Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Shinshadow

Imperials were mediocre at best in tanking, healing, and stam / mag DPS. but to have them be a purchased race for just mediocrity is useless. I was hoping for some type of magic or stam sustain, but didn't hold my breath. Khajiit getting sustain buffs on top of crit buffs will clearly make them pretty OP as well.

Alaztor91

I like the Breton changes. While it won't beat Altmer in damage, the cost reduction increase looks really nice for PvP or Healing.

Savos_Saren

For those complaining about Dunmer:

Valkyn, Pelinal's Aptitude, Innate Axiom on you mDK.

I'll be testing this next week.

themaddaedra

I find these changes good in general. At least for magicka characters.

Dunmer is not bis for both pvp and pve anymore. Until now Dunmer was bis even for magsorc. Imo Dunmer is now a better choice for pvp as max hp, burning status immunity and max stam mean a lot in there. Altmer is better for endgame groups with no sustain issues. Breton is very seductive for casual raiding in terms of helping sustain.

People will QQ because their bis changed. But i as a magicka mainer like these changes overall.

MajorDomeShot

Tbh I really don’t think these changes are very good. You’re really nerfing a lot of classes. And the base of 2,000 increase to stats is a huge loss to those who get 10% at 40k stam or mag. Also some of the changes don’t make sense. Such as argonians; 3% mag is now 1000 but 9% max health is now also 1000? But a lot of 10% stat increases of other races are now 2,000. Doesn’t seem to be a good trade out. Or a steady base variable. Maybe used 2000 as the 10% base to focus things around that so 9% increases would be 1800, 5% increases would be 1000 and 3% increases would be 600.
Also
Nerfed Redguards stam recovery of 9% and only gave them a cost reduction to “weapon abilities” not balanced at all. But you want to keep things balanced with orcs as you stated and not focus them on “Melee damage” and let them get an all physical damage setup.
Regaurds should of just gotten a flat rate recovery stat in that place.
So many things that will be broken as well.
Imperials HEAL to every direct damage attack by 1750! That’s insane!
So much more to fix on this whole page that it’s not even funny or even remotely balanced.

Please take another swing at the rebalance bc this is not a rebalance. And people will need a lot more than 1 race change token.

JobooAGS

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

The only racial that matters for bosmer is being bis for cuteness

The passives look very good as well

What's good in there? redguards got exactly the same stamina and recovery, but on top of that 8% stamina cost decrease.
Bosmers will be bow-rolling rofling jokers now, nothing more.

With these regen modifiers for pve stambalde (7 med (.28) .15 nb passive .15 cp .1 relentless .2 potion) a bosmer's 258 regen becomes 485 regen. Redguard gets only 380 from adrenline rush while still having the same stam modifiers, having poison resists, and movement speed bonuses

In a pvp perspective, we will assume nb with vampire, 5 medium, and 13% from cp. This will give you the same numbers. You can also add stealth detection too and movement speed is more prominent

Seems like passive regen is better than active regen.

Wow, minus 4% to stamina and health for extra 8% to stamrecovery. And you forgot about new 8% cost reduce on redguard. Well, overall bosmer was slightly improved, but redguard was directly buffed. Ok redguard will lose some maxstamina but with such cost reduction and sustain they can spam spammables even more to compensate.

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm overall okay with it, but tanking Argonians can expect to lose 1.5-2k health. Hoping ZOS can meet us in the middle over that. 1000 is not a good compensation for losing 9% max health especially if we're losing healing received.

Read devs comment, in their opinion argonians were clearly overperforming so they quite severely nerfed them while buffing others

Aliyavana wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

no, 20 percent speed buff is amazing

You do realize that this is a weaker version of a passive that already exists in the Bow skill line -- which most Bosmer are probably already going to have due to their other passive? The +3m stealth detection bonus is a huge nothing since nearly 0.0% of PvE enemies use stealth. So, really, Bosmer completely lose a racial passive.

it will be useful if you do not run bow for mobility and its likely going to stack with other speed buffs since it seems to be a unique one, so ya it is useful

It won't help much if you are snared.. if this bonus also (or) removed all snares this will nice buff to overall survivability and unique one. Now it's just useful for niche pvp builds for 0.1% of players.

The 8% cost reduction is only for weapon skills.
What hp bonus?
Also bosmer and redguard in this situation have the same stam bonuses 2k stam.

% bonus to HP, stamina and magicka from undaunted passive, don't tell me you run 7 medium pieces.. and what means weapon skills? Reduced cost of hail, poison arrow, twin slashes, spin-to-win etc is nothing?

Pve yes 7 med. And as a bosmer you can run 5:1:1 too.
Pvp I run 0:5:2

Diminish

Inb4 the impending doom of high elf pet sorcs.

