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I miss magsorc
-
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
hmm, I didn't say "killing". Of course if you want to take dow a good DK you need to work with someone else (as any other good player). I was mostly referring to those DKs that have 100% uptime on wings and those don't have many working brain cells.
Haven't you see them on PvP fighting a Templar and spamming wings? They´re awfulSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That just undermined your whole post, thinking you can just dodge away from 4 sorc's either proves you don't play against sorcs regularly or you don't play at a competitive level.Priyasekarssk wrote: »Yes its wrong and shameless lie. No explanation required. When 4 Dks or warden coordinated group jump on you with CCs not to mention fossilize or permafrost you're instant death in BGs. No matter you are god of Pvp .
When 4 mage sorc jump on me I just do 1 roll dodge and escape as nothing happened. No matter you are god of PVP. This is just one example.
Just put a video for above scenario . We can talk about many dishonest lies later.
All noobs want status quo to be maintained for noob streamers. That's is the result of class representative program. All trial groups are still loading only nbs. Orc became super meta. No one want a balanced gameplay just use the opportunity to get more and more cheese.
Even when Zos try to balance based on numbers all noob streamers cry and whines in forums like cry babies. Alcast is the only person who gives some unbiased opinion.
I sincerely ask zos to disband class representative program. It only self serving, not doing anything for the game. Its very bad for any game to do balance like this. Money makes many people to lie shamelessly. Balance based on real data and numbers. It's moral responsibility for ZOs to balance the game being eso is their only successful game in recent times.
Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Any magsorcs in this thread arguing magsorcs are subpar or not close to other classes are living in a fantasy world. Magsorcs are arguable over performing in certain areas, and since pigeonholed Into matriarch builds and given recent pet buffs, perform very well open world and in duels. Hell you dont even need matriarch in duels. We've had sorcs place first in Legends tournaments without using matriarch.
Also I play 4 mag sorcs, so def no bias here.
But you're better off with the Matriarch. So how do you balance that? Nerf it so sorcs become meh again? Or leave it, but have the sorc struggle when the pet won't cooperate in Cyrodiil? Buff no-pet and risk pet build becoming OP?
See what I'm getting at? The class has flaws in its design that could really use a rework. And with our reps praising sorc here and there, I can already smell a nerf à là Rune Cage 2.0 incoming...
=/
Pet build becoming OP? They are already.
Non-pet builds also are strong, as Malamar wrote.
Not sure if you just blend stuff out, which does not match your opinion. Malamar clearly wrote that both specs of magsorcs, pet and non-pet are very strong. With pets it just starts to get obnoxious. The class needs some quality of life improvements, not changes to their tools.
yes. I see all the top leaderships boards .
Oh yeah all noobs are afraid of competitve gameplay . Its very simple. For lack of talent all compensate with garbage game balance and buffing their own classes again and again. Lies have no end similar to imagination. What next ? Some XXX says mage sorc is god mode ? YYY survery says mage sorc 99 percent responds with mage sorc is op ?
Very typical response from a class representative of ESO .
Explain why mage sorc is OP ? At what scenarios its OP ? What tool kit or strategies make them OP and why it cant be countered ? I can give lot examples why its not.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 20, 2019 2:03PM0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
That just undermined your whole post, thinking you can just dodge away from 4 sorc's either proves you don't play against sorcs regularly or you don't play at a competitive level.Priyasekarssk wrote: »Yes its wrong and shameless lie. No explanation required. When 4 Dks or warden coordinated group jump on you with CCs not to mention fossilize or permafrost you're instant death in BGs. No matter you are god of Pvp .
When 4 mage sorc jump on me I just do 1 roll dodge and escape as nothing happened. No matter you are god of PVP. This is just one example.
Just put a video for above scenario . We can talk about many dishonest lies later.
All noobs want status quo to be maintained for noob streamers. That's is the result of class representative program. All trial groups are still loading only nbs. Orc became super meta. No one want a balanced gameplay just use the opportunity to get more and more cheese.
Even when Zos try to balance based on numbers all noob streamers cry and whines in forums like cry babies. Alcast is the only person who gives some unbiased opinion.
I sincerely ask zos to disband class representative program. It only self serving, not doing anything for the game. Its very bad for any game to do balance like this. Money makes many people to lie shamelessly. Balance based on real data and numbers. It's moral responsibility for ZOs to balance the game being eso is their only successful game in recent times.
I am one of the top player of DOTA2 and COD. ESO is not my primary game since its filled with half baked noobs and of course does not give me money . Get lost noobs. Give me the list of undodgeable skills for mage sorc tool kit ? Lets see how pro you are.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 20, 2019 1:51PM0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »I am one of the top player of DOTA2 and COD. ESO is not my primary game since its filled with half baked noobs and of course does not give me money . Get lost noobs. Give me the list of undodgeable skills for mage sorc tool kit ? Lets see how pro you are.
Good for you, I'm the king of england, maybe zip up your pants and tuck your shirt back in. Bragging on the interwebs is so 1999.
Why not look at the list of undodgeable NB abilities? I'm sure you can dodge roll away from 4 NB's too right? They will never be able to keep up with your super speed dodge, lmao. Pretending that dodge is some all powerful defense against Sorcerer only degrades your position.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..3 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Yeah, at the least you need pulse, curse, wrath, streak, and an ultimate that they can't easily block, reflect, or casually walk away from (Destro ultimate is my favorite). You can always do really well with mines since they are a melee class, dumping daedric tomb on top of them is just funny.
Yes you can kill a DK with the available sorc kit. No it's not easy and it's not supposed to be, it requires more than a little L2P.
Bar space is and will continue to be our single biggest class issue. Mister "Is it because you have too many good skills?" Is gone now, hopefully the new devs in charge will actually listen and look at the skills and design.3 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Yeah, at the least you need pulse, curse, wrath, streak, and an ultimate that they can't easily block, reflect, or casually walk away from (Destro ultimate is my favorite). You can always do really well with mines since they are a melee class, dumping daedric tomb on top of them is just funny.
Yes you can kill a DK with the available sorc kit. No it's not easy and it's not supposed to be, it requires more than a little L2P.
Bar space is and will continue to be our single biggest class issue. Mister "Is it because you have too many good skills?" Is gone now, hopefully the new devs in charge will actually listen and look at the skills and design.
