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I miss magsorc
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Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bumi Rockafella wrote: »
Because Sorcs are borderline OP right now and I see a lot of them, but people are talking like they’re weak.
These people must either not play other classes or be new to the game and generally bad at pvp.
You see a lot of this in all class based threads, my class is weak but I’m amazing so if it performs well it’s because of me, but usually they’re ‘my counter is OP’ and not my class sucks.
In my opinion all classes are decent right now except for magblade dps, and sorcs are the strongest mag class at dps.Edited by Iskiab on March 22, 2019 7:24PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just wait till next patch, more nerfs incoming. Status effects through shields and harness sustain "fixed".
That's your friendly sorcerer reps hard at work for you.
Yeah, yeah. Keep on trying to poke the sleeping dragon...
Fixing status effects is fair game. I actually remember faintly seeing that being acknowledged here a while back.
What I AM afraid of are crazy blanket nerfs that will cripple pet sorcs, eradicate non-pets and do nothing about the here mentioned sorc weaknesses, ready to be exploited again.0 -
bagon✭✭✭Sorc is op rn, but its not fun for anyone. No 1 likes playing a pet sorc, and no1 likes playing against it. 90% of players want pets removed or completely reworked, but instead of listening zos just buffs the pets over and over again. Now we have matriarchs zapping players for 5k. If they just reverted healing ward, made frag cc, changed overload 2 a burst mag ult, fixed how trash streak is when you arent on flat ground, and removed the pets sorc would be fine.5
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just wait till next patch, more nerfs incoming. Status effects through shields and harness sustain "fixed".
That's your friendly sorcerer reps hard at work for you.
Yeah, yeah. Keep on trying to poke the sleeping dragon...
Fixing status effects is fair game. I actually remember faintly seeing that being acknowledged here a while back.
What I AM afraid of are crazy blanket nerfs that will cripple pet sorcs, eradicate non-pets and do nothing about the here mentioned sorc weaknesses, ready to be exploited again.
If you want to run around maimed and burning all day, that's on you. Personally I'd rather not.
It's one of the few damage shield perks left. The question left here is whether we're really using "magical shields" that actually protect us from something or can we just call it "extra temporary health" and be done with it.
Currently damage shields are the one counter the LOL ice wall ice wall ice wall ice wall spam everywhere and I'd rather keep it that way.
Edited by Minalan on March 22, 2019 8:02PM1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I see non-pet sorcs do well too. The strength of the class isn’t from niche builds. I think it’s from them hitting harder with vulnerability changes and the changed execute thing.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just wait till next patch, more nerfs incoming. Status effects through shields and harness sustain "fixed".
That's your friendly sorcerer reps hard at work for you.
Yeah, yeah. Keep on trying to poke the sleeping dragon...
Fixing status effects is fair game. I actually remember faintly seeing that being acknowledged here a while back.
What I AM afraid of are crazy blanket nerfs that will cripple pet sorcs, eradicate non-pets and do nothing about the here mentioned sorc weaknesses, ready to be exploited again.
If you want to run around maimed and burning all day, that's on you. Personally I'd rather not.
It's one of the few damage shield perks left. The question left here is whether we're really using "magical shields" that actually protect us from something or can we just call it "extra temporary health" and be done with it.
Currently damage shields are the one counter the LOL ice wall ice wall ice wall ice wall spam everywhere and I'd rather keep it that way.
Okay, I can see that.
(^_^)'0 -
Illuvatarr✭✭✭✭✭Well, you're not luring with pets, they're too stupid. And without them, you're not as powerful in those 1v1 encounters, as you admitted they are the strength. Proves my point, no synergy. Bad design.
Really? Cus I’m sure myself and others such as Iryllia have won dueling tournaments without a single pet....last patch. Sorc w/o pets is a top dueling spec rn if you know how to play it. And with them it is one of if not the strongest spec in the game all around. And in fact matriarch builds were last patch too.
If you’re struggling on Sorc in Wrathstone, I hate to break it to you, but it’s not the class that’s the issue.