Shinshadow

heavier wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Imperial

• Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → No changes
• Tough: 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 2000.
• Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
• Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

Developer Comment

Stout and hardy by nature, the Imperial race is one of order in battle and culture. They stand strong and unified, regardless of what hardships face them. This is highlighted with their powerful bonuses to constitution, and ability to push back when under pressure.

p2w

Too bad there's nothing in there that's Pay to Win. Even the non paying classes got better changes than Imperial.

Moonsorrow

So.. my first thoughts. For pvp that is.

Negative feelings:

- Pretty much all my characters and the way i play and have built them got nerfed hard.

- Example: my Imperial tank with high hp instead of the 12%+ hp gets now a flat 2k, a BIG nerf. Sustain buff to tanking, but.. had no issues with it, so was just nerfed and not gained anything.

- Also i bet many who had hp regen builds at pvp will cry when reading these notes. HP regen helped solo/small scale players to atleast have some little chances to recover against zergs if could get to LoS and let regen get back to the fight possibly. Now, get Defiled and zerglings pew pew you to death with bow spam. This combined with the earlier Murkmire speed nerfs..

- My bosmers sustain gets nerfed hard also with the flat value. But i guess i can just roll dodge and escape fast. *sarcastic smile* (because sustaining being in actual fight went down)

To me these feels like Morrowind sustain nerfs all over again. Big game changer. I think all my characters feel weaker after this. In both pve and pvp. Some might feel differently, a build and playstyle thing i feel.

To me these changes did not increase freedom in choosing class/race combo, but limiting playstyle, race choice and builds even more than before.

Now these changes will empower (at pvp) the faction megablob players even more, sadly. One can think that as a positive thing, if is a player that enjoys being in those huge groups.

Positive thoughts (kind of)

- Everyone got nerfed, so we are all weaker, thus.. i am not nerfed, because everyone is.

- Reading the "Greetings!" and hearing it in head with Gilliams voice.

- These are my thoughts and for pvp, so some might be happy about these changes, so even i am disappointed myself, can be happy for them atleast.

- Some new builds doable with these changes.


Okay then, my plan gonna be to switch most of my characters into mule status to just be inventory space (not gonna race change them). Made them with specific playstyle and builds because of the passives they did benefit from, and now since those gonna change, they are obsolete sadly. A roll dodging Bosmer with less sustain than before and crit damage bonus from invisibility removed.. what would i do with that? So not gonna play with it. That simple. And no, not gonna change to khajiit.

Adapting to these will take a while mentally, but it will happen. Atleast saving gold and time when not have to gear up so many characters anymore. But its just a game, so while my comment might seem salty, i`ll be okay after some Morrowind sustain nerf trauma -type of mourning. This is just a game anyways, so not that serious on what kind of stats my characters have.. muh stats nuuu.

I hope many find these good changes though, since i believe these will stay even if there will be salt and tears from these i`d imagine.

Must get some popcorn before reading others posts too.

biggda76

rip dunmer vs altmer conflict

Faint_One

If you want to push Dummer to be a balanced choice between mag and stam，make them both viable but not cut higher part to lower is a better way
And also like the differences between redguard and orc，high elf earn more damage passives，which have 258mag damage and also 2000max magicka(Redguard are similar as Breton，but orc only have 500max stam)

Anhedonie

Nicely done. Now we at least will have balanced racials.

templesus

On first glance it is disappointing that Stamina doesn’t have a true High Elf equivalent...my only gripe.

Heimpai

Did they seriously just nerf my bosmer sustain? Well guess I’ll turn her into a bow spamming build

Inig0

ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.

You are directly costing your player base money and time.

The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

dogman wrote: »

gilliam is worse at balancing stuff than wrobel thats an accomplishment

I'm not sure he was the one that made the balance changes. Perhaps it was the people above him that did it?

Perhaps don't shoot the messenger?

Khivas_Carrick

If I were you, I'd make the Redguard's Martial Training reduce the cost of all Stamina Abilities instead of just Weapon ones if they're supposed to be master martial artists

Dark Elf is gonna be a freaking beast, no matter the class or build.

The rest are mostly actually kinda cool.

Imperial seems a bit watered down tho.

Mayrael

Hahahaha haha I'm laughing so hard. While era wanted nerf Argonians, but this is not how balance works lol, I was telling you how this will end:

Mayrael wrote: »

Pitiful whiners, you really think they will nerf Argonians leaving Altmer, Bretons or Redguards untouched? Facepalm... With a chair. The mighty nerf hammer is OTW and no one will be safe thanks to you.

