[Class Reps] Update & Meeting Notes - Jan 30, 2019

SaintSubwayy

DPShiro wrote: »

Balance was actually somewhat decent on the PTS, this will make it worse from the looks of it.

Dunmer OP, Altmer useless and nerfs to the poor Nords? Really?

Go and test Orc now, and compare their Sustain when the Brawler passive gets gutted tomorrow...

Orc was a great Stamina DPS race on 4.3.0 and 4.3.1 and by the looks of it, it will be gutted to be the new Nord...

gepe87

Wait wait! ARENA weapons UPDATE!?

Zekka

Glad that ZOS will finally help Imperials and do something with Red Diamond that isn't just tweaking numbers.
There are absolutely no reasons for Orcs and Nords nerfs, Orc is finally in a good position for stam DPS and Nord for tank/PvP stamina brawler, in fact Nord could do with a slight health and stamina boost.

Minno

angeleda wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Time Stop: ZOS is raising the cost to 8100 magicka and indicated they are willing to make further adjustments If necessary.

While I acknowledge that the price for this skill (and its usefullness) was too low, the new price will shut out stamina players from using either morph. The whole skill line is already mainly magica-based and time stop is a pretty good crowd controll skill, I feel its wrong to only make it available to magica players.

Please reconsider. Maybe one morph of time stop should get stamina costs?

Else, as always: your time and efford is appriciated Class-reps. Please keep it up and going!

Psijic order were magicka based mages....


Also i gotta ask.... WHAT stam char (other than probably a very confused one) even uses timestop in any way shape or form???

Cyro zerglings trying to protect his xv1 tool lol

Galarthor

Minno wrote: »

angeleda wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Time Stop: ZOS is raising the cost to 8100 magicka and indicated they are willing to make further adjustments If necessary.

While I acknowledge that the price for this skill (and its usefullness) was too low, the new price will shut out stamina players from using either morph. The whole skill line is already mainly magica-based and time stop is a pretty good crowd controll skill, I feel its wrong to only make it available to magica players.

Please reconsider. Maybe one morph of time stop should get stamina costs?

Else, as always: your time and efford is appriciated Class-reps. Please keep it up and going!

Psijic order were magicka based mages....


Also i gotta ask.... WHAT stam char (other than probably a very confused one) even uses timestop in any way shape or form???

Cyro zerglings trying to protect his xv1 tool lol

The zerglings have a strong lobby as is evident from all the zerg-friendly changes over the past 4 years.

Deathlord92

Yes some positive adjustments to my Breton spell resistance thank you zos nords shouldn’t have more and thank you for this update everything looks nice and shows you guys are listening no one can say otherwise because looks like u guys covered everything here 😊

DarkPicture

I dont see any reasons for changes those all racial passives if u at monday will just make it how its exist on live servers. Buffs for argonians, dunmers makes them from being balanced to being BIS again... FFS why u trying to do changes if in results we will get same meta?

TheMythicDawn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Khajiit: ZOS generally liked what this race was offering, though indicated that some small boosts in the stats would be ideal. Stealth passive to be adjusted so they can’t literally walk under a guard’s nose without being seen.

Thanks for taking a look at this. That Khajiit super stealth was just nonsense. This reevaluation shows you value the integrity of your systems. Some players will cry about it no doubt, but they can go play Skyrim then if they want that broken stealth gameplay.

SodanTok

Very good comment about Bosmer and ZoS staying resistant to the 'put stealth back' demands. Warband set change is also very welcomed. I like when feedback is listened to and at least acknowledged

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Umm curious to anyone that's been testing, is the orcs new unflinching passive affected by battle spirit?

Vapirko

Looks good from a PvP perspective. So far so good with this new class rep system. A lot of the anger on the forums comes from not knowing whether ZOS knows about certain bugs/OP stuff or is trying to fix it or can’t or what. Semi regular posts like these really are great.

Lord_Eomer

No nerf to Nord, I will really feel bad for nord if nerf without any good reason. They are good with current patch and nerf will make them useless again.

Altmers need no nerf they are fine with their current passive.

Potion buff to argoion is over kill and healing done buff is enough.

Orc need sustain too, please no nerf.

Change to dunmer is good pure burst damage race without sustain. They should be doing most damage than other races.

