ZOS! What happens to MagNB?

SpiderCultist

their main problem apart from not having any burst is their healing

templars, wardens, sorcerers and even DKs have better healings than us

a few patches ago, you could bring someone down with constant pressure, after Murkmire if someone spots you and you don't have a shade ready to teleport fast you're basically done

Minno

Kewpie wrote: »

Does anybody tried Magblade in 5 heavy armor pieces?

Fought against one or two. Really strong but no one has released this build yet lol

mav1234

Minno wrote: »

Kewpie wrote: »

Does anybody tried Magblade in 5 heavy armor pieces?

Fought against one or two. Really strong but no one has released this build yet lol

now you've got me curious, haha. What was their playstyle like? I'm curious to try heavy on my magblade.

Kewpie

Lloydmp wrote: »

I’m having a great time on MagNB in BG’s.

5L/1H/1M
Torugs destro - front bar (Oblivion enchant)
Lich resto - back bar (WD enchant)
2 willpower jewellery
Skoria monster set.

Just pick your battles, cloak and change direction. Always keep moving and always have a shade up near by.

still not understand why you picking 2 different set staves ? When you can use fron bar Destro lich and back bar resto lich, and have 5 set bonuses from 2 sets always active...

Kewpie

Minno wrote: »

Kewpie wrote: »

Does anybody tried Magblade in 5 heavy armor pieces?

Fought against one or two. Really strong but no one has released this build yet lol

Do you use DD heavy set or with defensive bonuses? Just want to know what to farm, will be rattlecage good or I'd better find more defensive set for heavy?

Minno

mav1234 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Kewpie wrote: »

Does anybody tried Magblade in 5 heavy armor pieces?

Fought against one or two. Really strong but no one has released this build yet lol

now you've got me curious, haha. What was their playstyle like? I'm curious to try heavy on my magblade.

Heavy armor brawler.

Stigant

Kewpie wrote: »

Lloydmp wrote: »

I’m having a great time on MagNB in BG’s.

5L/1H/1M
Torugs destro - front bar (Oblivion enchant)
Lich resto - back bar (WD enchant)
2 willpower jewellery
Skoria monster set.

Just pick your battles, cloak and change direction. Always keep moving and always have a shade up near by.

still not understand why you picking 2 different set staves ? When you can use fron bar Destro lich and back bar resto lich, and have 5 set bonuses from 2 sets always active...

Because this way he has his frontbar offensive = Torug's, backbar utility = lich (you really only need to have it on one bar) and on top of that he gets 2pc set bonus from willpower at all times, which is significant max magicka boost. All the while he can run monster set.
It's basically one of new ways of runing 5/5/2 setup from times when 2h weapons only counted as one set piece instead of two.

Kewpie

Stigant wrote: »

Kewpie wrote: »

Lloydmp wrote: »

I’m having a great time on MagNB in BG’s.

5L/1H/1M
Torugs destro - front bar (Oblivion enchant)
Lich resto - back bar (WD enchant)
2 willpower jewellery
Skoria monster set.

Just pick your battles, cloak and change direction. Always keep moving and always have a shade up near by.

still not understand why you picking 2 different set staves ? When you can use fron bar Destro lich and back bar resto lich, and have 5 set bonuses from 2 sets always active...

Because this way he has his frontbar offensive = Torug's, backbar utility = lich (you really only need to have it on one bar) and on top of that he gets 2pc set bonus from willpower at all times, which is significant max magicka boost. All the while he can run monster set.
It's basically one of new ways of runing 5/5/2 setup from times when 2h weapons only counted as one set piece instead of two.

But some sets not like Lich. For example overwhelming surge + spinner, and you must have always 5pieces of spinner to have magica penetr, aswell as swapping every 6 secs for proc surge is not a good way. I think its not the most powerful builds using 5/5/2/2, it depends on 5 set bonuses that you using.

Iskiab

Are 5/5/2/2 builds a thing? I’ve always tried to simplify things in pvp rotation/gear wise and focus more on positioning and reading the flow of battle. Does going 5/5/2/2 complicate things, or is the work all in the setup and things take care of themselves while playing?

