Update 22 Combat Direction

Victor_Blade

I hope they buff magblade survival as well unless they're tying to force the magicka build to be limited to pvp ganking.

Deathlord92

All I ask zos is pretty please with cherry on top do not nerf my nb I been loyal eso player since console release I’m paying subscription and I love my nb 🙂🙏

Ragnarock41

citats wrote: »

I think carve will need more than a 25% bleed damage increase to be anywhere close to the dw bleed ability....

I don't think the game needs an aoe rending slash.

Deathlord92

Rehdaun wrote: »

Somehow I'm not feeling overly excited about these so-called balance changes. I'm envisioning a lot of nerfs with little not no buffs.

Quick pole. Who doesn't think that major fracture is going to be ripped from surprise attack, a very useful skill for pve dps and kept in mark target, a niche skill that is in nearly no one's rotation?

Anyone? Anyone?

That doesn't mean that mark target will become any more useful and people will magically start using it. It means that the rotation will remain the same and the class will become weaker.

I sure hope I'm wrong

I hope thy just leave nb alone maybe show magblade some love as its very weak

Deathlord92

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Hey gang!

With Update 22 coming to the PTS in just a few weeks, we want to give you all an update on how we’re approaching combat adjustments this patch. We know there’s a lot of information out there already since the embargo lift and it’s great to see everyone excited about Elsweyr and the Necromancer! However, be aware unless it’s stated from us or included in official patch notes, it’s all subject to change until it’s on the PTS and Live.

With that being said, let’s dive into how we are approaching the Elsweyr update. First off, we are getting the Necromancer ready for prime time! This class was created with three major tenants of play:

• Create a class that feels entirely unique and different than any other class in ESO
• Create a class that embodies Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore/canon
• Add new gameplay elements via corpses, temporary pets and emphasize positional gameplay

The Necromancer is the first class to have multiple passes by our own players prior to it launching with the Class Reps and members of the community that recently visited the studio. Their feedback has greatly helped our development process, and we believe the Necromancer is setup nicely to fill both Magicka or Stamina roles for healing, tanking or DPS. Thanks again to the fine folks that visited us, and we’re looking forward to everyone trying out the Necromancer on the PTS! .

Over the years of development, there have been numerous changes to class abilities both in function and under the hood with code. These changes have shaped the face of combat in ESO over time, but as the game has evolved with each passing year, we have accrued many changes that have fallen out of vogue. With this update, we are making several adjustments to bring abilities back in line with the current state of the game and create a solid foundation of standards for the future.

In Update 22 we have done a pass on every Class ability looking for errant or missing data. We also made sure abilities follow a coherent pattern of Rank progression that is easy to identify. For example, if an ability morph does damage, the rank progression adds more damage. If an ability morph does healing, the rank progression does more healing.

Ability coefficients and costs have also been audited to ensure that healing or damage within the type of ability (such as a DD, DoT, HoT, Direct Heal) are more consistent. The duration of abilities and sub-effects have been normalized so they adhere to patterns that fall in line with the play-style of ESO, making their use in rotations easier to handle. For example:

• Single Target DoTs have been a long standing group of abilities that were not consistent in their application of damage. Looking at these types of abilities’ duration, tick frequencies, and delays, a consistent pattern of application was missing from ability to ability. Some of these abilities have even be used as "spammable" abilities (Searing Strike), despite that being against their design. In this pass, we've restructured them to follow a standard behavior:
  • If there is an initial hit upon casting one of these abilities, there will always be a delay between the initial hit and the first tick
  • If there no initial hit, there will be no delay
  • Delays (i.e. an ability that doesn’t hit immediately) will always be the same duration as the DoT's frequency in which it ticks.

Next were abilities that were considered out of standards based on the audit pass noted above. Some abilities contained a LOT of functionality (Incapacitating Strike), and others not as much (Teleport Strike) when looking at abilities across the board. Moving forward, abilities within the same “Category” should have a base level of performance but also have something that makes it unique. In doing this pass, we found abilities that had components which were above or below base functionality and made adjustments to bring them in line. In some cases, base damage/healing has been increased make up for the removal of additional functions. In other cases, base damage/healing has been reduced to make up for adding in additional functions.

