I miss magsorc

Derra

Checkmath wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

I miss dw sorc

I miss the days, were sorc qq actually was valid....oh wait.

Magsorc is considered the strongest magicka pvp class right now for duels and open world.
Battlegrounds get dominated by zoos, open world magsorcs have the best toolkit amongst magclasses to kite and lure out enemies till you can burst down one by one. In duels the spam of clench and weaving in the frags and curses deals extremely high damage with the amplitude passive. I am really not sure, why some people did not realize how strong magicka sorcerers are right now.

I honestly disagree with the statement that a sorc without pets (important) is the strongest magica dueling class.

Which is basically what you have to look at as pets do get heavily restricted in any form of player created content.

bardx86

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Any magsorcs in this thread arguing magsorcs are subpar or not close to other classes are living in a fantasy world. Magsorcs are arguable over performing in certain areas, and since pigeonholed Into matriarch builds and given recent pet buffs, perform very well open world and in duels. Hell you dont even need matriarch in duels. We've had sorcs place first in Legends tournaments without using matriarch.

Also I play 4 mag sorcs, so def no bias here.

But you're better off with the Matriarch. So how do you balance that? Nerf it so sorcs become meh again? Or leave it, but have the sorc struggle when the pet won't cooperate in Cyrodiil? Buff no-pet and risk pet build becoming OP?
See what I'm getting at? The class has flaws in its design that could really use a rework. And with our reps praising sorc here and there, I can already smell a nerf à là Rune Cage 2.0 incoming...
=/

Pet build becoming OP? They are already.
Non-pet builds also are strong, as Malamar wrote.
Not sure if you just blend stuff out, which does not match your opinion. Malamar clearly wrote that both specs of magsorcs, pet and non-pet are very strong. With pets it just starts to get obnoxious. The class needs some quality of life improvements, not changes to their tools.

Eh. Seen some overpowered stuff in this game. A single twilight really isn't on the same level. But okay, I think it's semantics only. So for argument's sake, let's say that twilight build is top tier. Plus, even. What will your discussion with ZOS be in the future? Will you suggest a nerf, as they're so strong? And what quality of life do you have in mind?

With quality of life stuff i meant some help for streak, not getting stuck at the end of the animation, no bugging anymore with being stuck in casting a ward, maybe some frag travel time increase... streak cost increase is fine and streak needs to be casted wisely, its not meant to be used more than 2 times in a row and the sustain can be covered by recasting wards and casting a dark deal between streaks to not get the cost penalty.

Matriarch does up to 2k damage with a single light attack in a duel. Its dps is actually better than the scamp. Thats 2k afk damage you do not have to work for. There is not a single dot in the game, which comes close to that. The damage is pretty much nuts and is a reason why 2 slots are justified for the matriarch.

Currently some topic, which came up in the discussion with many magsorc players, is the skill daedric prey (the pet curse), which enhances pets damage on the target tremendiously (also from proc pets like shadowrend or maw of infernal). Sorc players suggested changing that one into a dot ability instead delayed burst to help out in pve dps. But the buff to oets damage would need to be reevaluated.

The biggest issue with sorcs is the wrath is broken. If your reps haven't picked up on that then pick up new reps. With the narrow window a sorc has for burst it just can't not work. Second is prolly streaks animation is to slow it should work as fast a cloak. Frags doesn't cast correctly, my group just hates me as I'm yelling "cast" "cast" all the dam time over chat. If it does manage to fire off it misses for no reason at all. The class is clunky and i think that's what we are trying to say and why we don't think it's a top tier class.

Pets are lame and should just be removed imo.

Minalan

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Any magsorcs in this thread arguing magsorcs are subpar or not close to other classes are living in a fantasy world. Magsorcs are arguable over performing in certain areas, and since pigeonholed Into matriarch builds and given recent pet buffs, perform very well open world and in duels. Hell you dont even need matriarch in duels. We've had sorcs place first in Legends tournaments without using matriarch.

Also I play 4 mag sorcs, so def no bias here.

But you're better off with the Matriarch. So how do you balance that? Nerf it so sorcs become meh again? Or leave it, but have the sorc struggle when the pet won't cooperate in Cyrodiil? Buff no-pet and risk pet build becoming OP?
See what I'm getting at? The class has flaws in its design that could really use a rework. And with our reps praising sorc here and there, I can already smell a nerf à là Rune Cage 2.0 incoming...
=/

Pet build becoming OP? They are already.
Non-pet builds also are strong, as Malamar wrote.
Not sure if you just blend stuff out, which does not match your opinion. Malamar clearly wrote that both specs of magsorcs, pet and non-pet are very strong. With pets it just starts to get obnoxious. The class needs some quality of life improvements, not changes to their tools.

Eh. Seen some overpowered stuff in this game. A single twilight really isn't on the same level. But okay, I think it's semantics only. So for argument's sake, let's say that twilight build is top tier. Plus, even. What will your discussion with ZOS be in the future? Will you suggest a nerf, as they're so strong? And what quality of life do you have in mind?

A few ideas:

I'd suggest adding some sets that makes a non pet sorc competitive, like adding a magicka draugr hulk set. The best magicka stat set in the game is anchored to using a pet FFS, make something else that's competitive that doesn't require one.

I would also look into buffs to skills that pet sorcs can't fit and remain viable, like bound Aegis. Having 8 percent magicka is nice, but not when you switch bars, you have to double bar it to really get the most out of it. So make it *worth* two slots, why doesn't aegis skill add 8 percent health too? That would be worth the double slot, and it would make non pet sorc shields much stronger and more competitive.

I'd also look at buffing surge heals somehow, that's usually not a skill you use matriarch because it's redundant with a burst heal. But power surge isn't that great on its own, it can use some adjustment. I'd like to see sorc de-coupled from a resto staff, so we're free to use a sword and board if we want.

bardx86

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Any magsorcs in this thread arguing magsorcs are subpar or not close to other classes are living in a fantasy world. Magsorcs are arguable over performing in certain areas, and since pigeonholed Into matriarch builds and given recent pet buffs, perform very well open world and in duels. Hell you dont even need matriarch in duels. We've had sorcs place first in Legends tournaments without using matriarch.

Also I play 4 mag sorcs, so def no bias here.