Cyrus is right and others are right. The hard counters are separate and need to be addressed now. They were put in place because frankly mag sorcs were always one change or patchPriyasekarssk wrote: »Bumi Rockafella wrote: »
I'd like to add to this. I can't believe a class rep is saying this and it makes me reevaluate if the class reps know what they are talking about. Sustain sucks! Mages wrath in addition to being able to be dodged twice is flat out broken, if the target moves too fast after the initial cast it will not land, this is being exploited to no end. Streak cost to dam much for how slow it is 80% of the time you get knocked down before the skills animation finishes, why doesn't this work as fast as cloak? Frags misses twice as much as it land and its to dam slow as well, I'm not talking about it being dodged either it just will miss. Over all the Sorc skills are to unreliable.
I'm not saying you can't be successful on a Sorc but its a very frustrating play style as the feel of the skills are off. To call them top tier is a flat out lie.
Yaaa i wasnt going to say anything but i really really hope this guy is a minority among the reps when they talk about sorc.
Well I guess either a few people on the forum or the entire class rep team, some of the best open world pvper and dueler and a the whole sorc class discord is wrong then....
You can choose
Yes its wrong and shameless lie. No explanation required. When 4 Dks or warden coordinated group jump on you with CCs not to mention fossilize or permafrost you're instant death in BGs. No matter you are god of Pvp .
When 4 mage sorc jump on me I just do 1 roll dodge and escape as nothing happened. No matter you are god of PVP. This is just one example.
Just put a video for above scenario . We can talk about many dishonest lies later.
All noobs want status quo to be maintained for noob streamers. That's is the result of class representative program. All trial groups are still loading only nbs. Orc became super meta. No one want a balanced gameplay just use the opportunity to get more and more cheese.
Even when Zos try to balance based on numbers all noob streamers cry and whines in forums like cry babies. Alcast is the only person who gives some unbiased opinion.
I sincerely ask zos to disband class representative program. It only self serving, not doing anything for the game. Its very bad for any game to do balance like this. Money makes many people to lie shamelessly. Balance based on real data and numbers. It's moral responsibility for ZOs to balance the game being eso is their only successful game in recent times.
4 mag sorcs using heavy overload would drop the group you are talking about in 2 gcds.
1 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Illuvatarr wrote: »Well, you're not luring with pets, they're too stupid. And without them, you're not as powerful in those 1v1 encounters, as you admitted they are the strength. Proves my point, no synergy. Bad design.
Really? Cus I’m sure myself and others such as Iryllia have won dueling tournaments without a single pet....last patch. Sorc w/o pets is a top dueling spec rn if you know how to play it. And with them it is one of if not the strongest spec in the game all around. And in fact matriarch builds were last patch too.
If you’re struggling on Sorc in Wrathstone, I hate to break it to you, but it’s not the class that’s the issue.
Cyrus is right and others are right. The hard counters are separate and need to be addressed now. They were put in place because frankly mag sorcs were always one change or patchPriyasekarssk wrote: »Bumi Rockafella wrote: »
I'd like to add to this. I can't believe a class rep is saying this and it makes me reevaluate if the class reps know what they are talking about. Sustain sucks! Mages wrath in addition to being able to be dodged twice is flat out broken, if the target moves too fast after the initial cast it will not land, this is being exploited to no end. Streak cost to dam much for how slow it is 80% of the time you get knocked down before the skills animation finishes, why doesn't this work as fast as cloak? Frags misses twice as much as it land and its to dam slow as well, I'm not talking about it being dodged either it just will miss. Over all the Sorc skills are to unreliable.
I'm not saying you can't be successful on a Sorc but its a very frustrating play style as the feel of the skills are off. To call them top tier is a flat out lie.
Yaaa i wasnt going to say anything but i really really hope this guy is a minority among the reps when they talk about sorc.
Well I guess either a few people on the forum or the entire class rep team, some of the best open world pvper and dueler and a the whole sorc class discord is wrong then....
You can choose
Yes its wrong and shameless lie. No explanation required. When 4 Dks or warden coordinated group jump on you with CCs not to mention fossilize or permafrost you're instant death in BGs. No matter you are god of Pvp .
When 4 mage sorc jump on me I just do 1 roll dodge and escape as nothing happened. No matter you are god of PVP. This is just one example.
Just put a video for above scenario . We can talk about many dishonest lies later.
All noobs want status quo to be maintained for noob streamers. That's is the result of class representative program. All trial groups are still loading only nbs. Orc became super meta. No one want a balanced gameplay just use the opportunity to get more and more cheese.
