Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

Jaraal

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

Ratzkifal

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

I mean I didn't even think of it going to "danger" before I tested it, but I can do it again with screenshots.
Just one question, what's the best method to upload images onto the forum?

Cundu_Ertur

imgur is a free photo hosting site, fairly intuitive to use.

Ratzkifal

Update:
Test1: No medium Armor on both, the one with the red orbs has 3/3 Hunter's Eye.


Without wearing any armor, the "danger" indicator is nonexistant for the person being revealed. You go from completely hidden straight to full reveal. However there is some very wonky behavior as I am constantly going "hidden" again since no combat is happening, only to be immediately detected as soon as the indicator goes to "hidden" without any of us moving. This is when sneaking face toward face. The fennec fox pet was friendly enough to not go into stealth, so you can still tell where my sneaking Bosmer friend is. Note that he is not standing on top of the flag but slightly behind it (ther is room for about another crouching Bosmer between him and the flag).
Test2: One has full medium armor with passives, the other with the red orbs has 3/3 Hunter's Eye


This time the Bosmer without the Hunter's Eye passive put on 7 pieces of medium armor, none of which interact with detection nor stealth apart from the medium armor passive. As you can clearly see, the Bosmer without Hunter's Eye is made aware of a nearby enemy through the "danger" indicator - the half opened eye. The Bosmer with Hunter's eye is still hidden and has no idea an enemy even exists in the area. This time the helpful fox behaved and went properly into hiding. The duel flag is touching the Hunter's Eye Bosmer's heel.

Both screenshots were taken on the road to Davon's Watch.

Cpt_Teemo

Yeah really, why remove the one thing the bosmer were good at was sneaking only race passive with +10 Sneak is bosmer, followed by +5 Khajiit

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races

rfennell_ESO

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

You don't even have to do that.

You can calculate exact detection ranges.

The formula is/has been relatively simple.

Forward detection 20m
Side detection 10m
Rear detection 5m

F:20m *(armor bonus)=X-racial(or+racial)-set(or+set)

Everything stacks.

Cundu_Ertur

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

You don't even have to do that.

You can calculate exact detection ranges.

The formula is/has been relatively simple.

Forward detection 20m
Side detection 10m
Rear detection 5m

F:20m *(armor bonus)=X-racial(or+racial)-set(or+set)

Everything stacks.

While having the numbers and formula is nice, and thanks for that, what we are trying to work out is if the Hunter's Eye 'bonus' is actually a detriment. This demonstration seems to show that it is. The Bosmer with Hunter's Eye who is in stealth cannot detect a stealthed enemy at all, but the enemy can tell that there is someone there because they're getting warned that they are being detected.

Ratzkifal

I would have tested the reveal through cloak too, but that's quite the challenge if you only have one computer and two accounts to play on simultaneously. Last time I had a friend to test it with me.

rfennell_ESO

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

You don't even have to do that.

You can calculate exact detection ranges.

The formula is/has been relatively simple.

Forward detection 20m
Side detection 10m
Rear detection 5m

F:20m *(armor bonus)=X-racial(or+racial)-set(or+set)

Everything stacks.

While having the numbers and formula is nice, and thanks for that, what we are trying to work out is if the Hunter's Eye 'bonus' is actually a detriment. This demonstration seems to show that it is. The Bosmer with Hunter's Eye who is in stealth cannot detect a stealthed enemy at all, but the enemy can tell that there is someone there because they're getting warned that they are being detected.

It shouldn't be. The detection should just +3m, anytime increased detection is used against similar stealth levels you would get the warning. It's similar with detect pots and everything else of the nature that increases detection range.

Point being... that while it will alert stealthed players earlier than they can see or start to detect you, they still can't actually see you... but yes it will act as an alert of sorts.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I would have tested the reveal through cloak too, but that's quite the challenge if you only have one computer and two accounts to play on simultaneously. Last time I had a friend to test it with me.

With cloak (well, shadowy disguise) the benefit of hunter's eye will be that you can reveal them. Without it, you can't... ever.

Shadowy disguise acts as modified stealth with detection ranges set to 0. So it will be revealed at 3m to a bosmer, which is actually a pretty powerful racial in some ways.

You will not be able to reveal a khajiit with it though. or anyone stacking +stealth sets above 3.

Ratzkifal

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

You don't even have to do that.

You can calculate exact detection ranges.

The formula is/has been relatively simple.

Forward detection 20m
Side detection 10m
Rear detection 5m

F:20m *(armor bonus)=X-racial(or+racial)-set(or+set)

Everything stacks.

