[Class Reps] Update & Meeting Notes - Jan 30, 2019

Lord_Eomer · February 2019

FeaR Turbo wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Balance was actually somewhat decent on the PTS, this will make it worse from the looks of it.

Dunmer OP, Altmer useless and nerfs to the poor Nords? Really?

NORD: However, before just nerfing or changing it, they would like to see some actual gameplay to see if these concerns come about.

Come on man!

Orc need no nerf, Dunmer are not OP either and should be maximized for Damage potentiol with no sustain and Altmers should be balance race Damage + Sustain rather than removing sustain.

Rikumaru · February 2019

I hope they don't plan to nerf fury and 7th, those are the few good sets which only solo / small scale players benefit from, rather I would like to see they buff / give good medium dmg sets to compete with fury and 7th. Also rather disappointed to hear about planned wood elf and high elf nerfs.

Lord_Eomer · February 2019

Rikumaru wrote: »

I hope they don't plan to nerf fury and 7th, those are the few good sets which only solo / small scale players benefit from, rather I would like to see they buff / give good medium dmg sets to compete with fury and 7th. Also rather disappointed to hear about planned wood elf and high elf nerfs.

7th Leon and Fury are sets giving enough burst in heavy armor, they definitely need to be toned down.

Rikumaru · February 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

I hope they don't plan to nerf fury and 7th, those are the few good sets which only solo / small scale players benefit from, rather I would like to see they buff / give good medium dmg sets to compete with fury and 7th. Also rather disappointed to hear about planned wood elf and high elf nerfs.

Rikumaru wrote: »

I hope they don't plan to nerf fury and 7th, those are the few good sets which only solo / small scale players benefit from, rather I would like to see they buff / give good medium dmg sets to compete with fury and 7th. Also rather disappointed to hear about planned wood elf and high elf nerfs.

7th Leon and Fury are sets giving enough burst in heavy armor, they definitely need to be toned down.

They benefit solo players and are worthless for zerglings / outnumbered players. Something we need more of.

Quaffio · February 2019

No! You did not hear our feedback that has been going on for years where you need to fix useless gear sets and make them viable. Nerfing Curse Eater into a single target only proc with a longer CD than 2 secs is a blatant and flat out nerf to the set to make it not viable again. The ONLY way you could possible make it viable if it's direct heals is if you remove the CD completely. OR just revert it back to the any heal proc with a CD of 2 seconds. Healers in this game are tired of ZOS consistently looking to nerf healers and heal sets into the ground. They need to stop listening to the people that whine and cry about not being able to mindlessly kill healers in pvp and start listening to the healers that are always in these forums asking for some kind of buff without losing something in return.

Iskiab · February 2019

Sounds like they need new class reps for pvp. Instead of giving good feedback they told the devs things to buff their play style.

FeaR Turbo · February 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

FeaR Turbo wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Balance was actually somewhat decent on the PTS, this will make it worse from the looks of it.

Dunmer OP, Altmer useless and nerfs to the poor Nords? Really?

Go and test Orc now, and compare their Sustain when the Brawler passive gets gutted tomorrow...

Orc was a great Stamina DPS race on 4.3.0 and 4.3.1 and by the looks of it, it will be gutted to be the new Nord...

I think it will be the opposite brother, (;

With Stam Sustain Nerf it will never be same, orc should keep sustain passive.

Think outside the bun

FrancisCrawford · February 2019

IronWooshu wrote: »

I dont understand at all....

Damage modifiers on races will always be more important than tanking or healing passive's since DPS players want to squeeze every bit of damage possible out while ANY race can pick up a sword and shield and tank with ease.

Nord has no damage, they are at the bottom of the damage tree in Stamina and Magicka yet a racial that generates ultimate only when taking damage is potentially broken? If anything as a tank, I am not always taking damage so I might not even get the full effect of the passive to begin with. As stated like Alcast mentioned, if we are to hold our war horn than the passive once again makes no difference to any other race. What if my trial group wants to run multiple war horns one after the other, unless everyone is Nord the one Nord tank is going to have to hold off and wait or there may be a gap in War Horn uptime.

Yet Nord is what you're worried about? Not Redguard who can permanently block with their crazy OP sustain and will become BiS for tanks and if that happens what does Nord really have going for them? Worst DPS, 2nd or 3rd best tank, maybe last depending on Imperials changes. Worst healers with no sustain, no sustain for any role really.

