Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

Mojmir

No it's not P2W.

So much reaching to grasp that straw.

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

Iarao wrote: »

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MyNameIsElias wrote: »

You dont get any combat advantage over others for purchasing it, you only pay for convenience.

3 shards = 1 skillpoint. skillpoints are used to buy abilities. abilities are what is used for combat. even if you have to have them on one of your toons, the OTHERS get combat bennies via paying, and for something that isnt really that hard to get, except pvp ones.

You said so yourself, it isn't hard to get, then how is it p2w? Of you keep calling everything p2w, you'll just sound like politicians that call any bad news the "fake news". You know you're being silly, you just say it for the sake of saying it. The word loses ts meaning. Wanna see p2w? Go play a Korean MMO. Come back here after you see what p2w means for real.

zaria

No it's not P2W.

RusevCrush wrote: »

Can i have the flawless i earned on my one bar sorc copied over to all my alts?
I want lorebooks undaunted psyjic and every other grind on my alts as well.

Lorebooks and psyjic might be on the table.
Flawless: no as it implies skills. farming delves does not require skills it just make it a bit faster.
You could have trash alts, classes you have no idea how to do with leftover gear.
I have some who I would never put into an vet dungeon.

Facefister

Yes it's P2W.

ArenGesus wrote: »

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Facefister wrote: »

Myrkgrav wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

By all means tell me where the line is drawn then. ZOS has been pushing it slowly. First with Warden (removal of Minor Toughness from any basegame source), then jewelycrafting, the intentionally bothersome Welkynar motif, now circumventing gameplay to give combat effectiveness.

Would you let it slide if gear starts being made available for cash? Perfected weapons? Trial skins? PBE geared template characters with everything maxed already?

Where’s your line exactly? Or are you going to keep insisting all that is fine when gameplay made optional

My line is exactly what you're stating. When they start doing that stuff, then it's worth getting upset about. Not everyone has time to sit on this game 24/7. If they want to spend their money in exchange for time, that's their prerogative.

I don't have time for trials, but I want trial equipment. I can pay in cash.

Have you already earned it once? Congratulations! It's already available account-wide! We did it guys!

I am talking about sets I don't have. By your definition it isn't p2w to buy a complete set on the store since I've finished once and people who don't want to pay can still farm it.

Starlock

Yes it's P2W.

Jhalin wrote: »

This is a player-hostile road we’re going down, where you will only be able to keep up if you’re able and willing to shell out money. You can claim it’s all about convenience, but this is a direct advantage being provided that cannot be matched by any source ingame. Nothing will give you an entire zone of skyshards in a click.

Yup. As you mention later, though, in many respects this is nothing new. It is also something that is, unfortunately, to be expected of always online titles. Unlike classic single player games that are offline only, there has to be a revenue stream to support continued development. Companies have handled that in various ways, and consumers react to it with equal variety.

Personally, I sorely miss the days where all games were released not only in an operational state out of the box, but had few if any subsequent microtransactions. And if there were downloadable contents added, they were substantive and priced reasonably. Elder Scrolls Online has not followed that path since its inception. Crown store purchases have always (with the exception of content DLCs like thieves guild) been outrageously overpriced, even if one purchases crowns on sale. Instead of making things available in-game, they find ways to charge money for it. This "buy skyshards" move is another monetization scheme. The worst part is it'll work because consumers have gotten normalized to this sort of thing. There's abundant evidence of that in this thread.

It won't stop here. If they allow "buy skyshards" there is no reason to not allow "buy max skill line" or "buy max CP" or "buy set gear" for crowns (among other things).

The saving grace will be if the "buy skyshards" has an in-game earning mechanism. But from what we've heard, it won't.

Lloydmp

Other.

Jesus Iv only been waiting for something like this since launch. I bloody hate the skyshard farm!

Iarao

Yes it's P2W.

Zaketh wrote: »

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Goren wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Being first at something doesn't mean winning over other players though unless it's a race to be first at everything. In which case... XP scrolls.

Well then what is your definition of P2W?

