Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Minyassa

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

• A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Is there a PvE application for that at all? Or will we be wasting half a racial passive if we only play PvE with a wood elf?

Tasear

Khydan wrote: »

Can someone please translate this for me? Who got nerfed and who got buffed? How is my boy Breton doing?

Balance

Savos_Saren

zyk wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

Pretty damn good changes, bud. People haven't realized yet how Dunmer is, perhaps, the most versatile race out there.

This would be wonderful if that's why players chose Dunmer and if the game actually rewarded versatility.

Dunmer is completely gimped compared to Altmer for most caster builds. It's not even debtable. *None* of the players affected negatively by this care about weapon damage at all. No intelligent build would have leveraged both.

@zyk
Next week we'll hop into PTS and check out if you can force a Dunmer into a disgustingly OP hybrid build. I'm considering quite a few options now. Even some point back to our original heavy armor tanky builds. (which I haven't run heavy in years)

Alpheu5

I'd like to point out and emphasize just how far Argonians are getting rolled back into obsoletion.

Thieves Guild changes:

Shadows of the Hist changes:

Morrowind changes:

Compared to the 3-patch-long overhaul, Argonians:

• have what amounts to the pre-TG 6% health bonus (at 16,000 base HP, 6% brings the max to 16,960, whereas 9% brings it to 17,440)
• have what amounts to stage 1 of Quick to Mend pre-SotH (4% healing done at stage 3 vs. 3% healing done at stage 1)
• will receive less of their max stat back from Resourceful compared to pre-Morrowind if their max stat was above 30,000 instead of 38,500 (12% of 38,500 is 4,620 || 12% of 30,000 is 3,600)

The year-long slog to make Argonians a viable choice outside of RP purposes is getting thrown out the window. We're pretty much back to where we were during the Imperial City launch.

And of course, I nearly forgot the complete removal of Poison resistances.

Faulgor

As far as max stats go ...

Altmer: 2000 M
Argonian: 1000 M, 1000 H
Bosmer: 2000 S
Breton: 2000 M
Dunmer: 600 H, 1250 M, 1250 S
Imperial: 2000 H, 2000 S
Khajiit: 750 H, 750 M, 750 S
Nord: 1000 H, 1500 S
Orc: 500 H, 500 S <----!?
Redguard: 2000 S

Orcs are such an extreme outlier in total stat bonuses, I don't see how any of their other bonuses justify this. The next lowest stat bonuses are the ones with 2000 (Altmer, Argonian, Bosmer, Breton, Redguard), then 2250 (Khajiit), 2500 (Nord), 3100 (Dunmer) and 4000 (Imperial).

Can we get these at least increased to 1000 H/S?

Cryptical

Excellent communication.

You told us the problem, explained why it is a problem, and shared the direction you want to go to make it not a problem. Then you outlined in detail the specific changes to happen and shared the specific impetus for each.

You gave us players respect by treating us like participating partners in creating the game experience. Though many are immediately focused on the content and have not noticed the tone at all, I do recognize that this post has a gamer-to-gamer tone and I thank you for it.

NinchiTV

I feel like argonians need to lose at least 1k more off their pot usage and put them more in line with the 2k max resource the other races have. I like the changes though, my imperial and high elf will be happy.

metabLast3r

Interesting changes overall. I’m hoping with all the rage filled posts, there will be supplemental testing done with their toons during the PTS to see how the changes ‘feel’. I, myself, have two accounts with 25 toons total. I will be testing, I assure you. A good example of not ‘feeling’ a specific stat, would be like the current 6% damage reduce nord passive. Test it out folks before reaching a conclusion. I am certainly not taking anything listed at face value. Bring some good feedback to the table please.

MartiniDaniels

Faint_One wrote: »

If you want to push Dummer to be a balanced choice between mag and stam，make them both viable but not cut higher part to lower is a better way
And also like the differences between redguard and orc，high elf earn more damage passives，which have 258mag damage and also 2000max magicka(Redguard are similar as Breton，but orc only have 500max stam)

It's ok that they want to create race for hybrid builds. But instead of those flat values they should introduce unique passive, similar to pelinal - i.e your Weapon and Spell crit chance, penetration and damage both become the highest of the two values. Then it will be viable for hybrids. Hybrid will still s**k on max resource but by picking best morphs, weapons and sets from both worlds, you'll probably be able to do some dps on that hybrid. Those 1250+1250 and 256+256 are a joke.

sneakymitchell

regime211 wrote: »

Age Of the Nords,Redguards,Orcs!

