I miss magsorc

NinchiTV

I miss being able to solo with it, i miss not having to put a pet on it, i miss the beefy shields.I miss the CC on my frags. I miss having fun on my magsorc.

Digiman

They have always lack design direction.... think thats why ZoS and Wrobel screwed the changes to them so much.

RebornV3x

I miss them mainly for PvP I think sorcs are ok now for pve unless you hate pet builds but sorc between 1.6 and 2.2 was some of the most fun I ever had on ESO its a shame how they butchered the class so badly.

Iskiab

Butchered? Totally a L2P issue. They’re stronger in pvp now then before the last patch, their burst has improved.

They’re a solid pvp clas.

TheYKcid

Nonpet Sorc is more mobile than ever before, while damage is also very competitive in light of the racial & vulnerability changes. Petsorc is straight-up OP AF now.

Sincerely, a Sorc main.

Minalan

Sorcs are fine in PVP, you just need to learn how to build and play in the new meta.

The class just isn't "carry me" broken anymore, you need to build like EVERY other class. You need to invest in crit resist, surprise, just like everyone. You need to invest in armor, hell you can use a monster set, boundless storm, or protective jewelry and be fine in light armor. There are defensive sets like armor master and impreg if you're really having problems, or slot the psijic ult with minor protection. You need to add a little health with some tri-stat glyphs. When you do, shields are actually stronger than they were before, and you're not one hit squish under that shield stack.

Damage is still really good, just build for it. ZOS just added sets like spell strat that give you about 1000 spell damage single target. Spinner is still a solid damage set. Stacking penetration works on everyone and scales great with our damage.

Pets are a significant percentage of our class toolkit, you leave a lot on the table by not using one. Three skills, and at least as many passives. Devs made them worth using now this patch, probably getting ready for Necromancer. I hate pets too, but you leave a lot on the table by not using one.

We are in a really good place, and I haven't felt this way about the sorc class in a long time. I'll be really surprised TBH if we don't see a nerf next patch. Why? Because ZOS can't leave a good thing alone.

Iskiab

Minalan wrote: »

Sorcs are fine in PVP, you just need to learn how to build and play in the new meta.

The class just isn't "carry me" broken anymore, you need to build like EVERY other class. You need to invest in crit resist, surprise, just like everyone. You need to invest in armor, hell you can use a monster set, boundless storm, or protective jewelry and be fine in light armor. There are defensive sets like armor master and invuln if you're really having problems, or slot the psijic ult with minor protection. You need to add a little health with some tri-stat glyphs. When you do, shields are actually stronger than they were before, and you're not one hit squish under that shield stack.

Damage is still really good, just build for it. ZOS just added sets like spell strat that give you about 1000 spell damage single target. Spinner is still a solid damage set. Stacking penetration works on everyone and scales great with our damage.

Pets are a significant percentage of our class toolkit, you leave a lot on the table by not using one. Three skills, and at least as many passives. Devs made them worth using now this patch, probably getting ready for Necromancer. I hate pets too, but you leave a lot on the table by not using one.

We are in a really good place, and I haven't felt this way about the sorc class in a long time. I'll be really surprised TBH if we don't see a nerf next patch. Why? Because ZOS can't leave a good thing alone.

I wouldn’t say overpowered, just in a really good spot.

Minalan

Iskiab wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Sorcs are fine in PVP, you just need to learn how to build and play in the new meta.

The class just isn't "carry me" broken anymore, you need to build like EVERY other class. You need to invest in crit resist, surprise, just like everyone. You need to invest in armor, hell you can use a monster set, boundless storm, or protective jewelry and be fine in light armor. There are defensive sets like armor master and invuln if you're really having problems, or slot the psijic ult with minor protection. You need to add a little health with some tri-stat glyphs. When you do, shields are actually stronger than they were before, and you're not one hit squish under that shield stack.

Damage is still really good, just build for it. ZOS just added sets like spell strat that give you about 1000 spell damage single target. Spinner is still a solid damage set. Stacking penetration works on everyone and scales great with our damage.

Pets are a significant percentage of our class toolkit, you leave a lot on the table by not using one. Three skills, and at least as many passives. Devs made them worth using now this patch, probably getting ready for Necromancer. I hate pets too, but you leave a lot on the table by not using one.

We are in a really good place, and I haven't felt this way about the sorc class in a long time. I'll be really surprised TBH if we don't see a nerf next patch. Why? Because ZOS can't leave a good thing alone.

