ZOS! What happens to MagNB?

kaithuzar

It’s not the best, but I still have decent success with my build/playstyle.
(Of course we need buffs/changes & I’ll be swapping to Breton next patch & switching things around)
5 light 2 heavy, all impen, 2h sword + resto high elf non-vamp
5 seducer, 5 spinner, 1 pirate 1 chudan
Witch mothers, tri stat glyphs, infused spell dmg

I think 1 infused recovery & 2 infused spell damage, recovery mundus.

That’s the easy build I’ve settled on.

The harder but not necessarily better is:
Swapping seducer for impreg, using nirnhoned on light & reinforced on heavy.
Jewelry is all infused, 1 reduced cost, 1 recovery, 1 spell damage & use molag kena monster set.

Both are decent, skills are same, I run forward momentum, concealed for dmg, front bar soul harvest, back bar psijic ult & blessing of restoration.

I run back bar asylum staff but you could do something else.

Try either out if you like the brawler style & let me know what you think.

Datthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

It’s not the best, but I still have decent success with my build/playstyle.
(Of course we need buffs/changes & I’ll be swapping to Breton next patch & switching things around)
5 light 2 heavy, all impen, 2h sword + resto high elf non-vamp
5 seducer, 5 spinner, 1 pirate 1 chudan
Witch mothers, tri stat glyphs, infused spell dmg

I think 1 infused recovery & 2 infused spell damage, recovery mundus.

That’s the easy build I’ve settled on.

The harder but not necessarily better is:
Swapping seducer for impreg, using nirnhoned on light & reinforced on heavy.
Jewelry is all infused, 1 reduced cost, 1 recovery, 1 spell damage & use molag kena monster set.

Both are decent, skills are same, I run forward momentum, concealed for dmg, front bar soul harvest, back bar psijic ult & blessing of restoration.

I run back bar asylum staff but you could do something else.

Try either out if you like the brawler style & let me know what you think.

Seducer in 5l? Do you try to just perma cloak? Or for just the ability to spam our *** shields? Lol. I see you play 2h which I really enjoy in cyro, but how's your damage with just spinner? I've found its risky to build mercy stack melee range in light and have to build on back bar resto. I'm just interested in how other people play 2h

ChefZero

I'm just wondering why Amber Plasm is barely mentioned in builds.. Is it because it's a dungeon set?

kaithuzar

@Datthaw

I’m tanky enough from 1 pirate, 1 chudan (or lord warden 1 piece, they all do the same)
That I normally don’t get 1 shot & have a burst heal in case my health dips lower than I like. Also using psijic ult allows me to reposition & if I’m on my back bar I’m taking 8% less damage!

I’m not permanently in cloak but I do use it to have the opponents attack “miss me”, if I see a crystal frag or something headed my way; Sometimes you have to “guess/assume” its coming to make it work.

You have to remember, it’s not “just spinner...”
Julianos gives ~300 sp dmg... I basically get that from 1 infused sp dmg & I’m running 2 of them; so damage is decent imo.
On the “harder build” molag kena makes up for only 1 infused spell dmg glyph.

Datthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Datthaw

I’m tanky enough from 1 pirate, 1 chudan (or lord warden 1 piece, they all do the same)
That I normally don’t get 1 shot & have a burst heal in case my health dips lower than I like. Also using psijic ult allows me to reposition & if I’m on my back bar I’m taking 8% less damage!

I’m not permanently in cloak but I do use it to have the opponents attack “miss me”, if I see a crystal frag or something headed my way; Sometimes you have to “guess/assume” its coming to make it work.

You have to remember, it’s not “just spinner...”
Julianos gives ~300 sp dmg... I basically get that from 1 infused sp dmg & I’m running 2 of them; so damage is decent imo.
On the “harder build” molag kena makes up for only 1 infused spell dmg glyph.

I'm still rocking swift on some sets... I was stupid and changed for that meta, but yoy kinda had to. I have had alot of people talk about triune and protective. But infused with 5l seducer might be the right way to go. I've thought alot about 5 shackle 5 bright throat all tri glyph and triune jewels but I need to finish my jewelry research or have someone craft them (I slack on research if you can't tell)

Iskiab

ChefZero wrote: »

I'm just wondering why Amber Plasm is barely mentioned in builds.. Is it because it's a dungeon set?

It’s because all magblade healing is tied to how much damage you do. Amber plasm looks good as a sustain set where you get stamina too, but your damage and self healing will suffer. I much prefer bright throat and cloak spam so I don’t have to use as much stamina.

The cost of magNB abilities has been increased too, to the point where you need as much mag regen as you can get.

If you’re a magblade I’d try healing. NB healers are pretty good.

Metemsycosis

Wanted to say. Blessing of restoration has been good between fights, thanks for that suggestion. I use it underneath harness and healing ward.

