Should sorcs hiding behind their pets be considered a targeting exploit?

nryerson1025

not an "i got killed post" just curious if this could be considering cheating, not cheating borderline cheating...?

Banana

Sounds like good footwork

Bouldercleave

Strategic positioning. No different than hiding behind a tree or rock.

VaranisArano

Should LOS behind a rock or tree or another player be considered a targeting exploit?

No, its not.

Its cheese, not cheating.

I find it hilarious that PVP pet sorcs went from being useless to the target of complaints once someone figured out how to make pets actually useful.

nryerson1025

was only a question; i'm not voicing some anti pet tirade here.

so what are resolutions to this targetting issue that i, and others around me, are having?

nryerson1025

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Strategic positioning. No different than hiding behind a tree or rock.

to be fair, that's incorrect. you can't target a tree or rock

Bouldercleave

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Strategic positioning. No different than hiding behind a tree or rock.

to be fair, that's incorrect. you can't target a tree or rock

To be fair, you get my point.

oxygen_thief

you can consider it like whatever you want. it doesnt matter

Crixus8000

I just don't bother fighting anyone who uses a pet. It's bad enough trying to land dizzy on a skilled player, it's basically impossible if they have a pet, and if they are a petsorc then I know I now have a 0% chance to hit them.

nryerson1025

Bouldercleave wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Strategic positioning. No different than hiding behind a tree or rock.

to be fair, that's incorrect. you can't target a tree or rock

To be fair, you get my point.

i don't actually. the targetting issue is about incorrectly targetting the pets. so at its very foundation, your analogy is not right. you are not incorrectly targetting a rock when someone los'es behind one

DocFrost72

How are they using a mechanic in a way that was not intended? That's the real question before I answer.

Amanuensis

So, another nerf-sorcerers thread? Because not opening one's self to attacks from others is too op?

nryerson1025

okay so my second question if anyone would be so kind to offer some tips: from the perspective of the player fighting the sorc, what are good ways to workaround it?

Bouldercleave

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Strategic positioning. No different than hiding behind a tree or rock.

to be fair, that's incorrect. you can't target a tree or rock

To be fair, you get my point.

i don't actually. the targetting issue is about incorrectly targetting the pets. so at its very foundation, your analogy is not right. you are not incorrectly targetting a rock when someone los'es behind one

Jesus Christ. Nerds will be nerds I guess... I'll choose my analogy better just for you next time.

No, I don't feel it is an exploit or cheat.

nryerson1025

Bouldercleave wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Strategic positioning. No different than hiding behind a tree or rock.

to be fair, that's incorrect. you can't target a tree or rock

To be fair, you get my point.

i don't actually. the targetting issue is about incorrectly targetting the pets. so at its very foundation, your analogy is not right. you are not incorrectly targetting a rock when someone los'es behind one

Jesus Christ. Nerds will be nerds I guess... I'll choose my analogy better just for you next time.

No, I don't feel it is an exploit or cheat.

i understand and that now makes sense to me, thank you. maybe you can choose a better analogy to rock or tree los though...or perhaps offer any sort of counter

Gilvoth

yes, it is an exploit, but it is also the fault of the games design, there are other exploits much worse.
the only problem i see with it, is that they can kill you, while you heavily struggle to hit them or do damage to them.
it is still possible to damage them, but it is very restricted.

Fur_like_snow

I guess something similar would be using LOS between oneself and friendly guards in cyrodiil. It is worth pointing out that guards can body block a player and pets cannot. I don’t personally see either situation as a cheat or exploit.

DocFrost72

Gilvoth wrote: »

yes, it is an exploit, but it is also the fault of the games design, there are other exploits much worse.

How are players exploiting? What game mechanic are they using in a way it wasn't designed?

idk

nryerson1025 wrote: »

not an "i got killed post" just curious if this could be considering cheating, not cheating borderline cheating...?

LOL, not at all. Sorry, but this was funny.

Gilvoth

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

yes, it is an exploit, but it is also the fault of the games design, there are other exploits much worse.

How are players exploiting? What game mechanic are they using in a way it wasn't designed?

the parts of my comment that you deleted, fully answer your questions.

DocFrost72

Gilvoth wrote: »

the only problem i see with it, is that they can kill you, while you heavily struggle to hit them or do damage to them.
it is still possible to damage them, but it is very restricted.

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but from this definition good players are exploiters, full stop.

What ability, mechanic, or set is being used in a way that runs counter to their design? Pets were designed with collision and health bars, they are designed to get in the way if they are between another target and you. This is intended. It is not an exploit.

therift

nryerson1025 wrote: »

okay so my second question if anyone would be so kind to offer some tips: from the perspective of the player fighting the sorc, what are good ways to workaround it?