While having the numbers and formula is nice, and thanks for that, what we are trying to work out is if the Hunter's Eye 'bonus' is actually a detriment. This demonstration seems to show that it is. The Bosmer with Hunter's Eye who is in stealth cannot detect a stealthed enemy at all, but the enemy can tell that there is someone there because they're getting warned that they are being detected.

It shouldn't be. The detection should just +3m, anytime increased detection is used against similar stealth levels you would get the warning. It's similar with detect pots and everything else of the nature that increases detection range.

Point being... that while it will alert stealthed players earlier than they can see or start to detect you, they still can't actually see you... but yes it will act as an alert of sorts.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I would have tested the reveal through cloak too, but that's quite the challenge if you only have one computer and two accounts to play on simultaneously. Last time I had a friend to test it with me.

With cloak (well, shadowy disguise) the benefit of hunter's eye will be that you can reveal them. Without it, you can't... ever.

Shadowy disguise acts as modified stealth with detection ranges set to 0. So it will be revealed at 3m to a bosmer, which is actually a pretty powerful racial in some ways.

You will not be able to reveal a khajiit with it though. or anyone stacking +stealth sets above 3.

@rfennell_ESO No, that's not how it worked when I tested it the last time. You can see them, yes, but you don't actually reveal the enemy so that you can attack them. All your targetted attacks will miss and again, 3meters are nothing, so your attacker well still be in melee range before you'll be able to see them. So I wouldn't call it "pretty powerful" at all.

rfennell_ESO

Ratzkifal wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

You don't even have to do that.

You can calculate exact detection ranges.

The formula is/has been relatively simple.

Forward detection 20m
Side detection 10m
Rear detection 5m

F:20m *(armor bonus)=X-racial(or+racial)-set(or+set)

Everything stacks.

While having the numbers and formula is nice, and thanks for that, what we are trying to work out is if the Hunter's Eye 'bonus' is actually a detriment. This demonstration seems to show that it is. The Bosmer with Hunter's Eye who is in stealth cannot detect a stealthed enemy at all, but the enemy can tell that there is someone there because they're getting warned that they are being detected.

It shouldn't be. The detection should just +3m, anytime increased detection is used against similar stealth levels you would get the warning. It's similar with detect pots and everything else of the nature that increases detection range.

Point being... that while it will alert stealthed players earlier than they can see or start to detect you, they still can't actually see you... but yes it will act as an alert of sorts.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I would have tested the reveal through cloak too, but that's quite the challenge if you only have one computer and two accounts to play on simultaneously. Last time I had a friend to test it with me.

With cloak (well, shadowy disguise) the benefit of hunter's eye will be that you can reveal them. Without it, you can't... ever.

Shadowy disguise acts as modified stealth with detection ranges set to 0. So it will be revealed at 3m to a bosmer, which is actually a pretty powerful racial in some ways.

You will not be able to reveal a khajiit with it though. or anyone stacking +stealth sets above 3.

@rfennell_ESO No, that's not how it worked when I tested it the last time. You can see them, yes, but you don't actually reveal the enemy so that you can attack them. All your targetted attacks will miss and again, 3meters are nothing, so your attacker well still be in melee range before you'll be able to see them. So I wouldn't call it "pretty powerful" at all.

Maybe "pretty powerful" was the wrong choice of words.

Without +stealth detect you can not ever see them. With it you can. It's very situational. Then there is the fact that anyone that actually wants to use +stealth to their advantage will be a khajiit with a couple stealth reduction sets and you won't be able to see them.

Technically it won't act as a reveal, you are correct. But you can see them, you will miss if you attack them on the first attack due to shadowy disguise next hit = miss. But a quick light attack weave into an ability should hit them.

Ratzkifal

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

You don't even have to do that.

You can calculate exact detection ranges.

The formula is/has been relatively simple.

Forward detection 20m
Side detection 10m
Rear detection 5m

F:20m *(armor bonus)=X-racial(or+racial)-set(or+set)

Everything stacks.

While having the numbers and formula is nice, and thanks for that, what we are trying to work out is if the Hunter's Eye 'bonus' is actually a detriment. This demonstration seems to show that it is. The Bosmer with Hunter's Eye who is in stealth cannot detect a stealthed enemy at all, but the enemy can tell that there is someone there because they're getting warned that they are being detected.

It shouldn't be. The detection should just +3m, anytime increased detection is used against similar stealth levels you would get the warning. It's similar with detect pots and everything else of the nature that increases detection range.