We also took a high level pass at Class abilities, specifically looking for similar/redundant functions within each class's entire tool kit (like Mark Target granting Fracture and Surprise Attack granting Fracture). While we want there to be different abilities that operate similarly in functionality between your class, weapon, guild, and other skill lines, we want to avoid abilities within the same class to provide multiple sources of the same effect(s). This is an on-going effort for future skill lines, and we are not opposed to revisiting the structure of abilities that have already received this audit. Also note these passes were done in conjunction with the changes noted above regarding coefficient/cost/Rank progression, etc.

In terms of quality of life changes, we’ve heard your feedback about cast times being difficult to incorporate into fluid combat/rotation, and have made adjustments to many abilities with cast times to make them easier to weave and be more reliable. In most of these cases, we have adjusted the damage as well in coordination with cast time adjustments to retain the DPS you’re used to in U21.

There will be a bunch of patch notes coming for PTS soon, so stay tuned! Thanks for reading gang, and if you’ve gotten this far, here’s a little sneak peek:

• Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
  • Carve: Retains the bleed; bleed damage increased by 25%. No longer grants Minor Heroism.
  • Brawler: Removed the bleed from this ability. Increased the Shield granted from this morph by 100% at base, but reduced the bonus scaling per target hit from 100% to 50%. This means at base this ability will be 100% stronger than before, and will be ~14% stronger than previously if you get the maximum bonus.

Please don’t nerf my nb 🙏

Iron_Blurr

Please take a look at how some skills gain none of the passives from their skill lines. Example is how veiled strike could benefit from the assassination passives and sounds like an assassination ability but it is in shadow for some reason.
Also look at how blur is in the assassination skill line despite it not being able to do any damage and so it does not gain the benefits of the passives.

I suggest these two abilities switch skill lines. The passives would make a lot more sense and it would be a nice quality of life change for nightblade dps and tanks.
Tanks could actually use the armor buffs and max health increase that blur would then provide. Nightblade dps could benefit from the extra crit and damage that veiled strike being in the Assination skill line could provide.
There are a few other skills like this in other class skill lines that just dont fit right in their skill lines and do not seem to fit in the context of the skill line passives and theme.

MashmalloMan

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

citats wrote: »

I think carve will need more than a 25% bleed damage increase to be anywhere close to the dw bleed ability....

I don't think the game needs an aoe rending slash.

Well thats exactly what the proposed change would do now wouldn't it.

This is without context involving other changes in their respective skill lines and a comparison of the proposed change on Carve VS current the Rending Slash.

(This isn't official, I made this with the +50% direct dmg and +25% bleed dmg and tooltips from https://eso-sets.com/)

MashmalloMan

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Please take a look at how some skills gain none of the passives from their skill lines. Example is how veiled strike could benefit from the assassination passives and sounds like an assassination ability but it is in shadow for some reason.
Also look at how blur is in the assassination skill line despite it not being able to do any damage and so it does not gain the benefits of the passives.

I suggest these two abilities switch skill lines. The passives would make a lot more sense and it would be a nice quality of life change for nightblade dps and tanks.
Tanks could actually use the armor buffs and max health increase that blur would then provide. Nightblade dps could benefit from the extra crit and damage that veiled strike being in the Assination skill line could provide.
There are a few other skills like this in other class skill lines that just dont fit right in their skill lines and do not seem to fit in the context of the skill line passives and theme.

Currently the skill is crazy overloaded. Surprise attack causes major fracture, gains major resolve, 3% max hp for being slotted, stuns and sets off balance from stealth all in a cheap class spammable.

This change would be a big nerf to their survivability with a small buff to their dps, hopefully what ZOS is looking to accomplish the way the OP describes future changes.

WardenOfTheExalted

Will Stam Sorcs have more access to stam sorc abilities? like some abilities will do Stamina instead of magic for more variety?

Epicasballs

All I want is stam frags, stam atro, and an instant cast resource skill for my stam Sorc. One morph of frags is useless and one morph of the atro adds more hp to the atro.... literal garbage morph no one uses. Please give stam sorcs something. Anything.

