on a BigBox; that's how you know which one you're hovering over.

What Tab-targeting does is that it will override every single other targeting solution when you're hovering over the tabbed target's SmallBox; in that case, it will target the tabbed target even when your target is obstructed by another target's SmallBox. However, if you have a target tabbed but your reticle is not hovering over the tabbed target's SmallBox, it will continue to obey the original rules above.

So yeah, I do know how tab-targeting works. I know how to use it, and have used it extensively for over three years in both PvE and PvP content. Once you know how to use it properly, targeting enemies behind other enemies become trivial.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Sorcs went from using the shield stack to using Daedric Meat Shields. Is it frustrating in BG's when the enemy team of 4 sorcs and their army of pets roll up like a Cyro zerg? Hell yeah.

But I'm not blaming sorcs for using the skills and terrain afforded to them. Tactics wise it's better to find a way to flank sorcs now. Most BG's terrain allows for this and Cyro is open world so allows for it too.

If ZOS want to find a way to make attacks prioritise humans over pets in that situation then I'm happy for them to do it.

Minyassa

Nope. That's part of the point of pets.

Caligamy_ESO

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Kill the pet? Walk through it and kill the Sorcerer? Get in their face and put some real pressure on them maybe?

Sorcerer does ranged dps really well and if you're just gonna stand back on open fields and act clueless how to deal with a terrible AI non-collision pet then you've got bigger problems than targeting.

You and the guy above you clearly don’t play pvp. This is one of those moments where it’s best just not to say anything.

You're right, it must've been PVE I was playing nearly every night for the past month. All those pesky NPC's in overland with their 3 second life span twilights and stunnable recasts.

me_ming

Gilvoth wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the only problem i see with it, is that they can kill you, while you heavily struggle to hit them or do damage to them.
it is still possible to damage them, but it is very restricted.

good players are exploiters

that term "Good Players"
was created by people teaching exploits and training others that those exploits are not exploits, but instead call the exploits "skills" or "being skilled" when infact those actions are exploits and require no skill at all.

the only "skill" that is taking place during those exploits is the skill in committing a constant flow of various forms of the exploits and making an art form of the exploits much the same way we witness Lawyers protect the guilty.

Just because you haven't killed a pet sorc positioning himself so you hit his pet doesn't mean it's an exploit, it clearly means one thing only, you were less smart than the pet sorc.

siddique

LMAO, you can't be serious.

me_ming

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

No, smart use of game mechanics.

Yea
Smart as in hiding behind a breath of life tank machine.

So it's smarter to hide in a squishy character then? lol Where's your logic? Of course it IS smarter to hide behind a breath of life tank machine. Just because you can't kill someone doesn't mean it's dumb. It means like you, you'd do everything to save your ass. Unless you're suicidal. Because c'mon let's not be hypocrite here we go to PvP and not want to die. So don't expect your opponent to offer him/herself to you.

FleetwoodSmack

Gilvoth wrote: »

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Honestly, if they have a Winged Twilight out y'all should be killing it anyways.

the very first mmo i played, i had to learn the hard way about pets.

"always kill the caster, not the cast"

That's true for other MMOs. ESO is a completely different, buggy monster. I've seen sorcs have the healing capacity to go from 14% health and then go right back up to full health completely warded while 20+ DC are chasing the sorc instead of a few people going for the pet. Had they killed the pet? Executes would've worked in a lot of those situations. I've literally not had one issue with killing a sorc with their two pets out. Three if they're wearing Maw.

Battlegrounds are a different story, but I go for the objectives. If it's for the kill, surf in the group, root enemy players, and then just run them down. Ez Pz.

CatchMeTrolling

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Kill the pet? Walk through it and kill the Sorcerer? Get in their face and put some real pressure on them maybe?

Sorcerer does ranged dps really well and if you're just gonna stand back on open fields and act clueless how to deal with a terrible AI non-collision pet then you've got bigger problems than targeting.

You and the guy above you clearly don’t play pvp. This is one of those moments where it’s best just not to say anything.

You're right, it must've been PVE I was playing nearly every night for the past month. All those pesky NPC's in overland with their 3 second life span twilights and stunnable recasts.

Well to be fair that’s that’s typically how it goes for people with ESO in their names.

TheValar85

No it is not. Pet builds supose to be like this. in pve it is the same.
So dont call for ehm another sorc thing, you know what i mean.

Destyran

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Strategic positioning. No different than hiding behind a tree or rock.

I think I have seen a few people stand in their pets. Sorcs are op. When you jump on a meta sauce sorc it’s kinda hard to believe how much effort you have to put into some other classes to be that effective.

Yes the good players who understand how most classes work can counter sorcs and all classes alike but 90% of Cyrodiil are potatoes

Caligamy_ESO

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Kill the pet? Walk through it and kill the Sorcerer? Get in their face and put some real pressure on them maybe?

Sorcerer does ranged dps really well and if you're just gonna stand back on open fields and act clueless how to deal with a terrible AI non-collision pet then you've got bigger problems than targeting.

You and the guy above you clearly don’t play pvp. This is one of those moments where it’s best just not to say anything.