Breton, Redguards, khajit and bosmers changes are in good direction

Imperial need buff and good to be overall balance race, imperial passive should allow to be choice as magicka dps

eso_lags

Where is the balance? I dont see it. You want orc to be a brawler but you are giving us 500 max stam and health. While other races get much more. Argonian, 3% is 1k max mag. Nord, 6% stam is 1500. Dunmer, 6% is 1250 stam. Orc is 6% to 500 health/stam... Im confused..

But maybe we'll get a bit more stam but less health.. Why not just give the race some healing passives, with the damage, so we can brawl. Because right now id be much better off brawling on an argonian which is apparently getting buffed with more potion resource return and more healing?? If i read that right.. Thats amazing. 4650 down to 3600.. Whats it going to go to 4k? And the healing. 5%-4%, does that go back to 5 or higher?

It doesnt seem like balance. It seems like some races, like some classes, are left out a bit.. Hopefully im wrong, but from what im gathering from this post, orc will be getting a bit more stam and will be losing the health (which im not sure how we lose health from 500) and the stam return on unflinching.. Will we be getting something else instead of that stam return?

TheYKcid

Overall good set of changes, imo.

Nice to hear Arena weapons will be re-evaluated, although the wording makes it sound like it will come after update 22, which is an awfully long time.

Altmer and Orc really shouldn't get any adjustments to their current racials. The balance of damage:sustain is just right and makes them competitive.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

eso_lags wrote: »

Where is the balance? I dont see it. You want orc to be a brawler but you are giving us 500 max stam and health. While other races get much more. Argonian, 3% is 1k max mag. Nord, 6% stam is 1500. Dunmer, 6% is 1250 stam. Orc is 6% to 500 health/stam... Im confused..

But maybe we'll get a bit more stam but less health.. Why not just give the race some healing passives, with the damage, so we can brawl. Because right now id be much better off brawling on an argonian which is apparently getting buffed with more potion resource return and more healing?? If i read that right.. Thats amazing. 4650 down to 3600.. Whats it going to go to 4k? And the healing. 5%-4%, does that go back to 5 or higher?

It doesnt seem like balance. It seems like some races, like some classes, are left out a bit.. Hopefully im wrong, but from what im gathering from this post, orc will be getting a bit more stam and will be losing the health (which im not sure how we lose health from 500) and the stam return on unflinching.. Will we be getting something else instead of that stam return?

your answers are here- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5750139/#Comment_5750139

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings everyone! First the combat team would like to thank you all for the feedback you’ve provided, and we want you to know that we’ve been closely monitoring the direction of the conversations thus far, and will be discussing them internally for potential adjustments if the feedback stays similar after PTS goes live. While we won’t be making any changes for the first PTS, there might be tweaks for PTS week 2. On that note, we’d like to clear up some commonly asked questions.

“Why are some of the stat values different when comparing races?”

In the initial post we referenced how each race had been balanced around our set bonus efficiency system, which aims to break down all the bonuses into a mathematical value of comparison. Each race uses a number as their benchmark (~6.5 set bonuses), and the values of their individual passives all add up to reach it. That means that not every bonus is compared one to one; such as the Orc’s Brawny passive vs the Imperial’s Tough and Imperial Mettle passives, nor were they compared point for point to their current bonuses on Live.

“Why are these stats lower than what I’m used to?”

Similarly to the note above, not all of the stats have been converted 1:1 in our adjustment from percentages to flat bonuses. The bonuses to Health, Magicka, and Stamina in particular will be lower compared to previously, since these will not scale with your Champion Point’s bonus of 20% increase. This is because they do not apply to your base stats, similarly to food or 5 piece bonuses. With this in mind, we increased some other areas of racial bonuses to make up for the potential loss of power.

Again, thank you all for the perspectives granted, and we look forward to seeing even more feedback once you get your hands on it this week, on the PTS!

Footfalls

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

To summarize, we decided to focus more on racial balance this update because racial choice was one of the larger outliers to our core mantra of the game - freedom. We wanted to expand the horizon for choice and present players with a self-reflecting question of “What is my playstyle or ideal build?”, providing options to help reach that individual answer. Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

1. Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Argonians: More healing done and higher resource return on potions.

