starkerealm wrote: »Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.
High Elf - Good changes all over the place. I'm finding it difficult to say anything negative about them.
Argonian - Again, good changes. I still don't understand why they want to make Argonians the healer class, lorewise they are not healers.
Wood Elf - Pretty good stuff. I can see Wood Elves becoming a lot more popular in PvP, especially if that 20% speed increase stacks with the major expedition from the bow. A bit OP even?
Breton - Much needed buff to the cost reduction racial. I will be changing my magplar main from Argonian to Breton.
Dark Elf - 3% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Health by 600. This is not a good change, makes no sense whatsoever, and 600 health is an insignificant amount to justify losing 3% magicka.
Imperial - New go to race for pvp, and tanking?
Khajiit - I feel like they're trying to make them a "trick of all trades" race, but lorewise they are not. Argonians would be better suited for this.
Nord - Are these nerfs? Look like it to me, and it honestly doesn't make any sense.
Orc - Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500. That's an unnecessary nerf. I'm on board with the other 2 though.
Redguard - WUT? Redguard sustain was so good that if you were not playing a redguard as a stamina class, you were simply doing it wrong. And their solution to this was to make their sustain even better...WTH!
Mojomonkeyman wrote: »The cash grab is so obvious, it's painful. This is not a Beta. People were chosing race to achieve certain playstyles and stat combinations in a game they paid for initially and (most of us) monthly. Changing those core values to keep the game fresh and make it more balanced is very appreciated - but there is a moral obligation to give paying customers the chance to reconsider their choice without drawbacks (especially financially). Yes, even for a company dedicated to make profit.
Temporary free race changes for every character > lvl 50 is the absolute minimum loyal & supporting customers can expect. I'm subbed for many years now - that sub will be dropped permanently the moment those race changes go live without ZOS accepting their responsibility to give their customers above-mentioned chance to reconsider their race choice for every single developed character.
I'm all for the changes themselves, but I will not support such greedy & shady business behaviour.
High Elf - Good changes all over the place. I'm finding it difficult to say anything negative about them.
Argonian - Again, good changes. I still don't understand why they want to make Argonians the healer class, lorewise they are not healers.
Wood Elf - Pretty good stuff. I can see Wood Elves becoming a lot more popular in PvP, especially if that 20% speed increase stacks with the major expedition from the bow. A bit OP even?
Breton - Much needed buff to the cost reduction racial. I will be changing my magplar main from Argonian to Breton.
Dark Elf - 3% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Health by 600. This is not a good change, makes no sense whatsoever, and 600 health is an insignificant amount to justify losing 3% magicka.
Imperial - New go to race for pvp, and tanking?
Khajiit - I feel like they're trying to make them a "trick of all trades" race, but lorewise they are not. Argonians would be better suited for this.
Nord - Are these nerfs? Look like it to me, and it honestly doesn't make any sense.
Orc - Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500. That's an unnecessary nerf. I'm on board with the other 2 though.
Redguard - WUT? Redguard sustain was so good that if you were not playing a redguard as a stamina class, you were simply doing it wrong. And their solution to this was to make their sustain even better...WTH!
Redguard lost 9% regen and also max stam
Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%. I'd have to run some tests to have more accurate numbers but on paper this doesn't look like a nerf. It's 100% a buff for aoe builds.
Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000. Translates into a minor loss of stamina, but every class got the same treatment so it's not a nerf or a buff, it's simply a balance change.
Adrenaline Rush: When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. Considerable buff to a racial that was already overpowered.
IronWooshu wrote: »ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.
You are directly costing your player base money and time.
The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.
Honestly you, the min/maxers that tell is what is BiS take the fun out of end game so I feel no sorrow for any of the min/maxers on these changes who have the shell out money.
It is the theory crafters that do the math, then test it out, that determines what works extremely well. The game is about math and especially at end game. So those who are into the end game the most welcome their information as a good place to start with testing their own builds.
These change may not have the impact one might think.
josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Wood Elf speed boost is too powerful. Especially since it will stack with Major Expedition. Instead of 20% untyped/stacking, it should just be Major Expedition for 3 seconds, or Minor Expedition if you want a stacking bonus.
We saw how powerful stacking speed was in the Swift meta, 20% is better than three swift now. A better bonus than three jewelry traits with a roll? Way too powerful! Way out of line with all the other bonuses.
Everything else looks okay, with maybe a couple minor tweaks.