CurvedSwords123

Stamsorc nerfs incoming.

ochsinator

Just make ven claw a spammable to where you strike the enemy 3 times over 1 second and make it hit like a Mac truck just do it just do it.

vesselwiththepestle

Will Flurry be fixed?

If you are taking away Rending Slashes away from DK as spammable it would be nice to give us an usable alternative.

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

This is skill is raised up on the forums every 10-15 weeks or so. Why? Because it is the by far the most broken skill in the game.

This is the minimum number of problems with it.

• It does not proc enchants correctly.
• It does not calculate dmg correctly in the 3% compounding morph in all cases.
• It does not apply CP scaling correctly in the 3% compounding morph on the final hit.
• NOBODY can say what it "is" as a skill. It is a DOT+Channel with 7 meter range that is not a non-Melee attack.
• It is impossible to predict what the skill will proc or fail to proc for armor sets. How is it not a considered a Melee skill?
• Because it is a channel, it "self" interrupts. So if you try and get up close and personnel and spam/weave with it if you move around, dodge roll, block etc, you self interrupt the skill before it completes. If you want that last 300% Rapid Strikes hit you literally have to stand there <= 7 meters and not move for 0.6 secs. Can't block, LA weave, move or dodge and gain nothing for that penalty.
• It didn't work with the MA(?) weapons that were supposed to work with this skill for years.

I think I'm even forgetting more issues ...

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

From what i have read i'm hopeful but will reserve full judgement until we have it to test on PTS.

Hoping the skill updates will make some skills cheaper and/more effective.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Will Flurry be fixed?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441718/flurry-and-morphs-300-final-hit-not-scaling-correctly-from-percent-amps


Please ZOS.

chetter_hummin

suprise atack should lose major fracture. This should not have been there at all. pve damage is no diff, cause tanks have major fracture anyway. Any class that wants major fracture/breech have to slot a skill that does only the debuff and no or little damage. Stam NB only have major fracture in their spamable also their spammable proc major ward and major resolve, against any other class that have to slot a diff skill to get those buffs.
so remove major fracture from sNB spammable it s only logical choice to do. Ofc cyro having 70%+ sNB will qq to see their class nerfed, and dont even want to consider it s masively overperforming. Magicka NB dont get major breech from their spammable.

another stuff to balance to NB in general is Incap which is by far de most unbalanced ulti in this game. Cost only 72 ulti, does a lot of damage, debuffs with major defile, stuns and give the NB 20% more damage for 6 sec. I mean it s *** perfect. There is no other ulti with such many utility. I propose to keep the damage as it is but to remove major defile from it as the debuff is really strong paired with NB increase damage after casting the ultimate.

also I dont consider removing of minor berserk from NB a good move. the class identity kinda needs it and this method of nerfing NB damage will affect mag NB even more in pvp, basicly a masive 8% nerf to all their damage. Even though this nerf is not bad for stam NB, it will affect mag NB a lot. So I think keeping minor berserk for NB would be the best option to go. NB damage does no have to be nerfed, NB utility needs to get reworked with power debuffs such as defile and fracture.

the entire NB class seems to favor stam NB. Mag NB dont get major ward and major resolve and major breech just from using the class range spammable. Mag NB all atacks are projectiles so they gets so easy coun tered by dks. the idea of using concealed weapon on a mag Nb is a joke and a nerf, cause identity will be lost and they wont get the heal from swallow soul.
imo this should be adressed first, maybe make the mag NB spammable not a projectile and give mag NB same insane utlity as sNB have, or better remove those. for a class that have minor berserk build in their arsenal to get so easy defile and fracture is basicly ez mode compared to other classes that dont have berserk, that needs to slot a ability that do only defile and so on

marius_buys

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There will be a bunch of patch notes coming for PTS soon, so stay tuned! Thanks for reading gang, and if you’ve gotten this far, here’s a little sneak peek:

• Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
  • Carve: Retains the bleed; bleed damage increased by 25%. No longer grants Minor Heroism.
  • Brawler: Removed the bleed from this ability. Increased the Shield granted from this morph by 100% at base, but reduced the bonus scaling per target hit from 100% to 50%. This means at base this ability will be 100% stronger than before, and will be ~14% stronger than previously if you get the maximum bonus.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler I honestly hope that you have not buffed Stam classes into god mode, NB's spamming surprise attack "which should have a large cooldown after first use" and Stam DK requiring 10+ players before they are killed. It used to be 1vX and players now talk about 1vXV means that there is imbalance, not super good players.

marius_buys

All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

rafaelcsmaia

Yet another patch that they decide to change every single skill in the game at once, ending with a worse balance than before.

