ZOS! What happens to MagNB?

NyassaV

Kewpie wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Kewpie wrote: »

You should learn more guys, yes magnb is much less effective than sorc, but you still can play as funny as nb is. I found that using monster "defensive" set + mundus lady will grant you a lot of resists.No more one-shots. Just place cleanse on 2nd bar, and watch out for dots, cleanse them and you can ez use cloak again. So magnb is about running around using dots, and mostly stay in stealth, waiting for execute enemies.

mate it's fun to play it. was and is. but here isn't compare of the who's staff is longer. but about balance. with details.

Please before writing how u should deal with all that - count the cost of Purge morfs and how many effects it cleance off on activation..it will answer why it's not an real option. About mundus lady and resists in general - read why the bleeds are so effective in compare with all other dots. cloak...I wrote a huge text about about cloak in my previous comment.

Mage nb is fun, but it is so less effective nowadays than any other class now.
It's like a cool llking sport car with weak and unsafe engine.
Because of the all above described things:(

I am playing on magnb last month, and dont tell me that purge is not an option. I never had more than 3 dots, and always ez to clean them. The cost of cleanse is high (but you need to have a good resource regen or take magicka cost reduction set, as I wanna) or just morph to more cheaper purge, that is an option. Only purge or Wyrd Tree's Blessing nowadays is must have for magnb if you wanna use stealth. Its a game mechanic, when you cant enter stealth with dots on yourself(like in all other mmo games). Yea maybe I want to have class cleanse skill, but nowadays there is no such skill.

Purge is not an option

It's embarrassing that I have to explain why. (Way to damn expensive for only 2 negative effects.)

kaithuzar

@thankyourat
So just to be clear either
1) being a dark elf
Or
2) using flame resist enchant

Allows your opponent(s) to not proc the burning status effect on you.
The actual resistance is negligible, but the ability to mitigate burning as a status effect could be seen as invaluable.

I look at it as “what am I weak to” in an effort to make a well rounded build. I don’t like creating a build that can beat everyone except X. So my mitigation is fine vs everyone else but if I’m melting via a specific class or type (mag/stam) then I try to build to strengthen my weaknesses.

Datthaw

The best thing ever would be snare removal in refreshing path..

The more I think about it the more it makes sense, that way it can keep the really *** hot that needed a buff. It can't be abused in stealth because it's "aoe" and pulls from stealth. Stam can't abuse it along with cloak, way too mag expensive. It gives magnb a good but not op buff that opens playstyles.

Iskiab

Refreshing path needs more than snare removal. As a pve dps twisting path is okay, as a healer refreshing path’s area is too small. Both aren’t very good in pvp.

If you cast one of them in a straight line you get about 1-2 seconds of run speed. Everyone says NBs have no group utility, sad as it is I think path is supposed to be our group utility ability.

ChefZero

Iskiab wrote: »

Refreshing path needs more than snare removal. As a pve dps twisting path is okay, as a healer refreshing path’s area is too small. Both aren’t very good in pvp.

If you cast one of them in a straight line you get about 1-2 seconds of run speed. Everyone says NBs have no group utility, sad as it is I think path is supposed to be our group utility ability.

True, beside ultimates NB kit lacks utility for group play.

Sheuib

Hate to say it but heavy armor isn’t just for Stam builds.

Knootewoot

HaruKamui wrote: »

What triggers me the most is that people disregard valid complaints about magblade in PVP because cloak

Most players hate cloak but for invalid reasons. And they probably never played (melee) magblade themselves.
I have been cursed over and over and over for using cloak, which is my only means of defence.
Can I perma cloak? Yes.
Do I perma cloak? Well, yes if the fight is not going my way. But it's no different then a sorc perma triple shielding when in danger. With my poor vampire body in light armor I have to do something to protect myself right?

But it's not the magblades permacloak that is the issue. If you pop a detect potions, you can see the magblade probably didn't get far. They are not fast and mostly snared.
If there is a problem with cloak, it is the stamblades. They get their snare immunity, pop a vigor, which they anicancel with dodge roll on bow bar, pop a cloak and they are way ahead of you.
I have a stamblade myself, which not only is way more deadly, but also better in escaping due to dodge roll and snare immunity.

Datthaw

Sheuib wrote: »

Hate to say it but heavy armor isn’t just for Stam builds.

What do you run on a heavy armor magnb?

Jsmalls

MagNbs are that class that looks REEEALLY good on paper:
Pros: Has a Spammable, high burst attack, execute, single target high burst ultimate, AoE CC, minor berserk, numerous buffs, major defile debuff, ability to reset a fight or disengage a fight, 8% Max Magicka passive, and the list goes on.