1k health? 500 more than Orc and Dark Elf who have crazy damage to go with them.

We are going right back to where we are now, weak options all around. I am pretty sure Alcast is the only rep that likes Nord. They seem very underrepresented on these boards and even in game.

It's sad really and top DPS races are getting more buffs to their DPS.

Help me understand?

TL/DR: Nord is already the last choice for DPS end game which means we are being forced into a tank role (the opposite of what you wanted with every race for any role) they have no sustain for healers but if the ult makes them BiS healers that really takes the "big tough nord" image out of whack and really hurts my pride with my Nord being reduced to a heal bot (my least favorite role). The more you scale other races damage, the further Nord falls down to only one option tank and if we can't even be best at that we are reduced to pure end game healers.

How is that balance? I bet currently on live 0.01% of Nord players rolled a Nord to heal.

@Joy_Division @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Wait a moment -- how is Redguard suddenly an OP tanking race???

MartiniDaniels · February 2019

susmitds wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Bosmer: ZOS has heard concerns about the stackable powerful movement speed. Bosmers will still get a speed boost off dodge, it just wont be as high....

Will be interesting to see where this lands. I agree that where it is on PTS, it's overperforming as a hit-and-run option.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

... Bosmers will get some short damage bonus as compensation.

Guess I'll wait for specifics, but mixing evasion with more damage seems like it could be really powerful.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

... Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before.

Any response to the fact that their new bonus to detecting stealthed players/npcs is not really useful to anyone?

Well, you are right about damage bonus and overall this makes all races almost the same with slight variations. I know nobody wants this, but my opinion that bosmer should be like best passive sustain race, so instead of additional damage it will be nice to have bonus to magickal recovery, it will be good for pvp for cloak, won;t make bosmer imbalanced in pve dps and will at least give a little something to bosmer healers.

Then might as well delete other races' stamNBs. I think they should get like 2-3m extra range on Bow Skills after dodge.

Well, how this will delete other races (orcs, dunmers) if those will still have higher burst potential. And all of this is really tricky, adding WD to bosmer may lead to "ruination" of redguard, while adding 128 magicka recovery will pay off only in long run. (1 extra cloak in one minute)
2-3m extra bow range is like another useless passive for 95% of players, only some disliked by everyone snipers will benefit from that, others will receive nothing.

Emma_Overload · February 2019

Rikumaru wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

I hope they don't plan to nerf fury and 7th, those are the few good sets which only solo / small scale players benefit from, rather I would like to see they buff / give good medium dmg sets to compete with fury and 7th. Also rather disappointed to hear about planned wood elf and high elf nerfs.

Rikumaru wrote: »

I hope they don't plan to nerf fury and 7th, those are the few good sets which only solo / small scale players benefit from, rather I would like to see they buff / give good medium dmg sets to compete with fury and 7th. Also rather disappointed to hear about planned wood elf and high elf nerfs.

7th Leon and Fury are sets giving enough burst in heavy armor, they definitely need to be toned down.

They benefit solo players and are worthless for zerglings / outnumbered players. Something we need more of.

They benefit STAMINA solo players. They also created an entire meta of heavy armor DPS-tanks who run around with 30K health and are unkillable by Magicka builds. They just soak up damage for a few seconds and then turn around and kill you when their weapon damage hits 4500 or whatever!

susmitds · February 2019

FeaR Turbo wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

FeaR Turbo wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Balance was actually somewhat decent on the PTS, this will make it worse from the looks of it.

Dunmer OP, Altmer useless and nerfs to the poor Nords? Really?

Go and test Orc now, and compare their Sustain when the Brawler passive gets gutted tomorrow...

Orc was a great Stamina DPS race on 4.3.0 and 4.3.1 and by the looks of it, it will be gutted to be the new Nord...

I think it will be the opposite brother, (;

With Stam Sustain Nerf it will never be same, orc should keep sustain passive.

Think outside the bun

With enough Passive damage increase, you can easily swap a weapon damage enchant for stamina recovery. Basically almost same regen as bosmer with more weapon damage.

mrpaxman · February 2019

"Time Stop: ZOS is raising the cost to 8100 magicka and indicated they are willing to make further adjustments If necessary."