Ya it possible but it almost always requires an ultimate and a little luck. I just don't like the mentality that DK's are at such a disadvantage and its' an easy fight. Just do X and they are toast!Edited by bardx86 on March 20, 2019 2:20PM1 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This thread is very disturbing, and it scares me that ZOS may be making decisions based on the opinions of players that spend a lot of time in Battlegrounds or No-CP Cyrodiil or dueling. I really don't think it's a good idea to balance Sorc for these activities, because CP Cyrodiil is where the vast majority of the PvP action is.
I admit that my own perspective may also be biased, because I spend so much time in the Imperial City, but I do find that my occasional experiences in "open world" Cyrodiil are very similar. I also find it hard to believe that European Nightblades and DKs are so weak that EU Sorcs aren't bothered by the ridiculous advantages they enjoy.
BGs and non CP is a better PvP environment, and class capabilities are far better demonstrated in a structured mode like BGs, where players are generally playing against enemies of similar skill levels.
Even if that's true, Vivec is where the masses are fighting. Why should the game be balanced around the minority of conflicts?
The game should be balanced around environments where it is easy to examine how well classes perform on an even playing field without outside factors. BGs is naturally the best environment for that, regardless of how many people are in Vivec. There are too many random factors and not enough direct comparison opportunities in Cyrodiil to structure the whole balancing around it. Yeah, it should play a part but not be the majority consideration. Plenty of players who play Vivec also play BGs though.
If ZOS were to look at high MMR BGs, they get a good sample of people who know their classes, how to play against other classes, how to interact in a team environment, and how to position themselves in a gamemode with a set number of players. Compare that to Cyrodiil where one minute you might be 1vXing a bunch of noobs who only light attack you and the next minute you're getting chased down by a zerg. There's no real consistency there, and how well a class can kill potatoes is not something great to be balancing around.3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Yeah, at the least you need pulse, curse, wrath, streak, and an ultimate that they can't easily block, reflect, or casually walk away from (Destro ultimate is my favorite). You can always do really well with mines since they are a melee class, dumping daedric tomb on top of them is just funny.
Yes you can kill a DK with the available sorc kit. No it's not easy and it's not supposed to be, it requires more than a little L2P.
Bar space is and will continue to be our single biggest class issue. Mister "Is it because you have too many good skills?" Is gone now, hopefully the new devs in charge will actually listen and look at the skills and design.
Ya it possible but it almost always requires an ultimate and a little luck. I just don't like the mentality that DK's are at such a disadvantage and its' an easy fight. Just do X and they are toast!
All classes need an ulti to kill. I don't see how sorc should be different.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Yeah, at the least you need pulse, curse, wrath, streak, and an ultimate that they can't easily block, reflect, or casually walk away from (Destro ultimate is my favorite). You can always do really well with mines since they are a melee class, dumping daedric tomb on top of them is just funny.
Yes you can kill a DK with the available sorc kit. No it's not easy and it's not supposed to be, it requires more than a little L2P.
Bar space is and will continue to be our single biggest class issue. Mister "Is it because you have too many good skills?" Is gone now, hopefully the new devs in charge will actually listen and look at the skills and design.
Ya it possible but it almost always requires an ultimate and a little luck. I just don't like the mentality that DK's are at such a disadvantage and its' an easy fight. Just do X and they are toast!
All classes need an ulti to kill. I don't see how sorc should be different.
If only we had a good ultimate. *cough* magicaldawnbreaker *cough* I'm actually not coughing *cough*1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Yeah, at the least you need pulse, curse, wrath, streak, and an ultimate that they can't easily block, reflect, or casually walk away from (Destro ultimate is my favorite). You can always do really well with mines since they are a melee class, dumping daedric tomb on top of them is just funny.
Yes you can kill a DK with the available sorc kit. No it's not easy and it's not supposed to be, it requires more than a little L2P.
Bar space is and will continue to be our single biggest class issue. Mister "Is it because you have too many good skills?" Is gone now, hopefully the new devs in charge will actually listen and look at the skills and design.
Ya it possible but it almost always requires an ultimate and a little luck. I just don't like the mentality that DK's are at such a disadvantage and its' an easy fight. Just do X and they are toast!
All classes need an ulti to kill. I don't see how sorc should be different.
If only we had a good ultimate. *cough* magicaldawnbreaker *cough* I'm actually not coughing *cough*
Destro ulti. But I agree, Sorcs doesn't have a strong hitting ulti. Maybe that could help to improve sorc's quality of life (Overload should be reworked into a Lightning like the one Thor used against Hela in that movie)Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Yeah, at the least you need pulse, curse, wrath, streak, and an ultimate that they can't easily block, reflect, or casually walk away from (Destro ultimate is my favorite). You can always do really well with mines since they are a melee class, dumping daedric tomb on top of them is just funny.
Yes you can kill a DK with the available sorc kit. No it's not easy and it's not supposed to be, it requires more than a little L2P.
Bar space is and will continue to be our single biggest class issue. Mister "Is it because you have too many good skills?" Is gone now, hopefully the new devs in charge will actually listen and look at the skills and design.
Ya it possible but it almost always requires an ultimate and a little luck. I just don't like the mentality that DK's are at such a disadvantage and its' an easy fight. Just do X and they are toast!
All classes need an ulti to kill. I don't see how sorc should be different.
If only we had a good ultimate. *cough* magicaldawnbreaker *cough* I'm actually not coughing *cough*
Destro ulti. But I agree, Sorcs doesn't have a strong hitting ulti. Maybe that could help to improve sorc's quality of life (Overload should be reworked into a Lightning like the one Thor used against Hela in that movie)
That would be awesome0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Yeah, at the least you need pulse, curse, wrath, streak, and an ultimate that they can't easily block, reflect, or casually walk away from (Destro ultimate is my favorite). You can always do really well with mines since they are a melee class, dumping daedric tomb on top of them is just funny.
Yes you can kill a DK with the available sorc kit. No it's not easy and it's not supposed to be, it requires more than a little L2P.
Bar space is and will continue to be our single biggest class issue. Mister "Is it because you have too many good skills?" Is gone now, hopefully the new devs in charge will actually listen and look at the skills and design.
Ya it possible but it almost always requires an ultimate and a little luck. I just don't like the mentality that DK's are at such a disadvantage and its' an easy fight. Just do X and they are toast!
All classes need an ulti to kill. I don't see how sorc should be different.
Come on you know thats not always true.1 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »I am one of the top player of DOTA2 and COD. ESO is not my primary game since its filled with half baked noobs and of course does not give me money . Get lost noobs. Give me the list of undodgeable skills for mage sorc tool kit ? Lets see how pro you are.