Cons: Poor defense outside of cloak

And that list looks very one sided to pros. But this game is SOOOO anti offensive that most of the time the only thing you really notice is a good defense. There is so much damage mitigation in the game that being offensive punishes you as a player. That's why MagNbs as a class don't feel right. Because they are designed to dispatch an opponent quickly, cloak and move on to the next. Good luck doing that when any player with at least 3/10 fingers can outheal/outmitigate your damage output.

It's the problem with a lot of offensive burst classes. And it's why I don't think this game is as fun as it used to be.

ChefZero

Knootewoot wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

What triggers me the most is that people disregard valid complaints about magblade in PVP because cloak

Most players hate cloak but for invalid reasons. And they probably never played (melee) magblade themselves.
I have been cursed over and over and over for using cloak, which is my only means of defence.
Can I perma cloak? Yes.
Do I perma cloak? Well, yes if the fight is not going my way. But it's no different then a sorc perma triple shielding when in danger. With my poor vampire body in light armor I have to do something to protect myself right?

But it's not the magblades permacloak that is the issue. If you pop a detect potions, you can see the magblade probably didn't get far. They are not fast and mostly snared.
If there is a problem with cloak, it is the stamblades. They get their snare immunity, pop a vigor, which they anicancel with dodge roll on bow bar, pop a cloak and they are way ahead of you.
I have a stamblade myself, which not only is way more deadly, but also better in escaping due to dodge roll and snare immunity.

Your second sentence is the best example that Cloak is the problem. The issue with cloak in therms of balancing is that a ranged NB (no matter Stam or Mag) can use cloak without restrictions while melee build's have to deal with the counters. If only melee build's had access to cloak/shade combo balancing would be much better.

kaithuzar

ChefZero wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

What triggers me the most is that people disregard valid complaints about magblade in PVP because cloak

Most players hate cloak but for invalid reasons. And they probably never played (melee) magblade themselves.
I have been cursed over and over and over for using cloak, which is my only means of defence.
Can I perma cloak? Yes.
Do I perma cloak? Well, yes if the fight is not going my way. But it's no different then a sorc perma triple shielding when in danger. With my poor vampire body in light armor I have to do something to protect myself right?

But it's not the magblades permacloak that is the issue. If you pop a detect potions, you can see the magblade probably didn't get far. They are not fast and mostly snared.
If there is a problem with cloak, it is the stamblades. They get their snare immunity, pop a vigor, which they anicancel with dodge roll on bow bar, pop a cloak and they are way ahead of you.
I have a stamblade myself, which not only is way more deadly, but also better in escaping due to dodge roll and snare immunity.

Your second sentence is the best example that Cloak is the problem. The issue with cloak in therms of balancing is that a ranged NB (no matter Stam or Mag) can use cloak without restrictions while melee build's have to deal with the counters. If only melee build's had access to cloak/shade combo balancing would be much better.

It’s called an “invisibility potion”; you’re welcome.

ChefZero

kaithuzar wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

What triggers me the most is that people disregard valid complaints about magblade in PVP because cloak

Most players hate cloak but for invalid reasons. And they probably never played (melee) magblade themselves.
I have been cursed over and over and over for using cloak, which is my only means of defence.
Can I perma cloak? Yes.
Do I perma cloak? Well, yes if the fight is not going my way. But it's no different then a sorc perma triple shielding when in danger. With my poor vampire body in light armor I have to do something to protect myself right?

But it's not the magblades permacloak that is the issue. If you pop a detect potions, you can see the magblade probably didn't get far. They are not fast and mostly snared.
If there is a problem with cloak, it is the stamblades. They get their snare immunity, pop a vigor, which they anicancel with dodge roll on bow bar, pop a cloak and they are way ahead of you.
I have a stamblade myself, which not only is way more deadly, but also better in escaping due to dodge roll and snare immunity.

Your second sentence is the best example that Cloak is the problem. The issue with cloak in therms of balancing is that a ranged NB (no matter Stam or Mag) can use cloak without restrictions while melee build's have to deal with the counters. If only melee build's had access to cloak/shade combo balancing would be much better.

It’s called an “invisibility potion”; you’re welcome.

I don't get it, maybe I'm dumb or because it's late

kaithuzar

ChefZero wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

What triggers me the most is that people disregard valid complaints about magblade in PVP because cloak

Most players hate cloak but for invalid reasons. And they probably never played (melee) magblade themselves.
I have been cursed over and over and over for using cloak, which is my only means of defence.
Can I perma cloak? Yes.
Do I perma cloak? Well, yes if the fight is not going my way. But it's no different then a sorc perma triple shielding when in danger. With my poor vampire body in light armor I have to do something to protect myself right?