Even when Zos try to balance based on numbers all noob streamers cry and whines in forums like cry babies. Alcast is the only person who gives some unbiased opinion.
I sincerely ask zos to disband class representative program. It only self serving, not doing anything for the game. Its very bad for any game to do balance like this. Money makes many people to lie shamelessly. Balance based on real data and numbers. It's moral responsibility for ZOs to balance the game being eso is their only successful game in recent times.
4 mag sorcs using heavy overload would drop the group you are talking about in 2 gcds.
All are mud crabs. All win stand there waiting to get killed.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 22, 2019 10:12PM0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just wait till next patch, more nerfs incoming. Status effects through shields and harness sustain "fixed".
That's your friendly sorcerer reps hard at work for you.
Yeah, yeah. Keep on trying to poke the sleeping dragon...
Fixing status effects is fair game. I actually remember faintly seeing that being acknowledged here a while back.
What I AM afraid of are crazy blanket nerfs that will cripple pet sorcs, eradicate non-pets and do nothing about the here mentioned sorc weaknesses, ready to be exploited again.
If you want to run around maimed and burning all day, that's on you. Personally I'd rather not.
It's one of the few damage shield perks left. The question left here is whether we're really using "magical shields" that actually protect us from something or can we just call it "extra temporary health" and be done with it.
Currently damage shields are the one counter the LOL ice wall ice wall ice wall ice wall spam everywhere and I'd rather keep it that way.
Okay, I can see that.
(^_^)'
It's more than that, if enchant status effects work on everything all of the time, then there's no reason to use poisons.
You shields won't protect you from some of the really nasty mobility and damage poisons out there. But they DO counter elemental effect and should continue to do so. Accept that you need to slot something different against damage shields.
Not every build is supposed to be BIS against everyone, if it is then it's probably an issue. Asking for X to be nerfed because it counters my build, and I don't feel like slotting Y instead is getting tiring. Accept that wings is going to be really good against reach. Accept that force pulse isn't as good against nightblades as reach is. Accept that you need radiant mage light or a detect pot against cloak.
You make a build choice, and build a playstyle around it, not everything is supposed to be easy.Edited by Minalan on March 22, 2019 11:15PM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just wait till next patch, more nerfs incoming. Status effects through shields and harness sustain "fixed".
That's your friendly sorcerer reps hard at work for you.
Yeah, yeah. Keep on trying to poke the sleeping dragon...
Fixing status effects is fair game. I actually remember faintly seeing that being acknowledged here a while back.
What I AM afraid of are crazy blanket nerfs that will cripple pet sorcs, eradicate non-pets and do nothing about the here mentioned sorc weaknesses, ready to be exploited again.
If you want to run around maimed and burning all day, that's on you. Personally I'd rather not.
It's one of the few damage shield perks left. The question left here is whether we're really using "magical shields" that actually protect us from something or can we just call it "extra temporary health" and be done with it.
Currently damage shields are the one counter the LOL ice wall ice wall ice wall ice wall spam everywhere and I'd rather keep it that way.
Okay, I can see that.
(^_^)'
It's more than that, if enchant status effects work on everything all of the time, then there's no reason to use poisons.
You shields won't protect you from some of the really nasty mobility and damage poisons out there. But they DO counter elemental effect and should continue to do so. Accept that you need to slot something different against damage shields.
Not every build is supposed to be BIS against everyone, if it is then it's probably an issue. Asking for X to be nerfed because it counters my build, and I don't feel like slotting Y instead is getting tiring. Accept that wings is going to be really good against reach. Accept that force pulse isn't as good against nightblades as reach is. Accept that you need radiant mage light or a detect pot against cloak.
You make a build choice, and build a playstyle around it, not everything is supposed to be easy.
Accept that shields counter crit builds?
(oo)1 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are you kidding me? Some people actually believe sorcs are in a bad spot right now? What on earth...Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.4 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are you kidding me? Some people actually believe sorcs are in a bad spot right now? What on earth...
Nobody good thinks that
Btw, @Waffennacht I owe you an “I told you so” from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5624362#Comment_5624362PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp2 -
Ramber✭✭✭✭Are you talking CP or non-CP Minalan?
I play CP, and it's great. But we are still really good no CP with the right build.