For me, it is a cash exclusive purchase: Somethin you can not get in game by playing, but ONLY with irl money

that also applies to a lot of stuff in the store: some houses, some mounts, some pets, and etc. and i dont like that at all.

Facefister

Yes it's P2W.

Starlock wrote: »

[...]It won't stop here. If they allow "buy skyshards" there is no reason to not allow "buy max skill line" or "buy max CP" or "buy set gear" for crowns (among other things).[...]

It's a logical step buisness wise. As soon as this gets remotely successful those steps will follow.

Mettaricana

Normally against p2w but im all on board for this as well as talk of skill lines being bought 1 or 2 characters its fine but on your 13th character you get sick to death of skyshard hunting and skill hunting... i already know what i wamna do with the character otherwise i wouldn't have made them im so over skyshard hunting

mattaeus01b16_ESO

Yes it's P2W.

Soooo, i played my character through EP. Got all the skyshards. Have to other toons that i leveled on other factions, but just the base zones. Achieved the "Achievements"... so in turn, i can pay to have my Characters, given the skyshards, that the others have unlocked? Withought the effort? Then can I buy a level 50 toon, and buy gear pacts as well? (But of course, only gear that Iv collected before). Oh but damn! My toon isnt meta anymore. Thats okay! Cause i can just delete it, make a new toon. Pay some corporate stiff another 50 bucks...or 100... and BAMN! No work, all play.

HEY ZOS, I WANT MY LIFETIME PLAY BACK!!

Dojohoda

Yes it's P2W.

Despite my vote, it's not pay to win, but it's lazy, insanely lazy and convenient. It's not hard to get shards; it is just kind of boring if you've done it 15 times already.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Dojohoda wrote: »

Despite my vote, it's not pay to win, but it's lazy, insanely lazy and convenient. It's not hard to get shards; it is just kind of boring if you've done it 15 times already.

Yup. I love being AWESOMELY LAZY!

Alienoutlaw

Other.

i dont think we should have to pay for something we have already taken the time to do in game, regardless of the idea behind it it is still locking our own achievments behind a pay wall

CassandraGemini

Other.

Starlock wrote: »

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Jhalin wrote: »

This is a player-hostile road we’re going down, where you will only be able to keep up if you’re able and willing to shell out money. You can claim it’s all about convenience, but this is a direct advantage being provided that cannot be matched by any source ingame. Nothing will give you an entire zone of skyshards in a click.

The saving grace will be if the "buy skyshards" has an in-game earning mechanism. But from what we've heard, it won't.

Erm... but I thought the "earning mechanism" was that you needed to have the zone achievements for skyshards on at least one character? Or did I not get that right?

Tandor

No it's not P2W.

getemshauna wrote: »

You don't understand meaning of P2W. Even if they would add vMA weapons to Crown Store, it still won't be P2W.

Agreed, and it's amazing some players still don't get it. Given your example, what would make it P2W would be if the vMA weapons in the Crown Store had slightly better stats than the ones you got from playing the game.

Mr_Walker

This still going? Anyone who answered yes, be embrassed you don't know what p2w means.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Yes it's P2W.

all I asked was ACCOUNT WIDE achievement scores...so we the people who dont care about having 14/14 chars can actually have a reason to make alts...instead we got this...if u can get skillpoints via crown store...screw it why not just put class change in crown store as well? at this point what does it matter? we already have race change/gender change/name change...only thing missing is class change and alliance change.

Cernow

Other.

It's not P2W but it is greedy.

Skyshards should be account wide. They are a tedious grind if you have a lot of alts. Plenty of players have repeatedly requested making them account wide.

Making this possible via the Crown Store is just a grubby cash grab. Sadly, this seems par for the course now with ESO.

SteveCampsOut

No it's not P2W.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Pay2win or not....its VERY cash grabby and VERY player unfriendly...i honestly didnt expect zos would sink to EA levels

Then you haven't been paying attention to the things ZOS has been doing with the crown store at all.

Sennecca

No it's not P2W.