Tommy_The_Gun

Thanks for posting it out. You have no idea what a relief it is too me (I expected the worst). Since the eso stream, share thinking of those upcomming racial changes were giving me a head ache. Now
i can finnaly calm down. Later I will post some thoughts on those changes.

Savos_Saren

@ZOS_Gilliam

Pretty damn good changes, bud. People haven't realized yet how Dunmer is, perhaps, the most versatile race out there. Argonians will still be great as healers or tanks. Khajiit will now cater to PVP, PVE, and (ironically) casual RPers. This, all the while, allows people to still min/max their characters to be higher DPS/Tank/Healer builds with Altmer, Breton, Redguard, Orc, Imperial, Bosmer, and Nord.

LightMaster7

So is this a big FU to redguard sorcerers? So now your saying any class that doesn't have a magic bonus has no business being a magic user or sorcerer class?

I thought the race change was supposed to bring about more diversity in choices for a race? But your saying completely the opposite.

And *** NO, I aint going to change my race just to fit your mold. I'd rather quit this game.

JobooAGS

LightMaster7 wrote: »

So is this a big FU to redguard sorcerers? So now your saying any class that doesn't have a magic bonus has no business being a magic user or sorcerer class?

I thought the race change was supposed to bring about more diversity in choices for a race? But your saying completely the opposite.

And *** NO, I aint going to change my race just to fit your mold. I'd rather quit this game.

There is the weapon cost reduction passive

Jadax

I posted this in the other thread, but chances are it'll be ignored.

This has got to be the worst ever racial revamp I've seen in a popular mmorpg. If you make such big changes then you as a dev need to compensate players for it. Giving us 1 racial change per account is a straight up slap on the face. Everyone knows you just want people to buy tokens for some broken *** that you should have fixed ages ago, not 5 years in. You're basically punishing users that have more than 1 character per account, so in other words the more active/'contributing to popularity of this game' user-base gets boned because you want the £££. This is a really *** move if it goes through like this.

Even a game like WoW, which is notorious for monetizing everything doesn't pull this kind of bs. When they make large changes that will affect the basic functioning of classes they provide a free redo per character.

Holycannoli

Orc's increase of 500 to max health and stamina is nothing. We are running around with tens of thousands of hit points and stamina. An extra 500 does nothing.

zyk

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

Pretty damn good changes, bud. People haven't realized yet how Dunmer is, perhaps, the most versatile race out there.

This would be wonderful if that's why players chose Dunmer and if the game actually rewarded versatility.

Dunmer is completely gimped compared to Altmer for most caster builds. It's not even debtable. *None* of the players affected negatively by this care about weapon damage at all. No intelligent build would have leveraged both.

MartiniDaniels

themaddaedra wrote: »

I find these changes good in general. At least for magicka characters.

Dunmer is not bis for both pvp and pve anymore. Until now Dunmer was bis even for magsorc. Imo Dunmer is now a better choice for pvp as max hp, burning status immunity and max stam mean a lot in there. Altmer is better for endgame groups with no sustain issues. Breton is very seductive for casual raiding in terms of helping sustain.

People will QQ because their bis changed. But i as a magicka mainer like these changes overall.

Let me translate your post - i have magicka pve chars and they are altmers, healers are bretons. I'm glad that my sustain is buffed and my counterpart dunmer is now purely inferior in PVE and moved to some original hybrid niche in PVP. Argonian healers were nerfed too. Still they need to increase max magicka for altmer and breton to 3000 to match dunmers 1250+1250+600, in general changes are good.

Tirps

INB4 khajiit turns out to be bis for mag dds in pve.

Tasear

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

For the people complaining about the changes, it was a long time coming. But I'm still baffled why they're buffing Redguard sustain over nerfing it. You're buffing the other stam races but making the top sustain one ever better?? It makes no sense.

Human perception is interesting concept.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

This is the first wave of notes guys, perhaps they'll change things. These are probably the most radical changes ZoS has done for anything since the great Morrowind sustain nerfs so I don't think this is final. They'll probably adjust values but knowing how they work, they most likely won't do further reworks or revisions of the big things though I could be wrong (and I hope I am).

Anyone else agree?

mb10

So Bretons are basically better magic users than High Elves... right lol

It’s a no from me these changes are absolutely awful.

Another question, high elf’s 10% max mag becomes 2000 magicka but wood elf’s 6% max Stam becomes 2000 Stam.
So by that logic wood elves are that great stamina wise that it’s comparable to how great high elves are magicka wise?


Ridiculous, the changes are bad and once again demonstrating that you’re all very bored at the office and come up with stupid crap. Maybe go part time because instead of sitting around and nerfing the whole game, just do something else productive with your time