But you're better off with the Matriarch. So how do you balance that? Nerf it so sorcs become meh again? Or leave it, but have the sorc struggle when the pet won't cooperate in Cyrodiil? Buff no-pet and risk pet build becoming OP?
See what I'm getting at? The class has flaws in its design that could really use a rework. And with our reps praising sorc here and there, I can already smell a nerf à là Rune Cage 2.0 incoming...
=/

Pet build becoming OP? They are already.
Non-pet builds also are strong, as Malamar wrote.
Not sure if you just blend stuff out, which does not match your opinion. Malamar clearly wrote that both specs of magsorcs, pet and non-pet are very strong. With pets it just starts to get obnoxious. The class needs some quality of life improvements, not changes to their tools.

Eh. Seen some overpowered stuff in this game. A single twilight really isn't on the same level. But okay, I think it's semantics only. So for argument's sake, let's say that twilight build is top tier. Plus, even. What will your discussion with ZOS be in the future? Will you suggest a nerf, as they're so strong? And what quality of life do you have in mind?

With quality of life stuff i meant some help for streak, not getting stuck at the end of the animation, no bugging anymore with being stuck in casting a ward, maybe some frag travel time increase... streak cost increase is fine and streak needs to be casted wisely, its not meant to be used more than 2 times in a row and the sustain can be covered by recasting wards and casting a dark deal between streaks to not get the cost penalty.

Matriarch does up to 2k damage with a single light attack in a duel. Its dps is actually better than the scamp. Thats 2k afk damage you do not have to work for. There is not a single dot in the game, which comes close to that. The damage is pretty much nuts and is a reason why 2 slots are justified for the matriarch.

Currently some topic, which came up in the discussion with many magsorc players, is the skill daedric prey (the pet curse), which enhances pets damage on the target tremendiously (also from proc pets like shadowrend or maw of infernal). Sorc players suggested changing that one into a dot ability instead delayed burst to help out in pve dps. But the buff to oets damage would need to be reevaluated.

The bold piece is completely wrong. It's a kiting tool that we can't use to kite. We should be able to streak a couple of times, cast some damage skills and streak some more. As it is we can't. Reduce the stacking cost timer to 1-2 seconds. I suppose cloak or wings are not meant to be used more that 2 times in a row as well? It amazes me that a developer or a class rep can believe that a class having the only stacking cost in the game is ok. It's simple a terrible idea.

Xarc

Sorcs are now like other classes.
Do you miss the time they were overpowered ?

Cathexis

Iskiab wrote: »

Butchered? Totally a L2P issue. They’re stronger in pvp now then before the last patch, their burst has improved.

They’re a solid pvp clas.

I think the issue being addressed here needs to be framed correctly..

Balance has been pushed too far in favour of tank classes. I prefer more dynamic, active defensive play, but for whatever reason passive defenses have been balanced to be stronger than active, reactive defenses. To me this makes no sense, since less effort should = less defense.

This balance has shifted, particularly in cyrodiil, particularly in the cp campaign, in such a way that two equally skilled players can whack at each other indefinitely, and the balance is only disrupted by outnumbering that player (as a general experience).

Before, the gameplay dynamic offered a lot more opportunity to disrupt this balance as a solo player, especially in early patches, which was what allowed for Dynamics where small numbers or solo players could overcome large numbers by engaging tactically.

Nerfs such as those implemented to sorcs, and other classes, and the ability to face tank with nothing but a bucket hat while doing pool noodle damage has slowed combat and lowered the risk level for grouped players.

This lowered risk for groups has also been reinforced further with excessive group enhancing benefits from various sources and making seige into nerf cannons.

The end result is endlessly rotating fights and cakewalk zergery.

NOTE: I DO believe players should be able to survive through ACTIVE play, engaging intelligently (not nose diving into a meat grinder zerg), and through active abilities that offer countermeasures to being under focus fire.

I do NOT believe players should ever be able to stand still, under any circumstances, group or otherwise and take no damage, without doing anything, while being attacked.

Witar

Shields are stronger then they were before, just need to build it with close to softcapped resists.

NinchiTV

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Butchered? Totally a L2P issue. They’re stronger in pvp now then before the last patch, their burst has improved.

They’re a solid pvp clas.

I think the issue being addressed here needs to be framed correctly..

Balance has been pushed too far in favour of tank classes. I prefer more dynamic, active defensive play, but for whatever reason passive defenses have been balanced to be stronger than active, reactive defenses. To me this makes no sense, since less effort should = less defense.

This balance has shifted, particularly in cyrodiil, particularly in the cp campaign, in such a way that two equally skilled players can whack at each other indefinitely, and the balance is only disrupted by outnumbering that player (as a general experience).

Before, the gameplay dynamic offered a lot more opportunity to disrupt this balance as a solo player, especially in early patches, which was what allowed for Dynamics where small numbers or solo players could overcome large numbers by engaging tactically.

Nerfs such as those implemented to sorcs, and other classes, and the ability to face tank with nothing but a bucket hat while doing pool noodle damage has slowed combat and lowered the risk level for grouped players.

This lowered risk for groups has also been reinforced further with excessive group enhancing benefits from various sources and making seige into nerf cannons.

The end result is endlessly rotating fights and cakewalk zergery.

NOTE: I DO believe players should be able to survive through ACTIVE play, engaging intelligently (not nose diving into a meat grinder zerg), and through active abilities that offer countermeasures to being under focus fire.

I do NOT believe players should ever be able to stand still, under any circumstances, group or otherwise and take no damage, without doing anything, while being attacked.

Couldnt say it any better.

PhoenixGrey

Xvorg wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment

High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.

Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !

All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !

The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !

You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.

If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.

I never said addressing a hard counter means removing it all together. I have no problems with dk wings by itself. Can give you an example.

What if a dk chain pulls you and another one root spams you with bleeds and a nightblade from stealth spams shieldbreaker.
What's ur counterplay here ?