There are a million really strong nocp builds this patch, try this for example, this is what I would do if I played nocp:
https://youtu.be/6ja-ms64r-0
If everyone is making it work except for you, the problem isn't the class.
Is jumping a skill you use to... well is it a skill? lol. i see this all the time and it leaves me scratching my head because you totally stand out jumping all over the place while killing the cp184 for 10 mins. I see this and we go after these people
0 -
NinchiTV✭✭✭✭✭Are you kidding me? Some people actually believe sorcs are in a bad spot right now? What on earth...
Its boring to play. Its not fun. WE HATE PETS. But keep getting forced to use them. And EVERY class can do our job better than we can. nb has superior cc/snare and hard hitting combo compared to frag and curse. templar and dk can stay alive easier solo/small scale then sorc because of mending and being able to face tank or dodge. warden does everything better. On stam sorc you have to have troll king to make up for no mending, you have to have a sustain set because there is no class sustain and you have to have a damage set because sorc HAS NO stam abilities besides a dot. Every other stam class doesnt have to worry about these things. Oh and i love the lack of debuffs too which every class has options to but sorc. So ya stam and dodge and block cool, now what about mag?
All the classes (mag) have ways of staying alive, temps/dks/wardens can block and heal. nbs can cloak away and be fancy with the shade. So what does mag sorc got? streak? nah because the thirsty people who want your 5 star ass will hunt you down - snares make streak useless since we can only streak 3 times (9k mag) so after the 3rd time you look behind you and you see them gunning for you? ya you know you gotta change tactics since you cant outrun, so lets get our shields up - oh wait, your harden ward only can take 6k damage (assuming you have 25kish hp, 40k mag) and it can get crit on OH good thing you have that piece of paper healing ward and that paper thin harness mag shield to help you which both cost 3.9k mag..and a lot of us DONT LIKE HAVING TO USE PETS SINCE THEY TAKE 2 SPOTS. If they made it so you would only have to slot it on one bar then things would be different i bet.
Anyway, yes i believe socs are in a bad spot compared to every other class. Sad thing is i think this is it for my mag sorc because even if they add changes to sorc in the expansion i will already be on necro.2 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yup, agreed. But this IS how the class is designed. Rune Cage was another example. Sorc is supposed to oneshot with one big combo. And to balance, the combo is rather telegraphed and back-loaded. But as people complained, the burst got nerfed without adjusting the way how it's delivered. Caused problems, IMO. And now we crutch on erratic pets that'll probably get nerfed if the duel lobby has it their way. Leading us back to weak, telegraphed, backloaded burst.
It's a cycle and that's why I want a rework of the class. I lost my thread discussing back and forth here, but that's what I initially meant. And the discord is now encouraging the use of Shieldbreaker, too! Ugh! Just rework the *** class already.
You mean how the class was designed till murkmire. Up to this point, yes, the class benefitted from a high max magicka pool more than everything else. But since they scale with resistances and health to a certain degree, the design changed towards a more balanced state between all three resources. Stamina was already very important on magsorc to regen magicka via dark deal. Lots of metabuilds included shacklebreaker or amberplasm to make dark deal a great resource tool. Now health is also a needed resource to expand the cap on your shields. Therefore tristat glyphs are a very solid source to maintain a resource balance.
Edited: And I am still waiting for visionality to answer my question. Since I heard he plays magsorc on DC side, his story from above most likely never happened (DC players cant fight DC players in open world).
That doesn't really have anything to do with how sorcs are designed to deliver damage and kill enemies. The high magicka pool was necessary for survival. If sorcs used it mainly for damage purposes they would have opted for spell damage instead.
Murkmire also didn't really have a big affect on sorcs' HP since their main shield hardened ward remained almost unaffected in it's strength. And the stamina need also didn't change much.
The problem is and has been for a long time now: sorcs are designed to kill enemies with a well placed combo and in return have little sustain pressure, but ZOS (1) nerfed sorc damage, (2) made it too easy to avoid, and (3) introduced a tank meta.