Good for you, I'm the king of england, maybe zip up your pants and tuck your shirt back in. Bragging on the interwebs is so 1999.
Why not look at the list of undodgeable NB abilities? I'm sure you can dodge roll away from 4 NB's too right? They will never be able to keep up with your super speed dodge, lmao. Pretending that dodge is some all powerful defense against Sorcerer only degrades your position.
You dont come here to debate . Only I see a noob is trolling and begging for lack of skills. Pathetic garbages. Go and L2P noobs . Please dont to come forums and waste my time . you are not worth my time. So far, I dont not even see 1 strategy that makes mage sorc OP that cannot be countered.
Assassination
Death Stroke
• Incapacitating Strike – Dodgeable and blockable
• Soul Harvest – Undodgeable ( Fixed as part of later release) but blockable
Assassins Blade
• Killers Blade – Dodgeable and blockable
• Impale – Dodgeable and blockable
Teleport Strike
• Lotus Fan – Dodgeable and blockable
• Ambush – Dodgeable and blockable
Blur
• Mirage
• Double Take
Mark Target
• Piercing Mark – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Reaping Mark – Undodgeable and unblockable
Grim Focus
• Relentless Focus – Dodgeable and blockable
• Merciless Resolve – Dodgeable and blockable
Shadow
Consuming Darkness
• Bolstering Darkness – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Veil of Blades – Undodgeable and unblockable
Veiled Strike
• Surprise Attack – Dodgeable and blockable
• Concealed Weapon – Dodgeable and blockable
Shadow Cloak
• Shadowy Disguise
• Dark Cloak
Path of Darkness
• Twisting Path – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Refreshing Path – Undodgeable and unblockable
Aspect of Terror
• Mass Hysteria – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Manifestation of Terror – Undodgeable and unblockable
Summon Shade
• Dark Shades – Undodgeable (Skill application) but blockable
• Shadow Image – Undodgeable (Skill application) but blockable
Siphoning
Soul Shred
• Soul Siphon – Dodgeable and blockable
• Soul Tether – Dodgeable and blockable
Strife
• Funnel Health – Dodgeable and blockable
• Swallow Soul – Dodgeable and blockable
Agony
• Prolonged Suffering
• Malefic Wreath
Cripple
• Debilitate – Unblockable but dodgeable
• Crippling Grasp – Unblockable but dodgeable
Siphoning Strikes
• Leeching Strikes
• Siphoning Attacks
Drain Power
• Power Extraction – Dodgeable and blockable
• Sap Essence – Dodgeable and blockableEdited by Priyasekarssk on March 20, 2019 6:31PM1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »I am one of the top player of DOTA2 and COD. ESO is not my primary game since its filled with half baked noobs and of course does not give me money . Get lost noobs. Give me the list of undodgeable skills for mage sorc tool kit ? Lets see how pro you are.
Good for you, I'm the king of england, maybe zip up your pants and tuck your shirt back in. Bragging on the interwebs is so 1999.
Why not look at the list of undodgeable NB abilities? I'm sure you can dodge roll away from 4 NB's too right? They will never be able to keep up with your super speed dodge, lmao. Pretending that dodge is some all powerful defense against Sorcerer only degrades your position.
You dont come here to debate noob Only I see noob is trolling. Pathetic garbages. Go and L2P noobs . Please dont to come forums and waste my time . you are not worth my time. You didnt answer my question noobs .
Assassination
Death Stroke
• Incapacitating Strike – Dodgeable and blockable
• Soul Harvest – Undodgeable (will be fixed in Dragon Bones) but blockable
Assassins Blade
• Killers Blade – Dodgeable and blockable
• Impale – Dodgeable and blockable
Teleport Strike
• Lotus Fan – Dodgeable and blockable
• Ambush – Dodgeable and blockable
Blur
• Mirage
• Double Take
Mark Target
• Piercing Mark – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Reaping Mark – Undodgeable and unblockable
Grim Focus
• Relentless Focus – Dodgeable and blockable
• Merciless Resolve – Dodgeable and blockable
Shadow
Consuming Darkness
• Bolstering Darkness – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Veil of Blades – Undodgeable and unblockable
Veiled Strike
• Surprise Attack – Dodgeable and blockable
• Concealed Weapon – Dodgeable and blockable
Shadow Cloak
• Shadowy Disguise
• Dark Cloak
Path of Darkness
• Twisting Path – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Refreshing Path – Undodgeable and unblockable
Aspect of Terror
• Mass Hysteria – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Manifestation of Terror – Undodgeable and unblockable
Summon Shade
• Dark Shades – Undodgeable (Skill application) but blockable
• Shadow Image – Undodgeable (Skill application) but blockable
Siphoning
Soul Shred
• Soul Siphon – Dodgeable and blockable
• Soul Tether – Dodgeable and blockable
Strife
• Funnel Health – Dodgeable and blockable
• Swallow Soul – Dodgeable and blockable
Agony
• Prolonged Suffering
• Malefic Wreath
Cripple
• Debilitate – Unblockable but dodgeable
• Crippling Grasp – Unblockable but dodgeable
Siphoning Strikes
• Leeching Strikes
• Siphoning Attacks
Drain Power
• Power Extraction – Dodgeable and blockable
• Sap Essence – Dodgeable and blockable
Drops the mic!0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Yeah, at the least you need pulse, curse, wrath, streak, and an ultimate that they can't easily block, reflect, or casually walk away from (Destro ultimate is my favorite). You can always do really well with mines since they are a melee class, dumping daedric tomb on top of them is just funny.
Yes you can kill a DK with the available sorc kit. No it's not easy and it's not supposed to be, it requires more than a little L2P.
Bar space is and will continue to be our single biggest class issue. Mister "Is it because you have too many good skills?" Is gone now, hopefully the new devs in charge will actually listen and look at the skills and design.
Ya it possible but it almost always requires an ultimate and a little luck. I just don't like the mentality that DK's are at such a disadvantage and its' an easy fight. Just do X and they are toast!
All classes need an ulti to kill. I don't see how sorc should be different.
Come on you know thats not always true.
If you are dealing with a mid to high tier enemy, the ulti as an execute is a must. When facing potatoes maybe you can avoid it. There are some exceptions, of course.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wow, this thread is still going?
People complaining about sorc in pvp because they can’t use 3 damage sets? I don’t play a sorc but I can tell you from playing with them some are good and some suck. I guess I know which ones are complaining.