You're right, it must've been PVE I was playing nearly every night for the past month. All those pesky NPC's in overland with their 3 second life span twilights and stunnable recasts.

Well to be fair that’s that’s typically how it goes for people with ESO in their names.

"This is one of those moments where it’s best just not to say anything."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243411/peoples-names

Beardimus

nryerson1025 wrote: »

not an "i got killed post" just curious if this could be considering cheating, not cheating borderline cheating...?

LOL its about as cheating as templars healing, DK's reflecting and nightblades disappearing

OwnerOfSuccuby

nryerson1025 wrote: »

not an "i got killed post" just curious if this could be considering cheating, not cheating borderline cheating...?

Yes it does !

When i target it - all my attacks need to go to target. Not in random target ! But in target that i lock !!!

Do not care what i attack if i do not lock it. But if target is locked i must attack only it !!!

OwnerOfSuccuby

I even have situation when sorc was in front of me and pet was behind left, sorc was targeted but i attack pet !!! It is not normal !!!

BlizzySnowolf

Don't think it's really cheating more like strategic positioning but of course as a sorcerer you want to keep your distance from the enemy since you aren't melee ranged.

OwnerOfSuccuby

It is not strategick. It is bug. Pets are near immortal. If you fire one target, and with no reason all strikes another it is game bug and need to be fix.

We have notarget styky system here, not a random target. Or make pets easy to kill. I attack it by 200 it hit me 3000-4000.

Immmortal thing that hit and do not let even fire to locked targets is bug !

Michae

You mentioned that it's different than hiding behind the rocks or trees because you can't target trees. Ok, think of it as pets rushing to cover their masters from harm, like this (0:48):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp502kBXw6Y

CatchMeTrolling

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Kill the pet? Walk through it and kill the Sorcerer? Get in their face and put some real pressure on them maybe?

Sorcerer does ranged dps really well and if you're just gonna stand back on open fields and act clueless how to deal with a terrible AI non-collision pet then you've got bigger problems than targeting.

You and the guy above you clearly don’t play pvp. This is one of those moments where it’s best just not to say anything.

You're right, it must've been PVE I was playing nearly every night for the past month. All those pesky NPC's in overland with their 3 second life span twilights and stunnable recasts.

Well to be fair that’s that’s typically how it goes for people with ESO in their names.

"This is one of those moments where it’s best just not to say anything."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243411/peoples-names

I wasn’t talking about on the forums but in general.

OwnerOfSuccuby

Michae wrote: »

You mentioned that it's different than hiding behind the rocks or trees because you can't target trees. Ok, think of it as pets rushing to cover their masters from harm, like this (0:48):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp502kBXw6Y

Stones do not fly, heal and do not attack you. If it is targeting, it have to be easy to kill than. If not, it must not be in players target.

mairwen85

So... let's nerf sorcs to the point that they are reduced to this (or plague doctor builds)... and then still moan you can't kill them.

L... 2... P...

Simple.

Is it annoying? yes, so are werewolves with their easy mode light attack spam; so are nightblades who drop in and out of combat via cloak; so are tanky un-killable builds -- but, they are all using elements of the game design to their advantage... exploit? I think not. You just have to learn how to play against them. PvP is tactical play, not a button mash-o-thon.

Undefwun

Bad game design.. but of course there is always a bunch of flops willing to take advantage, as per usual.

"HURR DURR... BUT ZOS PUT IN THE GAME.. ME GOOD AT PVP... LOLOLOLOLOL"

I just don't count them as players, just environmental hazard like fall dmg or NPCs. Loggin in and holding left mouse button is not 'playing'. This is more for the zoo sorcs, but even hiding inside your atro is for f***boys...

Same goes for the sweaty pack leader werewolves... already a strong build, did you really need 2 pets that follow ppl across the map, pull anything out of stealth for no reason, and eat executes, frags etc etc.

FleetwoodSmack

Undefwun wrote: »

Same goes for the sweaty pack leader werewolves... already a strong build, did you really need 2 pets that follow ppl across the map, pull anything out of stealth for no reason, and eat executes, frags etc etc.

Sooooooo....


What you mean to say is...


You're not a dog person.

siddique

Please nerf wings, it must be an exploit because I can't even attack them!

Who hides in a fight? Nerf that cloak!

He fights with a bear! Nerf the damn bear they already have shalks.

Templars heal spam make them immortal they should also be nerfed.

teladoy

Hiding behind a pet is as legitimate as becoming invisible, doing a lot of damage in a burst of seconds, stunning and becoming invisible an endless number of times without any kind of penalization.

OwnerOfSuccuby

It is not thread about nerf sorc.

It is a thread about - sorc can not be attacked at all becouse of game bugs. It must be fixed.

If player is targeted you have to attack him. Not random target, that even can stand behind you that you even do not see. Or 10 meters avay from sorc to the left.

If it is 2 targets, you select one of it - you have to attack it, not another target 10 meters away. Not random target. Just a target you select.

Yes it can be hard to lock the target. But when targed is locked all other attacks need to go in it. Not just in random direction !