Rikumaru

From my experience from the just before / start of murkmire in no CP mag nb was actually pretty damn good solo open world, it feels terrible now though mainly due to bleeds and perma snares / roots especially from magicka wardens. This is with heavy armor. Likewise in BGs.

Metemsycosis

brandonv516 wrote: »

hesobad wrote: »

I agree 100%. on my magblade I'm kinda forced into running Mighty Chudan or 5 light fortified brass or stack enough mag recovery to stay in cloak / shade teleport all the time. I don't take my magblade in BGs or Cyrodill anymore, its just not good enough when you compare it to other classes. My magblade is only used to Solo Imperial City bosses now. Really sad

Mighty Chudan is redundant on Magblade. You should use enough Shadow skills to keep the uptime on Major Ward/Resolve near 100%.

Depends, imo.

sometimes I dont run fear because I have reach.

I don't have path because I get expedition elsewhere. Better healing sources.

Not every NB uses cloak/shade. Are they necessary if you're in a group?

Destro has its own spammable damage dealers. Without cloak is concealed weapon as valuable as crushing shock? And so on.

Having those defensive buffs requires you to be spamming skills for that "100%" uptime but chudan actually has a 100% uptime, in practice. You save some resources using that set. Seems significant from where i am sitting.

And now it helps with shields.

Conversely people who blindside you or gank you don't want you to have your defensive buffs, and for good reason.

raistin87

You are doing it wrong

For no CP:

Master Inferno with infused flame or lightning enchant frontbar
5x Torugs
2x Skoria
5x Lich Resto with infused weapon dmg or oblivion enchant backbar

5/1/1, prismatic glyphs and triune traits
weapon enchants and food/drink according to your preferences for dmg/sustain

front bar: clench, cripple, bow, flex, inner light, soul harvest
back bar: cloak, healing ward, shade, siphoning strikes, concelaed weapon, resto ult

technohic

SpiderCultist wrote: »

their main problem apart from not having any burst is their healing

templars, wardens, sorcerers and even DKs have better healings than us

a few patches ago, you could bring someone down with constant pressure, after Murkmire if someone spots you and you don't have a shade ready to teleport fast you're basically done

This is what I don't like about it and why I tried running a 7th legion, pelinals to run Vigor and FM which was something I always used even back about a year ago when magblade was in a decent spot. Just took it back stamblade because why not just boost and use my weapon damage at that point? Some people seem to be using the other morph of cloak for the heal to make up for this, but I then get into "Why am I playing a NB and not a sorc?" I suppose you only have to single bar that heal at least.

Iskiab

raistin87 wrote: »

You are doing it wrong

For no CP:

Master Inferno with infused flame or lightning enchant frontbar
5x Torugs
2x Skoria
5x Lich Resto with infused weapon dmg or oblivion enchant backbar

5/1/1, prismatic glyphs and triune traits
weapon enchants and food/drink according to your preferences for dmg/sustain

front bar: clench, cripple, bow, flex, inner light, soul harvest
back bar: cloak, healing ward, shade, siphoning strikes, concelaed weapon, resto ult

What do you do against reflections? The resto ultimate is also kinda weak, you'd be a lot better off with the siphoning healing ultimate. What's bow btw, the ability on your primary bar?

OnlyOnThursday

I have been PVPing heavily on a MagNB for the last few months(previously PVP mained a mag sorc).

At first I would have agreed with you, but after playing my gankblade for awhile, and trying out different approaches, different play styles, I have found them to still be eminently viable in PVP.

You can't play a MagNB like a Mag Sorc, if you PVP in that way, you're right, they will underperform.

Sap essence gives major sorcery
So do detect pots

Shackle + Spinners still routinely puts me at the top of BG leaderboards, and last night I wrecked people from every class in IC on my MagNB.

DK reflects are a pain in the ass, you're right, at least ONE of the long range skills in the class should be non reflectable.

Force pulse isn't reflectable.
Hit a player with elemental weapon while their shield is down, to proc a status effect and buff force pulse
Cloak, and tap force pulse for a guaranteed crit.