Btw it's lich or Amber plasm for sustain imo. I like amber best, because of the Stam Regen and also because it's tough to work offensive windows around lich procs, but lich allows me to run trifood and tripots instead of witch mother's.

ChefZero

Iskiab wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

I'm just wondering why Amber Plasm is barely mentioned in builds.. Is it because it's a dungeon set?

It’s because all magblade healing is tied to how much damage you do. Amber plasm looks good as a sustain set where you get stamina too, but your damage and self healing will suffer. I much prefer bright throat and cloak spam so I don’t have to use as much stamina.

The cost of magNB abilities has been increased too, to the point where you need as much mag regen as you can get.

If you’re a magblade I’d try healing. NB healers are pretty good.

No this is wrong respectively outdated. After multiples nerfs to the siphoning tree our best self heal is dark cloak now. And if we don't cloak around stamregen becomes more and more important.

I'm currently working on a build that uses new synergies.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=116210

Setup for bigger fights. For smaller fights I would run restro backbar.

Qbiken

It's sad that magblade is in such a poor state while stamblade is overperforming and is so severely ovetuned (I consider medium armor stamblade cheese to be honest) it's not even funny.

Lucky28

Iskiab wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

I'm just wondering why Amber Plasm is barely mentioned in builds.. Is it because it's a dungeon set?

It’s because all magblade healing is tied to how much damage you do. Amber plasm looks good as a sustain set where you get stamina too, but your damage and self healing will suffer. I much prefer bright throat and cloak spam so I don’t have to use as much stamina.

The cost of magNB abilities has been increased too, to the point where you need as much mag regen as you can get.

If you’re a magblade I’d try healing. NB healers are pretty good.

that's the way it used to be, but as magblade is now Strife doesn't heal or do enough damage, refreshing path can no longer apply minor pressure to your opponent and then the healing ward problem... nah, it's just not worth playing like that anymore the class pretty much lost it's identity in that respect.

I almost gave up on my NB, luckily i stuck with it for a while longer and put together a build that has some really good damage without having to be shackled to proc sets. still tho, it involves very few NB skills which sucks but, any port in a *** storm.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler can you please read this thread dude. Magblade needs serious help.

Datthaw

Lucky28 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

I'm just wondering why Amber Plasm is barely mentioned in builds.. Is it because it's a dungeon set?

It’s because all magblade healing is tied to how much damage you do. Amber plasm looks good as a sustain set where you get stamina too, but your damage and self healing will suffer. I much prefer bright throat and cloak spam so I don’t have to use as much stamina.

The cost of magNB abilities has been increased too, to the point where you need as much mag regen as you can get.

If you’re a magblade I’d try healing. NB healers are pretty good.

that's the way it used to be, but as magblade is now Strife doesn't heal or do enough damage, refreshing path can no longer apply minor pressure to your opponent and then the healing ward problem... nah, it's just not worth playing like that anymore the class pretty much lost it's identity in that respect.

I almost gave up on my NB, luckily i stuck with it for a while longer and put together a build that has some really good damage without having to be shackled to proc sets. still tho, it involves very few NB skills which sucks but, any port in a *** storm.

this is what kills me, I get too much tunnel vision and too stubbon on my old playstyles.

technohic

They really should make the morphs of strife dedicated 1 way or the other each. 1 damage how it was just without the heal, the other a HOT without the damage.

Lucky28

technohic wrote: »

They really should make the morphs of strife dedicated 1 way or the other each. 1 damage how it was just without the heal, the other a HOT without the damage.

That would fix literally nothing.the thing that makes magblade a fun class is healing while doing damage, the fast paced combat. that would do nothing to help the class and we'd still have *** self heals..... do you just hate magblade or something?.

technohic

Lucky28 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

They really should make the morphs of strife dedicated 1 way or the other each. 1 damage how it was just without the heal, the other a HOT without the damage.

That would fix literally nothing.the thing that makes magblade a fun class is healing while doing damage, the fast paced combat. that would do nothing to help the class and we'd still have *** self heals..... do you just hate magblade or something?.

Yes I hate magblades. Thats why I want the skills to be good for something rather than nothing.

Lucky28

technohic wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

They really should make the morphs of strife dedicated 1 way or the other each. 1 damage how it was just without the heal, the other a HOT without the damage.

That would fix literally nothing.the thing that makes magblade a fun class is healing while doing damage, the fast paced combat. that would do nothing to help the class and we'd still have *** self heals..... do you just hate magblade or something?.

Yes I hate magblades. Thats why I want the skills to be good for something rather than nothing.

I'm just straightening that up, cause that idea was not great. the skill still need to be unique the changes you just suggested would harm class identity even further.

mav1234

technohic wrote: »

They really should make the morphs of strife dedicated 1 way or the other each. 1 damage how it was just without the heal, the other a HOT without the damage.