It's paying to save time. Nothing that couldn't be done in game and that already hasn't been done at least once. No weapon, skill or advantage that someone who doesn't pay and takes more time to do couldn't have. For those of you who have played other games...i remember one where you had to have an achievement on one character for all of your characters to be able to fly. People have to be willing to spend real world money for the "skyshard transfer" instead of grinding a lot of time into "flying transfer". No combat advantage, just time invested decreased.

Ertosi

Yes it's P2W.

CassandraGemini wrote: »

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xaraan wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

I am not please with this at all. This is no longer pay for convenience, this is Pay To Win.This is adding actual power to your character. They won't be getting any money for this from me, nor anymore sub money.

@ManwithBeard9, I guess ZoS should take away all Champion Points from everyone's characters that did not earn those points.

Did you buy them for your other characters? No, you didn't. You are literally buying skill points with this proposition. If this goes live, you'll see max level necros running around day 1 only needing some XP for skill lines.

So, your only problem with it, is that it is in the crown store? Because Champion Points absolutely give an advantage but skill points do not.

Skill points do.

You can buy passives with them that you normally cannot. Passives give power. You can buy skills with them you normally cannot, they give power and options.

WHICH I don't think matters too much looking at max level characters, but I think they should only allow people to purchase skyshard clears on a character that is already level 50. I don't lowbie pvp really, but I feel for the guy that comes across a level 10 that has ten times as many things open for his build than most others just b/c he paid for it.

But you do realize that no matter how many skyshards - and through that skill points - someone potentially has to spend, they will still have to unlock the respective skills first, which happens when they reach certain levels and not just by having unused skill points... right?

But you do realize that the next likely stop on the P2W train is going to be a crown store option to permanently unlock skill lines, right?

Valamist

No it's not P2W.

If you need to have that Achievement to unlock it, then I would say no. Honestly, I would like to see something similar in regards to skill lines. Hunting all those books again just for an alt... yeah... na...

Elara_Northwind

Yes it's P2W.

It's gross, and I hate it! Not everybody can afford to pay to get that achievement on all of their alts. Those that do, will be able to put points into crafting, and so make more gold with writs, they will be able to put all of their passives in whilst leveling up, and skillpoints too, which will make them stronger, kill things faster and level up faster.

We get champion points without having to pay, skillpoints should be the same. I love that we will be getting them, but limiting them to only people who can afford to pay for them with real money is disgusting.

Numerikuu

Yes it's P2W.

Unlocking the achievement should allow you to purchase the points with gold as well.

Regardless, this is the beginning of more *** to come. Seen it time and time again with MMOs, this is just Zenimax testing the waters. Expect worse things from the CS in the future.

Elara_Northwind

Yes it's P2W.

Numerikuu wrote: »

Unlocking the achievement should allow you to purchase the points with gold as well.

Regardless, this is the beginning of more *** to come. Seen it time and time again with MMOs, this is just Zenimax testing the waters. Expect worse things from the CS in the future.

Yes! This is just the beginning! Champion points will be on sale in a crown store near you soon!

CassandraGemini

Other.

Ertosi wrote: »

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CassandraGemini wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

I am not please with this at all. This is no longer pay for convenience, this is Pay To Win.This is adding actual power to your character. They won't be getting any money for this from me, nor anymore sub money.

@ManwithBeard9, I guess ZoS should take away all Champion Points from everyone's characters that did not earn those points.

Did you buy them for your other characters? No, you didn't. You are literally buying skill points with this proposition. If this goes live, you'll see max level necros running around day 1 only needing some XP for skill lines.

So, your only problem with it, is that it is in the crown store? Because Champion Points absolutely give an advantage but skill points do not.

Skill points do.

You can buy passives with them that you normally cannot. Passives give power. You can buy skills with them you normally cannot, they give power and options.

WHICH I don't think matters too much looking at max level characters, but I think they should only allow people to purchase skyshard clears on a character that is already level 50. I don't lowbie pvp really, but I feel for the guy that comes across a level 10 that has ten times as many things open for his build than most others just b/c he paid for it.