I could streak away if I didnt have the trash delay on the skill. I have been fossilized chain pulled while my streak was going off lol. Even worse if I m on an incline and streak wont work at all.
Can't shield or you will die faster that way.
Even if I run a pet and heal under my shields, oh wait shields are smaller after nerf and bleeds eat right through.
Cant go offensive because the frag which took a million years to hit the nightblade missed because he cloaked midway through a 1m projectile distance

The so called QOL improvements passed about by class reps and other sorcs are really the ones which actually matter here. Skilled gameplay in this game keeps going backward every patch. You need simple fixes to buff mag sorc and mostly revert dumb changes. I did not ask for a buff to enable the class to have a ridiculous 30k resist on shields and LOS behind 2 pets and then call sorc OP coz it can wipe braindead zergs now. With the recent changes the class has gotten
much easier to play. Any noob can pick this class up now and 1vx zergs. But on a competitive level the class keeps getting nerfed every patch.

My solutions dont involve a ground breaking buff to sorc or a nerf to DK although a nerf to shieldbreaker is warranted. I hope the class rep here @Checkmath here understands this point of view as I assume they understand the game better than I do. I want this class to perform better at a competitive level that's all.

ezio45

this is complete and total bs

things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc

pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
run atro when no other class has to run a recovery stone to have decent sustain
sacrifice jewelry trait when no other class has too
sacrifice dmg glyphs for sustain when no other class has too
use regen food, am i suppose to fun that or tri stat
run a sustain set or am i suppose to run a defense set not cuz i cant have both with shackle
run a sustain set when no other class has to

ya know what i want to *** run

shackle, lich skoria, potent brew, dmg glyph and arcane jewelry on an altmer with a *** restore mag weap glyph on one bar with a shock gplyph on other in all divs

and not be *** in the ass by it because *** rob garret and wrobel were idiots with 0 *** clue on how mag sorc is suppose to run or play and forced to run a *** ton of restriction THAT NO OTHER *** CLASS HAS

Forced to invest in all 3 res pools
forced to build for sustain
now were forced to run a defensive set in DIRECT *** OPPOSITION TO THE ABOVE MENTIONED SUSTAIN SET
to compensate for that we gotta run sustain glyphs which no other god damn *** class has to do
loose all divs because we need impen now just like every other class but they arnt forced to also loose there dmg sets
forced to run tri stat glyphs when hell, stam gets to use maybe 2 health glyph on chest and legs and can go all all stam on everything else. And i dont wanna *** hear that stam has to invest in mag. They can CHOOSE to to get some utility, there not doing to get there ass kicked as a direct result of not having it.
forced to run twilight which is a double bar'd breath of life lite that can die that requires a giant ass bird *** to be in your damn way

meanwhile you got some dumb ass stamden with 7th legion and ravanger in all *** divs with infused dmg glyphs jewelry running damn bi stat food in all stam armor glyphs *** dawnbreaker and spinning to win thru all the *** *** i just added to supposedly make my shields not pathetic asf and i have 0 things for my spell damage but an altmer passive dealing *** poor damage that vigor can heal thru

this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen

Ariades_swe

ezio45 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

I'd like to add to this. I can't believe a class rep is saying this and it makes me reevaluate if the class reps know what they are talking about. Sustain sucks! Mages wrath in addition to being able to be dodged twice is flat out broken, if the target moves too fast after the initial cast it will not land, this is being exploited to no end. Streak cost to dam much for how slow it is 80% of the time you get knocked down before the skills animation finishes, why doesn't this work as fast as cloak? Frags misses twice as much as it land and its to dam slow as well, I'm not talking about it being dodged either it just will miss. Over all the Sorc skills are to unreliable.

I'm not saying you can't be successful on a Sorc but its a very frustrating play style as the feel of the skills are off. To call them top tier is a flat out lie.

Yaaa i wasnt going to say anything but i really really hope this guy is a minority among the reps when they talk about sorc.

Well I guess either a few people on the forum or the entire class rep team, some of the best open world pvper and dueler and a the whole sorc class discord is wrong then....

You can choose

thats the problem, Some of the BEST. not everyone is at that lvl and the average not pet sorc is getting annihilated by everything else even at the same skill lvl

ya there are extremely good sorc but the average sorc is getting blown tf away by everything

Lmao

Emma_Overload

This thread is very disturbing, and it scares me that ZOS may be making decisions based on the opinions of players that spend a lot of time in Battlegrounds or No-CP Cyrodiil or dueling. I really don't think it's a good idea to balance Sorc for these activities, because CP Cyrodiil is where the vast majority of the PvP action is.

I admit that my own perspective may also be biased, because I spend so much time in the Imperial City, but I do find that my occasional experiences in "open world" Cyrodiil are very similar. I also find it hard to believe that European Nightblades and DKs are so weak that EU Sorcs aren't bothered by the ridiculous advantages they enjoy.

Urvoth

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This thread is very disturbing, and it scares me that ZOS may be making decisions based on the opinions of players that spend a lot of time in Battlegrounds or No-CP Cyrodiil or dueling. I really don't think it's a good idea to balance Sorc for these activities, because CP Cyrodiil is where the vast majority of the PvP action is.

I admit that my own perspective may also be biased, because I spend so much time in the Imperial City, but I do find that my occasional experiences in "open world" Cyrodiil are very similar. I also find it hard to believe that European Nightblades and DKs are so weak that EU Sorcs aren't bothered by the ridiculous advantages they enjoy.

BGs and non CP is a better PvP environment, and class capabilities are far better demonstrated in a structured mode like BGs, where players are generally playing against enemies of similar skill levels.

Emma_Overload

Urvoth wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This thread is very disturbing, and it scares me that ZOS may be making decisions based on the opinions of players that spend a lot of time in Battlegrounds or No-CP Cyrodiil or dueling. I really don't think it's a good idea to balance Sorc for these activities, because CP Cyrodiil is where the vast majority of the PvP action is.

I admit that my own perspective may also be biased, because I spend so much time in the Imperial City, but I do find that my occasional experiences in "open world" Cyrodiil are very similar. I also find it hard to believe that European Nightblades and DKs are so weak that EU Sorcs aren't bothered by the ridiculous advantages they enjoy.

BGs and non CP is a better PvP environment, and class capabilities are far better demonstrated in a structured mode like BGs, where players are generally playing against enemies of similar skill levels.

Even if that's true, Vivec is where the masses are fighting. Why should the game be balanced around the minority of conflicts?

Priyasekarssk

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This thread is very disturbing, and it scares me that ZOS may be making decisions based on the opinions of players that spend a lot of time in Battlegrounds or No-CP Cyrodiil or dueling. I really don't think it's a good idea to balance Sorc for these activities, because CP Cyrodiil is where the vast majority of the PvP action is.