The age for barbarians!
Lot of negative over having weapon and spell damage. You can use shields more effectively and heals. Also use damage from all sources. But hey let’s talk about flat value. It’s great on paper cause you don’t need to stack everything in one you can combine it. But if people still wish to stack in one stat go ahead it won’t be too much effective.

themaddaedra

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I find these changes good in general. At least for magicka characters.

Dunmer is not bis for both pvp and pve anymore. Until now Dunmer was bis even for magsorc. Imo Dunmer is now a better choice for pvp as max hp, burning status immunity and max stam mean a lot in there. Altmer is better for endgame groups with no sustain issues. Breton is very seductive for casual raiding in terms of helping sustain.

People will QQ because their bis changed. But i as a magicka mainer like these changes overall.

Let me translate your post - i have magicka pve chars and they are altmers, healers are bretons. I'm glad that my sustain is buffed and my counterpart dunmer is now purely inferior in PVE and moved to some original hybrid niche in PVP. Argonian healers were nerfed too. Still they need to increase max magicka for altmer and breton to 3000 to match dunmers 1250+1250+600, in general changes are good.

Good try. Tho if you bothered checking my forum signature you'd see i only have one Altmer, it's not my main, i have zero Bretons and i have 2 Dunmers one of them being my main. Still good try tho, tells a bit about your own.

Edit: I actually have 4 Dunmer chars but because two of them are basically crafting alts they are not in my signature.

max_only

I don’t like it. Bosmer don’t need to detect stealthed units, that is even less used in the game. give us back our radius reduction.

Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!)

So enemies can’t be bothered to sneak yet Bosmer can detect sneaking better. You’re own explanation invalidates your own logic.

ApostateHobo

Man this just looks so...poopy

amir412

starkerealm wrote: »

Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.

Buffing ? it literally got nerfed beside AR

Thats another kill for build diversty, lets say redgurad - There is no reason to stack max stam anymore as any build that using max stam will get heavily nerf by this. Everyone now will be weapon damage monkeys.
GREAT ZOS U DID IT AGAIN.

sneakymitchell

Khydan wrote: »

Can someone please translate this for me? Who got nerfed and who got buffed? How is my boy Breton doing?

Looks good for Breton boy. You got substain.
Everyone keeps forgetting that the races got *damage* besides % off whatever.
Complain about the stat value being flat instead of %. Well it’s needed you can stack in one thing only and still get more benefits.
During the PTS it will be figuring out how much health or stam or magicka you need for your character?

labambao

So I need to donate 210€ to change my chars races.
Maybe you like a good company after SO MAJOR CHANGES just make race change token FREE in crown store for a week?

MattT1988

That ulti-regen has my Nord tank smiling.

MLGProPlayer

mb10 wrote: »

So Bretons are basically better magic users than High Elves... right lol

They're not?

Altmer:

- 2000 max magicka
- 192 magicka recovery
- 258 spell damage

Breton:

- 2000 max magicka
- 100 magicka recovery
- 7% cost reduction

They're effectively trading 258 spell damage for 7% cost reduction.

JobooAGS

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

So Bretons are basically better magic users than High Elves... right lol

They're not?

Altmer:

- 2000 max magicka
- 192 magicka recovery
- 258 spell damage

Breton:

- 2000 max magicka
- 7% cost reduction

Bretons also get 100 mag regen too and have resists

Germakochi

One race change token per account is just a cry for money grab. You know too well that most of the end game players have 8+ characters that they play. You should give the option to race change for every character the first time we log in with it. We don't need the token. I will be very disappointed if this decision s doesn't get revised.

Blackpine

Wow. Argonians really have it bad. Not only their stat buff was only temporary and therefore purely situational they also lose their poison resistance and healing received.

D0PAMINE

code65536 wrote: »

I can see competitive tanks going for score race-changing to Nord for that ultgen...

That stood out to me as well. I never expected it.

metabLast3r

Just a reminder, CP is getting reworked per announcement from the reveal after show. Don’t get too worked up. Out of 25 I’m only changing maybe three, but I think outside the box.

ShadowHvo

Since my main is a Dunmer Assassin, I'm very happy to see the Dunmer no longer focuses so much on Magicka over Stamina, since the Race have always had an affinity for both.

The increase to weapon damage and overall flat values (Aswell as resistence to burning!) pleases me greatly, and its a very welcomed change in my eyes.

