Should sorcs hiding behind their pets be considered a targeting exploit?

Girl_Number8

No it is not exploit, here's a lollipop.

SFDB

Look at that one at the top exploiting like that, what a prick.

Vapirko

You can try tab targeting. Should help somewhat.

MentalxHammer

This is a ridiculously broken form of defense, we need a way to ignore pets when targeting.

OwnerOfSuccuby

It is not problem - if you woul damage it when tab it. The problem is that i tab sorc, it is licked in target. But damage goes to random direction. Not in sorc that is tabed but in his pet or in any ither direction but not in him.

OtarTheMad

Just when pets became useful, now here come the nerf threads lol. Why would anyone call it an exploit? Why not create a thread that says: "Need help countering pet sorcs"

Some suggestions were dropped here but you could just kill the pets and if the sorc tries summoning it again just bash/interrupt him. Or ignore the pets and focus the sorc. Even if you're ranged you can still be in the sorcs face and cast ranged abilities. Using angles help too, you can easily angle yourself in a way where you hit the player and not the pets.

Many things are annoying in PvP, especially with players using anything to get away from damage. Whether it's using pets as a sorc, or the bear as a warden, or LOS around a rock or wall or tree or anything really as a stamina player, stamblades who seem to cloak more than magblades etc. I try to think of it as a mechanic that I need to learn to counter... no different than learning to counter mechanics in a dungeon.

EDIT- As for times the pets were behind you and you somehow hit them, idk... bad luck? I have fought pet sorcs and also been one and usually I hit the sorc, sometimes the pets got in the way. Also when I was a pet sorc I have had people who could easily get around my pets and those, well let's just say had trouble for whatever reasons. Suggestion, join a PvP Guild and find a friend who has a pet sorc you can duel (preferably in a isolated location) and just practice fighting one, and get tips from them.

Alucardo

Banana wrote: »

Sounds like good footwork

A potato could hide behind another object. But let's be real here, hiding behind their shields and constant resto ults isn't enough. Yes, it's no secret that I hate pets.

Imryll

Move to adjust your point of view or use AoE to damage both sorc and pet?

Commancho

Should be a cloaking nightblade considered as targeting exploit?

Ladislao

Perhaps this is the most dumbest topic for the month. Literally a census of those who do not know how to use the targeting system.

Thank you, OP.

Ipslor

MentalxHammer wrote: »

This is a ridiculously broken form of defense, we need a way to ignore pets when targeting.

Agreed. Trees and stones, too. I think it's too OP for one's using these to LoS.
This is time when we all raise our voices friends. Time to be heard. Time to completely remove all obstacles! No LoS anymore!

Alucardo

Ladislao wrote: »

Perhaps this is the most dumbest topic for the month. Literally a census of those who do not know how to use the targeting system.

Thank you, OP.

While I agree the topic is a little silly, the targeting system is useless when a sorc surrounds themselves with 4 pets, and god forbid you're fighting multiple pet sorcs in battlegrounds.

Aurielle

As per usual, the assenting and dissenting opinions in this thread appear largely divided between those who abuse pet stacking, and those who do not.

To be clear, the problem is NOT the lone pet sorc who uses matriarch for burst heals; the problem is pet sorc groups (and WW groups) that stack as many pets as possible to make targeting a nightmare. A single four man pet sorc group in BGs can have anywhere from 8-16 pets active at once. That, my friends, is a zerg in a small, often claustrophobic environment that was not built for large group zerging. Tab targeting on console is clunky at best, meaning that pets frequently eat single target ultimates intended for the player. Pet groups stack pets knowing that they will gain up to 100% free mitigation from single target attacks. They exploit ZOS’s faulty targeting system to grief other players and gain an advantage over classes and builds that CAN’T equip a mobile meat shield.

OwnerOfSuccuby

Imryll wrote: »

Move to adjust your point of view or use AoE to damage both sorc and pet?

It is no aoe capable to brake throug 2 damage shields, immortal pet by the way it attacks hard you.

Not aoe damage but : aoe stunnsaoe roots, aoe debuffs. Not have this enough in game to breake throug. The bugs have to be fixed.

It is not like - damage aoe. It is like all goes to wrong target, including aoe. And do not hit primary target.

OwnerOfSuccuby

Ladislao wrote: »

Perhaps this is the most dumbest topic for the month. Literally a census of those who do not know how to use the targeting system.

Thank you, OP.

Only dumbest is you. I write that attacks do not go to tabed target. All go to pet. Buged system do not let attack tabbed target.

Do you read before posting or only write random massages?

Aurielle

Firstmep wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Should LOS behind a rock or tree or another player be considered a targeting exploit?

No, its not.

Its cheese, not cheating.