Good question.

1) Dodge roll left or right, kill Sorc

2) Dodge roll through pet, kill Sorc.

3) Kill pet, kill Sorc.

4) Javelin pet, kill Sorc (Templars only)

5) Wait one second for pet to move, kill Sorc.


Pets are not much of a protection from me.

Gilvoth

players in the past have received bans for exploiting boss fights, where they stood somewhere on the battle area that made it almost impossible for the boss to do damage to them.
the devs made it public that this was an exploit and they did temporarily ban those people that did this.
we see the same action taking place here with the pets, but it is not as strong as the exploit with the boss pve fights because here with this pet exploit in pvp you can still hit the sorcerer just like i mentioned earlier:

"they can kill you, while you heavily struggle to hit them or do damage to them.
it is still possible to damage them, but it is very restricted."

redspecter23

I don't think it's an exploit, but I would like to see pets adjusted so that they can't hide behind them so easily anymore. Anything that reduces the MASSIVE size of the matriarch would be a huge improvement.

SirAndy

nryerson1025 wrote: »

not an "i got killed post" just curious if this could be considering cheating, not cheating borderline cheating...?

It goes both ways though, my Pet Sorc can't target anything blocked by his pet(s) ...

DocFrost72

Gilvoth wrote: »

players in the past have received bans for exploiting boss fights, where they stood somewhere on the battle area that made it almost impossible for the boss to do damage to them.
the devs made it public that this was an exploit and they did temporarily ban those people that did this.
we see the same action taking place here with the pets, but it is not as strong as the exploit with the boss pve fights because here with this pet exploit in pvp you can still hit the sorcerer just like i mentioned earlier:

"they can kill you, while you heavily struggle to hit them or do damage to them.
it is still possible to damage them, but it is very restricted."

Your argument is...

I've faced tougher *straw mans*, let's use that as the polite way to phrase it.

The crucial difference between your example and sorc pets is that the players exploiting knew the boss fight was not meant to be completed from a balcony with a singular ability, without fully aggroing the boss.

Pets are designed with health bars and collision. They are designed to get in the way.

Do you see the difference between those two examples, and can you see why the standard of "hard to hit or damage while they can kill you" is absolutely ueless as a metric due to it applying to perfectly legitimate situations?

Gilvoth

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the only problem i see with it, is that they can kill you, while you heavily struggle to hit them or do damage to them.
it is still possible to damage them, but it is very restricted.

good players are exploiters

that term "Good Players"
was created by people teaching exploits and training others that those exploits are not exploits, but instead call the exploits "skills" or "being skilled" when infact those actions are exploits and require no skill at all.

the only "skill" that is taking place during those exploits is the skill in committing a constant flow of various forms of the exploits and making an art form of the exploits much the same way we witness Lawyers protect the guilty.

SirAndy

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Do you see the difference between those two examples, and can you see why the standard of "hard to hit or damage while they can kill you" is absolutely ueless as a metric due to it applying to perfectly legitimate situations?

To quote my girlfriend:

Your logic has no place in this argument!

Juhasow

Bouldercleave wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Strategic positioning. No different than hiding behind a tree or rock.

to be fair, that's incorrect. you can't target a tree or rock

To be fair, you get my point.

I think it is You who dont get the point. There is a difference when enemie is using rocks and trees to hide behind those because both You and him are unable to shoot anything at each other and both You and him have the same LoS in that situation. Hiding behind the pets it's completly different story since that petsorc is able to shoot You normally and You cannot hit him with same effectiveness and pets also waste Your resources because You use abilities they just dont hit right target. It's like having damage sponge placed in front of You.

So yeah it's different then hiding behind the trees or rocks unless You have acces to some mobile trees or rocks that can also take damage for You and dont block Your line of sight..

DocFrost72

Gilvoth wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the only problem i see with it, is that they can kill you, while you heavily struggle to hit them or do damage to them.
it is still possible to damage them, but it is very restricted.

good players are exploiters

that term "Good Players"
was created by people teaching exploits and training others that those exploits are not exploits, but instead call the exploits "skills" or "being skilled" when infact those actions are exploits and require no skill at all.

the only "skill" that is taking place during those exploits is the skill in committing a constant flow of various forms of the exploits and making an art form of the exploits much the same way we witness Lawyers protect the guilty.

You have no interest in a reasoned debate or answering my questions. I have no interest in your argument now. Have a pleasant day

Juhasow

Not an exploit just bad game design.