I would prefer that to the current situation, although I think a better solution is to have the hot be a fixed amount (e.g. 35 / 50% of tooltip) and have it always apply on cast for that amount.

technohic

mav1234 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

They really should make the morphs of strife dedicated 1 way or the other each. 1 damage how it was just without the heal, the other a HOT without the damage.

I would prefer that to the current situation, although I think a better solution is to have the hot be a fixed amount (e.g. 35 / 50% of tooltip) and have it always apply on cast for that amount.

Yep. I'd agree with this. A year ago, it was a nice heal to just have as a side to damage and it was more for cheaper. Its been gutted so much was why I suggested it. I would definitely prefer something better.

kaithuzar

@Datthaw
Change swift for sure, & drop vamp, I know you “seem slow”, but a nb is never running around crouched, I use the psijic skill that gives small movement speed + inc crit dmg; not the one with the long cast but I use the short duration insta-cast.

Hit that, then bar swap & hit cloak on front bar & concealed on front.
Or you can hit that skill then cloak then bar swap to your concealed front; either way it gives similar to what you would have if you were vamp & sneaking.

The inc dmg taken from being vamp is not worth when you consider 60%+ in cyro are stam toons & 95% of those are running db

Also magdk or ppl using prismatic; you mitigate all that dmg!

If you’re just chilling use witch mothers, if you wanna fight the best & be competitive then throw on gold food; citrus fillet.

Bam_Bam

Kewpie wrote: »

Does anybody tried Magblade in 5 heavy armor pieces?

I love it.

SpiderCultist

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Kewpie wrote: »

Does anybody tried Magblade in 5 heavy armor pieces?

I love it.

that has to be necropotence + 1 piece IG + 1 piece domihaus + 5 from a crafted set

my guess is shacklebreaker + max magicka and life food

hit me

Knootewoot

Kewpie wrote: »

Does anybody tried Magblade in 5 heavy armor pieces?

I had 5 heavy impenetrable fortified brass, medium and light monster helmet which give more spell and physical protection and major somethings (I forgot name)

I had 38k spell and 33k physical protection, ironclad 20% (56 points), 28k health and I still died in one shot from stealth from a stamblade (might be 3 animation cancelled attack, but I went down in 1 second)

Guess I'm going back to cloak

Iskiab

That’s odd, I almost never die to stamblades as a NB healer using heavy fortified. I think I’ve died twice ever from getting ganked, and both those times I had respawned and used retreating manoeuvre to get back to the group after dying in the BG - and the stamblades were really good.

Break free - dodge roll - shadowy disguise, pbaoe fear if you can’t shake them and cloak again.

I only play non-CP.

I wouldn’t try heavy fortified though as a magblade. You need the pen. You could try light fortified, but I found you need really good sustain so a sustain set to shadowy disguise all the time and a damage set or you can’t kill anyone.

moosegod

One thing magNB can do right now is play support, that's about it. Pretty good burst heal potential.

Knootewoot

Iskiab wrote: »

That’s odd, I almost never die to stamblades as a NB healer using heavy fortified. I think I’ve died twice ever from getting ganked, and both those times I had respawned and used retreating manoeuvre to get back to the group after dying in the BG - and the stamblades were really good.

Break free - dodge roll - shadowy disguise, pbaoe fear if you can’t shake them and cloak again.

I only play non-CP.

I wouldn’t try heavy fortified though as a magblade. You need the pen. You could try light fortified, but I found you need really good sustain so a sustain set to shadowy disguise all the time and a damage set or you can’t kill anyone.

I tried light impenetrable fortified brass. I died just as quick as wearing full divine Julianos.

kaithuzar

Knootewoot wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

That’s odd, I almost never die to stamblades as a NB healer using heavy fortified. I think I’ve died twice ever from getting ganked, and both those times I had respawned and used retreating manoeuvre to get back to the group after dying in the BG - and the stamblades were really good.

Break free - dodge roll - shadowy disguise, pbaoe fear if you can’t shake them and cloak again.

I only play non-CP.

I wouldn’t try heavy fortified though as a magblade. You need the pen. You could try light fortified, but I found you need really good sustain so a sustain set to shadowy disguise all the time and a damage set or you can’t kill anyone.

I tried light impenetrable fortified brass. I died just as quick as wearing full divine Julianos.

I normally use 1 pirate & 1 chudan ~= 6k resist

You’re using 5 fortified brass ~= 8k resist

IMO the trade off for pieces of armor to resist is better with the 2 piece.
If you’re running around with an extra 2k resist more than me, & we both use cloak, something tells me there may be a bit of l2p in there...

What heal are you running & what is your stam pool & mag regen at?

Iskiab

Knootewoot wrote: »

I tried light impenetrable fortified brass. I died just as quick as wearing full divine Julianos.

