Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Other.

I do not see how is P2W buying Skyshards you have opened on your main character.
If you do not want to splash money, nothing stops anyone to go and pick the skyshards tbh

TheForseti

No it's not P2W.

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Thank you captain obvious. But there are a million and 1 ways to level a character in one day. Some don't even involve combat. Buying skill points means your character can go right from the dolmens and into trials, putting no effort into your character. This is Pay To Win. It allows you to put zero effort into a new character.

You would still have to level all skills, undaunted, armor skill lines, alliance war rank, vampire/werewolf, fighters guild, mages guild, psijic order, dark brotherhood, soul magic, legerdemian, thieves guild, crafting skill lines, etc. for the character and get the character to level 50. Plus, even getting into a trial instantly doesn't mean you will be successful in that trial. You will still require the necessary skill to clear the content.

rotaugen454

No it's not P2W.

Jhalin wrote: »

It’s using money to circumvent gameplay, the same as it’d be to make gear sets in the crown store

It is pay to win

You do not buy these things to obtain them like you do riding lessons or bag space, they are rewards for gameplay. They should never be made available for direct purchase, much less exclusively a cash purchase

The “gameplay” involves getting on your horse, riding around a zone collecting them, then going to the next zone. I’ve done this on new characters and got what I needed while avoiding all combat. This is pure convenience.

CassandraGemini

Other.

xaraan wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

I am not please with this at all. This is no longer pay for convenience, this is Pay To Win.This is adding actual power to your character. They won't be getting any money for this from me, nor anymore sub money.

@ManwithBeard9, I guess ZoS should take away all Champion Points from everyone's characters that did not earn those points.

Did you buy them for your other characters? No, you didn't. You are literally buying skill points with this proposition. If this goes live, you'll see max level necros running around day 1 only needing some XP for skill lines.

So, your only problem with it, is that it is in the crown store? Because Champion Points absolutely give an advantage but skill points do not.

Skill points do.

You can buy passives with them that you normally cannot. Passives give power. You can buy skills with them you normally cannot, they give power and options.

WHICH I don't think matters too much looking at max level characters, but I think they should only allow people to purchase skyshard clears on a character that is already level 50. I don't lowbie pvp really, but I feel for the guy that comes across a level 10 that has ten times as many things open for his build than most others just b/c he paid for it.

But you do realize that no matter how many skyshards - and through that skill points - someone potentially has to spend, they will still have to unlock the respective skills first, which happens when they reach certain levels and not just by having unused skill points... right?

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

It’s using money to circumvent gameplay, the same as it’d be to make gear sets in the crown store

It is pay to win

You do not buy these things to obtain them like you do riding lessons or bag space, they are rewards for gameplay. They should never be made available for direct purchase, much less exclusively a cash purchase

The “gameplay” involves getting on your horse, riding around a zone collecting them, then going to the next zone. I’ve done this on new characters and got what I needed while avoiding all combat. This is pure convenience.

No, it’s gameplay. Just because you find it dull does not mean it isn’t gameplay. It’s not a direct purchase being given another direct purchase option, it’s a gameplay reward being awarded for cash

Going to the locations means you are exploring the game world. If things continue along this path eventually there will be no need to play the game, they’ll spit out maxed characters to anyone who can shell out money. This is giving the go ahead to award skill lines fully leveled, gear bought with money instead of through clearing content.

Meanwhile just like we’ve seen with Welkynar, they will make it as frustrating and difficult as possible to obtain ingame as they can, in order to push it to the crown store and still claim its “available in game”. It’s damn near impossible for most players to do nCR+3, forget vCR+3 just to get fragments for a roll at RNG. And because it’s “available in game” even through such convoluted, needlessly difficult methods for just pieces, ZOS can put it in the pool for master writs. Due to dropping it in the store the exact moment as it was made a fragment in-game, raiders can’t even make fair money off of it because crownstore gifting is a thing that hardcaps the value of the motif.

This is a player-hostile road we’re going down, where you will only be able to keep up if you’re able and willing to shell out money. You can claim it’s all about convenience, but this is a direct advantage being provided that cannot be matched by any source ingame. Nothing will give you an entire zone of skyshards in a click.

Shantu

No it's not P2W.