Looks like people want to win in pvp based on their character choice, and are going to cry until they get it.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten4 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »I am one of the top player of DOTA2 and COD. ESO is not my primary game since its filled with half baked noobs and of course does not give me money . Get lost noobs. Give me the list of undodgeable skills for mage sorc tool kit ? Lets see how pro you are.
Good for you, I'm the king of england, maybe zip up your pants and tuck your shirt back in. Bragging on the interwebs is so 1999.
Why not look at the list of undodgeable NB abilities? I'm sure you can dodge roll away from 4 NB's too right? They will never be able to keep up with your super speed dodge, lmao. Pretending that dodge is some all powerful defense against Sorcerer only degrades your position.
You dont come here to debate . Only I see a noob is trolling and begging for lack of skills. Pathetic garbages. Go and L2P noobs . Please dont to come forums and waste my time . you are not worth my time. So far, I dont not even see 1 strategy that makes mage sorc OP that cannot be countered.
Assassination
Death Stroke
• Incapacitating Strike – Dodgeable and blockable
• Soul Harvest – Undodgeable ( Fixed as part of later release) but blockable
Assassins Blade
• Killers Blade – Dodgeable and blockable
• Impale – Dodgeable and blockable
Teleport Strike
• Lotus Fan – Dodgeable and blockable
• Ambush – Dodgeable and blockable
Blur
• Mirage
• Double Take
Mark Target
• Piercing Mark – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Reaping Mark – Undodgeable and unblockable
Grim Focus
• Relentless Focus – Dodgeable and blockable
• Merciless Resolve – Dodgeable and blockable
Shadow
Consuming Darkness
• Bolstering Darkness – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Veil of Blades – Undodgeable and unblockable
Veiled Strike
• Surprise Attack – Dodgeable and blockable
• Concealed Weapon – Dodgeable and blockable
Shadow Cloak
• Shadowy Disguise
• Dark Cloak
Path of Darkness
• Twisting Path – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Refreshing Path – Undodgeable and unblockable
Aspect of Terror
• Mass Hysteria – Undodgeable and unblockable
• Manifestation of Terror – Undodgeable and unblockable
Summon Shade
• Dark Shades – Undodgeable (Skill application) but blockable
• Shadow Image – Undodgeable (Skill application) but blockable
Siphoning
Soul Shred
• Soul Siphon – Dodgeable and blockable
• Soul Tether – Dodgeable and blockable
Strife
• Funnel Health – Dodgeable and blockable
• Swallow Soul – Dodgeable and blockable
Agony
• Prolonged Suffering
• Malefic Wreath
Cripple
• Debilitate – Unblockable but dodgeable
• Crippling Grasp – Unblockable but dodgeable
Siphoning Strikes
• Leeching Strikes
• Siphoning Attacks
Drain Power
• Power Extraction – Dodgeable and blockable
• Sap Essence – Dodgeable and blockable
Please go back through my posts and feel free to point out where I said Mag Sorcs were OP and uncounterable. Also feel free to show my posts where I was begging for anything here. Much to the chagrin of your intellectual sycophants on here, those posts do not exist within this thread. Of course they might be found in the same imaginary land where you use a single dodge roll to walk away from 4 sorcs who jumped you.
Since it is clear you have little to no comprehension I'll bother to remind you that it was your claim of being able to deal with 4 sorcs with a Single dodge roll that prompted my post here. Sorcs are not nearly as pathetic as you would have others believe.
Also listing the actual skills from the NB class is irrelevant to the point, of course you would have to have some form of education to understand that. Having dodgeable abilities does not make dodge uncounterable. One does not need an entire kit of undodgeable skills in order to deal with dodge roll spammers.
Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment
High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.
Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !
All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !
The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !
You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.
If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.
@Xvorg
This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell
Thanks for the laugh.
I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?
Hahaha, no kidding! I want to move to EU PC server so my Sorc can start blowing away DKs with Curse-Fury combos
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If you are dealing with a mid to high tier enemy, the ulti as an execute is a must. When facing potatoes maybe you can avoid it. There are some exceptions, of course.
The point is, against winged DKs you always need the ulti to even have a slight chance of killing them. The problem is that everything except for Curse and Execute is reflectable, and you are simply not killing somebody using just these 2 skills. And even in combination with an ultimate those 2 are not enough. But the problem goes way beyond that since the wings not only effectively limit your offensive toolkit to 2 abilities (3 for pet sorcs)
Sure you could build for fighting winged DKs by e.g. adopting a lightning staff heavy attack build and run AoEs, but that makes you vulnerable and absolutely useless against all other classes / builds while only providing you a slightly improved chance of killing the winged DK. And it seems rather harsh and unfair that you'd have to severely cripple yourself in all but 1 special scenario just to counter 1 skill of a DK.
And anybody claiming that Curse, Fury (and Twilight) are enough to kill a DK is just talking bs. DKs got sufficient mitigation tools to fight, survive, and kill melee builds which render their wings completely useless. But that means that ranged builds not only can only bring something between 10% and 30% of their damage potential to bear, but also have to overcome the entire defenses of a DK with these meager 10% to 30% where melee builds struggle with 100% of their damage potential.
The same is true for stamina builds that spam dodge (main stamblades, since cloak allows them to keep the dodge penalty low) as pretty much the entire damage toolkit is dodgeable. And those dodgers do fine enough against builds that got far fewer dodgeable abilities. Which means these perma-dodgers just got an excess of mitigation tools / potential against the current sorc toolkit.
One of the easiest ways to fix many of these issues would be to make Rune Cage viable again - i.e. make it undodgeable like other class stuns. That would allow sorcs to hit perma-dodgers and it would allow sorcs to finally being able to drop the Master Inferno staff and use Force Pulse / Crushing Shock again and thus having a spammable skill that can put some pressure on winged DKs.2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
If you are dealing with a mid to high tier enemy, the ulti as an execute is a must. When facing potatoes maybe you can avoid it. There are some exceptions, of course.