Point being... that while it will alert stealthed players earlier than they can see or start to detect you, they still can't actually see you... but yes it will act as an alert of sorts.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I would have tested the reveal through cloak too, but that's quite the challenge if you only have one computer and two accounts to play on simultaneously. Last time I had a friend to test it with me.

With cloak (well, shadowy disguise) the benefit of hunter's eye will be that you can reveal them. Without it, you can't... ever.

Shadowy disguise acts as modified stealth with detection ranges set to 0. So it will be revealed at 3m to a bosmer, which is actually a pretty powerful racial in some ways.

You will not be able to reveal a khajiit with it though. or anyone stacking +stealth sets above 3.

@rfennell_ESO No, that's not how it worked when I tested it the last time. You can see them, yes, but you don't actually reveal the enemy so that you can attack them. All your targetted attacks will miss and again, 3meters are nothing, so your attacker well still be in melee range before you'll be able to see them. So I wouldn't call it "pretty powerful" at all.

Maybe "pretty powerful" was the wrong choice of words.

Without +stealth detect you can not ever see them. With it you can. It's very situational. Then there is the fact that anyone that actually wants to use +stealth to their advantage will be a khajiit with a couple stealth reduction sets and you won't be able to see them.

Technically it won't act as a reveal, you are correct. But you can see them, you will miss if you attack them on the first attack due to shadowy disguise next hit = miss. But a quick light attack weave into an ability should hit them.

Light attacks missed too if I remember correctly. I'm assuming only abilities like AoEs and attacks that can't be dodged like fossilize would still hit.

KhajiitFelix

Woof Elf/Bosmer whining about a stealth passive, an open letter

git gud

rfennell_ESO

Ratzkifal wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

JadeCoin wrote: »

All of this makes me wonder whether they aren't planning to roll out (no pun intended) more sets like Way of the Air, making stealth detection stacking a thing.

Which still begs the question of why anyone would use it when there are already more effective measures in the game that defend against both ordinary stealth and cloaking.

Nothing like stacking a few stealth detection sets so you can see the enemy coming right before they easily murder you because they're wearing sets with useful bonuses instead of stealth detection.

Would be interesting to see someone with two accounts take screenshots from two different perspectives in a PvP zone. Have a Bosmer with Hunter's Eye and a character of another race crouch facing each other, and slowly inch each toon forward until (a) one character's "eye" half opens, or (b) one character becomes visible to the other, and report back with pictorial evidence of what's what. And then maybe throw a Way of Air set on the Bosmer and see if the effects stack, and/or give the Bosmer away earlier. Or put the Way of Air set on the other character and see if they see or detect each other at the same time. It would prove or disprove a lot of things.

You don't even have to do that.

You can calculate exact detection ranges.

The formula is/has been relatively simple.

Forward detection 20m
Side detection 10m
Rear detection 5m

F:20m *(armor bonus)=X-racial(or+racial)-set(or+set)

Everything stacks.

While having the numbers and formula is nice, and thanks for that, what we are trying to work out is if the Hunter's Eye 'bonus' is actually a detriment. This demonstration seems to show that it is. The Bosmer with Hunter's Eye who is in stealth cannot detect a stealthed enemy at all, but the enemy can tell that there is someone there because they're getting warned that they are being detected.

It shouldn't be. The detection should just +3m, anytime increased detection is used against similar stealth levels you would get the warning. It's similar with detect pots and everything else of the nature that increases detection range.

Point being... that while it will alert stealthed players earlier than they can see or start to detect you, they still can't actually see you... but yes it will act as an alert of sorts.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I would have tested the reveal through cloak too, but that's quite the challenge if you only have one computer and two accounts to play on simultaneously. Last time I had a friend to test it with me.

With cloak (well, shadowy disguise) the benefit of hunter's eye will be that you can reveal them. Without it, you can't... ever.

Shadowy disguise acts as modified stealth with detection ranges set to 0. So it will be revealed at 3m to a bosmer, which is actually a pretty powerful racial in some ways.

You will not be able to reveal a khajiit with it though. or anyone stacking +stealth sets above 3.

@rfennell_ESO No, that's not how it worked when I tested it the last time. You can see them, yes, but you don't actually reveal the enemy so that you can attack them. All your targetted attacks will miss and again, 3meters are nothing, so your attacker well still be in melee range before you'll be able to see them. So I wouldn't call it "pretty powerful" at all.

Maybe "pretty powerful" was the wrong choice of words.

Without +stealth detect you can not ever see them. With it you can. It's very situational. Then there is the fact that anyone that actually wants to use +stealth to their advantage will be a khajiit with a couple stealth reduction sets and you won't be able to see them.