Don't know what's so desirable about repeating the same content over and over and over, ad nauseam, just to level new characters. All this does is save a considerable amount of grind. Inheriting CP doesn't make you any better at "winning" in dungeons, trials, etc. In granting access to Skyshards already achieved on another character, the only thing "won" is a chunk of life back that would be invested in mind-numbing, repetitious nonsense. If you feel endless repetition builds character, then by all means indulge yourself. But for those who would pay not to, it's a good thing, and nobody's business but our own.

Myrkgrav

Jhalin wrote: »

This is a player-hostile road we’re going down, where you will only be able to keep up if you’re able and willing to shell out money. You can claim it’s all about convenience, but this is a direct advantage being provided that cannot be matched by any source ingame. Nothing will give you an entire zone of skyshards in a click.

This is so histrionic.

srfrogg23

No it's not P2W.

I wouldn't say "pay2win", per se. I don't think simply having excessive skill points as soon as you create a character is going to help win in the competitive aspects of the game.

It is, however, a bit "cash-grab-y" and, imo, a good way to compromise the integrity of why skyshards exist in the first place...

Not a fan, but at least other people's impatience will fund the development of more content for me.

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

Myrkgrav wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

This is a player-hostile road we’re going down, where you will only be able to keep up if you’re able and willing to shell out money. You can claim it’s all about convenience, but this is a direct advantage being provided that cannot be matched by any source ingame. Nothing will give you an entire zone of skyshards in a click.

This is so histrionic.

By all means tell me where the line is drawn then. ZOS has been pushing it slowly. First with Warden (removal of Minor Toughness from any basegame source), then jewelycrafting, the intentionally bothersome Welkynar motif, now circumventing gameplay to give combat effectiveness.

Would you let it slide if gear starts being made available for cash? Perfected weapons? Trial skins? PBE geared template characters with everything maxed already?

Where’s your line exactly? Or are you going to keep insisting all that is fine when gameplay made optional

Monsieur

Yes it's P2W.

Maybe I’m just old, but back in my day we actually played games, instead of watching others play games then paying the publishers to skip playing parts of the game.

Myrkgrav

Jhalin wrote: »

By all means tell me where the line is drawn then. ZOS has been pushing it slowly. First with Warden (removal of Minor Toughness from any basegame source), then jewelycrafting, the intentionally bothersome Welkynar motif, now circumventing gameplay to give combat effectiveness.

Would you let it slide if gear starts being made available for cash? Perfected weapons? Trial skins? PBE geared template characters with everything maxed already?

Where’s your line exactly? Or are you going to keep insisting all that is fine when gameplay made optional

My line is exactly what you're stating. When they start doing that stuff, then it's worth getting upset about. Not everyone has time to sit on this game 24/7. If they want to spend their money in exchange for time, that's their prerogative.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Why does it strike me that there are a lot of ESO players that simply do not get that the average "human" simply does not have the time to put in the 100's of hours required farming this or that (including shards) on every single character they do every single time they create a character as they actually have lives.

I would so welcome it if I was able to purchase shards or lore books or whatever through the crown store that would be usable only after I completed whatever requirements were needed in the game without having to spend so much time farming.

Most of us have limited time and put in a lot of dedication and work on a single character to max them out (which can take many hundreds of hours to do) and really, really don't want to go through it again.

Sure, you may get the skill points, but I don't think anyone is asking for a hand out, just a break from the endless time-suck that all this farming takes so that we can actually have lives.

I would love to be able to stay home almost every day and spend 8-10 hours playing ESO, but that simply isn't a reality.

FleetwoodSmack

No it's not P2W.

Myrkgrav wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

By all means tell me where the line is drawn then. ZOS has been pushing it slowly. First with Warden (removal of Minor Toughness from any basegame source), then jewelycrafting, the intentionally bothersome Welkynar motif, now circumventing gameplay to give combat effectiveness.

Would you let it slide if gear starts being made available for cash? Perfected weapons? Trial skins? PBE geared template characters with everything maxed already?

Where’s your line exactly? Or are you going to keep insisting all that is fine when gameplay made optional

My line is exactly what you're stating. When they start doing that stuff, then it's worth getting upset about. Not everyone has time to sit on this game 24/7. If they want to spend their money in exchange for time, that's their prerogative.

Not only that, people are acting like it's granting them an instantly leveled out character. It really isn't. I'm also guessing that this was made for console players in mind because they don't have access to add-ons. I'm not going to buy them, but it's like... I'm not bothered by it. Oh someone has skillpoints faster than me? Okay. How does this affect me? It doesn't. It doesn't in PvE. It doesn't in PvP. "OH BUT FULLY LEVELED NEKROMANCURZ". So? They can blow the bank on it if they want. They still have to level it out.

