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Update 22 Combat Direction

  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.
    Praetorian Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Kaalgrontiid
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Heavy SnB/2H The Ravenous
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Medium SnB/2H The Plague Bringer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Davadin wrote: »
    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.

    stamDK is carried nicely by heavy armor sets and abusing befoul. There is a good variety of every class in cyrodiil but most dominant ones are magsorcs and stamblades just as usual.
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    Davadin wrote: »
    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.

    stamDK is carried nicely by heavy armor sets and abusing befoul. There is a good variety of every class in cyrodiil but most dominant ones are magsorcs and stamblades just as usual.
    Actually only stamblades i see are gankers most used in cyrodiil tht I see and I play a lot is mag sorc stam and mag warden stam templar and mag templar and some stam dk
  • Canned_Apples
    Canned_Apples
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    Nerf snipe blades!
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    Nerf snipe blades!

    that's uncalled for and without true balance request.
    the bow and its skill line does less damage than the other weapons.
    people are prejudiced against bow.
    its not fair.
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    Davadin wrote: »
    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.

    stamDK is carried nicely by heavy armor sets and abusing befoul. There is a good variety of every class in cyrodiil but most dominant ones are magsorcs and stamblades just as usual.

    abusing befoul?

    sorry i dont follow... what?
    Praetorian Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Kaalgrontiid
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Heavy SnB/2H The Ravenous
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Medium SnB/2H The Plague Bringer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.

    stamDK is carried nicely by heavy armor sets and abusing befoul. There is a good variety of every class in cyrodiil but most dominant ones are magsorcs and stamblades just as usual.

    abusing befoul?

    sorry i dont follow... what?

    Do you even reverb bro?
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.

    stamDK is carried nicely by heavy armor sets and abusing befoul. There is a good variety of every class in cyrodiil but most dominant ones are magsorcs and stamblades just as usual.

    abusing befoul?

    sorry i dont follow... what?

    Do you even reverb bro?

    yes and befoul helps with that but what's the "abuse"?
    Praetorian Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Kaalgrontiid
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Heavy SnB/2H The Ravenous
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Medium SnB/2H The Plague Bringer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.

    stamDK is carried nicely by heavy armor sets and abusing befoul. There is a good variety of every class in cyrodiil but most dominant ones are magsorcs and stamblades just as usual.

    abusing befoul?

    sorry i dont follow... what?

    Do you even reverb bro?

    yes and befoul helps with that but what's the "abuse"?

    You can spam befouled reverb to basically cut almost half of your opponents healing. There are stamDk mains that hit reverb more than they hit you with any other skill.

    I call this an abuse , because cutting someone's healing by almost half doesn't exactly seem balanced to me. I realize CP time to kill is out of control and fights can last forever sometimes, but defile is not a solution. I would honestly remove befoul and make defiles unpurgeable so that they actually do their job and counter healers. But thats just me.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 10, 2019 2:17AM
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
    Carve: Retains the bleed; bleed damage increased by 25%. No longer grants Minor Heroism.
    Brawler: Removed the bleed from this ability. Increased the Shield granted from this morph by 100% at base, but reduced the bonus scaling per target hit from 100% to 50%. This means at base this ability will be 100% stronger than before, and will be ~14% stronger than previously if you get the maximum bonus.

    Good stuff. About time they start looking at under performing abilities, AND sets. Talking about sets, Earthgore is going from overpowered to useless. We don't need more useless sets, especially monster sets which are something you can tailor your play style around.

    Earthgore underpowered? That’s a new one. The only thing that set does is carry people in PvP and PvE and makes healers entirely irrelevant in some situations. There’s no argument for it unless your argument is that you want to be carried.
    Edited by Vapirko on April 10, 2019 8:23AM
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    Good stuff. About time they start looking at under performing abilities, AND sets. Talking about sets, Earthgore is going from overpowered to useless. We don't need more useless sets, especially monster sets which are something you can tailor your play style around.[/quote]

    Earthgore underpowered? That’s a new one. The only thing that set does is carry people in PvP and PvE and makes healers entirely irrelevant in some situations. There’s no argument for it unless your argument is that you want to be carried. [/quote]
    Completely agree here earthgore a massive carry saves players so much from my execute it’s so funny because half player that get saved by earthgore don’t even know what they are doing lmao 😂
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    i recently just earned the "mighty judans" mask and shoulder set and it was a really nice help in defence in both pvp and pve.
    but according to the few comments above this is something we should be ashamed of ?