The point is, against winged DKs you always need the ulti to even have a slight chance of killing them. The problem is that everything except for Curse and Execute is reflectable, and you are simply not killing somebody using just these 2 skills. And even in combination with an ultimate those 2 are not enough. But the problem goes way beyond that since the wings not only effectively limit your offensive toolkit to 2 abilities (3 for pet sorcs)
Ok, first of all it is the other way around: everything except frags is unreflectable. Curse and fury are unreflectable, same as pet attacks. As @Minalan pointed out, mines, streak and encase are also unrefletable. Boudless storm, rune, lightning splash... none of them is reflectable. Talking about skills outside the cass skills, you have force pulse Wall of elements and impulse. You can add both skills in the soul magick tree (Ulti and soul trap). Vamps also have Bat and drain essence. In the Mague's guild you have Meteor and fire rune, while psijic adds time stop (though expensive), so there are a lot of skills to choose from, but the problem is frags and I understand that it could be very annoying having such strong skill reflected back to you. My only advice is this, avoid frags, that's all. Rely more on force pulse... I mean, if you proc the concussion effect, not only you are doing 8% extra dmg, but also extra dmg because the skill does more dmg to targets affected by status effects. Or you can try crushing shock and interrupt the DK while he's spamming wings.Sure you could build for fighting winged DKs by e.g. adopting a lightning staff heavy attack build and run AoEs, but that makes you vulnerable and absolutely useless against all other classes / builds while only providing you a slightly improved chance of killing the winged DK. And it seems rather harsh and unfair that you'd have to severely cripple yourself in all but 1 special scenario just to counter 1 skill of a DK.
It is the same scenario I have to face when dealing with a magsorc: Should I go for 5 Torug's + 5 Knight Slayer to get through shields with oblivion dmg? Of course, it will work agains sorcs, but it won't work against a Templar in my face. You cannot go on Cyro believing you can kill everyone, ther must be counters and to work around those counters you must work on you playing style, or on your items.And anybody claiming that Curse, Fury (and Twilight) are enough to kill a DK is just talking bs. DKs got sufficient mitigation tools to fight, survive, and kill melee builds which render their wings completely useless. But that means that ranged builds not only can only bring something between 10% and 30% of their damage potential to bear, but also have to overcome the entire defenses of a DK with these meager 10% to 30% where melee builds struggle with 100% of their damage potential.
DK needs wings to survive ranged playstyle, otherwise the class would be unplayable. It was unplayable some time ago when wings were not even used because they provided nothing. Now they are used because they give some snare inmunity, but they are far from being great skills. Have you think about what happens to a DK when he finds a good Stamden or a Stamplar? Wings doesn't save you from those guys. Or when a NBs drops behind you with SA + Incap. You are pretty much dead before you realize there was a NB around.
On top of that, while some stamDK can use wings to counter key attacks, they cannot keep them up 100% of the time because they don't have the magicka pool enough to do that. On the contrary, while MDKs can have wings up all the day and tomorrow, they have a very, very weak stam pool. If you want to kill a mDK spamming wings, go for his stam. CC him, make him dodge roll and the DK will be dead pretty soon. He can spamm wings all the day, but it also means he cannot use the magicka to attack. any mDK kills its enemy just controlling the field, if you get the control of the fight before he does, you win.
In the entire dmg toolkit dodgeable? No, just the skills sorcs rely more are dodgeable. You can easily weave pulse + rune cage and the stam build can dodge both, but at the price of getting increased cost on it's dodges. Sorcs are not easy to kill because they are bad, they are easy to kill because they are predictable. An unpredictable sorc is much more dangerous than anything in Cyro, because you don't know what comes next, and what come next it is always worst than what you imagined.The same is true for stamina builds that spam dodge (main stamblades, since cloak allows them to keep the dodge penalty low) as pretty much the entire damage toolkit is dodgeable. And those dodgers do fine enough against builds that got far fewer dodgeable abilities. Which means these perma-dodgers just got an excess of mitigation tools / potential against the current sorc toolkit.One of the easiest ways to fix many of these issues would be to make Rune Cage viable again - i.e. make it undodgeable like other class stuns. That would allow sorcs to hit perma-dodgers and it would allow sorcs to finally being able to drop the Master Inferno staff and use Force Pulse / Crushing Shock again and thus having a spammable skill that can put some pressure on winged DKs.
Sorry, no. If they do that, then they should make flame lash proc undodgeable again, while giving it back its stun, taking away that awful CD, making it again an 8mts skill instead the 7 mts while keeping it's original 0 cost. Because there were at least 5 nerfs to only one skill that wasn't even overperforming. Anyway, as a DK I've learnt to use the skill in the conditions it is now. Maybe most sorcs should try the sameEdited by Xvorg on March 20, 2019 8:52PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique4 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭magsorc complaining about dk wings.
as a magblade main idk what to say. (magblades are basically reduced to crushing shock to kill a dk)2 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, first of all it is the other way around: everything except frags is unreflectable. Curse and fury are unreflectable, same as pet attacks. As @Minalan pointed out, mines, streak and encase are also unrefletable. Boudless storm, rune, lightning splash... none of them is reflectable. Talking about skills outside the cass skills, you have force pulse Wall of elements and impulse. You can add both skills in the soul magick tree (Ulti and soul trap). Vamps also have Bat and drain essence. In the Mague's guild you have Meteor and fire rune, while psijic adds time stop (though expensive), so there are a lot of skills to choose from, but the problem is frags and I understand that it could be very annoying having such strong skill reflected back to you. My only advice is this, avoid frags, that's all. Rely more on force pulse... I mean, if you proc the concussion effect, not only you are doing 8% extra dmg, but also extra dmg because the skill does more dmg to targets affected by status effects. Or you can try crushing shock and interrupt the DK while he's spamming wings.
And there is also Wrecking Blow, Volley, and Impale that are, amongst others, unreflectable. How is that relevant? It's about as relevant as your listing magicka abilities that are unreflectable. The question is not "Are there any unreflectable magicka abilities", but "Are there sufficiently unreflectable magicka abilities that can be combined into a viable build (for sorcs)". And unfortunately the answer to the latter is "no".
- Pets: have their own issues and I included a pet in my post.
- Mines: given their cost and time consumption and the fact that you can easily avoid them they are not really viable or sufficient. The problem is the lack
- Are you seriously suggesting using Streak to deal damage despite it's ever increasing penalty and relatively low damage? That's just desperate!
- Encase and Rune Cage: their damage is surely going to kill the DK. In fact, it is so huge that sorcs frequently don't slot any spammable, CFrag, and Curse but use Encase and Rune Cage instead to deal damage. All the top damage dealers are doing it!
- Boundless Storm: ticks for 500 and is not killing enemies left, right, and center like you think.
- Lightning Splash: between the small radius, the delay, and cost this skill barely hits anything mobile.
- Soul Trap: Did I miss anything? When did that skill start dealing any meaningful damage? It ticks for like 400 DPS
- Soul Strike: only really works as a sort of execute since the damage is easily blockable/out-healable. But unfortunately you won't get the DK low enough as a sorc.