I admit that my own perspective may also be biased, because I spend so much time in the Imperial City, but I do find that my occasional experiences in "open world" Cyrodiil are very similar. I also find it hard to believe that European Nightblades and DKs are so weak that EU Sorcs aren't bothered by the ridiculous advantages they enjoy.

I dont think ZOs is making decison on real data. If yes, DKs , NBs and stam wardens would have been strong nerf hammer. 4 DK or warden group just stream roll everyone. Strategy is very simple. One DK will do a fossilize and all noobs will jump on 1 CCed guy. Then next then next. These noobs call themselves pros this is the only strategy they have. Same with NB. All NBs target the person with CC . It wont break either. In High MMR BGs its a cancer. Another cancer is werewolf.
If you have atleast 2 competent DKS or wardens in your team you win. Otherwise you will lose. If you have 2-3 mage sorc in your team you will most probably lose if opponent have DKs or wardens. If you have 4 mage sorc , mostly you will lose in third place. Equation is very simple.
Next patch these pathetic noobs will cry whine and nerf some other things in magic sorcs and NBs/DKs will be buffed again. Orc will be buffed again.
If I am combat balance team, I would just kick these idiots out and make balance based on real data and factual information.

NinchiTV

I will say that sorc both mag and stam are solid in non cp and the only pvp that console gets is BGs or CP, our non cp has been dead for years. So i really hope reps dont just make judgments based on bgs and non cp but ALSO cp.

Ultimate_Overlord

ezio45 wrote: »

this is complete and total bs

things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc

pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
run atro when no other class has to run a recovery stone to have decent sustain
sacrifice jewelry trait when no other class has too
sacrifice dmg glyphs for sustain when no other class has too
use regen food, am i suppose to fun that or tri stat
run a sustain set or am i suppose to run a defense set not cuz i cant have both with shackle
run a sustain set when no other class has to

ya know what i want to *** run

shackle, lich skoria, potent brew, dmg glyph and arcane jewelry on an altmer with a *** restore mag weap glyph on one bar with a shock gplyph on other in all divs

and not be *** in the ass by it because *** rob garret and wrobel were idiots with 0 *** clue on how mag sorc is suppose to run or play and forced to run a *** ton of restriction THAT NO OTHER *** CLASS HAS

Forced to invest in all 3 res pools
forced to build for sustain
now were forced to run a defensive set in DIRECT *** OPPOSITION TO THE ABOVE MENTIONED SUSTAIN SET
to compensate for that we gotta run sustain glyphs which no other god damn *** class has to do
loose all divs because we need impen now just like every other class but they arnt forced to also loose there dmg sets
forced to run tri stat glyphs when hell, stam gets to use maybe 2 health glyph on chest and legs and can go all all stam on everything else. And i dont wanna *** hear that stam has to invest in mag. They can CHOOSE to to get some utility, there not doing to get there ass kicked as a direct result of not having it.
forced to run twilight which is a double bar'd breath of life lite that can die that requires a giant ass bird *** to be in your damn way

meanwhile you got some dumb ass stamden with 7th legion and ravanger in all *** divs with infused dmg glyphs jewelry running damn bi stat food in all stam armor glyphs *** dawnbreaker and spinning to win thru all the *** *** i just added to supposedly make my shields not pathetic asf and i have 0 things for my spell damage but an altmer passive dealing *** poor damage that vigor can heal thru

this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen

Literally every magicka class would like to have a word with you

ezio45

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

this is complete and total bs

things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc

pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
run atro when no other class has to run a recovery stone to have decent sustain
sacrifice jewelry trait when no other class has too
sacrifice dmg glyphs for sustain when no other class has too
use regen food, am i suppose to fun that or tri stat
run a sustain set or am i suppose to run a defense set not cuz i cant have both with shackle
run a sustain set when no other class has to

ya know what i want to *** run

shackle, lich skoria, potent brew, dmg glyph and arcane jewelry on an altmer with a *** restore mag weap glyph on one bar with a shock gplyph on other in all divs

and not be *** in the ass by it because *** rob garret and wrobel were idiots with 0 *** clue on how mag sorc is suppose to run or play and forced to run a *** ton of restriction THAT NO OTHER *** CLASS HAS

Forced to invest in all 3 res pools
forced to build for sustain
now were forced to run a defensive set in DIRECT *** OPPOSITION TO THE ABOVE MENTIONED SUSTAIN SET
to compensate for that we gotta run sustain glyphs which no other god damn *** class has to do
loose all divs because we need impen now just like every other class but they arnt forced to also loose there dmg sets
forced to run tri stat glyphs when hell, stam gets to use maybe 2 health glyph on chest and legs and can go all all stam on everything else. And i dont wanna *** hear that stam has to invest in mag. They can CHOOSE to to get some utility, there not doing to get there ass kicked as a direct result of not having it.
forced to run twilight which is a double bar'd breath of life lite that can die that requires a giant ass bird *** to be in your damn way

meanwhile you got some dumb ass stamden with 7th legion and ravanger in all *** divs with infused dmg glyphs jewelry running damn bi stat food in all stam armor glyphs *** dawnbreaker and spinning to win thru all the *** *** i just added to supposedly make my shields not pathetic asf and i have 0 things for my spell damage but an altmer passive dealing *** poor damage that vigor can heal thru

this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen

Literally every magicka class would like to have a word with you

not really, alcast hq. go look at the set ups.

ya theres all something but look at sorc compared to the others

2 non offensive sets: sorc, plar
non offensive monster set: sorc, warden(no monster set)
classes that are running 2 non offensive sets with with recovery glyphs: sorc, plar
protective on jewelry: sorc, warden, plar (optional)
absorb mag enchant: sorc, warden
atro mundus stone: all
potent brew: all
has to back bar resto: dk, nb, sorc, warden

ya notice how sorc tics every box, the next 2 most frequent are warden and plar and i wouldnt say there great atm either but even they are not slammed with as much non offensive *** as sorc

and dont get me wrong, im not saying the other mag classes are going great either. just the opposite, we are all *** trash. zos has failed mag HARDCORE this yr. The only stam class that is even close to as trash as mag is stam sorc and even then stam sorc is beating everything but mdk. But non pet msorc is the most *** outta all the mag classes