IzzyStardust

Yes it's P2W.

It kinda is, but I also don’t care that it is. *shrugs*

IzzyStardust

Yes it's P2W.

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully the other stuff will follow. Skill lines, exploration, mount training.......

You can already buy mount training.

Oathunbound

No it's not P2W.

I'm really confused as to people seeing this as a p2w gimmick. Cash grab? Oh yea, but p2w no. The thing is, sp unlocks skills, that's it. It doesn't make my skills I unlock that way stronger vs the grindy way, that is p2w.

Also the agrument that this how the game is saposed to be played is also suggestible at best. Playing all zones and getting all the shards and quests done make it for me personally boring to do again because its the same story and content, sure i can pick a few diffrent paths but ultimately its the same thing different toon.

Tho I am actually committed to making a new mag necro my second "main" character so I'll be redoing the areas again for the quests so I'll be getting the shards the grindy way again, but on my PvP toons I just get enough to fill out their builds and call it a day.

Ultimately I'm concerned about the price and whether its account wide or per toon, and per zone achievement. If so the only one worth unlocking is cryodill due to the 4 shards locked behind the gates that need to forced open to get making them potentially very difficult to obtain. The rest are just a time sink.

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

Myrkgrav wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

By all means tell me where the line is drawn then. ZOS has been pushing it slowly. First with Warden (removal of Minor Toughness from any basegame source), then jewelycrafting, the intentionally bothersome Welkynar motif, now circumventing gameplay to give combat effectiveness.

Would you let it slide if gear starts being made available for cash? Perfected weapons? Trial skins? PBE geared template characters with everything maxed already?

Where’s your line exactly? Or are you going to keep insisting all that is fine when gameplay made optional

My line is exactly what you're stating. When they start doing that stuff, then it's worth getting upset about. Not everyone has time to sit on this game 24/7. If they want to spend their money in exchange for time, that's their prerogative.

Everyone condoning this behavior is paving the path.

Skyshards are combat power just like gear is. Just like skill lines and character levels are.

Unlocking locations on the map after finding them on one character would be great for consoles, and that is as far as “accountwide skyshards” ever needs to go. Same with lorebooks. These leveling requirements exist to keep people in the game space in public instances. It’s unhealthy for a game to have progression be a wallet transaction, where no one but pure newbies are actually playing to progress.

FleetwoodSmack

No it's not P2W.

Oathunbound wrote: »

I'm really confused as to people seeing this as a p2w gimmick. Cash grab? Oh yea, but p2w no. The thing is, sp unlocks skills, that's it. It doesn't make my skills I unlock that way stronger vs the grindy way, that is p2w.

Also the agrument that this how the game is saposed to be played is also suggestible at best. Playing all zones and getting all the shards and quests done make it for me personally boring to do again because its the same story and content, sure i can pick a few diffrent paths but ultimately its the same thing different toon.

Tho I am actually committed to making a new mag necro my second "main" character so I'll be redoing the areas again for the quests so I'll be getting the shards the grindy way again, but on my PvP toons I just get enough to fill out their builds and call it a day.

Ultimately I'm concerned about the price and whether its account wide or per toon, and per zone achievement. If so the only one worth unlocking is cryodill due to the 4 shards locked behind the gates that need to forced open to get making them potentially very difficult to obtain. The rest are just a time sink.

Yeah, I've been tempted to post about the shards locked behind the gates. It's not exactly hard to get those at night, but it's hard to get groups to help you do this. Even more so if there's an enemy night guild running. So it's a lot of waiting for the opportunity of those gates opening and getting those shards.

Bouldercleave

Yes it's P2W.

I do like the fact that you could create a minimum adventure level, max crafting only character. If I could have done that from day one, I would have been a very happy camper.

I feel that it is a P2W precursor more than anything. It starts with SP, then eventually grows into a much bigger monster.

I guess we shall see - I feel it is taking a turn into dangerous waters though. The game is obviously evolving and some of it is going to be good and some isn't.

If the cost is prohibitive to many, that could cause a different issue. I feel if they do something like this it needs to ba accessible to the masses.

Iarao

Yes it's P2W.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Pay2win or not....its VERY cash grabby and VERY player unfriendly...i honestly didnt expect zos would sink to EA levels

i would rather they charge everyone a minimal amt like 5 usd a month to play

kojou

Lorebooks was always a worse grind IMO.

karekiz

No it's not P2W.