I wouldn’t say overpowered, just in a really good spot.

You don't need to be overpowered to get a nerf in this game... You just need to send enough potatoes to respawn on these forums. They cry salty, bitter tears that always find themselves in the game design. Then skills like shade stop working for nightblades, and healing ward becomes borderline useless.

Digiman

Are you talking CP or non-CP Minalan?

Minalan

Digiman wrote: »

Are you talking CP or non-CP Minalan?

I play CP, and it's great. But we are still really good no CP with the right build.

There are a million really strong nocp builds this patch, try this for example, this is what I would do if I played nocp: https://youtu.be/6ja-ms64r-0

If everyone is making it work except for you, the problem isn't the class.

oxygen_thief

Minalan wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Are you talking CP or non-CP Minalan?

If everyone is making it work except for you, the problem isn't the class.

what is working here? where are dks wings, wardens shields, nbs incaps, bleeds and other nasty staff? where are groups with dedicated healers and stan on kd. you can shoot like this with every build but serious guys will eat you alive

RebornV3x

Iskiab wrote: »

Butchered? Totally a L2P issue. They’re stronger in pvp now then before the last patch, their burst has improved.

They’re a solid pvp clas.

I do ok in CP PvP in Cyrodill and I wreak people in Battlegrounds but sorc in PvP is just no fun and a pain in the but the way you have to play just to be just ok

I can go on anything stamina in PvP and do a lot better with a lot less hassle.

and yes butchered sorc has slowly lost everything that makes it special patch after patch we get nerfed.

as I said 1.6 to 2.2 was amazing and I miss those days had some epic fights I would pay good money for a 1.8 - 1.9 legacy server.

Minalan

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Are you talking CP or non-CP Minalan?

If everyone is making it work except for you, the problem isn't the class.

what is working here? where are dks wings, wardens shields, nbs incaps, bleeds and other nasty staff? where are groups with dedicated healers and stan on kd. you can shoot like this with every build but serious guys will eat you alive

We can still do really well against all of the above with a good build and a whole lot of L2P.

Sorcs have a pair of strong, heavily armored shields and a burst heal. We don't go down easy on the defense either. Imagine how they feel against US?

Jsmalls

I've only played about 5-6 hours of PvP on my MagSorc this patch but it feels very good now.

The amplitude change was welcome, and the nerf to argonians was helpful as well (less tanky players). As well as the ancient knowledge passive change.

The class (like MagNb) is still hard countered by wings and shimmering shield unfortunately. But otherwise they feel healthy.

MirkoZ

Well, Magsorc these days is meh , of course it is still great but the fact is there are other classes that are better, but hey, it's the meta.
There is only one thing that I miss : the third bar of overload to make the sorc more versatile.

Lord-Otto

Eh, I'm not buying the sorc-OP-mantra. At very quick glance, we seem to be slightly better off this patch than Nerfmire. But the core problems, they are still there.

- sustained damage is still rather low, which leads to problems against targets you can't kill with one burst.
- skills are very telegraphed and easy to counter. Especially our execute is just hilariously useless now.
- following the telegraph, many skills are easily mitigated by wings, slabs, cloak, dodge and purge
- our toolkit doesn't work symbiotically: still no burst ult, Meteor doesn't combo with Rune Cage, we are ranged but get punished for opening gaps, we're supposed to use pets but they are stupid and demand two slots.
- burst, while potentially the highest in the game, is backloaded, which is far inferior to a frontloaded burst like shalks-dawnbreaker-spin2win
- sustain is low and our sustain tool demanding and dangerous, not to mention it breaks combat mechanics with that annoying delay after the cast
- bound to a Master staff, both hard to get and wasting two set boni
- Harness, although not sorc-specific, is OP against magicka users - but pathetic against stamina

And all that while certain heavy armor sets are blatantly OP, Stamblade damage output is sickening, DW reigns supreme and Dawnbreaker is just overloaded. Yeah, you can do work on a sorc with a lot of investment and opponent evaluation. But a skilled opponent can easily exploit our weaknesses. And a skilled sorc would probably multiply his performance on the meta classes.
Sorc needs a rather thorough overhaul. Not bandaids. By nerfing just about everything, ZOS brought this piece of work upon themselves. They have already hinted at such a rework and I hope they don't need another year for that.

Emma_Overload

I've been playing mag sorc since launch, and I agree more with Lord Otto. My sorc feels better than it has in a while, but it is still weak compared to nightblades. I just don't do as much DAMAGE as I need to while still able to sustain. It's almost there, but not quite.