But it's not the magblades permacloak that is the issue. If you pop a detect potions, you can see the magblade probably didn't get far. They are not fast and mostly snared.
If there is a problem with cloak, it is the stamblades. They get their snare immunity, pop a vigor, which they anicancel with dodge roll on bow bar, pop a cloak and they are way ahead of you.
I have a stamblade myself, which not only is way more deadly, but also better in escaping due to dodge roll and snare immunity.

Your second sentence is the best example that Cloak is the problem. The issue with cloak in therms of balancing is that a ranged NB (no matter Stam or Mag) can use cloak without restrictions while melee build's have to deal with the counters. If only melee build's had access to cloak/shade combo balancing would be much better.

It’s called an “invisibility potion”; you’re welcome.

I don't get it, maybe I'm dumb or because it's late

Actually I’m dumb, I was half paying attention & mistook “melee builds” for stamina opponents, not mag melee like was intended...ie.. I thought you were another stam dk complaining about how cloak is op.

Knootewoot

New ganking build:

- Place feartrap on road
- Hide behind tree with cold fire balista
- Watch enemy on horse be feared
- fire balista
- do /norddance on corpse

insta hate whispers

Tonight i will try wearing vicious death and just shoot balista's in groups.

Datthaw

Knootewoot wrote: »

New ganking build:

- Place feartrap on road
- Hide behind tree with cold fire balista
- Watch enemy on horse be feared
- fire balista
- do /norddance on corpse

insta hate whispers

Tonight i will try wearing vicious death and just shoot balista's in groups.

You win

kaithuzar

I’m pretty tanky but things like poison injection & dots, I had 1 that ticked 8 times before I died, are hitting me really hard.

Opponents are also pretty tank b/c everyone is using s&b & 90% of Cyrodiil is a dk spamming wings with the other 10% being warden with ice shield or whatever it’s called.
I’m still able to win some fights against them, mainly b/c I have fully buffed ~30.5k mag resist however my physical resist is only at ~25k. I’m not sure if the attacks or dots are critting & that’s why I’m taking dmg?
I’m going to boost crit resistance & try that out. I’ll lose some damage but maybe it’ll work out.

brandonv516

Knootewoot wrote: »

New ganking build:

- Place feartrap on road
- Hide behind tree with cold fire balista
- Watch enemy on horse be feared
- fire balista
- do /norddance on corpse

insta hate whispers

Tonight i will try wearing vicious death and just shoot balista's in groups.

Hope us console plebs have a chance at this.

Knootewoot

Well, i tried normal PvP tonight with the same build before the patch. How do you guys find it? It looks to me my damage is very low to enemies. I wear spinners and a damage set like innate axiom or warmaiden. Or when i use firestaff abilities i use the set that gives extra detro damage (forgot name)
Seems like every enemy i come across has 40k health and heavy armor and mitigates everything i do. Today was not a good day for me at least (

Sy1ph5

Knootewoot wrote: »

Well, i tried normal PvP tonight with the same build before the patch. How do you guys find it? It looks to me my damage is very low to enemies. I wear spinners and a damage set like innate axiom or warmaiden. Or when i use firestaff abilities i use the set that gives extra detro damage (forgot name)
Seems like every enemy i come across has 40k health and heavy armor and mitigates everything i do. Today was not a good day for me at least (

Step 1 take off spider cultist and decon it. Step 2 in cyrodil to an extent you can pick your targets so look at health bars before you pick your target.
Step 3 gotta combo multiple skills together spectral bow being the key skill that needs to land.

kaithuzar

@Knootewoot ,
I was doing well with spinner & innate axiom. I was using concealed & assassin’s will though w/2h sword (which they gave a small ~1% dmg buff) & not a fire staff.
As a note, I had 16k pen w/sharpened+cp

Sure there are plenty of tanks but most could not do damage to me because I’m not a vampire & did a race change from altmer to something tankier.

HowlKimchi

I actually think that just getting a snare removal on any magblade skill (I prefer refreshing path, just remove the speed buff in place of a snare removal ffs) is enough to make it competitive again, and my reasoning is this:

Getting snare removal will give us the defense we need, and we wont *have* to go heavy armor or defensive sets since we will have the mobility to make space with cloak/shadow image. Which means we will be able to run damage sets more reliably. Having snare removal = better defense which leads to better offense.

As for everything being reflectable, the Mag DK matchup will always be hard for us, similar to how Mag DKs will always have a tough time against magplars. When i'm up against Mag DKs i just usually switch my spammable to concealed while still on my flame staff and it works out.