Mojomonkeyman wrote: »The cash grab is so obvious, it's painful. This is not a Beta. People were chosing race to achieve certain playstyles and stat combinations in a game they paid for initially and (most of us) monthly. Changing those core values to keep the game fresh and make it more balanced is very appreciated - but there is a moral obligation to give paying customers the chance to reconsider their choice without drawbacks (especially financially). Yes, even for a company dedicated to make profit.
Temporary free race changes for every character > lvl 50 is the absolute minimum loyal & supporting customers can expect. I'm subbed for many years now - that sub will be dropped permanently the moment those race changes go live without ZOS accepting their responsibility to give their customers above-mentioned chance to reconsider their race choice for every single developed character.
I'm all for the changes themselves, but I will not support such greedy & shady business behaviour.
The Orc race is one of honor and code. Well known for their aggressive combat style, we wanted to showcase this by helping them keep up the fight with their new recovery when utilizing any weapon. Their previous bonus to Melee Damage was too niche, and we wanted Orcs to feel powerful with less restrictions. Since we’re giving them more damage and aggression, we also wanted to dial back on some of their defensive power.
DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »i knew those announcements from the stream were missing the bad parts, frankly race changes should be free for a limited time. 1 race change simply is not going to be enough.
IronWooshu wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.
You are directly costing your player base money and time.
The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.
Honestly you, the min/maxers that tell is what is BiS take the fun out of end game so I feel no sorrow for any of the min/maxers on these changes who have the shell out money.
It is the theory crafters that do the math, then test it out, that determines what works extremely well. The game is about math and especially at end game. So those who are into the end game the most welcome their information as a good place to start with testing their own builds.
These change may not have the impact one might think.
The way I see it is that min/maxers will still have BiS options but the next best option in DPS drop-off won't be that far off that it will make that big of a difference in the end game just by them removing the % passives.
The only people who will notice is the leaderboard runners and they make up .01% of the playerbase. The rest of us do veteran trials for the loot, skins, titles, achievements and not the leaderboards. Now PUG trial groups and guild trial groups that aren't running leaderboards will take Orcs, Khajiit, Nords as DPS options rather than JUST Redguards because this games playerbase has a hive mind like personality.
IronWooshu wrote: »Honestly you, the min/maxers that tell is what is BiS take the fun out of end game so I feel no sorrow for any of the min/maxers on these changes who have the shell out money.
I present to you the salty casual archetype that motivates ZOS changes. They won't play the game according to its rules, so ZOS will change the rules to support them.
silvereyes wrote: »DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »i knew those announcements from the stream were missing the bad parts, frankly race changes should be free for a limited time. 1 race change simply is not going to be enough.
This sounds really good in theory, but it's not possible with the current race change tokens. There is no system in place for tokens to expire, and they can't just make the tokens free on the store, or people will hoard them.
Of course, they could always make a new kind of token that expires, but then how do you differentiate in the UI between expiring tokens and non-expiring ones? How do you display to the user how long they have to use the expiring ones? There is a non-trivial amount of work to make it happen. Frankly, I don't think they have enough time, since PTS is in just a few days, and they usually spend most of the PTS cycles fixing bugs and tweaking the combat changes they've made.
The only viable option really is to utilize the existing race change tokens. Obviously, they don't want to give out more than they need to, lest they hurt crown store sales.
The problem is that they seem to be trying to come up with a global flat number of tokens to give away to everyone, rather than a nuanced approach as some others have suggested (e.g. 1 per max level toon, etc). The *average* might very well come out to only about 1 token needed per account, in aggregate, but that's a small consolation for the most dedicated min/max players who want to change all of their toons to the new meta.
I doubt very much that anything will change, though. I don't recall them giving any free race change tokens when they performed their last mass racial passives update in Shadows of the Hist. They don't want to set precedent of offering free tokens every time they make a racial balance change that disrupts the meta.
I'm actually surprised they are offering any this time. They know that anyone with 8+ competitive toons has sunk so much time into the game that they will buy the tokens no matter what, despite complaining about the cost. Re-rolling and grinding out mount upgrades, crafting research, learned recipes/motifs, Mages/Fighters Guild, Undaunted, Psijic Order, Thieves Guild, PvP rank, etc is just too much for anyone to contemplate.
About the best we can hope for is probably a deeply discounted sale on race change tokens, and maybe even deeper discounts as an ESO+ limited time exclusive.