- Meteor: just not enough in combination with the other viable skills to kill any winged DK+ way too easy to block.
- Fire Rune: essentially same issues as Mines
- Wall of Elements: similar issue as with Lightning Splash (little bit less severe)
As you can see I am just kidding. There is actually a huge sorc consipracy where we don't use these abilities in our builds just so that we can get some minor quality of life changes. We met back in 2014 when the game came out and hatched this plan. And every sorc is part of it.
On a more serious note, you are also incorrect in your assessment that only Frags are the issue. In fact, Frags are not the issue - in fact I think it is good that it is reflectable, as it allows wings to prevent a complete sorc burst combo. The issue is the lack of sustainable damage / pressure ever since sorcs were forced to use Master Staves with Destructive Reach. B/c unless you build specifically for fighting winged DKs and cripple your character against all other opponents you only bring Curse, (potentially) Execute, and an Ultimate to the fight. And that's just not enough. Meteor is easily blocked / countered. The same is true for Soul Assault if the target is not already low on HP (which it won't be from just Curse). Dawnbreaker is just not dealing enough damage in combination with Curse to get the winged DK (or any target for that matter) into execute range.
The solution is quite simple, make Force Pulse / Crushing shock viable again by giving sorc a viable stun - e.g. make Rune Cage undodgeable again. Otherwise there is no reason to waste a bar slot on an ability that deals far less damage and would consume an additional global cooldown every few seconds.It is the same scenario I have to face when dealing with a magsorc: Should I go for 5 Torug's + 5 Knight Slayer to get through shields with oblivion dmg? Of course, it will work agains sorcs, but it won't work against a Templar in my face. You cannot go on Cyro believing you can kill everyone, ther must be counters and to work around those counters you must work on you playing style, or on your items.
No it's not. You can break shields with any damage ability you bring along, thus, letting you freely choose what abilities to add to your build and thus no crippling your build against others. The same is neither true for fights against dodgers, blockers, cloakers, or wannabe dragons flapping their wings.DK needs wings to survive ranged playstyle, otherwise the class would be unplayable. It was unplayable some time ago when wings were not even used because they provided nothing. Now they are used because they give some snare inmunity, but they are far from being great skills. Have you think about what happens to a DK when he finds a good Stamden or a Stamplar? Wings doesn't save you from those guys. Or when a NBs drops behind you with SA + Incap. You are pretty much dead before you realize there was a NB around.
So yours argument is, b/c stambuilds can completely ignore wings sorcs and magblades should get screwed by wings? That's some solid reasoning: "My fence is useless against birds, let's kill everything that walks".
Also the usefulness of wings against sorcs has not changed since they made meteor unreflectable. Sorcs are still using the same class abilities as back then and they are still and have been as reflectable as they were back then. So obviously, not sorcs are the issue but other classes. So your arguement that allowing sorcs more pressure against winged DKs would be imbalanced is mute.On top of that, while some stamDK can use wings to counter key attacks, they cannot keep them up 100% of the time because they don't have the magicka pool enough to do that. On the contrary, while MDKs can have wings up all the day and tomorrow, they have a very, very weak stam pool. If you want to kill a mDK spamming wings, go for his stam. CC him, make him dodge roll and the DK will be dead pretty soon. He can spamm wings all the day, but it also means he cannot use the magicka to attack. any mDK kills its enemy just controlling the field, if you get the control of the fight before he does, you win.
And mag sorcs and magblades got an abundance of stamina? Your arguement works the other way around too. Only that DKs just need to employ 1 ability to both stun and root their opponent forcing them to break free twice in a row, while sorcs and magblades have to use 2 abilities for that. And due to the loss of damage/pressure, cost, and lack of bar space usually only carry a stun, thus putting only half as much pressure on the mDKs stamina pool than mDKs is putting on theirs. And that's before accounting for the absurd slows DKs additionally put on their targets requiring the targets to sprint more - while at least sorcs rarely ever slow their target due to the lack of a viable slow that fits into their builds - and don't start with wall of elements and Icestaff ... just take a look above.In the entire dmg toolkit dodgeable? No, just the skills sorcs rely more are dodgeable. You can easily weave pulse + rune cage and the stam build can dodge both, but at the price of getting increased cost on it's dodges. Sorcs are not easy to kill because they are bad, they are easy to kill because they are predictable. An unpredictable sorc is much more dangerous than anything in Cyro, because you don't know what comes next, and what come next it is always worst than what you imagined.
I won't go into the "sorcs got plenty of undodable abilities" arguement down here again. Just so much: these perma-dodgers are build for it and they would dodge anyway no matter if it's rune cage you throw at them or some other ability. The "cost increase" is rather laughable for stamblades (99.9% of perma dodgers), since the cost can be reduced by medium armor, the armor trait well-fitted, and CPs (which can't be done for any magicka defensive tools btw) and the penalty is "resetted" using cloak - so they can keep the cost sufficiently low to allow the perma dodging when they are not hiding in cloak.
And of course sorc are predictable. They have to set up a combo if they want to have any chance of killing their opponent. And the f***ing meteor screams "WATCH OUT HERE I COME, YOU BETTER PRESS THAT BLOCK KEY" 3 days in advance. I think what you categorize as an unpredicttable sorc is when you are overconfidently chasing after a sorc that barely scratched your HP bar b/c you were spamming your wings and in your zeal drop your guard and are then dumbstruck when the sorc turns around and hits your will a full combo. That's not the sorc being unpredictable, that's you being careless.Sorry, no. If they do that, then they should make flame lash proc undodgeable again, while giving it back its stun, taking away that awful CD, making it again an 8mts skill instead the 7 mts while keeping it's original 0 cost. Because there were at least 5 nerfs to only one skill that wasn't even overperforming. Anyway, as a DK I've learnt to use the skill in the conditions it is now. Maybe most sorcs should try the same
That has absolutely nothing to do with it. And if you want to compare Flame Lash to a sorc ability it's most appropriate counterpart would be Frags. The counterpart to Rune Cage is Fossilize, which is not only undodgeable, but also adds a free root afterwards.