    obviously it is not something we should be ashamed of!
    if we go out and earn a set and put it on as part of a build or use it to make our own build, then it is something we designed and a build we made that we should not be insulted for and not be made to feel shame about!
    the developers put those things in eso, those armor sets, skills, classes.
    they are the work of the developers, they have been balanced, they do that work and they do a good job of it, and in no way should anyone feel "ashamed or insulted" by using what the developers put into the game.
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • bpmachete
    bpmachete
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    On a NB sources of Major Fracture from Surprise Attack is completely different that Mark Target. Not many Stamina Builds have a Slot for
    Mark target and Mark target is a Ranged ability and also grants Major Breach while Surprise attack is the identity of the Stamblade. If you are thinking of reworking this type of duplicity the answer should be what can Mark target bring that buffs and brings something different. What people would want is a major breach on Concealed Weapon, and then bring something different to Mark target like Minor vulnerability for example.

    The morphs of Mark target are not so useful, that is an ability that could use some uniqueness. If otherwise you change the base skill all that will happen is you nerf the damage of 99% of the people.

    There is already talks of simply removing Minor Berserk to the entire class without any compensation, and doing multiple things that would lessen the effectiveness of it will just be damaging to the image of what it attempted to be accomplished. This class is controversial because not everyone likes the Assasin aspect in player vs player, but the class now functions the way it's intended, and the removal of many sources of damage will make it even less powerful and unable to do it's function, to be dangerous. The skill line name should be changed if there will be a removal of massive damage for just trying to have everything comform when not all the factors are being synchronized and just removes the effectiveness.
    Maybe rename Assasination to Boo Almost Hurt You skill line.

    If those changes goes through it would show how out of touch you are, and don't know how tanky people are in general and how all the damage is needed to just have a chance Vs decent players. To tell you the truth if I am on any other character (I have both Magic and Stam of all Classes) I try to be attacked by a Stamblade It is the easiest to counter and the damage of 99% of them even with Incap defile, Major Fracture, does not get through and We can tank and counter it easier than any other class. They need the damage.
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.

    stamDK is carried nicely by heavy armor sets and abusing befoul. There is a good variety of every class in cyrodiil but most dominant ones are magsorcs and stamblades just as usual.

    abusing befoul?

    sorry i dont follow... what?

    Do you even reverb bro?

    yes and befoul helps with that but what's the "abuse"?

    You can spam befouled reverb to basically cut almost half of your opponents healing. There are stamDk mains that hit reverb more than they hit you with any other skill.

    I call this an abuse , because cutting someone's healing by almost half doesn't exactly seem balanced to me. I realize CP time to kill is out of control and fights can last forever sometimes, but defile is not a solution. I would honestly remove befoul and make defiles unpurgeable so that they actually do their job and counter healers. But thats just me.

    LOL

    sorry i didn't even know this is a thing........

    at most Reverb cuts 40%. in no-CP BG, it's 30%.

    in CP world, this is so easily counteracted by increasing ur effective heal, heal crit, increase health regen.... come on... put on some Troll King, hit Vigor, and Befouled is meh...

    I slot it if I'm on my 1HS for the damage then stun. The heal reduce is just a bonus.

    Also, Vivec NA u can have multiple PC reverb a 1vX tank build with 100% uptime and the dude still walks around without breaking a sweat. ur only hope at that point is DK's Immobile and spamming Master DW.......


    "abuse" lol
    Praetorian Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Kaalgrontiid
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Heavy SnB/2H The Ravenous
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Medium SnB/2H The Plague Bringer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
  • egosumacunnus
    egosumacunnus
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    How about instead of that, you upgrade the servers and bandwidth so PvP, mail and using the guild stores are consistently fun.
    Edited by egosumacunnus on April 10, 2019 8:36PM
    If real life had a block function i would go out more.

    Proud to have spent a year paying to BETA test ESO for consoles.