Really? That shouldn’t be unless the person had a ton of penetration.

Before I gave up on magblade in pvp I went Asylum weapon, iceheart monster l, 5 bright throat with back bar 5 lich. I basicly gave up trying to mitigate damage and instead hit cloak every time it looked like someone was about to attack. Spam crushing, can’t be reflected and hits 3x so 3x the chance to proc iceheart.

Knootewoot

kaithuzar wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

That’s odd, I almost never die to stamblades as a NB healer using heavy fortified. I think I’ve died twice ever from getting ganked, and both those times I had respawned and used retreating manoeuvre to get back to the group after dying in the BG - and the stamblades were really good.

Break free - dodge roll - shadowy disguise, pbaoe fear if you can’t shake them and cloak again.

I only play non-CP.

I wouldn’t try heavy fortified though as a magblade. You need the pen. You could try light fortified, but I found you need really good sustain so a sustain set to shadowy disguise all the time and a damage set or you can’t kill anyone.

I tried light impenetrable fortified brass. I died just as quick as wearing full divine Julianos.

I normally use 1 pirate & 1 chudan ~= 6k resist

You’re using 5 fortified brass ~= 8k resist

IMO the trade off for pieces of armor to resist is better with the 2 piece.
If you’re running around with an extra 2k resist more than me, & we both use cloak, something tells me there may be a bit of l2p in there...

What heal are you running & what is your stam pool & mag regen at?

No, I try running without cloak. If I use cloak I have no issues.

If I just walk around in HA with lots of resists, and I get one-shotted from stealth by a stamblade.... how is that a l2p issue?
There is no counterplay. Yeah, I can hold block constantly when walking around, but that won't work on horse though.

Oh well, back to the battlefield today.

kaithuzar

@Knootewoot ,
So the issue is understanding what the meta is, isn’t, why something works, or isn’t viable.

In my opinion running without cloak isn’t viable currently.

We’re not built (with passives) to be tanky, nor are we built to be the best healers (even though we may have some ok ones & that may be the playstyle which performs best at current.

We need the defensiveness that comes along with cloak. The ability to almost spam the skill & have players miss attacks, the ability to suppress dots, the ability to get out & reset the fight (while overpowered in general, is necessity for such a weak class).

No matter how many times we “reset” a fight, we risk dying either due to multiple players or due to a general lack of survivability, or plainly that other classes are stronger.

Saying “I don’t use cloak”, at this point in the game, to me is the equivalent of saying “I went into Cyrodiil w/o armor on & don’t know why I died”.

Knootewoot

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Knootewoot ,
So the issue is understanding what the meta is, isn’t, why something works, or isn’t viable.

In my opinion running without cloak isn’t viable currently.

We’re not built (with passives) to be tanky, nor are we built to be the best healers (even though we may have some ok ones & that may be the playstyle which performs best at current.

We need the defensiveness that comes along with cloak. The ability to almost spam the skill & have players miss attacks, the ability to suppress dots, the ability to get out & reset the fight (while overpowered in general, is necessity for such a weak class).

No matter how many times we “reset” a fight, we risk dying either due to multiple players or due to a general lack of survivability, or plainly that other classes are stronger.

Saying “I don’t use cloak”, at this point in the game, to me is the equivalent of saying “I went into Cyrodiil w/o armor on & don’t know why I died”.

I agree fully though. Yet cloak is the subject of many nerf posts. I just wanted to prepare for the worst. But it's back on my bar in PvP. I will see what happens with it. As long as it is still my only means of protection i will use it.

Thanks for opening my eyes

Datthaw

Knootewoot wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Knootewoot ,
So the issue is understanding what the meta is, isn’t, why something works, or isn’t viable.

In my opinion running without cloak isn’t viable currently.

We’re not built (with passives) to be tanky, nor are we built to be the best healers (even though we may have some ok ones & that may be the playstyle which performs best at current.

We need the defensiveness that comes along with cloak. The ability to almost spam the skill & have players miss attacks, the ability to suppress dots, the ability to get out & reset the fight (while overpowered in general, is necessity for such a weak class).

No matter how many times we “reset” a fight, we risk dying either due to multiple players or due to a general lack of survivability, or plainly that other classes are stronger.

Saying “I don’t use cloak”, at this point in the game, to me is the equivalent of saying “I went into Cyrodiil w/o armor on & don’t know why I died”.

I agree fully though. Yet cloak is the subject of many nerf posts. I just wanted to prepare for the worst. But it's back on my bar in PvP. I will see what happens with it. As long as it is still my only means of protection i will use it.

Thanks for opening my eyes

It's because people dot inderstand that cloak it's self is not over powered. What is over powered is pairing cloak with the ability to dodge roll every 2-3seconds and having snare immunity. It's the combo that's over tuned. People who don't play magnb will never understand this.