You just don't want to get stunned by sorcs, that's all. You enjoy the status quo where you are OP against sorcs b/c they can't really deal any significant damage to you and rarely ever stun you since they are forced to use Flame Reach and that's reflectable.Edited by Galarthor on March 20, 2019 10:20PM0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ok, first of all it is the other way around: everything except frags is unreflectable. Curse and fury are unreflectable, same as pet attacks. As @Minalan pointed out, mines, streak and encase are also unrefletable. Boudless storm, rune, lightning splash... none of them is reflectable. Talking about skills outside the cass skills, you have force pulse Wall of elements and impulse. You can add both skills in the soul magick tree (Ulti and soul trap). Vamps also have Bat and drain essence. In the Mague's guild you have Meteor and fire rune, while psijic adds time stop (though expensive), so there are a lot of skills to choose from, but the problem is frags and I understand that it could be very annoying having such strong skill reflected back to you. My only advice is this, avoid frags, that's all. Rely more on force pulse... I mean, if you proc the concussion effect, not only you are doing 8% extra dmg, but also extra dmg because the skill does more dmg to targets affected by status effects. Or you can try crushing shock and interrupt the DK while he's spamming wings.
And there is also Wrecking Blow, Volley, and Impale that are, amongst others, unreflectable. How is that relevant? It's about as relevant as your listing magicka abilities that are unreflectable. The question is not "Are there any unreflectable magicka abilities", but "Are there sufficiently unreflectable magicka abilities that can be combined into a viable build (for sorcs)". And unfortunately the answer to the latter is "no".
- Pets: have their own issues and I included a pet in my post.
- Mines: given their cost and time consumption and the fact that you can easily avoid them they are not really viable or sufficient. The problem is the lack
- Are you seriously suggesting using Streak to deal damage despite it's ever increasing penalty and relatively low damage? That's just desperate!
- Encase and Rune Cage: their damage is surely going to kill the DK. In fact, it is so huge that sorcs frequently don't slot any spammable, CFrag, and Curse but use Encase and Rune Cage instead to deal damage. All the top damage dealers are doing it!
- Boundless Storm: ticks for 500 and is not killing enemies left, right, and center like you think.
- Lightning Splash: between the small radius, the delay, and cost this skill barely hits anything mobile.
- Soul Trap: Did I miss anything? When did that skill start dealing any meaningful damage? It ticks for like 400 DPS
- Soul Strike: only really works as a sort of execute since the damage is easily blockable/out-healable. But unfortunately you won't get the DK low enough as a sorc.
- Meteor: just not enough in combination with the other viable skills to kill any winged DK+ way too easy to block.
- Fire Rune: essentially same issues as Mines
- Wall of Elements: similar issue as with Lightning Splash (little bit less severe)
As you can see I am just kidding. There is actually a huge sorc consipracy where we don't use these abilities in our builds just so that we can get some minor quality of life changes. We met back in 2014 when the game came out and hatched this plan. And every sorc is part of it.
On a more serious note, you are also incorrect in your assessment that only Frags are the issue. In fact, Frags are not the issue - in fact I think it is good that it is reflectable, as it allows wings to prevent a complete sorc burst combo. The issue is the lack of sustainable damage / pressure ever since sorcs were forced to use Master Staves with Destructive Reach. B/c unless you build specifically for fighting winged DKs and cripple your character against all other opponents you only bring Curse, (potentially) Execute, and an Ultimate to the fight. And that's just not enough. Meteor is easily blocked / countered. The same is true for Soul Assault if the target is not already low on HP (which it won't be from just Curse). Dawnbreaker is just not dealing enough damage in combination with Curse to get the winged DK (or any target for that matter) into execute range.
The solution is quite simple, make Force Pulse / Crushing shock viable again by giving sorc a viable stun - e.g. make Rune Cage undodgeable again. Otherwise there is no reason to waste a bar slot on an ability that deals far less damage and would consume an additional global cooldown every few seconds.It is the same scenario I have to face when dealing with a magsorc: Should I go for 5 Torug's + 5 Knight Slayer to get through shields with oblivion dmg? Of course, it will work agains sorcs, but it won't work against a Templar in my face. You cannot go on Cyro believing you can kill everyone, ther must be counters and to work around those counters you must work on you playing style, or on your items.
No it's not. You can break shields with any damage ability you bring along, thus, letting you freely choose what abilities to add to your build and thus no crippling your build against others. The same is neither true for fights against dodgers, blockers, cloakers, or wannabe dragons flapping their wings.DK needs wings to survive ranged playstyle, otherwise the class would be unplayable. It was unplayable some time ago when wings were not even used because they provided nothing. Now they are used because they give some snare inmunity, but they are far from being great skills. Have you think about what happens to a DK when he finds a good Stamden or a Stamplar? Wings doesn't save you from those guys. Or when a NBs drops behind you with SA + Incap. You are pretty much dead before you realize there was a NB around.
So yours argument is, b/c stambuilds can completely ignore wings sorcs and magblades should get screwed by wings? That's some solid reasoning: "My fence is useless against birds, let's kill everything that walks".
Also the usefulness of wings against sorcs has not changed since they made meteor unreflectable. Sorcs are still using the same class abilities as back then and they are still and have been as reflectable as they were back then. So obviously, not sorcs are the issue but other classes. So your arguement that allowing sorcs more pressure against winged DKs would be imbalanced is mute.On top of that, while some stamDK can use wings to counter key attacks, they cannot keep them up 100% of the time because they don't have the magicka pool enough to do that. On the contrary, while MDKs can have wings up all the day and tomorrow, they have a very, very weak stam pool. If you want to kill a mDK spamming wings, go for his stam. CC him, make him dodge roll and the DK will be dead pretty soon. He can spamm wings all the day, but it also means he cannot use the magicka to attack. any mDK kills its enemy just controlling the field, if you get the control of the fight before he does, you win.
And mag sorcs and magblades got an abundance of stamina? Your arguement works the other way around too. Only that DKs just need to employ 1 ability to both stun and root their opponent forcing them to break free twice in a row, while sorcs and magblades have to use 2 abilities for that. And due to the loss of damage/pressure, cost, and lack of bar space usually only carry a stun, thus putting only half as much pressure on the mDKs stamina pool than mDKs is putting on theirs. And that's before accounting for the absurd slows DKs additionally put on their targets requiring the targets to sprint more - while at least sorcs rarely ever slow their target due to the lack of a viable slow that fits into their builds - and don't start with wall of elements and Icestaff ... just take a look above.In the entire dmg toolkit dodgeable? No, just the skills sorcs rely more are dodgeable. You can easily weave pulse + rune cage and the stam build can dodge both, but at the price of getting increased cost on it's dodges. Sorcs are not easy to kill because they are bad, they are easy to kill because they are predictable. An unpredictable sorc is much more dangerous than anything in Cyro, because you don't know what comes next, and what come next it is always worst than what you imagined.