Checkmath

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

this is complete and total bs

things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc

pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
run atro when no other class has to run a recovery stone to have decent sustain
sacrifice jewelry trait when no other class has too
sacrifice dmg glyphs for sustain when no other class has too
use regen food, am i suppose to fun that or tri stat
run a sustain set or am i suppose to run a defense set not cuz i cant have both with shackle
run a sustain set when no other class has to

ya know what i want to *** run

shackle, lich skoria, potent brew, dmg glyph and arcane jewelry on an altmer with a *** restore mag weap glyph on one bar with a shock gplyph on other in all divs

and not be *** in the ass by it because *** rob garret and wrobel were idiots with 0 *** clue on how mag sorc is suppose to run or play and forced to run a *** ton of restriction THAT NO OTHER *** CLASS HAS

Forced to invest in all 3 res pools
forced to build for sustain
now were forced to run a defensive set in DIRECT *** OPPOSITION TO THE ABOVE MENTIONED SUSTAIN SET
to compensate for that we gotta run sustain glyphs which no other god damn *** class has to do
loose all divs because we need impen now just like every other class but they arnt forced to also loose there dmg sets
forced to run tri stat glyphs when hell, stam gets to use maybe 2 health glyph on chest and legs and can go all all stam on everything else. And i dont wanna *** hear that stam has to invest in mag. They can CHOOSE to to get some utility, there not doing to get there ass kicked as a direct result of not having it.
forced to run twilight which is a double bar'd breath of life lite that can die that requires a giant ass bird *** to be in your damn way

meanwhile you got some dumb ass stamden with 7th legion and ravanger in all *** divs with infused dmg glyphs jewelry running damn bi stat food in all stam armor glyphs *** dawnbreaker and spinning to win thru all the *** *** i just added to supposedly make my shields not pathetic asf and i have 0 things for my spell damage but an altmer passive dealing *** poor damage that vigor can heal thru

this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen

Literally every magicka class would like to have a word with you

Just wanted to say the same, that actually every mag class runs tristat glyphs, heck even stamclasses do, when they profit from some magicka utility skills, because tristat glyphs grant the biggest stat density.

Also magicka damage dealers in light armor are mostly forced to run protective jewelry, because the damage taken in pure light armor is just too high. Or they run a monsterset like pirate skeleton. But yeah i guess magsorc is the only class, which needs to have sustain, tristat glyphs, recovery glyphs or sustain sets in pvp.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This thread is very disturbing, and it scares me that ZOS may be making decisions based on the opinions of players that spend a lot of time in Battlegrounds or No-CP Cyrodiil or dueling. I really don't think it's a good idea to balance Sorc for these activities, because CP Cyrodiil is where the vast majority of the PvP action is.

I admit that my own perspective may also be biased, because I spend so much time in the Imperial City, but I do find that my occasional experiences in "open world" Cyrodiil are very similar. I also find it hard to believe that European Nightblades and DKs are so weak that EU Sorcs aren't bothered by the ridiculous advantages they enjoy.

Why do you think, that ZOS would balance around no-cp pvp and bgs? It does not make sense to balance PvP around no-cp environment, when the open world community mostly plays on Vivec (just a small reminder, that balancing for the mass is not necessarily the way to go) and the whole PvE content has cps enabled.

bardx86 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Any magsorcs in this thread arguing magsorcs are subpar or not close to other classes are living in a fantasy world. Magsorcs are arguable over performing in certain areas, and since pigeonholed Into matriarch builds and given recent pet buffs, perform very well open world and in duels. Hell you dont even need matriarch in duels. We've had sorcs place first in Legends tournaments without using matriarch.

Also I play 4 mag sorcs, so def no bias here.

But you're better off with the Matriarch. So how do you balance that? Nerf it so sorcs become meh again? Or leave it, but have the sorc struggle when the pet won't cooperate in Cyrodiil? Buff no-pet and risk pet build becoming OP?
See what I'm getting at? The class has flaws in its design that could really use a rework. And with our reps praising sorc here and there, I can already smell a nerf à là Rune Cage 2.0 incoming...
=/

Pet build becoming OP? They are already.
Non-pet builds also are strong, as Malamar wrote.
Not sure if you just blend stuff out, which does not match your opinion. Malamar clearly wrote that both specs of magsorcs, pet and non-pet are very strong. With pets it just starts to get obnoxious. The class needs some quality of life improvements, not changes to their tools.

Eh. Seen some overpowered stuff in this game. A single twilight really isn't on the same level. But okay, I think it's semantics only. So for argument's sake, let's say that twilight build is top tier. Plus, even. What will your discussion with ZOS be in the future? Will you suggest a nerf, as they're so strong? And what quality of life do you have in mind?

With quality of life stuff i meant some help for streak, not getting stuck at the end of the animation, no bugging anymore with being stuck in casting a ward, maybe some frag travel time increase... streak cost increase is fine and streak needs to be casted wisely, its not meant to be used more than 2 times in a row and the sustain can be covered by recasting wards and casting a dark deal between streaks to not get the cost penalty.

Matriarch does up to 2k damage with a single light attack in a duel. Its dps is actually better than the scamp. Thats 2k afk damage you do not have to work for. There is not a single dot in the game, which comes close to that. The damage is pretty much nuts and is a reason why 2 slots are justified for the matriarch.

Currently some topic, which came up in the discussion with many magsorc players, is the skill daedric prey (the pet curse), which enhances pets damage on the target tremendiously (also from proc pets like shadowrend or maw of infernal). Sorc players suggested changing that one into a dot ability instead delayed burst to help out in pve dps. But the buff to oets damage would need to be reevaluated.

The bold piece is completely wrong. It's a kiting tool that we can't use to kite. We should be able to streak a couple of times, cast some damage skills and streak some more. As it is we can't. Reduce the stacking cost timer to 1-2 seconds. I suppose cloak or wings are not meant to be used more that 2 times in a row as well? It amazes me that a developer or a class rep can believe that a class having the only stacking cost in the game is ok. It's simple a terrible idea.

Well I guess, that streak penalty is too high, when even I, who does not play magsorc too often, can streak for eternity by avoiding the penalty after every second streak cast. I mean, the penalty is already gone, if you just cast a few abilities between streaks and maybe do a dodgeroll. I think when you try streaking multiple times (3 and more) without avoiding the penalty, you are doing something wrong and also leaves you vulnerable. Recast your shields, cast a dark deal to recover some magicka you just lost by streaking and the penalty is already gone. With two times streaking you should have reached the next obstacle, behind which you can safely cast dark deal.