Technically it won't act as a reveal, you are correct. But you can see them, you will miss if you attack them on the first attack due to shadowy disguise next hit = miss. But a quick light attack weave into an ability should hit them.

Light attacks missed too if I remember correctly. I'm assuming only abilities like AoEs and attacks that can't be dodged like fossilize would still hit.

I can't recall if shadowy disguise is a window of misses or next attack misses. It might be a window and the only benefit would be you can see them and use a detection pot or radiant magelight to reveal them. I know they have been making changes to some of these abilities and I haven't been playing for a while now so I'm not 100% on them anymore.

MartiniDaniels

Bosmer's eye don't dispel shadowy disguise that's for sure. Or it ticks very rare. If you won't use counter-cloak abilities, bosmers are ganked by standard nightblade means just fine.

CassandraGemini

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Woof Elf/Bosmer whining about a stealth passive, an open letter

git gud

Wow... just wow. I'm allergic against the whole "git gud" thing as it is (mostly because of one not ESO-related story that I won't post here so as not to derail the thread), but this comment here is so much beside the point of this discussion that it almost physically hurts me. How about if you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all?

OsManiaC

Wait... we still have these people in our community?

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Woof Elf/Bosmer whining about a stealth passive, an open letter

git gud

Jaraal

Yeah, as if "gitting gud" will help NPCs not notice you stealing.

Or perhaps he was referring to developer gameplay strategy? Hard to say. But we welcome all efforts to keep this thread visible. Thanks for posting!

SpringEternal

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Woof Elf/Bosmer whining about a stealth passive, an open letter
git gud

Haha, I love that this comment was made by KhajiitFelix. If losing the stealth passive is nothing to whine about, then surely you'll agree that acrobatic, cat-eyed Khajiit are better suited to Hunter's Eye and would have no problem swapping.

rfennell_ESO

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah, as if "gitting gud" will help NPCs not notice you stealing.

Or perhaps he was referring to developer gameplay strategy? Hard to say. But we welcome all efforts to keep this thread visible. Thanks for posting!

In truth with 3 +stealth sets (there is one on pts that's been added to elsweyr) You can get close to what Bosmer stealth used to be.

It's still a crock they took it away and then made Khajiit better than Bosmer used to be. But it's not all doom and gloom.

The change (in theory) isn't totally useless (except in pve, of course), but it is a bit of a raw deal to go from the master stealth race to no better than any other race (and worse than one).

BlueRaven

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah, as if "gitting gud" will help NPCs not notice you stealing.

Or perhaps he was referring to developer gameplay strategy? Hard to say. But we welcome all efforts to keep this thread visible. Thanks for posting!

In truth with 3 +stealth sets (there is one on pts that's been added to elsweyr) You can get close to what Bosmer stealth used to be.

It's still a crock they took it away and then made Khajiit better than Bosmer used to be. But it's not all doom and gloom.

The change (in theory) isn't totally useless (except in pve, of course), but it is a bit of a raw deal to go from the master stealth race to no better than any other race (and worse than one).

The thing is I got pretty good gear. Not 100% best in slot, but probably much better than the average player. I don't want to swap it out so I can get back my 3m of stealth.

Before I would sneak past mobs when doing a delve daily not because I had to, but because it was fun to get by them stealthily.
Now I just burn them down, it takes just a few moments, but I really feel like I lost a lot of the joy I got from my bosmers. They feel like a generic-stam-race now.
I play my bosmer because it is my main, but I am beginning to wonder if I should just switch over to my high elf magsorc who can burn down mobs just as fast (and gives a fun light show to boot).

wedgebert

BlueRaven wrote: »

I play my bosmer because it is my main, but I am beginning to wonder if I should just switch over to my high elf magsorc who can burn down mobs just as fast (and gives a fun light show to boot).

That's how I feel. With the Jubilee event, I leveled my first alt, a Breton healer, and with the loss of personality on my Bosmer, it's becoming more fun.

Except for the horse training. Screw that noise.

Sylvermynx

Sometimes.... the devs do stuff that just makes people sad. And sometimes.... those people don't DO SAD. Sometimes those people just keep on keepin' on.

Keep it up guys.... I'm rooting for ya!

BlueRaven

wedgebert wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I play my bosmer because it is my main, but I am beginning to wonder if I should just switch over to my high elf magsorc who can burn down mobs just as fast (and gives a fun light show to boot).

That's how I feel. With the Jubilee event, I leveled my first alt, a Breton healer, and with the loss of personality on my Bosmer, it's becoming more fun.

Except for the horse training. Screw that noise.