Now points (1) and (3) are interdependent to some degree, but point (2) is independent and desperately needs to be looked at. As I said multiple times already, making rune cage und dodgeable and unblockable again is the solution to many of these issues that are summarized into (2). And given how well Rune Cage is telefraphed I think there is no reason why it shouldn't be also undodgeable. In fact, that's pretty much the only thing that can make it attractive and other classes stuns are both undodgeable and unblockable. It doesn't even sync with meteor anymore.
other undodgeable and unblockable skills have not a 40 meters range in pvp. fossilizie is 8 or 7 meters and dks need to stay melee. its a tool to stay in their preferred combat zone, same as talons. still dks first need to get into that range to be competitive. also afterwards it is quite easy to kite the dk. then there is fear, also melee range. and the last one is northern storm, an ultimate which does aoe damage around the caster, again not ranged. those people all need to get into melee range before their stuns work and out of that reach dks, melee nightblades are almost harmless.
You know as well as I do that all PvP fights between a melee and a ranged build are fought at melee range b/c the gap closers are so much more potent and readily available than gap openers.
Also you say fossilize is ok to be undodgeable and unblockable as well as applying 2 CCs with one global cooldown that will require the opponent to spent 2 global cooldowns and a huge junk of stamina to break free from because it helps DKs as a melee class to keep the fight in melee range. So why is it not ok for sorcs, as a ranged class, to have a CC that tries to keep enemies at range?
And in exchange for having a higher range, Rune cage is heavily telegraphed and lacks a powerful secondary effect such a root or minor maim, 50% slow, and does not affect more than 1 target. Even during Summerset Rune Cage was easily counterable and people were catching on to it. For example, they would stun the sorc as soon as the meteor was announcing itself. Or they would make themselves stun immune. NB would cloak to evade the Rune Cage. ....
And that's not all! A full combo of Curse + Fury + Meteor + Rune Cage + Frag / Spámmable (depending on your proc luck) is 5 consecutive global cooldowns long. That's 5 consecutive global cooldowns without using any defensive abilities. That's highly risky and would not work 99% of the time against a target of equal skill simply b/c the damage taken was would be too high. So in order for that combo to work everything had to line up perfectly and your opponent had to screw up, and even then it was highly risky and not a guaranteed kill. It was high risk - high reward, the way sorcs are supposed to be: having huge combo burst that is in turn difficult fully apply and very risky for yourself.
Look at sorcs nowadays. They are still designed to kill players with a burst combo, but they can't really apply that combo to anybody anymore. Stam builds just perma-dodge or perma-block (and dodge rune cage if somebody was to accidentally use it). Everybody else is dodging Rune Cage b/c it has a 1.2 sec delay - that skill is rendered completely useless. Nobody is running it anymore. Sorcs that are trying to make Force Pulse builds work run Flame Reach as their CC ... that tells you something. Flame Reach on the other hand eas also easily coutnerable b/c it is so nice and shiny and can be both blocked and dodged, plus people are blocking anyway when they see the meteor falling down. In addition, Flame Reach being your spammable leads to unwanted and uncontrollable stun immunity, which is every counter productive if your class is designed to deliver a burst combo, which can only be effectively done when you stun the target at the right moment.
On top of that, everybody is a tank in pvp nowadays, which is very problematic for classes / builds that were designed to kill enemies with burst combos rather than wearing them down over time. For builds that wear their opponents down it just takes longer to kill the opponent. But if the total damage of your not-actively mitigated combo is smaller than the enemies HP pool and your opponent can recover the lost HP before the next combo hits (which they can given the time it takes to regain your ulti), then you are in trouble and the design / balance is flawed. But this is not a sorc specific issue, but rather a cross-class/build issue.Edited by Galarthor on March 23, 2019 10:25AM2 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are you kidding me? Some people actually believe sorcs are in a bad spot right now? What on earth...
Nobody good thinks that
Btw, @Waffennacht I owe you an “I told you so” from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5624362#Comment_5624362
I don't think the actual sorc mains are happy with the changes though. The class has just become much easier to play with all those resists and pet LOS but doesnt really give you full value for your gameplay.
I would take back my wolfhunter sorc in a heartbeat in this slow meta. I would like a 30k non critabble shield with 4 well fitted rather than what we have today.3 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Are you kidding me? Some people actually believe sorcs are in a bad spot right now? What on earth...
Nobody good thinks that
Btw, @Waffennacht I owe you an “I told you so” from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5624362#Comment_5624362
I don't think the actual sorc mains are happy with the changes though. The class has just become much easier to play with all those resists and pet LOS but doesnt really give you full value for your gameplay.