    Error Code 301
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    How about instead of that, you upgrade the servers and bandwidth so PvP and using the guild stores are consistently fun.

    guild stores are completely fine for me. especially after Wrathstone. what's the issue?

    but agree on PvP lag.
    Praetorian Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Kaalgrontiid
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Heavy SnB/2H The Ravenous
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvP : Medium SnB/2H The Plague Bringer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
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    After today I don't even care anymore.
    Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |

    Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real
  • Joosef_Kivikilpi
    Joosef_Kivikilpi
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    This game changes entirely once a year lol. If I want to play a different game I'd just go buy one. Still I'm going to be cautiously optimistic. Sounds like it COULD be great, but I get the feeling it's just gonna be another across the board nerf to solo players. Please tell me theres a rework on snares coming? They are unbearable

    The retreating maneuvers nerd to no snare removal and reduce REALLY hot my Mageblade solo hard. My builds had a healthy amount if stamina so I could use it to escape, but it was a real risk to cast as well with its amount. I wish they would just add a solo version of it for half cost that did the same thing the old retreating maneuvers did with snare removal and immunity, or at least removal and a minor immunity like the other abilities do for 2-4 seconds.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    All I am saying is make sure the opponent has a counter to being stunned and have enough attack power to take down his attacker. Mag vs Stam is pretty much a one way street atm with stam winning 90% of the battles in 1v1. Which is why Cyrodiil is full of StamDK, Stam NB and Stamsorc.

    Last time I checked cyrodiil was a Zoo full of petsorcs. So this is what they call selective attention I guess.

    Probably more like StamNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, MagWarden, StamWarden, some kinda Templar, MagDk.......


    ......oh and a couple StamDK.

    stamDK is carried nicely by heavy armor sets and abusing befoul. There is a good variety of every class in cyrodiil but most dominant ones are magsorcs and stamblades just as usual.

    abusing befoul?

    sorry i dont follow... what?

    Do you even reverb bro?

    yes and befoul helps with that but what's the "abuse"?

    You can spam befouled reverb to basically cut almost half of your opponents healing. There are stamDk mains that hit reverb more than they hit you with any other skill.

    I call this an abuse , because cutting someone's healing by almost half doesn't exactly seem balanced to me. I realize CP time to kill is out of control and fights can last forever sometimes, but defile is not a solution. I would honestly remove befoul and make defiles unpurgeable so that they actually do their job and counter healers. But thats just me.

    LOL

    sorry i didn't even know this is a thing........

    at most Reverb cuts 40%. in no-CP BG, it's 30%.

    in CP world, this is so easily counteracted by increasing ur effective heal, heal crit, increase health regen.... come on... put on some Troll King, hit Vigor, and Befouled is meh...

    I slot it if I'm on my 1HS for the damage then stun. The heal reduce is just a bonus.

    Also, Vivec NA u can have multiple PC reverb a 1vX tank build with 100% uptime and the dude still walks around without breaking a sweat. ur only hope at that point is DK's Immobile and spamming Master DW.......


    "abuse" lol

    If you truly think that reverb is used for the damage instead of defile then this whole discussion is pointless. Ignorance is bless after all. You can have it.

    And the fact that people who don't stack major mending+major vitality and tons of different hots die to defile spam while crazy healing tanks&healers etc survive it is the exact reason why I called it abuse.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 11, 2019 4:25AM
  • ProbablePaul
    ProbablePaul
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    I'm hopeful for the future, the way the changes are being addressed and communicated is entirely different than it has been in the past. I get the sense that the creeping overhaul of the game is getting it back on the right track after it seemed to have lost it's way. I am sort of surprised by the number of negative responses... maybe people are still feeling the sustain changes that came with morrowind, and the fairly recent shield changes? Maybe.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself." - George Bernard Shaw

    Retired until performance issues are addressed.
  • alexoop
    alexoop
    Soul Shriven
    Leave DK wings reflect alone. MagDKs are already forced into melee range to use skills of any significance. And we still have no execute except Leap which is an ulti. Wings reflect is one of the skills that makes a DK playable and interesting. It isn’t a high DD class. It functions best in places where you can get right in the action and help your team. Wings reflect is huge in keeping you where you need to be. If you’re looking for redundant skills, getting rid of the magic reflection ability of Hardened/Volatile Armor would be a better compromise. The amount returned is minuscule anyways.
  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
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    For stamsorcs can we please have the daedric protection passive not need to have a skill slotted ? Needing to slot bound armaments front bar and atro backbar to get a passive feels really annoying, mainly because atro does nothing for us (in pvp) and bound armaments isn't good. Or just make atro have a stam morph so I don't need to waste an ult slot.