I personally really do not like this change

PvE:
I use it occasionally in PvE while healing 4 person groups. I did today. I find it almost as good as most of my other skills except it becomes a little situational. As in, when lots of adds are around with a boss it works nicely. If there isn't a lot of trash. I don't use it and replace it with another skill. Most times/fights i do not use the skill. And very importantly, its fun.

PvP:
- I agree it is extremely effective and can completely see why the nerf of that nature was put in place.
- Away from keeps. If it is over performing. Then yeah, some sort of change required but not one that kills the skill some where between massively and completely in PvE. Although the nerf seemingly to me was made more to do with PvP keep fights mostly
- Defending a keep at a breach: It is extremely effective "when". paired with oils or siege. Or other large damage amounts made. It results in longer battles instead of door/wall down. Then next door down where keeps are easily won at that point like in the past before the skill was introduced. The longer battles at keeps has made fighting in those places a lot more fun and not over in a just a few minutes. If on the side that is not the winner of the keep after say half an hour battle. I still much more enjoy that then playing horse racing simulator. flip keep. Repeat. Or other things like breach is down and a bunch of people on siege ready get killed by the group running in so easily
- I also literally look to see if the campaign is pop locked and that determines whether i slot it, or mark target if on my magblade healer/DPS. Other skills for other classes but i still base it on pop lock to determine whether i slot it or not
in PvE i mentioned its fun. In PvP it's really fun

Also increasing the cost does not prevent more than 1 player using it to keep it constantly up at breaches always. breaches being not simply "its down" and all in, so easily. Is a good thing i say

I have given little time in thinking of other ways to change the skill. Some suggestions for changing/balancing the skill i can think would be better was if the stun lasted a little shorter duration on enemy players. Or possibly even adding break free to it and sharing the global cc cooldown. Spamming break free (by habit) whenever cc'd for so long is frustrating. Making it break free might or might not allow a little easier access for tanks to get through breaches. Either result i like. And would not kill the skill for PvE

ty

FrancisCrawford · February 2019

SodanTok wrote: »

Very good comment about Bosmer and ZoS staying resistant to the 'put stealth back' demands. Warband set change is also very welcomed. I like when feedback is listened to and at least acknowledged

It makes me sad, however. At some point in the indefinite future my stamblade thief will have the option of becoming a hideous vampire and being a great thief again, or whatever they're planning. In the mean time, however, his ability to scurry around the landscape doing minor quests and other tasks will be reduced.

MerlinsBrother · February 2019

So let me get this straight. Because Curse Eater is good for cleansing and great in PvP, it deserves a nerf?

PvP is about the struggle, the fight, the intense battles. If you take away anything that makes it even remotely rough for teams to compete, then what is the point?
So... Healers tend to get rough hit with debuffs, curses, etc in PvP already. Curse Eater would help immensely on groupd that DO NOT HAVE A TEMPLAR.... So Curse Eater would help the groups like this. People are only complaining about it on a Templar as I see it.

So think about the versatility of Nightblade, Sorc, Warden etc healers. Think outside the box here, sure it is great in PvP... but because it makes the fights longer, harder and more... What PvP is literally about, it gets nerfed to ranks of the Oblivion set in Vaults of Madness? I see this as a blatant slap to healers faces.

IronWooshu · February 2019

@Joy_Division Thank you for the reply, if ZoS wants to nerf the ultimate passive tell them to just change it completely to something else because if the ultimate passive gets any worse its really going to put the class in real bad spot making that passive completely useless and Nords if their already not a top tank race even further down. I understand they are worried it will make Nords BiS for tanks but how come they showed no care Redguards were BiS for all things Stamina for 4 years and then continue that trend buffing them even further?

@FrancisCrawford Look at Redguard's passives, sword and shield abilities will cost next to nothing and with that sustain being almost at 1k they could literally permablock the damage and every 6 seconds regain the lost stamina back instantly. Redguards have potential to once again be BiS DPS Stamina and BiS tanks.

FrancisCrawford · February 2019

IronWooshu wrote: »

@Joy_Division Thank you for the reply, if ZoS wants to nerf the ultimate passive tell them to just change it completely to something else because if the ultimate passive gets any worse its really going to put the class in real bad spot making that passive completely useless and Nords if their already not a top tank race even further down. I understand they are worried it will make Nords BiS for tanks but how come they showed no care Redguards were BiS for all things Stamina for 4 years and then continue that trend buffing them even further?