I would take back my wolfhunter sorc in a heartbeat in this slow meta. I would like a 30k non critabble shield with 4 well fitted rather than what we have today.
Same, I hate pets and I would way rather build like a mage and not have to buff resists. There’s a big difference between sorc being strong and sorcs being in a good spot build/ability wise. The shield changes only shoehorned sorc build flexibility even more.
A lot of the pettards aren’t going to be sorc mains, but rather meta chasers or new players that haven’t played sorc long enough to know what it used to be like.2 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭I main a sorc, we dont need buffs. Roll dodge is strong, wings are strong, so is my burst. Im ok with both being that way.
Pets are obnoxious in bgs and need to be changed. Coordinated groups of 4 will wreck people almost regardless of the build, but abusing LOS issues is borderline exploiting and needs to be curbed.1 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭The magsorc meta of Armormaster/Necro/Master Inferno and Matriarch is the biggesr carry build in Wrathstone (pet buffs) atm.
If you struggle with sorc in Mars 2019 please uninstall and play tetris.4 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tsss. Stamina builds have been running around trees and circling players for years. It's high time they got a piece of their own medicine.3 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I miss them mainly for PvP I think sorcs are ok now for pve unless you hate pet builds but sorc between 1.6 and 2.2 was some of the most fun I ever had on ESO its a shame how they butchered the class so badly.
my magsorc does pretty well without any pets, worst part is just the shield nerf.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why do people keep bringing up pets? The best sorcs I’ve seen don’t even use them.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Icarus42✭✭✭Been playing magsorc since release and still have not leveled my twilight lol! I hope this new petsorc meta goes away man they are hard to take down. Starting to see groups of them in cyrodiil now and its hilarious watching your whole faction going after 2 petsorcs!! I would rather fight a stamdk right now than a petsorc.Ebonheart Pact - PC NA - Magicka Sorcerer1 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭Sometimes good things have to die for better things to thrive. Honestly the consensus opinion I've seen among people that have tried the evil pet builds is that they feel pretty similar to the old sorcs as far as their basic functioning. You replace two resto skills and use two barslots for close to the same effect. The still viable but less great at potato mashing destro/resto sorcs are even closer. Comparing the current sorcs ratio of survivability to damage with the most broken and *fun?* eras of glass cannon pvp sorc is a little bit fallacious which seems to be what the majority are doing.
Stamblades who didn't play during the vipers/selenes morrowind proc meta also don't know what it used to be like but that doesn't make those times something we should return to. Most everyone commenting on this pvps at least some which gives the highest rate of transmutes per time spent. Sorry not sorry but use em. Saptanks and blazeplars have been far more gutted than magsorc has as they don't even work on the same axis at all.
Gosh, a bird replaces two resto staff abilities and does largely a better job healing back up whatever damage came through your shields. Dang maybe you're running resto staff and *gasp* some protective traits which IMO are the real secret sauce. I've seen magsorcs be successful with Mighty Chudan and Inferno Guardian. With Petless Resto and with SnB. With more glass cannon specs and with tankier specs. Yet they all tend to run impen and protective jewels like 90% of Cyrodiil. Therefore it is the end of the world that open world pvp magsorc is in a better spot than it's been in since the unblockable and undodgeable Rune Cage spam days. Clearly no more room for build diversity and being off meta at all.
(BTW divines which barely adds any damage has been replaced by your combo being buffed in a way that helps PVE magsorc dps in Trials and dungeons. At the cost of a pretty meh execute passive. Full divines gold gives you 50 odd percent bonus on a mundus. So you lose 120ish spell damage if you were using the Apprentice, and now do 10% damage to full health targets.
The death of rolly polly magsorcs is bigger loss perhaps but honestly given how often magsorcs whine about rolly polly stamblades I think that might be a bit of karmic justice XD. Really tho if they won't give mag a better way to remove snares they can at least give light armor a reduced cost on dodge roll.)2 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs are super strong right now in every way except their execute, which kinda sucks because that was such a class defining skill.