Skyshards aren't combat power.

I read a post on the forums that said you get all you need just by leveling up with only a couple more to find.

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

karekiz wrote: »

Skyshards aren't combat power.

I read a post on the forums that said you get all you need just by leveling up with only a couple more to find.

Skill points are most definitely combat power

Facefister

Yes it's P2W.

Myrkgrav wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

By all means tell me where the line is drawn then. ZOS has been pushing it slowly. First with Warden (removal of Minor Toughness from any basegame source), then jewelycrafting, the intentionally bothersome Welkynar motif, now circumventing gameplay to give combat effectiveness.

Would you let it slide if gear starts being made available for cash? Perfected weapons? Trial skins? PBE geared template characters with everything maxed already?

Where’s your line exactly? Or are you going to keep insisting all that is fine when gameplay made optional

My line is exactly what you're stating. When they start doing that stuff, then it's worth getting upset about. Not everyone has time to sit on this game 24/7. If they want to spend their money in exchange for time, that's their prerogative.

I don't have time for trials, but I want trial equipment. I can pay in cash.

ArenGesus

No it's not P2W.

Facefister wrote: »

Myrkgrav wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

By all means tell me where the line is drawn then. ZOS has been pushing it slowly. First with Warden (removal of Minor Toughness from any basegame source), then jewelycrafting, the intentionally bothersome Welkynar motif, now circumventing gameplay to give combat effectiveness.

Would you let it slide if gear starts being made available for cash? Perfected weapons? Trial skins? PBE geared template characters with everything maxed already?

Where’s your line exactly? Or are you going to keep insisting all that is fine when gameplay made optional

My line is exactly what you're stating. When they start doing that stuff, then it's worth getting upset about. Not everyone has time to sit on this game 24/7. If they want to spend their money in exchange for time, that's their prerogative.

I don't have time for trials, but I want trial equipment. I can pay in cash.

Have you already earned it once? Congratulations! It's already available account-wide! We did it guys!

FleetwoodSmack

No it's not P2W.

ArenGesus wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Myrkgrav wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

By all means tell me where the line is drawn then. ZOS has been pushing it slowly. First with Warden (removal of Minor Toughness from any basegame source), then jewelycrafting, the intentionally bothersome Welkynar motif, now circumventing gameplay to give combat effectiveness.

Would you let it slide if gear starts being made available for cash? Perfected weapons? Trial skins? PBE geared template characters with everything maxed already?

Where’s your line exactly? Or are you going to keep insisting all that is fine when gameplay made optional

My line is exactly what you're stating. When they start doing that stuff, then it's worth getting upset about. Not everyone has time to sit on this game 24/7. If they want to spend their money in exchange for time, that's their prerogative.

I don't have time for trials, but I want trial equipment. I can pay in cash.

Have you already earned it once? Congratulations! It's already available account-wide! We did it guys!

Then they'll say that the extra bank space/inventory slots in the crown store are P2W because they can't hold all of them sets!

RogueShark

No it's not P2W.

Nah.
Doesn't give you any huge advantage over anyone else because you had to get them on another character already, and... anyone can go get skyshards without much effort. All it does is save time.
Paying for gear/abilities/etc that are superior to what you can find in game, HAVING to spend money to "win", that is literally the definition of pay to win. Paying money to be able to compete/beat other people.
Seems like anymore these days people want to scream "PAY TO WIN!!!" if you can shortcut through drudgery and boredom and are only paying to be lazy.

Iarao

Yes it's P2W.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Paying to make something you already have account-wide? Nah, not P2W.

If it were paying for skyshards you don't have, it'd be closer.


Still a bit cheesy, and nothing I'd ever pay for, but not P2W.


(do the people voting "p2w" think the same thing about games that let you get character level boosts, as long as you have one max-level character?)

i think that was done because THAT is a real grind due to how many xp you need at that point. getting skyshards really isnt a grind.

Iarao

Yes it's P2W.

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

You dont get any combat advantage over others for purchasing it, you only pay for convenience.

3 shards = 1 skillpoint. skillpoints are used to buy abilities. abilities are what is used for combat. even if you have to have them on one of your toons, the OTHERS get combat bennies via paying, and for something that isnt really that hard to get, except pvp ones.

Karius_Imalthar

Other.

The game has gotten more and more expansive over time. This is only a catch-up mechanic.