@FrancisCrawford Look at Redguard's passives, sword and shield abilities will cost next to nothing and with that sustain being almost at 1k they could literally permablock the damage and every 6 seconds regain the lost stamina back instantly. Redguards have potential to once again be BiS DPS Stamina and BiS tanks.

So you're assuming extreme investment in block cost reduction. Got it.

Skander · February 2019

Argonian rollback passives since the balance was too much?

sionIV · February 2019

Imperial need more help than a change to Red Diamond, unless it introduces Weapon/Spell Damage.

Dunmer did not need this buff, and you're throwing balance out the window with it.

Anhedonie · February 2019

So Dunmers are going to be bis race again? For f..sake.

Deathlord92 · February 2019

Sekt_Tiberlus wrote: »

For earlier sorry for my english...

DISSAPOINTED. You need to buff argonians with more stats, including stamina. Would be nice if you add them magic damage in % for magicka dps and posion and disease damage bonus(that would actually compensate the lack of stamina and a lore-friendly), that would not make them OP, but will make them more unique as dps.

ZOS, you promised us, that every race will have features for any role. But, i am an argonian dps, i play only argonians and play only dps, and yes, i like my potion passive and i extend the claw of my racial superiority. But, i still don't see any IMPORTANT features that would help me in dps, especially in stamina-build that i prefer too. May be you should consider the racial morphs? Still, i feel like you told me a lie. Please, reconsider the racial passives more wisely. It concerns not only with my race, you know, many would agree with me. I don't want to play other races and i will not. There are quite a lot of people that have their favourite race they play only with. Why do you limit their capabilities?

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @Joy_Division @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Well done.
Khajits better casters than High Elves.
Imperials have no affinity to magic.

What will be next? Argonians enslaving Dunmers?

How could Bethesda approve this lorebreaking disaster?

"-Khajits better casters than High Elves."
High elves are mediocre spell casters. You overestimate this silly disney-like race. Best mages are argonians, their chaotic and unstructured magic is superior. They are masters of Alteration and Transmutation and Great Serpent, the Sithis favors them. Khajiit have some magic features too.
"Imperials have no affinity to magic"
Imperials have classic school of Battlemages.
"Argonians enslaving Dunmers?"
Yes, why not? Saxhleel are superior. They actually conquered South Morrowind in 4 era.
And you are not enough enlightened in ascpects of lore. Needless to say about deep-lore...

I favour Bretons my main is a Breton stamblade as I played Breton assassin in previous elder scrolls games and I only play Bretons 😊

Rikumaru · February 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

I hope they don't plan to nerf fury and 7th, those are the few good sets which only solo / small scale players benefit from, rather I would like to see they buff / give good medium dmg sets to compete with fury and 7th. Also rather disappointed to hear about planned wood elf and high elf nerfs.

Rikumaru wrote: »

I hope they don't plan to nerf fury and 7th, those are the few good sets which only solo / small scale players benefit from, rather I would like to see they buff / give good medium dmg sets to compete with fury and 7th. Also rather disappointed to hear about planned wood elf and high elf nerfs.

7th Leon and Fury are sets giving enough burst in heavy armor, they definitely need to be toned down.

They benefit solo players and are worthless for zerglings / outnumbered players. Something we need more of.

They benefit STAMINA solo players. They also created an entire meta of heavy armor DPS-tanks who run around with 30K health and are unkillable by Magicka builds. They just soak up damage for a few seconds and then turn around and kill you when their weapon damage hits 4500 or whatever!

Until magicka has similar mobility to stamina (Snare and root removal), magicka solo open world will unfortunately remain kinda meh. I'm literally perma snared on my magblade atm.

MartiniDaniels · February 2019

IronWooshu wrote: »

@Joy_Division Thank you for the reply, if ZoS wants to nerf the ultimate passive tell them to just change it completely to something else because if the ultimate passive gets any worse its really going to put the class in real bad spot making that passive completely useless and Nords if their already not a top tank race even further down. I understand they are worried it will make Nords BiS for tanks but how come they showed no care Redguards were BiS for all things Stamina for 4 years and then continue that trend buffing them even further?

@FrancisCrawford Look at Redguard's passives, sword and shield abilities will cost next to nothing and with that sustain being almost at 1k they could literally permablock the damage and every 6 seconds regain the lost stamina back instantly. Redguards have potential to once again be BiS DPS Stamina and BiS tanks.