Play your magnb like a gankblade and he'll surely be fun again

ChefZero

Iskiab wrote: »

raistin87 wrote: »

You are doing it wrong

For no CP:

Master Inferno with infused flame or lightning enchant frontbar
5x Torugs
2x Skoria
5x Lich Resto with infused weapon dmg or oblivion enchant backbar

5/1/1, prismatic glyphs and triune traits
weapon enchants and food/drink according to your preferences for dmg/sustain

front bar: clench, cripple, bow, flex, inner light, soul harvest
back bar: cloak, healing ward, shade, siphoning strikes, concelaed weapon, resto ult

What do you do against reflections? The resto ultimate is also kinda weak, you'd be a lot better off with the siphoning healing ultimate. What's bow btw, the ability on your primary bar?

Bow = merciless resolve

Sry but I disagree about restro ult. Why do you think it's weak?

Datthaw

OnlyOnThursday wrote: »

I have been PVPing heavily on a MagNB for the last few months(previously PVP mained a mag sorc).

At first I would have agreed with you, but after playing my gankblade for awhile, and trying out different approaches, different play styles, I have found them to still be eminently viable in PVP.

You can't play a MagNB like a Mag Sorc, if you PVP in that way, you're right, they will underperform.

Sap essence gives major sorcery
So do detect pots

Shackle + Spinners still routinely puts me at the top of BG leaderboards, and last night I wrecked people from every class in IC on my MagNB.

DK reflects are a pain in the ass, you're right, at least ONE of the long range skills in the class should be non reflectable.

Force pulse isn't reflectable.
Hit a player with elemental weapon while their shield is down, to proc a status effect and buff force pulse
Cloak, and tap force pulse for a guaranteed crit.

Play your magnb like a gankblade and he'll surely be fun again

This is the problem though. Gankblade is the only viable option anymore. Magnb had alot of diversity and alot of flexibility and now it's been reduced to cloak spam crap class that running anyway in cloak is your only defense.

OnlyOnThursday

Personally, I don't run a resto bar at all, I back bar swallow soul to heal myself in between cloaks, cloak, swallow soul, cloak. It crits every time, and heals me, continues to do so while I recloak.

It's not as good as a static heal, but you get a lot of extra dmg options w/ double destro.

Soul siphon from cloak is a great way to take out an entire team. Soul siphon, sap essence, blockade, destructive clench works better than most.

Sorc's dont have ANY way to ult blast someone the way that MagNBs do, and while yeah we're tied to light armor, that cloak is amazing, and on a mag NB you can run it eternally.

OnlyOnThursday

Datthaw wrote: »

This is the problem though. Gankblade is the only viable option anymore. Magnb had alot of diversity and alot of flexibility and now it's been reduced to cloak spam crap class that running anyway in cloak is your only defense.

You don't have to run as a gankblade, I only meant that playing that toon gave me some insight in how to better use the tools in my nightblade's arsenal.

I favor a head to head play style, so I get what you mean, but that doesn't mean you should ignore one of your most powerful defensive tools. Even if you just use it to proc crits and misses.

Lucky28

OnlyOnThursday wrote: »

I have been PVPing heavily on a MagNB for the last few months(previously PVP mained a mag sorc).

At first I would have agreed with you, but after playing my gankblade for awhile, and trying out different approaches, different play styles, I have found them to still be eminently viable in PVP.

You can't play a MagNB like a Mag Sorc, if you PVP in that way, you're right, they will underperform.

Sap essence gives major sorcery
So do detect pots

Shackle + Spinners still routinely puts me at the top of BG leaderboards, and last night I wrecked people from every class in IC on my MagNB.

DK reflects are a pain in the ass, you're right, at least ONE of the long range skills in the class should be non reflectable.

Force pulse isn't reflectable.
Hit a player with elemental weapon while their shield is down, to proc a status effect and buff force pulse
Cloak, and tap force pulse for a guaranteed crit.

Play your magnb like a gankblade and he'll surely be fun again

I mean you can still play Magblade like a brawler, but you have to drop most of your class abilities. swallow soul doesn't have the damage or healing anymore and refreshing doesn't either. the build i put together recently can both gank and brawl like magblade used to be able to do only it uses mostly guild abilities as offense. it's pretty good, damage is high but heals are lacking.