I feel like the weakest link in the sorc toolkit right now is the ultimate. I really need something I can slam them with when curse goes off, and I just don't have it.

Iskiab

@Emma_Overload

Tried the soul magic ultimate? I’m seeing it more often these days in BGs. Can’t be countered with cloak or dodge rolling and has high tooltip damage. Non-mag classes don’t have shields to rely on. I usually heal and having two dumped on me at the same time is almost always a death, even if I spam harness magicka.

I don’t have a sorc but have been debating playing one. From seeing them being played the best ones are really aggressive with constant pressure. The burst forces opponents on the defensive, and once a player is on the defensive they typically stay there until help arrives or they die. A lot of pvpers get caught in a defensive loop where not using cc or attacks lets their opponents go full offense and do more damage they could ever mitigate.

Is it high tooltip values that force low sustain or feeling you need to invest all in SP instead of recovery to be effective?

One issue I see a lot are sorcs trying to be an army of one. All ST abilities and try to burst a single player down solo, where they’d be more effective following a DK around and assisting them.

Minalan

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Eh, I'm not buying the sorc-OP-mantra. At very quick glance, we seem to be slightly better off this patch than Nerfmire. But the core problems, they are still there.

- sustained damage is still rather low, which leads to problems against targets you can't kill with one burst.
- skills are very telegraphed and easy to counter. Especially our execute is just hilariously useless now.
- following the telegraph, many skills are easily mitigated by wings, slabs, cloak, dodge and purge
- our toolkit doesn't work symbiotically: still no burst ult, Meteor doesn't combo with Rune Cage, we are ranged but get punished for opening gaps, we're supposed to use pets but they are stupid and demand two slots.
- burst, while potentially the highest in the game, is backloaded, which is far inferior to a frontloaded burst like shalks-dawnbreaker-spin2win
- sustain is low and our sustain tool demanding and dangerous, not to mention it breaks combat mechanics with that annoying delay after the cast
- bound to a Master staff, both hard to get and wasting two set boni
- Harness, although not sorc-specific, is OP against magicka users - but pathetic against stamina

And all that while certain heavy armor sets are blatantly OP, Stamblade damage output is sickening, DW reigns supreme and Dawnbreaker is just overloaded. Yeah, you can do work on a sorc with a lot of investment and opponent evaluation. But a skilled opponent can easily exploit our weaknesses. And a skilled sorc would probably multiply his performance on the meta classes.
Sorc needs a rather thorough overhaul. Not bandaids. By nerfing just about everything, ZOS brought this piece of work upon themselves. They have already hinted at such a rework and I hope they don't need another year for that.

I disagree, I think we just need a few QoL improvements and we'll be fine.

Overload: fix the targeting, clunkiness, and speed of this ultimate projectiles already. Fix the heavy attack bug that breaks regular heavies when you run out of ult. Let us generate ult while using it, and adjust the cost or something so it's a few good well placed light-woven shots. It's Soo baaad.

Streak: fix the pause/momentum loss at the end of a streak for heaven's sake. Why is this still a thing?

Hardened Ward: fix the bug where we get stuck and can't cast it until we roll dodge. This is ridiculous, we've all had it happen.

Bastion: this CP doesn't counter shattering blows because of the health cap. It probably should.

Wrath: does this really need to be double dodgeable? Really?

Meteor: it's still giving the magicka bonus on the wrong bar....

There, mostly bug fixes and really annoying things that would make sorc more fun to play without bringing back old problems.

Lord-Otto

Minalan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Eh, I'm not buying the sorc-OP-mantra. At very quick glance, we seem to be slightly better off this patch than Nerfmire. But the core problems, they are still there.