The only thing that I fear is that Redguard still will reign absolute supreme thanks to Adrenaline Rush, though I suppose we'll see once the PTS is out.

Also....

Since immunities are now being given to these status effects, wouldn't it be awfully fitting to grant the following?
- Vampirism: Resistance to Poisoned & Diseased
- Lycanthrophy: Resistance to Diseased

Those would also greatly help the flavor of the curses, especially since they're currently missing entirely from these vicious creatures of the night.

sneakymitchell

Sarousse wrote: »

Most of my chars are nords because of the HP recovery and you removed it.

Bad news

Same here but I guess it’s not that bad at least more ulti for us nords especially the DK ones.

MaxJrFTW

High Elf - Good changes all over the place. I'm finding it difficult to say anything negative about them.

Argonian - Again, good changes. I still don't understand why they want to make Argonians the healer class, lorewise they are not healers.

Wood Elf - Pretty good stuff. I can see Wood Elves becoming a lot more popular in PvP, especially if that 20% speed increase stacks with the major expedition from the bow. A bit OP even?

Breton - Much needed buff to the cost reduction racial. I will be changing my magplar main from Argonian to Breton.

Dark Elf - 3% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Health by 600. This is not a good change, makes no sense whatsoever, and 600 health is an insignificant amount to justify losing 3% magicka.

Imperial - New go to race for pvp, and tanking?

Khajiit - I feel like they're trying to make them a "trick of all trades" race, but lorewise they are not. Argonians would be better suited for this.

Nord - Are these nerfs? Look like it to me, and it honestly doesn't make any sense.

Orc - Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500. That's an unnecessary nerf. I'm on board with the other 2 though.

Redguard - WUT? Redguard sustain was so good that if you were not playing a redguard as a stamina class, you were simply doing it wrong. And their solution to this was to make their sustain even better...WTH!

aaronwilliams017b14_ESO

The high elf change from recovery to needing to use a class ability is a terrible idea, 575 mag/stamina restore only every 6 sec depending on higher resource is completely useless campared to skill cost. And why give back stamina option when all other passives are magicka based makes no sense. Leave the recovery on high elf since Breton got to keep resistance with added magicka recovery and increased cost reduction to all abilities. This would create a more balanced option of either sustain/damage or sustain/tankier cost reduction.

Sascha

My precious Magi-Kitties

JeibuKul

As a recently returning player just getting characters up and going again. Most of these changes I find to be kind of questionable. The max health thing especially, just what the percentages were compared to what stats they get now, seems a bit off, +9% = 1k, but +12% = 2k?

Also stop being mean to Argonians.

Also definitely need more race changes. I would be more likely to DELETE a character and remake them a different race than pay to have the race changed, after these changes made them less competitive.

MartiniDaniels

themaddaedra wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I find these changes good in general. At least for magicka characters.

Dunmer is not bis for both pvp and pve anymore. Until now Dunmer was bis even for magsorc. Imo Dunmer is now a better choice for pvp as max hp, burning status immunity and max stam mean a lot in there. Altmer is better for endgame groups with no sustain issues. Breton is very seductive for casual raiding in terms of helping sustain.

People will QQ because their bis changed. But i as a magicka mainer like these changes overall.

Let me translate your post - i have magicka pve chars and they are altmers, healers are bretons. I'm glad that my sustain is buffed and my counterpart dunmer is now purely inferior in PVE and moved to some original hybrid niche in PVP. Argonian healers were nerfed too. Still they need to increase max magicka for altmer and breton to 3000 to match dunmers 1250+1250+600, in general changes are good.

Good try. Tho if you bothered checking my forum signature you'd see i only have one Altmer, it's not my main, i have zero Bretons and i have 2 Dunmers one of them being my main. Still good try tho, tells a bit about your own.

Edit: I actually have 4 Dunmer chars but because two of them are basically crafting alts they are not in my signature.

There will be 4 dunmer crafting alts now, congrats! And if you play dunmer you understand that replacement of 9% with 1250 is a rip-off. Maybe change from 7% fire damage to 256 is good, testing required. By altmer got it too together with sustain passive. And now from stamina side compare dunmer to redguard. Basically, only altmer, breton and redguard changes are good, all others races are either nerfed or rebalanced, but becoming inferior to those 3.
Honestly saying all this changes are.. it's not question of which race is better now.. this changes just lead to further pingeonholing and direct connection role - race. Imperial tanks, altmer magdps, redguard stamdps, breton healer, all others -> to PVP or to crafting alts.