Datthaw

raistin87 wrote: »

You are doing it wrong

For no CP:

Master Inferno with infused flame or lightning enchant frontbar
5x Torugs
2x Skoria
5x Lich Resto with infused weapon dmg or oblivion enchant backbar

5/1/1, prismatic glyphs and triune traits
weapon enchants and food/drink according to your preferences for dmg/sustain

front bar: clench, cripple, bow, flex, inner light, soul harvest
back bar: cloak, healing ward, shade, siphoning strikes, concelaed weapon, resto ult

I dont lkke torugs builds in general, thet underperform imo. That build will already have trouble with 2/5 of the classes. Good luck landing those flame reach on dks and wardens. Temp will just block cast and purge off your dots. StamNB is just rolling every one of those flamereach. Sorc mebe of you catch them shields down.

Plus you have no heals outside of resto ult and siphon. That's not nearly enugh to deal with any type of pressure. Def not bleed builds. That build has to operate as a gank build. At that point you're better off with something like Calurions to get the upfront burst and 1shot combo people.

Datthaw

OnlyOnThursday wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

This is the problem though. Gankblade is the only viable option anymore. Magnb had alot of diversity and alot of flexibility and now it's been reduced to cloak spam crap class that running anyway in cloak is your only defense.

You don't have to run as a gankblade, I only meant that playing that toon gave me some insight in how to better use the tools in my nightblade's arsenal.

I favor a head to head play style, so I get what you mean, but that doesn't mean you should ignore one of your most powerful defensive tools. Even if you just use it to proc crits and misses.

Cloak is the only defense now was my point. Before in heavy builds, and even some light, you could hot up and still have the damage to fight and kill people. Now with shield nerf which, screw sorc, that hurt magnb the most. Now to have a viable light armor shield or enough hots to survive you either kill your sustain or kill your damage. There is not way around the fact that the only viable defense this patch is clock abuse. That that's sad because zos constantly talks about "class diversity" while destroying an entier class's diversity.

OnlyOnThursday

Hard to argue with this ^ I can throw heavy on my sorc and rock and roll all day long, can't do that on my NB

Iskiab

ChefZero wrote: »

Bow = merciless resolve

Sry but I disagree about restro ult. Why do you think it's weak?

Well, I usually play a healer and have tested them both out. NBs have the best pure healing ultimate with soul siphon. It's basicly a groupwide full heal... unless your stats are really low and everyone has major defile on them. Plus, the siphoning tree has better passives then the restoration tree.

raistin87

Iskiab wrote: »

raistin87 wrote: »

You are doing it wrong

For no CP:

Master Inferno with infused flame or lightning enchant frontbar
5x Torugs
2x Skoria
5x Lich Resto with infused weapon dmg or oblivion enchant backbar

5/1/1, prismatic glyphs and triune traits
weapon enchants and food/drink according to your preferences for dmg/sustain

front bar: clench, cripple, bow, flex, inner light, soul harvest
back bar: cloak, healing ward, shade, siphoning strikes, concelaed weapon, resto ult

What do you do against reflections? The resto ultimate is also kinda weak, you'd be a lot better off with the siphoning healing ultimate. What's bow btw, the ability on your primary bar?

Ad reflections: Oblivion dmg enchant on backbar + concelead

Iskiab

I'll try it out. Has anyone tried a werewolf build as a magblade or NB healer?

I thought it might be fun and would definitely be a troll build, but fun nonetheless. From my understanding werewolves damage mainly comes from light attacks, so back bar werewolf and use your high magicka pool for the really strong self heal. Change from using witchmother's to tri stat food.

Some people get a lot of pleasure from running down nightblades. If they're chasing you down switch to your back bar and werewolf, you'll likely be unkillable and tank them until they run away or reinforcements come.

Datthaw

Datthaw wrote: »

OnlyOnThursday wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

This is the problem though. Gankblade is the only viable option anymore. Magnb had alot of diversity and alot of flexibility and now it's been reduced to cloak spam crap class that running anyway in cloak is your only defense.

You don't have to run as a gankblade, I only meant that playing that toon gave me some insight in how to better use the tools in my nightblade's arsenal.