I didnt say, that it is ok, that streak is the only skill with a penalty cost. But i say, that the penalty is justified, but I agree that there are skills, which could be treated the same.

Ultimate_Overlord

ezio45 wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

this is complete and total bs

things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc

pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
run atro when no other class has to run a recovery stone to have decent sustain
sacrifice jewelry trait when no other class has too
sacrifice dmg glyphs for sustain when no other class has too
use regen food, am i suppose to fun that or tri stat
run a sustain set or am i suppose to run a defense set not cuz i cant have both with shackle
run a sustain set when no other class has to

ya know what i want to *** run

shackle, lich skoria, potent brew, dmg glyph and arcane jewelry on an altmer with a *** restore mag weap glyph on one bar with a shock gplyph on other in all divs

and not be *** in the ass by it because *** rob garret and wrobel were idiots with 0 *** clue on how mag sorc is suppose to run or play and forced to run a *** ton of restriction THAT NO OTHER *** CLASS HAS

Forced to invest in all 3 res pools
forced to build for sustain
now were forced to run a defensive set in DIRECT *** OPPOSITION TO THE ABOVE MENTIONED SUSTAIN SET
to compensate for that we gotta run sustain glyphs which no other god damn *** class has to do
loose all divs because we need impen now just like every other class but they arnt forced to also loose there dmg sets
forced to run tri stat glyphs when hell, stam gets to use maybe 2 health glyph on chest and legs and can go all all stam on everything else. And i dont wanna *** hear that stam has to invest in mag. They can CHOOSE to to get some utility, there not doing to get there ass kicked as a direct result of not having it.
forced to run twilight which is a double bar'd breath of life lite that can die that requires a giant ass bird *** to be in your damn way

meanwhile you got some dumb ass stamden with 7th legion and ravanger in all *** divs with infused dmg glyphs jewelry running damn bi stat food in all stam armor glyphs *** dawnbreaker and spinning to win thru all the *** *** i just added to supposedly make my shields not pathetic asf and i have 0 things for my spell damage but an altmer passive dealing *** poor damage that vigor can heal thru

this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen

Literally every magicka class would like to have a word with you

not really, alcast hq. go look at the set ups.

ya theres all something but look at sorc compared to the others

2 non offensive sets: sorc, plar
non offensive monster set: sorc, warden(no monster set)
classes that are running 2 non offensive sets with with recovery glyphs: sorc, plar
protective on jewelry: sorc, warden, plar (optional)
absorb mag enchant: sorc, warden
atro mundus stone: all
potent brew: all
has to back bar resto: dk, nb, sorc, warden

ya notice how sorc tics every box, the next 2 most frequent are warden and plar and i wouldnt say there great atm either but even they are not slammed with as much non offensive *** as sorc

Am i really supposed to respond to that?

ezio45

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

this is complete and total bs

things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc

pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
run atro when no other class has to run a recovery stone to have decent sustain
sacrifice jewelry trait when no other class has too
sacrifice dmg glyphs for sustain when no other class has too
use regen food, am i suppose to fun that or tri stat
run a sustain set or am i suppose to run a defense set not cuz i cant have both with shackle
run a sustain set when no other class has to

ya know what i want to *** run

shackle, lich skoria, potent brew, dmg glyph and arcane jewelry on an altmer with a *** restore mag weap glyph on one bar with a shock gplyph on other in all divs

and not be *** in the ass by it because *** rob garret and wrobel were idiots with 0 *** clue on how mag sorc is suppose to run or play and forced to run a *** ton of restriction THAT NO OTHER *** CLASS HAS

Forced to invest in all 3 res pools
forced to build for sustain
now were forced to run a defensive set in DIRECT *** OPPOSITION TO THE ABOVE MENTIONED SUSTAIN SET
to compensate for that we gotta run sustain glyphs which no other god damn *** class has to do
loose all divs because we need impen now just like every other class but they arnt forced to also loose there dmg sets
forced to run tri stat glyphs when hell, stam gets to use maybe 2 health glyph on chest and legs and can go all all stam on everything else. And i dont wanna *** hear that stam has to invest in mag. They can CHOOSE to to get some utility, there not doing to get there ass kicked as a direct result of not having it.
forced to run twilight which is a double bar'd breath of life lite that can die that requires a giant ass bird *** to be in your damn way

meanwhile you got some dumb ass stamden with 7th legion and ravanger in all *** divs with infused dmg glyphs jewelry running damn bi stat food in all stam armor glyphs *** dawnbreaker and spinning to win thru all the *** *** i just added to supposedly make my shields not pathetic asf and i have 0 things for my spell damage but an altmer passive dealing *** poor damage that vigor can heal thru

this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen

Literally every magicka class would like to have a word with you

not really, alcast hq. go look at the set ups.

ya theres all something but look at sorc compared to the others

2 non offensive sets: sorc, plar
non offensive monster set: sorc, warden(no monster set)
classes that are running 2 non offensive sets with with recovery glyphs: sorc, plar
protective on jewelry: sorc, warden, plar (optional)
absorb mag enchant: sorc, warden
atro mundus stone: all
potent brew: all
has to back bar resto: dk, nb, sorc, warden

ya notice how sorc tics every box, the next 2 most frequent are warden and plar and i wouldnt say there great atm either but even they are not slammed with as much non offensive *** as sorc

Am i really supposed to respond to that?

do or dont i really dont give af

Galarthor

Witar wrote: »

Shields are stronger then they were before, just need to build it with close to softcapped resists.

Thanks for the advice. That's really mind blowing. I don't know why none of the sorcs has ever thought of that. It's gonna solve all our issues such as

- sustain
- clunkiness of streak
- lack of build diversity
- dependence on Master Staff
- stupidity of pets
- lack of bar space
- the fact that sorcs are designed to kill ppl with a burst combo, but current tank meta ensures HP > combo damage
- the fact that all of the sorc damage is dodgeable, except for curse
- the fact that all of the damage skills are so slow and well telegraphed that even a slow person can easily block/dodge them
- lack of buffs and debuffs to contribute to the group
- CFrag proc not firing a shard for whatever reason
- Execute not proccing despite people being below 20%
- Execute occasionally hitting dead bodies on the floor rather than the target next to them
- Rune Cage being useless, thanks to being telegraphed well in advance and dodgeable

... oh wait.