    PC EU

    No cp Stamsorc - Lee Russell
  • Kiithnaras
    Kiithnaras
    Soul Shriven
    Also, I think before you go auditing skills themselves, it probably would be better to finally address anim-cancelling.

    Full disclosure before git-gud spam responses inundate me: I can attack-weave pretty decently (that's not super hard), but I cannot bar-swap to save my bacon.

    It strikes me as odd that anim-cancelling would be so grossly disregarded. Past discussions also seem to focus on the actual animations and cancelling thereof, and skirt around the real issue - action-stacking. I also feel that the core combat code relies on animation timers to process mechanical combat functions - not a bad idea for appearances, but if not done perfectly...well, yeah. I personally wouldn't care if the animations get cancelled and overridden by other actions, but that a "skilled" player that abuses "approved" exploits like bar-swapping and roll-cancelling can easily double or triple the DPS or even burst-heals compared to the "casual scrub" is blindingly revolting.

    The solution, in my mind at least with my meager lowly coding experience, would be to institute what I've come to call a Global Action Cooldown (GAC). All skills and attacks would both be subject to and initiate this GAC, probably on the order of one-half to one second. Some weapons, like daggers, might have a shorter GAC value (and comparatively lower attack strength per hit), while two-handed weapons might have a longer GAC. Heavy attacks, being a kind of "soft" cast, would only trigger this GAC when the attack is actually triggered, either by reaching full charge or by releasing the attack button. The same would be true for skills with casting times, like Snipe or Volley - the GAC only initiates when the casting concludes. Channel skills, like Rite of Passage, would initiate the GAC immediately, allowing their effects to be interrupted and cancelled albeit at the loss of the remainder of the effects.

    Blocking, Bashing, Rolling, Break-free, and so forth would not be subject to this GAC, but since they don't affect it either, this wouldn't result in the ability to stack up actions, but neither would it result in the loss of the triggered action, mostly. I do feel that defensive actions should at least be delayed, however, until any Triggered action (e.g. pressing the button for a skill) actually Launches (e.g. fires its projectile, deals damage, or applies buffs/debuffs). Blocking et al would still interrupt casting and channelling, though, as normal.

    To counter the more structured nature of this, it would be helpful to have more reliable Action Queuing, where triggering another skill or attack before the GAC expires should place that action in queue to immediately trigger as soon as the GAC expires, but only one such action should be valid. For instance, quickly pressing LMB, LMB, 3 would start a light attack, queue another light attack, but then replace the un-triggered light attack in the queue with Skill 3.

    Overall, I feel this would lead to a more fluid and elegant flow of combat, particularly in PvP, and result in significantly less "cultist spasms."
  • Shokasegambit1
    Shokasegambit1
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    Can Stam Sorc have some uniqueness besides dark deal that 100% counterable lol
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    Can Stam Sorc have some uniqueness besides dark deal that 100% counterable lol

    @Shokasegambit1
    #stamnegate #airatronauch
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Unified_Gaming
    Unified_Gaming
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    Kiithnaras wrote: »
    Also, I think before you go auditing skills themselves, it probably would be better to finally address anim-cancelling.

    Full disclosure before git-gud spam responses inundate me: I can attack-weave pretty decently (that's not super hard), but I cannot bar-swap to save my bacon.

    It strikes me as odd that anim-cancelling would be so grossly disregarded. Past discussions also seem to focus on the actual animations and cancelling thereof, and skirt around the real issue - action-stacking. I also feel that the core combat code relies on animation timers to process mechanical combat functions - not a bad idea for appearances, but if not done perfectly...well, yeah. I personally wouldn't care if the animations get cancelled and overridden by other actions, but that a "skilled" player that abuses "approved" exploits like bar-swapping and roll-cancelling can easily double or triple the DPS or even burst-heals compared to the "casual scrub" is blindingly revolting.