Argonians: As one of your stated goals of this update was to "Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing", I hope you don't just buff the healing done for Argonians (which shoehorns them into healers), but instead keep the old Argonian passives of having both increased healing done and received (like +3% each or something if +5% each is too OP). This benefits tanking, healing, and damage dealing playstyles rather than just helping healers only.

Olupajmibanan

Well done.
Khajits better casters than High Elves.
Imperials have no affinity to magic.

What will be next? Argonians enslaving Dunmers?

How could Bethesda approve this lorebreaking disaster?

Suddwrath

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Shade: Unfortunately, like in-combat, ZOS’s engineers are still trying to get to the bottom of this bug.

It sounds like it was a very productive meeting and I'm glad to hear that the Class Reps voiced many of the concerns of the community.

But I think I'm going to stop playing the game until the devs figure out how their engine works. It's becoming rather annoying how they keep breaking random systems with each update. Hopefully the engineering talent they brought in this year will be able to address this.

susmitds

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Khajits better casters than High Elves.

I dunno, where you are getting this information. Apart from Magicka Templars, I am yet to find a single class where Altmers, or for that matter Dunmer, performed objectively worse than Khajiit.

DeathStalker

Dracane wrote: »

The Altmer statement does sound rather negative. Spell Recharge is far behind the cost reduction and the 100 Magicka regen of Breton. So Breton has the best sustain.

Maybe I'm being paranoid but it does read like they are about to absolutely destroy High Elves.

Sekt_Tiberlus

For earlier sorry for my english...

DISSAPOINTED. You need to buff argonians with more stats, including stamina. Would be nice if you add them magic damage in % for magicka dps and posion and disease damage bonus(that would actually compensate the lack of stamina and a lore-friendly), that would not make them OP, but will make them more unique as dps.

ZOS, you promised us, that every race will have features for any role. But, i am an argonian dps, i play only argonians and play only dps, and yes, i like my potion passive and i extend the claw of my racial superiority. But, i still don't see any IMPORTANT features that would help me in dps, especially in stamina-build that i prefer too. May be you should consider the racial morphs? Still, i feel like you told me a lie. Please, reconsider the racial passives more wisely. It concerns not only with my race, you know, many would agree with me. I don't want to play other races and i will not. There are quite a lot of people that have their favourite race they play only with. Why do you limit their capabilities?

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @Joy_Division @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Well done.
Khajits better casters than High Elves.
Imperials have no affinity to magic.

What will be next? Argonians enslaving Dunmers?

How could Bethesda approve this lorebreaking disaster?

"-Khajits better casters than High Elves."
High elves are mediocre spell casters. You overestimate this silly disney-like race. Best mages are argonians, their chaotic and unstructured magic is superior. They are masters of Alteration and Transmutation and Great Serpent, the Sithis favors them. Khajiit have some magic features too.
"Imperials have no affinity to magic"
Imperials have classic school of Battlemages.
"Argonians enslaving Dunmers?"
Yes, why not? Saxhleel are superior. They actually conquered South Morrowind in 4 era.
And you are not enough enlightened in ascpects of lore. Needless to say about deep-lore...

nckg84

Where is the PvP representitive. The one who actually states that pvp is a shithole because ZOS has potato servers and code that can't handle anything?

Dracane

DeathStalker wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The Altmer statement does sound rather negative. Spell Recharge is far behind the cost reduction and the 100 Magicka regen of Breton. So Breton has the best sustain.

Maybe I'm being paranoid but it does read like they are about to absolutely destroy High Elves.

This is what I gather from it as well, hence why I am in such an uproar.
This patch had the potential to be something pleasant for a change. But no, it wouldn't be an Elder Scrolls Online update without destroying something in the end.

Chilly-McFreeze

Hmm.... Don't know how I should feel about the Altmer/Dunmer dilemma. Although I don't get the "whining about the whining of dunmer players".

On PTS1 altmer have

1. same spell dmg
2. more max mag
3. more sustain

than Dunmers. So I see no reason to use a Dunmer over an Altmer in PvE. The stam & fire res boni are irrelevant there.

However, raising Dunmer's max mag while taking away Altmer's sustain can only mean they will buff Altmer's damage somehow.