No. This changes makes all difference between stam races very small, so they all be almost the same which moves redguard out of his current top-dog role. And of course nobody expects redguard to became bis tank or at least desirable tank anyway. Due to CP tanks don't have much problems with sustain and mitigation, so main tank duty is to provide as much buffs/debuffs as possible, from that point magicka recovery and ultimate generation are far more useful then stamina sustain.

Virosh · February 2019

Good stuff, waiting to see what the changes will entail! And secretly praying for magicka imperial passive xD

Juhasow · February 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

FeaR Turbo wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Balance was actually somewhat decent on the PTS, this will make it worse from the looks of it.

Dunmer OP, Altmer useless and nerfs to the poor Nords? Really?

Go and test Orc now, and compare their Sustain when the Brawler passive gets gutted tomorrow...

Orc was a great Stamina DPS race on 4.3.0 and 4.3.1 and by the looks of it, it will be gutted to be the new Nord...

I think it will be the opposite brother, (;

With Stam Sustain Nerf it will never be same, orc should keep sustain passive.

All depends of how much damage will be increased.

Excelsus · February 2019

The race changes have me very excited and show a great amount of thought regarding both lore and balance on the dev side. Really happy and grateful for the attention given here, thanks guys! Hoping to see Imperial given the veersatility mentioned, I understand it would be impractical for a paid race to be best at anything but I want to see them good at multiple roles besides tanking reflecting their lore and position as the neutral race.

Savos_Saren · February 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Kikke wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The Altmer statement does sound rather negative. Spell Recharge is far behind the cost reduction and the 100 magicka regen of Breton. So Breton has the best sustain. Altmer lore wise, are the most enduring mages and have quick magicka recovery. So removing it completely seems like a very negative thing to do.

I was expecting spell recharge to get tuned up a bit, rather than being removed completely.

This. On PTS atm the races was balanced, this will only turn High Elf into a niche glass cannon race, and that is so against the lore. We are supposed the be the ones that brought magic too Tamriel, We were the ones that spread magic too the other races. Now tell me, why is other races better at magic than altmers again?

This change will do one thing: Critt based classes will do better next patch, while non critt classes will do worse. Why this hate towards non critt classes?

I am guessing Dunmer will be tuned up to 2k magicka and stamina or close enough to it. So what's the point in choosing Altmer ? Dunmer has so many stats and benefits even now. Now we presumibly even loose our sustain ?
I am tired of Halfbloods and impure Mer getting the better of us all the time.

The racials were perfect. There was no change needed except for Imperials maybe.
Of course the Morrowind fanatics get the cake once again. Let's just ignore all lore. Let's make Dunmer the best of everything.

Well, @Dracane if you want all the lore to apply- technically, Altmer would be very, very weak to magic attacks.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Races_(Morrowind) and https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Altmer_(Oblivion)

Which is the exact opposite of getting a 5% damage reduction when casting/channeling spells. (But you probably want to ignore, that part... right?)

With the newest class rep notes- I'd say we're getting closer to balance between races.

Starlock · February 2019

So... time stop will be nearly useless in PvE because of planned astronomical cast cost to satisfy PvP whiners. Thanks.

Azyle1 · February 2019

So... does this mean Khajiit will get more sustian????

When will we see these new changes? Monday?

IronWooshu · February 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

@Joy_Division Thank you for the reply, if ZoS wants to nerf the ultimate passive tell them to just change it completely to something else because if the ultimate passive gets any worse its really going to put the class in real bad spot making that passive completely useless and Nords if their already not a top tank race even further down. I understand they are worried it will make Nords BiS for tanks but how come they showed no care Redguards were BiS for all things Stamina for 4 years and then continue that trend buffing them even further?

@FrancisCrawford Look at Redguard's passives, sword and shield abilities will cost next to nothing and with that sustain being almost at 1k they could literally permablock the damage and every 6 seconds regain the lost stamina back instantly. Redguards have potential to once again be BiS DPS Stamina and BiS tanks.

So you're assuming extreme investment in block cost reduction. Got it.

What tank doesn't run block cost on their equipment?

BaylorCorvette · February 2019

Disappointed to see that Orc stam return is going to be removed. The healing aspect of Unflinching is super useless when you factor in battle spirit for PvP. To make it useful in PvP I feel like it would be really OP in PvE. I'm hopeful that the max stamina will be significant to make up for the loss of the sustain they were going to add.