I won't go into the "sorcs got plenty of undodable abilities" arguement down here again. Just so much: these perma-dodgers are build for it and they would dodge anyway no matter if it's rune cage you throw at them or some other ability. The "cost increase" is rather laughable for stamblades (99.9% of perma dodgers), since the cost can be reduced by medium armor, the armor trait well-fitted, and CPs (which can't be done for any magicka defensive tools btw) and the penalty is "resetted" using cloak - so they can keep the cost sufficiently low to allow the perma dodging when they are not hiding in cloak.
And of course sorc are predictable. They have to set up a combo if they want to have any chance of killing their opponent. And the f***ing meteor screams "WATCH OUT HERE I COME, YOU BETTER PRESS THAT BLOCK KEY" 3 days in advance. I think what you categorize as an unpredicttable sorc is when you are overconfidently chasing after a sorc that barely scratched your HP bar b/c you were spamming your wings and in your zeal drop your guard and are then dumbstruck when the sorc turns around and hits your will a full combo. That's not the sorc being unpredictable, that's you being careless.Sorry, no. If they do that, then they should make flame lash proc undodgeable again, while giving it back its stun, taking away that awful CD, making it again an 8mts skill instead the 7 mts while keeping it's original 0 cost. Because there were at least 5 nerfs to only one skill that wasn't even overperforming. Anyway, as a DK I've learnt to use the skill in the conditions it is now. Maybe most sorcs should try the same
That has absolutely nothing to do with it. And if you want to compare Flame Lash to a sorc ability it's most appropriate counterpart would be Frags. The counterpart to Rune Cage is Fossilize, which is not only undodgeable, but also adds a free root afterwards.
You just don't want to get stunned by sorcs, that's all. You enjoy the status quo where you are OP against sorcs b/c they can't really deal any significant damage to you and rarely ever stun you since they are forced to use Flame Reach and that's reflectable.
solid points
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tristat glyphs are meh, IMO. Sacrifice half of your main resource enchant for some health, basically. If you have enough health already, just a pure secondary resource glyph keeps your main stat up.
Tristat FOOD on the other hand has way more value than bistat or even the golden stat/sustain food. That one is actually overloaded.
Health and stamina from tri-glyphs we kind of need both now. The point is you give up like 1500 magicka, for 1500 of BOTH of the others on large pieces. It's arguably worth it, you need that to survive, and pump your shields.this is complete and total bs
things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc
pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen
Pets: We have the only elder scrolls conjuration skill line in the game, use it or lose it.
Breton: having a sustain fine piece set (Seducer) built into the race let's you spec more into DAMAGE. Like, the spell strategist set, that gives 1000 spell damage with major sorcery ffs. If you can't do damage with spell strat I don't even know what to say..
S&B: I'm sure you've heard of battle mages in ESO, they use armor and carry weapons.
For the life of me I can't imagine any other wizards that use a sword and a staff though...
With matriarch, you really don't need a resto stick back bar, think outside of the box. That's where you have both shields, dark deal, matriarch, and streak. None of which needs a staff.Edited by Minalan on March 21, 2019 4:58AM1 -
visionality✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Because my Frags crit for 7K on the Nightblade who just killed me with a 16K Assassin's Will?
I don't know what's going on on EU server, but Sorcs feel very underpowered on NA PC.
Its the same on EU PC. The certain class representative antagonizing ppl in this thread is struggling to hold his own on a DK vs. a magsorc. Which is pretty funny in itself. A bit sad too, though.2 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.Tristat glyphs are meh, IMO. Sacrifice half of your main resource enchant for some health, basically. If you have enough health already, just a pure secondary resource glyph keeps your main stat up.
Tristat FOOD on the other hand has way more value than bistat or even the golden stat/sustain food. That one is actually overloaded.
Health and stamina from tri-glyphs we kind of need both now. The point is you give up like 1500 magicka, for 1500 of BOTH of the others on large pieces. It's arguably worth it, you need that to survive, and pump your shields.this is complete and total bs
things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc
pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen
Pets: We have the only elder scrolls conjuration skill line in the game, use it or lose it.
Breton: having a sustain fine piece set (Seducer) built into the race let's you spec more into DAMAGE. Like, the spell strategist set, that gives 1000 spell damage with major sorcery ffs. If you can't do damage with spell strat I don't even know what to say..
S&B: I'm sure you've heard of battle mages in ESO, they use armor and carry weapons.
For the life of me I can't imagine any other wizards that use a sword and a staff though...
With matriarch, you really don't need a resto stick back bar, think outside of the box. That's where you have both shields, dark deal, matriarch, and streak. None of which needs a staff.
by god loosing the pets would be the best thing to happen to this class. please feel free to chuck them out the window and give us actual skills
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Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭visionality wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Because my Frags crit for 7K on the Nightblade who just killed me with a 16K Assassin's Will?
I don't know what's going on on EU server, but Sorcs feel very underpowered on NA PC.
Its the same on EU PC. The certain class representative antagonizing ppl in this thread is struggling to hold his own on a DK vs. a magsorc. Which is pretty funny in itself. A bit sad too, though.
Oh I guess because I am fair player and stick to tournament rules and dont use wings, which results in a fair fight
. Struggling means a 5 minutes fight with an open world build, right? Also I dont remember ever saying, that I am a good dueler, when I hop on my dk for some duels, but I still for fun duel the best duelers no matter what class I am on. Nice try tough.
I guess this thread will lose its meaning anyway in some days, when the first elsweyr changes will be announced.Edited by Checkmath on March 21, 2019 7:29AM2 -
NinchiTV✭✭✭✭✭visionality wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Because my Frags crit for 7K on the Nightblade who just killed me with a 16K Assassin's Will?
I don't know what's going on on EU server, but Sorcs feel very underpowered on NA PC.
Its the same on EU PC. The certain class representative antagonizing ppl in this thread is struggling to hold his own on a DK vs. a magsorc. Which is pretty funny in itself. A bit sad too, though.
Oh I guess because I am fair player and stick to tournament rules and dont use wings, which results in a fair fight. Struggling means a 5 minutes fight with an open world build, right? Also I dont remember ever saying, that I am a good dueler, when I hop on my dk for some duels, but I still for fun duel the best duelers no matter what class I am on. Nice try tough.
I guess this thread will lose its meaning anyway in some days, when the first elsweyr changes will be announced.
We are getting news in "some days" ? I hope you are right about my thread losing meaning in that appropriate changes will be coming to sorc. I really need that more then ever because i havent been this disinterested in ESO in 5 years.0