    The solution, in my mind at least with my meager lowly coding experience, would be to institute what I've come to call a Global Action Cooldown (GAC). All skills and attacks would both be subject to and initiate this GAC, probably on the order of one-half to one second. Some weapons, like daggers, might have a shorter GAC value (and comparatively lower attack strength per hit), while two-handed weapons might have a longer GAC. Heavy attacks, being a kind of "soft" cast, would only trigger this GAC when the attack is actually triggered, either by reaching full charge or by releasing the attack button. The same would be true for skills with casting times, like Snipe or Volley - the GAC only initiates when the casting concludes. Channel skills, like Rite of Passage, would initiate the GAC immediately, allowing their effects to be interrupted and cancelled albeit at the loss of the remainder of the effects.

    Blocking, Bashing, Rolling, Break-free, and so forth would not be subject to this GAC, but since they don't affect it either, this wouldn't result in the ability to stack up actions, but neither would it result in the loss of the triggered action, mostly. I do feel that defensive actions should at least be delayed, however, until any Triggered action (e.g. pressing the button for a skill) actually Launches (e.g. fires its projectile, deals damage, or applies buffs/debuffs). Blocking et al would still interrupt casting and channelling, though, as normal.

    To counter the more structured nature of this, it would be helpful to have more reliable Action Queuing, where triggering another skill or attack before the GAC expires should place that action in queue to immediately trigger as soon as the GAC expires, but only one such action should be valid. For instance, quickly pressing LMB, LMB, 3 would start a light attack, queue another light attack, but then replace the un-triggered light attack in the queue with Skill 3.

    Overall, I feel this would lead to a more fluid and elegant flow of combat, particularly in PvP, and result in significantly less "cultist spasms."

    There is already a global cool down of 1 second between skills you can simply add a light attack and then a cancel afterwards but that's it and by which time you're into the second global cool down. As for queuing skills that kind of happens anyway if you time it right. As such, I'm unsure what you're wanting to be changed to be honest.
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  • IwakuraLain42
    IwakuraLain42
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    Kiithnaras wrote: »
    Also, I think before you go auditing skills themselves, it probably would be better to finally address anim-cancelling.

    Full disclosure before git-gud spam responses inundate me: I can attack-weave pretty decently (that's not super hard), but I cannot bar-swap to save my bacon.

    It strikes me as odd that anim-cancelling would be so grossly disregarded. Past discussions also seem to focus on the actual animations and cancelling thereof, and skirt around the real issue - action-stacking. I also feel that the core combat code relies on animation timers to process mechanical combat functions - not a bad idea for appearances, but if not done perfectly...well, yeah. I personally wouldn't care if the animations get cancelled and overridden by other actions, but that a "skilled" player that abuses "approved" exploits like bar-swapping and roll-cancelling can easily double or triple the DPS or even burst-heals compared to the "casual scrub" is blindingly revolting.

    The solution, in my mind at least with my meager lowly coding experience, would be to institute what I've come to call a Global Action Cooldown (GAC). All skills and attacks would both be subject to and initiate this GAC, probably on the order of one-half to one second. Some weapons, like daggers, might have a shorter GAC value (and comparatively lower attack strength per hit), while two-handed weapons might have a longer GAC. Heavy attacks, being a kind of "soft" cast, would only trigger this GAC when the attack is actually triggered, either by reaching full charge or by releasing the attack button. The same would be true for skills with casting times, like Snipe or Volley - the GAC only initiates when the casting concludes. Channel skills, like Rite of Passage, would initiate the GAC immediately, allowing their effects to be interrupted and cancelled albeit at the loss of the remainder of the effects.

    Blocking, Bashing, Rolling, Break-free, and so forth would not be subject to this GAC, but since they don't affect it either, this wouldn't result in the ability to stack up actions, but neither would it result in the loss of the triggered action, mostly. I do feel that defensive actions should at least be delayed, however, until any Triggered action (e.g. pressing the button for a skill) actually Launches (e.g. fires its projectile, deals damage, or applies buffs/debuffs). Blocking et al would still interrupt casting and channelling, though, as normal.

    To counter the more structured nature of this, it would be helpful to have more reliable Action Queuing, where triggering another skill or attack before the GAC expires should place that action in queue to immediately trigger as soon as the GAC expires, but only one such action should be valid. For instance, quickly pressing LMB, LMB, 3 would start a light attack, queue another light attack, but then replace the un-triggered light attack in the queue with Skill 3.