- sustained damage is still rather low, which leads to problems against targets you can't kill with one burst.
- skills are very telegraphed and easy to counter. Especially our execute is just hilariously useless now.
- following the telegraph, many skills are easily mitigated by wings, slabs, cloak, dodge and purge
- our toolkit doesn't work symbiotically: still no burst ult, Meteor doesn't combo with Rune Cage, we are ranged but get punished for opening gaps, we're supposed to use pets but they are stupid and demand two slots.
- burst, while potentially the highest in the game, is backloaded, which is far inferior to a frontloaded burst like shalks-dawnbreaker-spin2win
- sustain is low and our sustain tool demanding and dangerous, not to mention it breaks combat mechanics with that annoying delay after the cast
- bound to a Master staff, both hard to get and wasting two set boni
- Harness, although not sorc-specific, is OP against magicka users - but pathetic against stamina

And all that while certain heavy armor sets are blatantly OP, Stamblade damage output is sickening, DW reigns supreme and Dawnbreaker is just overloaded. Yeah, you can do work on a sorc with a lot of investment and opponent evaluation. But a skilled opponent can easily exploit our weaknesses. And a skilled sorc would probably multiply his performance on the meta classes.
Sorc needs a rather thorough overhaul. Not bandaids. By nerfing just about everything, ZOS brought this piece of work upon themselves. They have already hinted at such a rework and I hope they don't need another year for that.

I disagree, I think we just need a few QoL improvements and we'll be fine.

Overload: fix the targeting, clunkiness, and speed of this ultimate projectiles already. Fix the heavy attack bug that breaks regular heavies when you run out of ult. Let us generate ult while using it, and adjust the cost or something so it's a few good well placed light-woven shots. It's Soo baaad.

Streak: fix the pause/momentum loss at the end of a streak for heaven's sake. Why is this still a thing?

Hardened Ward: fix the bug where we get stuck and can't cast it until we roll dodge. This is ridiculous, we've all had it happen.

Bastion: this CP doesn't counter shattering blows because of the health cap. It probably should.

Wrath: does this really need to be double dodgeable? Really?

Meteor: it's still giving the magicka bonus on the wrong bar....

There, mostly bug fixes and really annoying things that would make sorc more fun to play without bringing back old problems.

Think ZOS fixed the shield cast bug with Wrathstone.
And the other stuff, while I agree it needs fixing, you're still gonna get your arse handed to you by stamblades, wardens, mDKs and everyone who has a strong DoT or can break LoS every three seconds, if that's all you wanna change. Not to mention pet AI...

FearlessOne_2014

Iskiab wrote: »

Butchered? Totally a L2P issue. They’re stronger in pvp now then before the last patch, their burst has improved.

They’re a solid pvp clas.

What burst you talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcqhGRjWQu8

Edited = Okay not the best video of my old MagSorc build. But still I mean it's okay but nowhere near Stamblade or Templar level of strong.

Galarthor

@Lord-Otto pretty much said it all.

My dawnbreaker, despite being based on stamina & weapon damage and cost 38% less ultimate than meteor, deals roughly the same damage without out scream "WATCH OUT HERE I COME"

Also Streak is very lackluster:
- distance traversed in relation to cost
- loss of momentum
- doesn't work up hill
- also pretty *** down hill
- even in a flat plain a single 2-pixel bump is enough to get stuck / not activate
- too slow of an animation (especially at the start)

Funny enough, many of these issues have been solved in the past for gap-closers, but for the entire time since then ZOS stance on giving streak the same treatment was "F*** Sorcs".

Also sorcs skills are too one-dimensional leading to the lack of bar space, which the forced pet-meta only exacerbated.

Also some more things from the Major-Minor (De)Buff Department would be nice ... you know contributing to the group performance and all.

psychotic13

I miss dw sorc

Alfie2072

never understood people like op, clearly doesnt play magsorc much, they are stronger than they were
pretty much just complaining because you cant run full damage sets and enchantments

visionality

@Bumi Rockafella Totally agree with you. Magsorc is ok to play in PVP if you are emotionally attached to the class because you played it for a long time, but I would never choose it for a new char. So much better and more interesting stuff out there.

@Minalan Yes, you leave a lot on the table when you dont swap to petsorc, but not everybody wants to move to the cheese meta and exploit the targeting weaknesses of ESO. Also, not everybody finds playing a petbuild fun or even interesting.

@Iskiab Just go to Cyro, pick up the 'Kill 20 sorcerers' quest and try to remember how long it took you 2-3 patches ago to finish it and how much harder it is nowadays to find a sorc. Tells you everything about how 'desirable' this class has become. Frankly, even killing 20 wardens finishes faster nowadays and not because they are easier to kill.

WuffyCerulei

I still have a lot of fun on my sorc, idk what you’re talkin about.

Checkmath

psychotic13 wrote: »

I miss dw sorc

I miss the days, were sorc qq actually was valid....oh wait.