I find it hilarious that PVP pet sorcs went from being useless to the target of complaints once someone figured out how to make pets actually useful.

Also continued nerfing of non pet sorcs forced this meta, we can thank all the shields are op whiners.

I keep seeing this argument. You do not need to use pets to be effective as a magicka sorcerer post-shield nerfs. Full stop. If your intention is to remain in full divines gear and not use any defensive skills besides hardened ward and dampen magic/healing ward, then yeah, the zoo shield is beneficial as it offers free mitigation (which, I have to assume, is unintended on ZOS’s part). You can also be effective by equipping impen gear, however, and using other defensive skills/passives without relying on targeting issues to cheese your way to a win.

Signed,
A magsorc who does not use pets

Ragnaroek93

Use tab target and lower your sensivity (not perfect but still works pretty well). Main problem is the Twilight hitting players for 5k, that's the reason why petsorcs are so oppressive, not the target system.

Undefwun

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Just when pets became useful, now here come the nerf threads lol. Why would anyone call it an exploit? Why not create a thread that says: "Need help countering pet sorcs"

Ok... 5Medium/2Heavy 2H/DW stam sorc approaching pet sorc.. 2 pets out.

Can't crit rush cos he's hiding behind 1 pet the second he saw you approaching.

You are already being zapped by the flappy pet and sorc is casting daedric prey then heavy attacks, sicking 2 pets on you.

You might be in melee range now, cos either you are quick or just crit rushed pet just to get close.

You land a shot or so ,pet sorc realises you may be an issue, levels to stage 3 and drops atro and starts breaking LoS. Now have you 3 pets zapping away, boosted by DP, but no target.
Your attacks are hitting pets (not by choice) and they are protected by ward and even without it they are not a 1 or 2 shot.

Time to start healing cos your health is dropping, and the sorc does nothing but hold down left mouse button for that lightning heavy, and is moving around behind and basically inside the atro so you can't target them.

By now the pet sorc reaches his final form, the full blown cancer ZOO sorc as Maw of the Infernal procs and now you have 4 pets on you, you still haven't done any meaningful damage, wasting GCDs on heals and and you either GTFO if you haven't left it too late or go for broke and drop DBoS and hope you got them while ward is down and you can land something while they go down for a second.

All they have done is cast 1 skill, plus maybe ward and held down LMB. If you are really unlucky, they'll hit you with lightning reach in between and you get stunned. Then you might as well get ready to respawn

It's basically a 1v5 and it's constant incoming damage and they have 10k+ crit burst heals of the flappy. How is this fine? My vigor and FM/Rally can't heal like that. That is a zero skill, cowardly (since I can't use the p word on the forums) play style

No one is asking to 1 shot pet sorcs (well I am not), but I'd like to have a fighting chance, even if the odds are not stacked in my favor. I am quite happy to engage a DK on my magsorc or magblade, even with the wings in their current state. I still have a shot and it's an actual fight against another player, they are actually doing stuff.

I been in a BG or 2 where there was 2 zoo sorcs just holding hands the whole time. That's EIGHT pets... doing free damage and providing cover.

Maybe I will take the advice and try to find someone and try and practice in private... but at the moment the W/L ratio is definitely not in my stam sorcs favor... especially when add in my average 300-350 ping in BGs

OwnerOfSuccuby

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Use tab target and lower your sensivity (not perfect but still works pretty well). Main problem is the Twilight hitting players for 5k, that's the reason why petsorcs are so oppressive, not the target system.

Not working at all.

I always tab my target. But more than half attacks go to wrong target. Even if i place cursor on sorc, a lot of attacks go to pet with no reason. Even if pet is far from cursor. If it is on 1 line and there can be 4 pets !!! All go to nothing (2 pet , ultimate golem and minster sets summon)

And pets are near immortal. Why pet strikes 5 k, but i only hit it for 200, and do not let attack my target ?

Aurielle

Undefwun wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Just when pets became useful, now here come the nerf threads lol. Why would anyone call it an exploit? Why not create a thread that says: "Need help countering pet sorcs"

Ok... 5Medium/2Heavy 2H/DW stam sorc approaching pet sorc.. 2 pets out.

Can't crit rush cos he's hiding behind 1 pet the second he saw you approaching.

You are already being zapped by the flappy pet and sorc is casting daedric prey then heavy attacks, sicking 2 pets on you.

You might be in melee range now, cos either you are quick or just crit rushed pet just to get close.

You land a shot or so ,pet sorc realises you may be an issue, levels to stage 3 and drops atro and starts breaking LoS. Now have you 3 pets zapping away, boosted by DP, but no target.
Your attacks are hitting pets (not by choice) and they are protected by ward and even without it they are not a 1 or 2 shot.