But you do realize that no matter how many skyshards - and through that skill points - someone potentially has to spend, they will still have to unlock the respective skills first, which happens when they reach certain levels and not just by having unused skill points... right?

But you do realize that the next likely stop on the P2W train is going to be a crown store option to permanently unlock skill lines, right?

No, I don't realize that, you are just making assumptions at this point. Also I was just stating the facts - that a level 10 character will still not have access to all kinds of skills if he buys the skill points, because he will have to unlock them first - I never said that I support this cash-grabbing. In fact I said earlier, that I absolutely don't and that Zos will not see one cent from me for this! In-game money or other currencies, yes, but real money? No way.

DBZVelena

No it's not P2W.

As far as i saw, at no point was it said that it would be a crown store item. It's very possible it might be a for gold thing.
But even if it's not for gold. it's a convenience thing. As they explained you first needed to at least on one toon have the achievement. It would be no diff from a race change token. After all, you could claim that too to be pay to win, since it allows you to change your race depending on current race balance. The fact that it happens rarely is besides the point.

No i believe the skyshards thing would be a convenience thing nothing more. In fact, i believe if the eso team had conceived that we'd be making so many alt toons. they might have made the skyshards account bound. However now it's far too late to try making that happen, the potential for game-breaking bugs is simply to great. What they however can do is on a character level make it so you can buy the unlock if you have the achievement. this is tech that is already in the game, see unlocking furniture items to understand what i mean.

So i expect the item to be a character unlock, either for gold or crowns. And yes for gold is possible, it would be a great gold sink. Yes, for crowns is more likely because dev time needs to be paid for. But don't expect it to be a unlock for all your toons at once because that's not tech supported by the game.

mairwen85

Other.

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

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Numerikuu wrote: »

Unlocking the achievement should allow you to purchase the points with gold as well.

Regardless, this is the beginning of more *** to come. Seen it time and time again with MMOs, this is just Zenimax testing the waters. Expect worse things from the CS in the future.

Yes! This is just the beginning! Champion points will be on sale in a crown store near you soon!

Thing is cp is already account wide, event 200% exp, enlightenment and exp scrolls already cater to increase. This is a totally moot statement and purely baseless nonsense.

Elara_Northwind

Yes it's P2W.

mairwen85 wrote: »

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Elara_Northwind wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

Unlocking the achievement should allow you to purchase the points with gold as well.

Regardless, this is the beginning of more *** to come. Seen it time and time again with MMOs, this is just Zenimax testing the waters. Expect worse things from the CS in the future.

Yes! This is just the beginning! Champion points will be on sale in a crown store near you soon!

Thing is cp is already account wide, event 200% exp, enlightenment and exp scrolls already cater to increase. This is a totally moot statement and purely baseless nonsense.

It is not baseless in any which way. I respect everybodies opinions and would never be rude or disrespectful to somebody because theirs was different to my own as the world would be a dull one if we all thought the same way, but in my personal view, every single person who supports this is giving ZOS permission to keep adding more and more questionable content to the crown store until eventually, there will be no point in even playing the game!

I have seen so many things added to the crown store, even the crown store itself, when it was added, upset me a little and I don't believe that going free to play was a good move, and is probably the reason for this, despite some of us giving ZOS half of our wages for housing each month, which more than pays their wages but THIS! This is completely ridiculous. We all want our skyshards account wide, but not for real money. It is a gross move. They are just being greedy.

Thorstienn

No it's not P2W.

mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »

BAMN! No work, all play.

I know your being over the top and sarcastic to prove a point... but you are actually right in that sentence.
Have people forgotten this is a game? NOT a job.

And apparently a lot of people need to learn what P2W is! It 100% is not anything to do with your "feelings" as in "each character is an individual"

They could sell all skill lines, max level, armor sets, etc... still NOT P2W as you can get all of that in game (super fast and not grindy at all, according to most forum topics I've read).

IF they sell "the Gina's Sting": 1piece +10000 Wd/SD, 2piece all incoming damage is reduced by 99%... and only available in the cash shop... THAT'S P2W