They also didn't said by how much they will raise the Dunmer max stats. If they take out the 600 health for it, which equals to half a set piece bonus, it means that they will raise stam and mag by a quarter bonus each, so +250, means Altmer will still have more max mag and therefore higher mag damage potential.

And the "but dunmer have both resources buffed, so they are good at stam and mag damage" doesn't really fly, since hybrids aren't a thing, pve wise Altmer would still be better as mag and half their passive are wasted there. Plus orcs will recieve a dmg bonus via max stam as well for the other side of the argument.

I will wait until tomorrow to decide how I feel about it.

Emma_Overload

Veteran LFG groups most likely would just get rekt over and over again

So ZOS hasn't learned anything. I'm not buying this DLC unless I can farm the monster helmets through Group Finder.

DeathStalker

After thinking about this some, here is a positive suggestion.

Why not make High Elves have great damage and a little sustain and Brenton's have great sustain and a little damage. Then you would have a real choice and Brenton would be just as viable as the High Elves.

mb10

magicka wardens just want their old arctic blast back please

with the damage scaling from magicka/spell damage

that is all we want, nobody is using the new arctic blast!

Vapirko

TheYKcid wrote: »

Overall good set of changes, imo.

Nice to hear Arena weapons will be re-evaluated, although the wording makes it sound like it will come after update 22, which is an awfully long time.

Altmer and Orc really shouldn't get any adjustments to their current racials. The balance of damage:sustain is just right and makes them competitive.

I like the max Stam in exchange for the Stam return but I really don’t want to trade more max health away too.

Joy_Division

@IronWooshu - My main is a Nord, so I am well aware of your concerns. That being said, the ultimate generation passive is difficult to quantify, so I do think it is best to actually see how Nords play in the next update before declaring the race is under performing or overpowered in any respect. I have waited years for ZOS to make adjustments so they weren't just second-rate tanks. If they are need of more, I most certainly will make it a point.

All who are frustrated with the in-combat bug: You can ask the devs, when this subject came up, I got emotionally about the response and let your frustrations be 1000% crystal clear. There was discussion on this issue and I pushed back probably harder than I should have when the "we're looking into it" response was given.

It became clear to me that yelling at ZOS isn't going to get the bug fixed sooner and they are not going to do away with the in-combat system because they see it as vital to how the game's combat system works. In short, you are going to be stuck in combat and nothing said at the meeting was going to change the reality of that situation.

That being said, these are my suggestions for at least being able to actually play the game stuck in combat. There are things we'd need to do in order to at least try to play the map strategically. ZOS has indicated they are willing to let us do things while in combat, so approach the problem from this angle. If I could do the following three things in combat next patch, I'd take it and wouldn't complain while they hunt down the bug:

1. Use Transitus: Something they already said they see no problem
2. Switch quick slot: I can't see a huge issue here
3. Mount. This one might be tricky. Maybe we can put a penalty (such as the horse having zero stamina) or put in a restriction, such as ten seconds of zero in combat actions, i.e., healing, damaging, debuffing, or buffing, before being eligible to mount..

You're not going to get them to switch skills or gear. If you can chime in on why these actions are needed to play the Cyrodiil map and help convince ZOS to make it so we can do them even in combat, that's our best chance to deal with being stuck in combat.

TheYKcid

Vapirko wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Overall good set of changes, imo.

Nice to hear Arena weapons will be re-evaluated, although the wording makes it sound like it will come after update 22, which is an awfully long time.

Altmer and Orc really shouldn't get any adjustments to their current racials. The balance of damage:sustain is just right and makes them competitive.

I like the max Stam in exchange for the Stam return but I really don’t want to trade more max health away too.

The loss of stam restore passive is going to necessitate the slotting of 1 additional jewelry regen glyph (at the cost of a WD glyph) on a PvP build to break-even after this change.

There's no way the increase to max stam is going to compensate fully for that. They'd need to buff the Orc max stam passive up to about 2k, since WD scales so much better than stam, especially on a medium build.

And with the loss in effective weapon damage, your heal tooltips are going to drop, and that's going to erode the compensatory buff to healing, too.

My best estimate is that it'll be a net nerf to Orc. We'll wait til tomorrow to see, though.