Time to start healing cos your health is dropping, and the sorc does nothing but hold down left mouse button for that lightning heavy, and is moving around behind and basically inside the atro so you can't target them.

By now the pet sorc reaches his final form, the full blown cancer ZOO sorc as Maw of the Infernal procs and now you have 4 pets on you, you still haven't done any meaningful damage, wasting GCDs on heals and and you either GTFO if you haven't left it too late or go for broke and drop DBoS and hope you got them while ward is down and you can land something while they go down for a second.

All they have done is cast 1 skill, plus maybe ward and held down LMB. If you are really unlucky, they'll hit you with lightning reach in between and you get stunned. Then you might as well get ready to respawn

It's basically a 1v5 and it's constant incoming damage and they have 10k+ crit burst heals of the flappy. How is this fine? My vigor and FM/Rally can't heal like that. That is a zero skill, cowardly (since I can't use the p word on the forums) play style

No one is asking to 1 shot pet sorcs (well I am not), but I'd like to have a fighting chance, even if the odds are not stacked in my favor. I am quite happy to engage a DK on my magsorc or magblade, even with the wings in their current state. I still have a shot and it's an actual fight against another player, they are actually doing stuff.

I been in a BG or 2 where there was 2 zoo sorcs just holding hands the whole time. That's EIGHT pets... doing free damage and providing cover.

Maybe I will take the advice and try to find someone and try and practice in private... but at the moment the W/L ratio is definitely not in my stam sorcs favor... especially when add in my average 300-350 ping in BGs

Only two? I’ve been in BGs before where there were four pet sorcs circle jerking behind their tightly packed mobile meat shield, and with two packleader WWs using Maw on the other opposing team for good measure! Twenty-two targetable pets for six players...

But nahhh, it’s not an exploit!

ErMurazor

Same reason sorcs use engine guardian monster set

Mason_King

I think It's good technique, using all your resources.
Sometimes I back Up as aa Warden and Let my Guardian deal the attacks/get attacked. and I'll come in when the enemy's health is at 50%.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Sounds like good footwork

A potato could hide behind another object.

Well the abiliti to hide behind object while beeing able to put pressure on enemies is pretty much whats differenciate the skilled PvPer from the potatos.

Hint: The potatos stand in plain sight while trying to be missiles turret.

OwnerOfSuccuby

Lets be honest. If pets is impossible to kill - just do not let us target it.

A attack player for 3k, pet by 300. What a joke ? Make a option when player can choise - newer attack pets at all. It is immortal - okay - why i must hit it. Makeall damage go my target not pet.

When there are only 4 petosorcs = 20 people. It hards a lot. It makes my fps cry. I need not see all this immortal trash snd stuckin it. Make it like ghosts then. No targetable, not stuck in it. If we can not kill it, then what is our point to target and stuck in it?

Alucardo

ErMurazor wrote: »

Same reason sorcs use engine guardian monster set

Wasted so many 2h ults on that stupid thing

Uryel

So, "make use of your brain" is now to be considered an exploit ? Figures.

Alucardo

Uryel wrote: »

So, "make use of your brain" is now to be considered an exploit ? Figures.

Surrounding yourself in pets for cheap mitigation is cowardice, not intelligence

Aurielle

Uryel wrote: »

So, "make use of your brain" is now to be considered an exploit ? Figures.

Please explain to me how petstacking makes use of your brain.

Personally, I’d rather do all the killing, repositioning, and active defense myself with stat-based sets, rather than relying on a brainless meat shield to protect me...but, hey, that’s just me.

IzzyStardust

nryerson1025 wrote: »

okay so my second question if anyone would be so kind to offer some tips: from the perspective of the player fighting the sorc, what are good ways to workaround it?

How about KILL THEIR PETS!? That's what I do. Also l2p. Seriously. Maybe we can make an add on that will just play for you.

I LOVE it when I get a 20 sorcs almost as much as 20 nb.

SirAndy wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Do you see the difference between those two examples, and can you see why the standard of "hard to hit or damage while they can kill you" is absolutely ueless as a metric due to it applying to perfectly legitimate situations?

To quote my girlfriend:

Your logic has no place in this argument!

And your GF is quoting buffy.

IzzyStardust

therift wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

okay so my second question if anyone would be so kind to offer some tips: from the perspective of the player fighting the sorc, what are good ways to workaround it?

Good question.

1) Dodge roll left or right, kill Sorc

2) Dodge roll through pet, kill Sorc.

3) Kill pet, kill Sorc.

4) Javelin pet, kill Sorc (Templars only)

5) Wait one second for pet to move, kill Sorc.


Pets are not much of a protection from me.

So much this!

Also; pets are just where they are usually- no on is trying to HIDE BEHIND their clannfear ffs. *eyeroll*