Two separate chances to dodgeroll the execute just isn’t ok. Its better off as a instant cast spammable than this dodgeable BS. I might be exaggerating a bit but yeah... mage’s wrath needs to be reexamined
I agree with the implosion change maybe look at just 1 chance to dodge0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Any magsorcs in this thread arguing magsorcs are subpar or not close to other classes are living in a fantasy world. Magsorcs are arguable over performing in certain areas, and since pigeonholed Into matriarch builds and given recent pet buffs, perform very well open world and in duels. Hell you dont even need matriarch in duels. We've had sorcs place first in Legends tournaments without using matriarch.
Also I play 4 mag sorcs, so def no bias here.
But you're better off with the Matriarch. So how do you balance that? Nerf it so sorcs become meh again? Or leave it, but have the sorc struggle when the pet won't cooperate in Cyrodiil? Buff no-pet and risk pet build becoming OP?
See what I'm getting at? The class has flaws in its design that could really use a rework. And with our reps praising sorc here and there, I can already smell a nerf à là Rune Cage 2.0 incoming...
=/
Pet build becoming OP? They are already.
Non-pet builds also are strong, as Malamar wrote.
Not sure if you just blend stuff out, which does not match your opinion. Malamar clearly wrote that both specs of magsorcs, pet and non-pet are very strong. With pets it just starts to get obnoxious. The class needs some quality of life improvements, not changes to their tools.
Eh. Seen some overpowered stuff in this game. A single twilight really isn't on the same level. But okay, I think it's semantics only. So for argument's sake, let's say that twilight build is top tier. Plus, even. What will your discussion with ZOS be in the future? Will you suggest a nerf, as they're so strong? And what quality of life do you have in mind?
Youre right no reason not to run matriarch except targetable pets are banned in our tournaments so that's why I mentioned it.
For two bar slots, you get a lot of bang for the buck.Edited by Malamar1229 on March 27, 2019 5:16PM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Any magsorcs in this thread arguing magsorcs are subpar or not close to other classes are living in a fantasy world. Magsorcs are arguable over performing in certain areas, and since pigeonholed Into matriarch builds and given recent pet buffs, perform very well open world and in duels. Hell you dont even need matriarch in duels. We've had sorcs place first in Legends tournaments without using matriarch.
Also I play 4 mag sorcs, so def no bias here.
But you're better off with the Matriarch. So how do you balance that? Nerf it so sorcs become meh again? Or leave it, but have the sorc struggle when the pet won't cooperate in Cyrodiil? Buff no-pet and risk pet build becoming OP?
See what I'm getting at? The class has flaws in its design that could really use a rework. And with our reps praising sorc here and there, I can already smell a nerf à là Rune Cage 2.0 incoming...
=/
Pet build becoming OP? They are already.
Non-pet builds also are strong, as Malamar wrote.
Not sure if you just blend stuff out, which does not match your opinion. Malamar clearly wrote that both specs of magsorcs, pet and non-pet are very strong. With pets it just starts to get obnoxious. The class needs some quality of life improvements, not changes to their tools.
Eh. Seen some overpowered stuff in this game. A single twilight really isn't on the same level. But okay, I think it's semantics only. So for argument's sake, let's say that twilight build is top tier. Plus, even. What will your discussion with ZOS be in the future? Will you suggest a nerf, as they're so strong? And what quality of life do you have in mind?
Youre right no reason not to run matriarch except targetable pets are banned in our tournaments so that's why I mentioned it.
For two bar slots, you get a lot of bang for the buck.
True. IF they cooperate. Seen too many pets bugging out to ever fully trust them and put 'em on the same level as pre-nerf proc sets, initial Warden class or even Dawnbreaker.
Just recently, when Wrathstone launched on console, there was another one of those instances. We had the boss of vDepths down to below one percent. But my team was dead, I had no resources and was being chased. I waa hoping for my two pets to deliver the finishing blows while I was kiting like hell. But sure enough, they did NOTHING. They just stood there. Boss caught me. (-_-) I will never fully trust those stupid things...0 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People fret about the matriarch taking up 2 slots but I think it's well worth it. In addition to the burst heal you also get a very strong single target DoT that doesn't cost any resources and procs minor vulnerability.
I wish I didn't hate Dark Deal so much cuz I'd love to try the other morph, which is doing crazy dps in PvE this patch.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Checkmath
So, it's the 28th for me. NDA ends, right? Any insights you wanna share? Am I right to be worried?
._.0