I have 13 level 50 characters all with max riding. About 1/2 of them have not bad gear too!

When the changed from vet levels to CP I had 6 vet level 16 characters. Lol

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Sometimes.... the devs do stuff that just makes people sad. And sometimes.... those people don't DO SAD. Sometimes those people just keep on keepin' on.

Keep it up guys.... I'm rooting for ya!

🙂 Thanks!

JadeCoin

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Wow... just wow. I'm allergic against the whole "git gud" thing as it is (mostly because of one not ESO-related story that I won't post here so as not to derail the thread), but this comment here is so much beside the point of this discussion that it almost physically hurts me. How about if you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all?

People say this mainly to troll. It's meant to elicit a negative emotional response, through the implication that you're not currently good, and that your perspective is without value. I've never seen it said to encourage people in a positive way to improve. If you feel physically hurt, that's probably the intent.

Empathy is the only actual way to connect with people and speak to them from a point of common ground, even when you disagree. People who express opinions without empathy aren't really communicating, they're just dismissing, justifying, or provoking.

JadeCoin

BlueRaven wrote: »

Before I would sneak past mobs when doing a delve daily not because I had to, but because it was fun to get by them stealthily.
Now I just burn them down, it takes just a few moments, but I really feel like I lost a lot of the joy I got from my bosmers. They feel like a generic-stam-race now.
I play my bosmer because it is my main, but I am beginning to wonder if I should just switch over to my high elf magsorc who can burn down mobs just as fast (and gives a fun light show to boot).

Agreed, it takes away the fun and the variety. I don't want all my characters to play the same way. My Bosmer thief is not my main, but I'm heartbroken by the changes anyway. She was my main stealth character, and when I wanted to play stealth, I played on her. It was something interesting and different, a whole other side to the game, and, as you say, it was tons of fun to be so sneaky! Whether she can burn mobs or not is irrelevant, since that was never what she was for. Any of my characters can do that.

CassandraGemini

JadeCoin wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Wow... just wow. I'm allergic against the whole "git gud" thing as it is (mostly because of one not ESO-related story that I won't post here so as not to derail the thread), but this comment here is so much beside the point of this discussion that it almost physically hurts me. How about if you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all?

People say this mainly to troll. It's meant to elicit a negative emotional response, through the implication that you're not currently good, and that your perspective is without value. I've never seen it said to encourage people in a positive way to improve. If you feel physically hurt, that's probably the intent.

Empathy is the only actual way to connect with people and speak to them from a point of common ground, even when you disagree. People who express opinions without empathy aren't really communicating, they're just dismissing, justifying, or provoking.

Yeah, that's very true. The thing is (and I'm still not going to tell the whole story, cause that would take to long, just the gist of it), these people are usually taken apart really easily when it comes to their own prowess in-game. Not saying that applies to all of them, but what I've experienced is, I've had my first PvP encounter EVER in another game, and got horribly murdered by this guy - who thought it was fun to troll me afterwards by writing me a PSMessage with the content "git gud lol". Yeah... I was very discouraged, but somehow kept on trying and, after a while got better, and then even good. Interestingly and by some hell of a coincidence, I met the very same guy again later, who tried to gank me cheaply, just like he had before. I managed to evade him and then it wasn't even really a fight, he went down so fast. Of course I remembered the guy's username (had given me some light form of PvP-PTSD after our first encounter) and his message and couldn't help writing back "so much for gitting gud, right? "

Well, what happened was, he answered with a rant, that I was "elitist scum" and should get out of his face and bother someone else, basically. Only in less nice words. Ever since then this whole "git gud" thing is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. I know it's not the best idea to even react to trolls, but I can't help it, this thing and the people who use it, pretty much just make me sick.

Koronach

So they can come in and insult people but my post got deleted for saying we know both our races lore better than them or the devs? lol ok

max_only

I was in Cyrodiil last week on a character that had the passive. I didn’t notice any difference. In fact I was snuck up on while repairing a door inside a keep and no, I didn’t see them 3 meters earlier than the rest of us on the door. They were able to come all the way into melee range to attack me.

Cundu_Ertur

max_only wrote: »

I was in Cyrodiil last week on a character that had the passive. I didn’t notice any difference. In fact I was snuck up on while repairing a door inside a keep and no, I didn’t see them 3 meters earlier than the rest of us on the door. They were able to come all the way into melee range to attack me.

You threw away the only advantage that passive has: 3 skill points for something else.

I'd much rather prefer that we get the stealth back than have anyone waste time on trying to fix the detection garbage that no-one even wants.