Magsorc is considered the strongest magicka pvp class right now for duels and open world.
Battlegrounds get dominated by zoos, open world magsorcs have the best toolkit amongst magclasses to kite and lure out enemies till you can burst down one by one. In duels the spam of clench and weaving in the frags and curses deals extremely high damage with the amplitude passive. I am really not sure, why some people did not realize how strong magicka sorcerers are right now.

oxygen_thief

Some people arent *** and don't want to lead zoo

Lord-Otto

Checkmath wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

I miss dw sorc

I miss the days, were sorc qq actually was valid....oh wait.

Magsorc is considered the strongest magicka pvp class right now for duels and open world.
Battlegrounds get dominated by zoos, open world magsorcs have the best toolkit amongst magclasses to kite and lure out enemies till you can burst down one by one. In duels the spam of clench and weaving in the frags and curses deals extremely high damage with the amplitude passive. I am really not sure, why some people did not realize how strong magicka sorcerers are right now.

Well, you're not luring with pets, they're too stupid. And without them, you're not as powerful in those 1v1 encounters, as you admitted they are the strength. Proves my point, no synergy. Bad design.

Checkmath

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

I miss dw sorc

I miss the days, were sorc qq actually was valid....oh wait.

Magsorc is considered the strongest magicka pvp class right now for duels and open world.
Battlegrounds get dominated by zoos, open world magsorcs have the best toolkit amongst magclasses to kite and lure out enemies till you can burst down one by one. In duels the spam of clench and weaving in the frags and curses deals extremely high damage with the amplitude passive. I am really not sure, why some people did not realize how strong magicka sorcerers are right now.

Well, you're not luring with pets, they're too stupid. And without them, you're not as powerful in those 1v1 encounters, as you admitted they are the strength. Proves my point, no synergy. Bad design.

Where did I say anything about pets? I mentioned zoos in bgs and that was all. With luring I meant streaking away, losing, recovering with dark deal and if the followers get fewer and fewer try bursting them down. I did not say at all, that the pets are the strength of the class (sure they are just ridiculously strong in duels and bgs, only work half as good in open world tough, still having the matriarch with you makes you extremely powerful by having strong damage over time from its light attacks and a rather cheap burst heal). But also without pets, sorcs are the king of magicka classes in open world and can easely hold their ground in competitive dueling environments. The last tournament on EU just showed how a rather inexperienced dueler could stand against the winner of the tournament for a very long time (sure that guy didnt really do much damage due to being pressured by the better player, but also his opponent, a stamnb, had quite the problems getting him down).

The class is very strong without pets, those daedric summonings just make the class OP in certain pvp scenarios. I would not call the pets the strength of the class, since magsorc is coompetitive without them.

Urvoth

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Eh, I'm not buying the sorc-OP-mantra. At very quick glance, we seem to be slightly better off this patch than Nerfmire. But the core problems, they are still there.

- sustained damage is still rather low, which leads to problems against targets you can't kill with one burst.
- skills are very telegraphed and easy to counter. Especially our execute is just hilariously useless now.
- following the telegraph, many skills are easily mitigated by wings, slabs, cloak, dodge and purge
- our toolkit doesn't work symbiotically: still no burst ult, Meteor doesn't combo with Rune Cage, we are ranged but get punished for opening gaps, we're supposed to use pets but they are stupid and demand two slots.
- burst, while potentially the highest in the game, is backloaded, which is far inferior to a frontloaded burst like shalks-dawnbreaker-spin2win
- sustain is low and our sustain tool demanding and dangerous, not to mention it breaks combat mechanics with that annoying delay after the cast
- bound to a Master staff, both hard to get and wasting two set boni
- Harness, although not sorc-specific, is OP against magicka users - but pathetic against stamina

And all that while certain heavy armor sets are blatantly OP, Stamblade damage output is sickening, DW reigns supreme and Dawnbreaker is just overloaded. Yeah, you can do work on a sorc with a lot of investment and opponent evaluation. But a skilled opponent can easily exploit our weaknesses. And a skilled sorc would probably multiply his performance on the meta classes.
Sorc needs a rather thorough overhaul. Not bandaids. By nerfing just about everything, ZOS brought this piece of work upon themselves. They have already hinted at such a rework and I hope they don't need another year for that.

I agree fully, you can get kills on sorc and do alright, but the class skills are more of a mashup of random components than the synergized kit that other classes have. There are also a lot of hard counters for sorc and the lack of things like a class spammable, reliable non pet heal, and burst dmg ult on top of terrible sustain really restricts your build options. Also, why is shieldbreaker still in the game?