Galarthor

And please stop pitting magicka classes against each other. They are all quite lackluster when you compare them to the stamina overlords. It's just a pitiful attempt to discredit calls for improvement for magicka classes.

Lord-Otto

Tristat glyphs are meh, IMO. Sacrifice half of your main resource enchant for some health, basically. If you have enough health already, just a pure secondary resource glyph keeps your main stat up.
Tristat FOOD on the other hand has way more value than bistat or even the golden stat/sustain food. That one is actually overloaded.

ezio45

Galarthor wrote: »

And please stop pitting magicka classes against each other. They are all quite lackluster when you compare them to the stamina overlords. It's just a pitiful attempt to discredit calls for improvement for magicka classes.

ya, were all ***. i have said that many times. but non pet magsorc is the worst of mag

ezio45

Galarthor wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Shields are stronger then they were before, just need to build it with close to softcapped resists.

Thanks for the advice. That's really mind blowing. I don't know why none of the sorcs has ever thought of that. It's gonna solve all our issues such as

- sustain
- clunkiness of streak
- lack of build diversity
- dependence on Master Staff
- stupidity of pets
- lack of bar space
- the fact that sorcs are designed to kill ppl with a burst combo, but current tank meta ensures HP > combo damage
- the fact that all of the sorc damage is dodgeable, except for curse
- the fact that all of the damage skills are so slow and well telegraphed that even a slow person can easily block/dodge them
- lack of buffs and debuffs to contribute to the group
- CFrag proc not firing a shard for whatever reason
- Execute not proccing despite people being below 20%
- Execute occasionally hitting dead bodies on the floor rather than the target next to them
- Rune Cage being useless, thanks to being telegraphed well in advance and dodgeable

... oh wait.

finally someone who *** gets it

bardx86

ezio45 wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Shields are stronger then they were before, just need to build it with close to softcapped resists.

Thanks for the advice. That's really mind blowing. I don't know why none of the sorcs has ever thought of that. It's gonna solve all our issues such as

- sustain
- clunkiness of streak
- lack of build diversity
- dependence on Master Staff
- stupidity of pets
- lack of bar space
- the fact that sorcs are designed to kill ppl with a burst combo, but current tank meta ensures HP > combo damage
- the fact that all of the sorc damage is dodgeable, except for curse
- the fact that all of the damage skills are so slow and well telegraphed that even a slow person can easily block/dodge them
- lack of buffs and debuffs to contribute to the group
- CFrag proc not firing a shard for whatever reason
- Execute not proccing despite people being below 20%
- Execute occasionally hitting dead bodies on the floor rather than the target next to them
- Rune Cage being useless, thanks to being telegraphed well in advance and dodgeable

... oh wait.

finally someone who *** gets it

No *** this guy gets it!

bardx86

Checkmath wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

this is complete and total bs

things i have heard in this thread on how to have a decent mag sorc

pets
s&b (not a mag weapon)
breton (a ***'in healer class)
run atro when no other class has to run a recovery stone to have decent sustain
sacrifice jewelry trait when no other class has too
sacrifice dmg glyphs for sustain when no other class has too
use regen food, am i suppose to fun that or tri stat
run a sustain set or am i suppose to run a defense set not cuz i cant have both with shackle
run a sustain set when no other class has to

ya know what i want to *** run

shackle, lich skoria, potent brew, dmg glyph and arcane jewelry on an altmer with a *** restore mag weap glyph on one bar with a shock gplyph on other in all divs

and not be *** in the ass by it because *** rob garret and wrobel were idiots with 0 *** clue on how mag sorc is suppose to run or play and forced to run a *** ton of restriction THAT NO OTHER *** CLASS HAS

Forced to invest in all 3 res pools
forced to build for sustain
now were forced to run a defensive set in DIRECT *** OPPOSITION TO THE ABOVE MENTIONED SUSTAIN SET
to compensate for that we gotta run sustain glyphs which no other god damn *** class has to do
loose all divs because we need impen now just like every other class but they arnt forced to also loose there dmg sets
forced to run tri stat glyphs when hell, stam gets to use maybe 2 health glyph on chest and legs and can go all all stam on everything else. And i dont wanna *** hear that stam has to invest in mag. They can CHOOSE to to get some utility, there not doing to get there ass kicked as a direct result of not having it.
forced to run twilight which is a double bar'd breath of life lite that can die that requires a giant ass bird *** to be in your damn way

meanwhile you got some dumb ass stamden with 7th legion and ravanger in all *** divs with infused dmg glyphs jewelry running damn bi stat food in all stam armor glyphs *** dawnbreaker and spinning to win thru all the *** *** i just added to supposedly make my shields not pathetic asf and i have 0 things for my spell damage but an altmer passive dealing *** poor damage that vigor can heal thru

this is the most brain dead *** ive ever seen

Literally every magicka class would like to have a word with you

Just wanted to say the same, that actually every mag class runs tristat glyphs, heck even stamclasses do, when they profit from some magicka utility skills, because tristat glyphs grant the biggest stat density.

Also magicka damage dealers in light armor are mostly forced to run protective jewelry, because the damage taken in pure light armor is just too high. Or they run a monsterset like pirate skeleton. But yeah i guess magsorc is the only class, which needs to have sustain, tristat glyphs, recovery glyphs or sustain sets in pvp.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This thread is very disturbing, and it scares me that ZOS may be making decisions based on the opinions of players that spend a lot of time in Battlegrounds or No-CP Cyrodiil or dueling. I really don't think it's a good idea to balance Sorc for these activities, because CP Cyrodiil is where the vast majority of the PvP action is.

I admit that my own perspective may also be biased, because I spend so much time in the Imperial City, but I do find that my occasional experiences in "open world" Cyrodiil are very similar. I also find it hard to believe that European Nightblades and DKs are so weak that EU Sorcs aren't bothered by the ridiculous advantages they enjoy.