    Overall, I feel this would lead to a more fluid and elegant flow of combat, particularly in PvP, and result in significantly less "cultist spasms."

    There is already a global cool down of 1 second between skills you can simply add a light attack and then a cancel afterwards but that's it and by which time you're into the second global cool down. As for queuing skills that kind of happens anyway if you time it right. As such, I'm unsure what you're wanting to be changed to be honest.

    If you light attack weave you have an effective 0.45 sec GCD which is really hard to control. If I understand the proposal correctly this would mean that both skills and LAs share the same GCD.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Kiithnaras wrote: »
    I personally wouldn't care if the animations get cancelled and overridden by other actions, but that a "skilled" player that abuses "approved" exploits like bar-swapping and roll-cancelling can easily double or triple the DPS or even burst-heals compared to the "casual scrub" is blindingly revolting.

    I don't think you understand how the GCD or instant cast skills work. There's a reason they're called instant, no matter the animation, the effect happens relatively instantly and it's why the animations can be canceled without consequence. That doesn't double or triple your dps. You're still tied to a 1 second GCD, you CAN'T cast 3 instant skills within 1 second, it will take at least 3 seconds.

    Light/heavy attacks have their own cooldown and it's why you can cast them before abilities, skills cancel the animation of the light/heavy attack. This amounts to about 1.1 second rotations on average since using a light attack and a skill is actually a little longer than the 1 sec GCD without animation cancelling the skills.

    Different skills have different animation timers even if they're instant, light/heavy attacks do NOT cancel skill animations. Block/Bash/Dodge/Weapon Swap DO. A skill like Betty Netch from warden has a very long animation. It is better used right before a Weapon Swap because that feels natural and easy to do, it doesn't require much thought, you just cast the skill last on your bar.

    Animation cancelling can NOT double or triple your dps, the closest instance would be using Bash after abilities which is honestly extremely rare, good on the people able to do it effectively, I honestly don't bother and the small dps gain they get from expending more stamina isn't worth it to me.

    Casting Vigor in to roll dodge is perfectly acceptable and is no way "revolting". It's what adds a skill cap to pvp. It's also why there are abilities that work against dodging or blocking, etc. Know what skills to use to counter your enemy. Your suggestion of a Global Action Cooldown just sounds boring quite honestly. It's under the same cry's of people wanting to remove weaving because that's exactly what it would do.

    If you need to wait 0.5-1 second after a light/heavy attack it no longer becomes worth using when skills have actual effects and it would slow down the combat tremendously.

    Lastly your proposal will not be considered. ZOS has fully endorsed the combat system THEY made. They've gone as far as adding tips about weaving through out the leveling up process. You don't fundamentally change the combat system 5 years in to development when it's not necessary.
    There is already a global cool down of 1 second between skills you can simply add a light attack and then a cancel afterwards but that's it and by which time you're into the second global cool down. As for queuing skills that kind of happens anyway if you time it right. As such, I'm unsure what you're wanting to be changed to be honest.

    This 100% already happens. Try casting snipe or flurry, if you press light attack shortly before the channel finishes it still light attacks. The system is very forgiving and it just takes practice to learn. If a channel takes 1 sec, you can probably light attack at 0.8 seconds for it to still register.

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  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    alexoop wrote: »
    Leave DK wings reflect alone. MagDKs are already forced into melee range to use skills of any significance. And we still have no execute except Leap which is an ulti. Wings reflect is one of the skills that makes a DK playable and interesting. It isn’t a high DD class. It functions best in places where you can get right in the action and help your team. Wings reflect is huge in keeping you where you need to be. If you’re looking for redundant skills, getting rid of the magic reflection ability of Hardened/Volatile Armor would be a better compromise. The amount returned is minuscule anyways.

    All of that could be true, but you're not addressing the reason why wings are being changed in the first place: they completely shut down entire classes! If they only reflected ONE projectile per cast like that S&B skill, it would be tolerable, but the way it works now makes playing a mag sorc against a DK really tiresome. You can't stun them with Reach or hit them with Frags and all the other Sorc abilities (except pets) are really weak. Then you start running a pet build to build pressure, but when you come to the forums everyone is complaining about pets and begging for pet nerfs, LOL.

    Edited by Emma_Overload on April 14, 2019 9:57PM
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