Noctus

HaruKamui wrote: »

As for everything being reflectable, the Mag DK matchup will always be hard for us, similar to how Mag DKs will always have a tough time against magplars. When i'm up against Mag DKs i just usually switch my spammable to concealed while still on my flame staff and it works out.

its not true that they have a hard time against magplars unless they are inexperienced (u can break out of eclipse). what is rly annoying (like itching inside my brain) concealed weapon is just so much worse than suprise attack. we talking about 5 k + resistance debuff on a heavy hitting skill. when i use concealed weapon it just makes me want to switch to stamblade.

the best solution in the forum ive ever seen was that reflect should only work if ur not in melee distance (thats rly smart).
u have to take a look at those skills and mechanisms on other classes for example u can use radiant light or potions to counter cloak. u can break free of eclipse.

what can u do against dk reflect ? nothing rly except spamming 1 skill when u have it equiped. u cant win a fight by using 1 ability.

Datthaw

Noctus wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

As for everything being reflectable, the Mag DK matchup will always be hard for us, similar to how Mag DKs will always have a tough time against magplars. When i'm up against Mag DKs i just usually switch my spammable to concealed while still on my flame staff and it works out.

its not true that they have a hard time against magplars unless they are inexperienced (u can break out of eclipse). what is rly annoying (like itching inside my brain) concealed weapon is just so much worse than suprise attack. we talking about 5 k + resistance debuff on a heavy hitting skill. when i use concealed weapon it just makes me want to switch to stamblade.

the best solution in the forum ive ever seen was that reflect should only work if ur not in melee distance (thats rly smart).
u have to take a look at those skills and mechanisms on other classes for example u can use radiant light or potions to counter cloak. u can break free of eclipse.

what can u do against dk reflect ? nothing rly except spamming 1 skill when u have it equiped. u cant win a fight by using 1 ability.

Yeah magnb used to have decent pressure but now it's like burst or go home. You can't build into dots and pressure anymore. It's why my skoria has been in my invis collecting dust.

JusticeSouldier

Kewpie wrote: »

its only on paper 2 secs and more than 3 dots. Never meet that, maybe you did wrong?

lol, maybe u should start learn the game?

Chubarov_S

Removing "minor berserk"? Are you serious? Or is it a joke for April 1?

Shadow-Fighter

Chubarov_S wrote: »

Removing "minor berserk"? Are you serious? Or is it a joke for April 1?

No, its not a joke. Just necro'd

Same happened to our other class skills before warden released...

HowlKimchi

Chubarov_S wrote: »

Removing "minor berserk"? Are you serious? Or is it a joke for April 1?

We have to wait for the full patch notes. I am cautiously optimistic that us magblades are going to be buffed pvp wise next patch.

But if not, then idk i'll probably quit magblade for a while to work on my necro.

Iskiab

HaruKamui wrote: »

Chubarov_S wrote: »

Removing "minor berserk"? Are you serious? Or is it a joke for April 1?

We have to wait for the full patch notes. I am cautiously optimistic that us magblades are going to be buffed pvp wise next patch.

But if not, then idk i'll probably quit magblade for a while to work on my necro.

Agreed, but leveling a necro doing pvp and dailies doesn’t take long. I’ll definitely want to try it. You can’t trust forums, and I’m sure there’ll be 20 necro is OP and necro sucks threads.

Magblade will likely always be my main unless they completely gut it. Losing minor berserk doesn’t phase me at all.

Datthaw

Iskiab wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Chubarov_S wrote: »

Removing "minor berserk"? Are you serious? Or is it a joke for April 1?

We have to wait for the full patch notes. I am cautiously optimistic that us magblades are going to be buffed pvp wise next patch.

But if not, then idk i'll probably quit magblade for a while to work on my necro.

Agreed, but leveling a necro doing pvp and dailies doesn’t take long. I’ll definitely want to try it. You can’t trust forums, and I’m sure there’ll be 20 necro is OP and necro sucks threads.

Magblade will likely always be my main unless they completely gut it. Losing minor berserk doesn’t phase me at all.

it's not the end of the world oh, but it does hurt oh, and it's completely uncalled for

Edit, not sure how this "oh's" got in there but I like it

JusticeSouldier

stopped play magblade until some snare changes.
too obvious weakness. snared, rooted, focused.
here, all your damage and healing sounrces are reflectable.
only one way to counter snares and roots is to be vampire.
and 2hander option isn't competitive in current system.
shadow image and cloak are easy as hell to be completly ignored with frost aoes and detect potions.
there is no point to waste time until these things will be somehow reworked