I favor a head to head play style, so I get what you mean, but that doesn't mean you should ignore one of your most powerful defensive tools. Even if you just use it to proc crits and misses.

Cloak is the only defense now was my point. Before in heavy builds, and even some light, you could hot up and still have the damage to fight and kill people. Now with shield nerf which, screw sorc, that hurt magnb the most. Now to have a viable light armor shield or enough hots to survive you either kill your sustain or kill your damage. There is not way around the fact that the only viable defense this patch is clock abuse. That that's sad because zos constantly talks about "class diversity" while destroying an entier class's diversity.

I will even go one further you can build a heavy build, I have, that performs well. But no snare removal leaves us vulnerable in cyro. My heavy build works very very well for group bgs. But it was lol worthy in cyro game play.

wnights

+1
Impossible to win ain a 1v1 setting against another pvp build. DKs ignore all damage

Iskiab

wnights wrote: »

+1
Impossible to win ain a 1v1 setting against another pvp build. DKs ignore all damage

Ignore all projectiles yes.

Bazeric

Iskiab wrote: »

wnights wrote: »

+1
Impossible to win ain a 1v1 setting against another pvp build. DKs ignore all damage

Ignore all projectiles yes.

And then mitigate so much of what ever damage you are able to hit them with it's basically no damage. You won't want to go melee range since they'll stam drain you, and burn you faster.


A past mNB thoughts:
The last pass of nerfs really killed DD PVP mNBs in a away that wasn't tied to stamblades (for the first time in a long time).
Removing the small (but useful) dot from Refreshing Path, removing Minor Vitality from Swallow Soul (and the ever increasing cost), plus the (probably targeted) removal of the up front heal on (not-so)Healing Ward put a damper on the only tools able to keep mNB fighting outside of cloak spam, especially HA flavors. My HA build from before these nerfs was barely viable, but now can do nothing to recover from any kind of stam pool pressures. It never had enough damage, but before the nerfs I could win fights on sustain. When in LA I use to struggle deciding which skills I wanted to have on my bars, and would often rotate them depending on my mood, now I've abandoned my highest ranked PVP toon. It was a class capable of creative/diverse builds (despite most playing some kind of gank blade) but now seems forced into one of two specific styles, Unaware PUG resource bombs, or single set (Caluurions) gank. The Zerg/Snare (and perhaps stam) meta is stronger than ever and the PVP populations so low that we can no longer compete against our far more efficient brother stamblades on the skirts of battlefields, and offer no competition in group damage compared to Wardens and Spin-to-Wins, and certainly can't muster anything worthy of a modern zerg diver. Dwindling PVP population means lack of targets and diversity, which may also be a factor in mNB's decline. So long as our PVE counterparts stand above the others, I assume DD PVP mNB will remain in exile.

Another factor is that there are hardly any (if any at all) heavy armors sets that synergize with the magicka playstyle required these days. Looking at stam builds, 4k+ weapon damage, 30k+ stam, 2.3k stam recovery are easily achieved and often surpassed, all while sustaining the best form of mitigation in damage evasion such as dodge roll, and block. There are plenty of HA/MA armor sets that synergize well with being in regular combat. They don't even require damaging procs. Which is sad since it was the Stamina Proc sets that brought the nerfs and forced them to seek other styles of play, and now magicka players require them to compete *cough* Valkyn *cough* Zaan *cough* Calurrion's *cough* Grothdarr... ahem, excuse me. LA has potential to have strong damage through spell penetration, but it become too glassy to achieve the damage potential in combat. High penetration used to be a desirable trait for mNB because it meant that when a swallow soul hit, we'd receive a decent heal. Now that SS is gutted, stacking Spell Damage is perhaps a better choice to increase what ever self healing we have left. This is where there's a big issue, since there are very few HA sets that synergize well with the need to stack Spell Damage, especially while being in combat.

TL:DR
The effective tools to maintain mNB were gutted. There is a lack of heavy armor sets to synergize the modern magicka playstyle required considering the Zerg/Snare/Stam Meta.

Oh and of course LAG, for it touches every thing in every way.