Why do you think, that ZOS would balance around no-cp pvp and bgs? It does not make sense to balance PvP around no-cp environment, when the open world community mostly plays on Vivec (just a small reminder, that balancing for the mass is not necessarily the way to go) and the whole PvE content has cps enabled.

bardx86 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Any magsorcs in this thread arguing magsorcs are subpar or not close to other classes are living in a fantasy world. Magsorcs are arguable over performing in certain areas, and since pigeonholed Into matriarch builds and given recent pet buffs, perform very well open world and in duels. Hell you dont even need matriarch in duels. We've had sorcs place first in Legends tournaments without using matriarch.

Also I play 4 mag sorcs, so def no bias here.

But you're better off with the Matriarch. So how do you balance that? Nerf it so sorcs become meh again? Or leave it, but have the sorc struggle when the pet won't cooperate in Cyrodiil? Buff no-pet and risk pet build becoming OP?
See what I'm getting at? The class has flaws in its design that could really use a rework. And with our reps praising sorc here and there, I can already smell a nerf à là Rune Cage 2.0 incoming...
=/

Pet build becoming OP? They are already.
Non-pet builds also are strong, as Malamar wrote.
Not sure if you just blend stuff out, which does not match your opinion. Malamar clearly wrote that both specs of magsorcs, pet and non-pet are very strong. With pets it just starts to get obnoxious. The class needs some quality of life improvements, not changes to their tools.

Eh. Seen some overpowered stuff in this game. A single twilight really isn't on the same level. But okay, I think it's semantics only. So for argument's sake, let's say that twilight build is top tier. Plus, even. What will your discussion with ZOS be in the future? Will you suggest a nerf, as they're so strong? And what quality of life do you have in mind?

With quality of life stuff i meant some help for streak, not getting stuck at the end of the animation, no bugging anymore with being stuck in casting a ward, maybe some frag travel time increase... streak cost increase is fine and streak needs to be casted wisely, its not meant to be used more than 2 times in a row and the sustain can be covered by recasting wards and casting a dark deal between streaks to not get the cost penalty.

Matriarch does up to 2k damage with a single light attack in a duel. Its dps is actually better than the scamp. Thats 2k afk damage you do not have to work for. There is not a single dot in the game, which comes close to that. The damage is pretty much nuts and is a reason why 2 slots are justified for the matriarch.

Currently some topic, which came up in the discussion with many magsorc players, is the skill daedric prey (the pet curse), which enhances pets damage on the target tremendiously (also from proc pets like shadowrend or maw of infernal). Sorc players suggested changing that one into a dot ability instead delayed burst to help out in pve dps. But the buff to oets damage would need to be reevaluated.

The bold piece is completely wrong. It's a kiting tool that we can't use to kite. We should be able to streak a couple of times, cast some damage skills and streak some more. As it is we can't. Reduce the stacking cost timer to 1-2 seconds. I suppose cloak or wings are not meant to be used more that 2 times in a row as well? It amazes me that a developer or a class rep can believe that a class having the only stacking cost in the game is ok. It's simple a terrible idea.

Well I guess, that streak penalty is too high, when even I, who does not play magsorc too often, can streak for eternity by avoiding the penalty after every second streak cast. I mean, the penalty is already gone, if you just cast a few abilities between streaks and maybe do a dodgeroll. I think when you try streaking multiple times (3 and more) without avoiding the penalty, you are doing something wrong and also leaves you vulnerable. Recast your shields, cast a dark deal to recover some magicka you just lost by streaking and the penalty is already gone. With two times streaking you should have reached the next obstacle, behind which you can safely cast dark deal.

I didnt say, that it is ok, that streak is the only skill with a penalty cost. But i say, that the penalty is justified, but I agree that there are skills, which could be treated the same.

Well at least we are getting somewhere. However, let me explain why the streak penalty is no long justified. When the streak cost was added Sorcs could streak off apply 2 shields for around 40k that lasted 20 seconds turn back and reengage. It was OP at the time but this is no longer the case. Shield have been nerf by half with battle spirt and half again with the health requirement. The duration was also nerfed by 2/3's. Sorcs just don't have the defensive power they once had and need tools to help avoid damage, streak should be one of the tools. No class should be penalized for using tools in their kit to stay alive. Look, I hate fighting someone who uses cloak effectively but I don't want to see a stacking cost on it. Cloak and streak are similar in the sense that they are used to avoid damage. Why are Sorcs penalized for this?

Also you know streak is also used as a gap closer? We have folks running around like speedy Gonzales using less resources to maintain that speed than Sorcs use to catch them. It's not balanced.

Streak needs a rework. Its too slow cost too much and unreliable. No amount to trying to tell someone who has played the Sorc class in PVP since EQ "how to play a Sorc" is going to change my mind. Why is a short range teleports in every other MMO fine but in this game it's considered OP?

Jsmalls

Xvorg wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment

High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.

Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !

All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !

The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !

You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.

If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.

@Xvorg

This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell

Thanks for the laugh.

bardx86

Jsmalls wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

From a pure solo player's perspective I would consider anything top tier only if it performs consistently inside a competitive environment

High MMR BG's is the closest we have got to a competitive environment and when you put in the top tier BG players in the same BG , that's when you notice the real clunkiness of the class.

Your frags will be dodged / reflected due to its million years travel time. Your trash execute will be dodged
You will have DK's with 100% uptime on wings
You will have multiple sload dots on you
You will be playing in ice fields
You will be perma snared
You will be chain pulled when you try to escape
You will have multiple bleeds ticking on you
You can even expect a bunch of nightblades wearing shieldbreaker !

All those hardcounters haven't been addressed but that's how the real meta looks like. The only thing that does help is the invaluable martiach heal but it only migitates the problem. Its not in a controlled duel environment or a potato farming expedition with a small scale group or a 1vX where I admit that sorc excels right now !

The sorcs in this forum and class reps here already know this but still sorc is top tier right ? I pretty sure a mega sorc nerf is coming but the class reps really need to think about it !

You complain about DKs wings despite magSorc has some of the best skills to counter wings? I mean, Curse and Fury are really annoying. And you use force pulse as main spammable. Even Cage goes through wings.

If you have problems with wings, then I suggest you never go ranged Mageblade.

@Xvorg

This guy thinks a 6k curse every 4 gcds and a 3-4k pulse is going to kill a DK with at least one working brain cell

Thanks for the laugh.

I mean seriously where are these DK's that I can kill with just curse? Maybe I should switch to the EU server?