Seriously, do you guys even jenga? lmao

Varana

chetter_hummin wrote: »

Cost only 72 ulti, does a lot of damage, debuffs with major defile, stuns and give the NB 20% more damage for 6 sec.

It doesn't stun if you use it with 70 ulti; for the stun, you need 120.

olsborg

ezio45 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

anything about heavy meta?? O.O

Yea I second this, heavy meta is stronger then ever and for how many years now? Lets make light and medium armor gameplay just as good mkay..

FrancisCrawford

@ZOS_BrianWheeler,

I hope you guys are doing a tooltip pass as well. LOTS of tooltips have unclear or incomplete information. In a few cases, tooltips are downright wrong.

IxSTALKERxI

Sounds like you have been busy! Keep up the good work, sounds like some great changes to come not only this update but the updates to come.

Odovacar

Thanks for the candid update! We all cant wait!!!!

Its going to be agony for us console players to wait and watch during PTS

Stibbons

Just fix the skills that nobody uses in pve/pvp/wvw. Elite fixing is needed too. Remove all self stuns, free cc immunity givers that actually are 1/2 cc (templar skills) and useless elites.

Davadin

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Hey gang!here’s a little sneak peek:

• Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
  • Carve: Retains the bleed; bleed damage increased by 25%. No longer grants Minor Heroism.
  • Brawler: Removed the bleed from this ability. Increased the Shield granted from this morph by 100% at base, but reduced the bonus scaling per target hit from 100% to 50%. This means at base this ability will be 100% stronger than before, and will be ~14% stronger than previously if you get the maximum bonus.

As a stamDK that has Cleave or Brawler in his bar..........


....I'm getting a ***.

THANKS BRIAN!

Chiefwilliams

i keep seeing posts about DK wings getting changed... NB losing minor berserk.. etc.. where are these changes in writing? i cant seem to find them anywhere on forums.. i have searched PTS, combat and char mech, pvp/cyrodil forums and see only posts of people talking about the changes but cant find where there sources are

Davadin

marius_buys wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There will be a bunch of patch notes coming for PTS soon, so stay tuned! Thanks for reading gang, and if you’ve gotten this far, here’s a little sneak peek:

• Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
  • Carve: Retains the bleed; bleed damage increased by 25%. No longer grants Minor Heroism.
  • Brawler: Removed the bleed from this ability. Increased the Shield granted from this morph by 100% at base, but reduced the bonus scaling per target hit from 100% to 50%. This means at base this ability will be 100% stronger than before, and will be ~14% stronger than previously if you get the maximum bonus.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler I honestly hope that you have not buffed Stam classes into god mode, NB's spamming surprise attack "which should have a large cooldown after first use" and Stam DK requiring 10+ players before they are killed. It used to be 1vX and players now talk about 1vXV means that there is imbalance, not super good players.

yeaaaah that's not really the case, or at least not most of us.

Stam DK is at the BOTTOM of the food chain in Cyrodiil....... 1vX usually exists in youtube videos, and if you simply search 1vx ESO, please count how many of them is STAM DK....... (hint: it won't be a lot)

Davadin

just re-reading this post....

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In terms of quality of life changes, we’ve heard your feedback about cast times being difficult to incorporate into fluid combat/rotation, and have made adjustments to many abilities with cast times to make them easier to weave and be more reliable. In most of these cases, we have adjusted the damage as well in coordination with cast time adjustments to retain the DPS you’re used to in U21.

............oh please oh please oh please oh please tell me this includes Uppercut and its morphs.... @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ragnarock41

marius_buys wrote: »

All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.