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Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

  • josh.lackey_ESO
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    Wood Elf speed boost is too powerful. Especially since it will stack with Major Expedition. Instead of 20% untyped/stacking, it should just be Major Expedition for 3 seconds, or Minor Expedition if you want a stacking bonus.

    We saw how powerful stacking speed was in the Swift meta, 20% is better than three swift now. A better bonus than three jewelry traits with a roll? Way too powerful! Way out of line with all the other bonuses.

    Everything else looks okay, with maybe a couple minor tweaks.
    Edited by josh.lackey_ESO on January 17, 2019 7:27AM
  • JobooAGS
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    High Elf - Good changes all over the place. I'm finding it difficult to say anything negative about them.

    Argonian - Again, good changes. I still don't understand why they want to make Argonians the healer class, lorewise they are not healers.

    Wood Elf - Pretty good stuff. I can see Wood Elves becoming a lot more popular in PvP, especially if that 20% speed increase stacks with the major expedition from the bow. A bit OP even?

    Breton - Much needed buff to the cost reduction racial. I will be changing my magplar main from Argonian to Breton.

    Dark Elf - 3% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Health by 600. This is not a good change, makes no sense whatsoever, and 600 health is an insignificant amount to justify losing 3% magicka.

    Imperial - New go to race for pvp, and tanking?

    Khajiit - I feel like they're trying to make them a "trick of all trades" race, but lorewise they are not. Argonians would be better suited for this.

    Nord - Are these nerfs? Look like it to me, and it honestly doesn't make any sense.

    Orc - Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500. That's an unnecessary nerf. I'm on board with the other 2 though.

    Redguard - WUT? Redguard sustain was so good that if you were not playing a redguard as a stamina class, you were simply doing it wrong. And their solution to this was to make their sustain even better...WTH!

    Redguard lost 9% regen and also max stam
  •  Jules
    Jules
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    LLawlietW wrote: »
    Why was redguard buffed? how does that make sense when they are already considered the best race for stamina dps. and then the second best option khajiit gets nerfed. i just dont understand how that is supposed to make sense at all. now khajiit has more health recovery than stam... but yea lets buff adrenaline rush
    So you buff redguard? lul
    He means that redguard is buffed in comparison to other races. If we take plain maxstam build of course it's nerfed like all other.
    Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.
    For the people complaining about the changes, it was a long time coming. But I'm still baffled why they're buffing Redguard sustain over nerfing it. You're buffing the other stam races but making the top sustain one ever better?? It makes no sense.
    I don't have the slightest clue what they were thinking buffing Redguard and then giving Khajiit 75 recovery... Thanks. RIP my stamblade

    Don't know much about PVE stam dps, I will admit. But I will say that I read very different changes than you did. The following might be worth considering when saying "the BIS stamina dps just got better" when comparing Redguard vs. Orc vs. Khajiit.

    With these changes, orc now has access to damage that is not melee damage. It has pure weapon damage that will buff all stamina dps skills. In addition, orcs now also have added sustain they didn't have before. If you can sustain with that added passive in pve - wouldn't you rather the extra damage offered by orc vs the pure sustain of redguard? Would you not be just oversustaining at a certain point with the latter and sacrificing damage?

    Also worth considering: khajiit and again the recovery / max stat bonuses. May need to be adjusted to be more, but that's worth looking at and hashing out a more fair stat for these. Last time I checked, crit was king in PVE in terms of sheer DPS potential and that's a solid 8% spell and weapon crit, that can't just be blatantly ignored in comparison to adrenaline rush as a sustain passive.

    I personally love redguard much more than Orc and Khajiit, and I'm primarily a PVPer - so those are my biases all laid out for you. But I can honestly say I tried to look at this objectively, and when reviewing those passives, it seems to be that Redguard appears mostly the same to me as it is on live, if not slightly weaker just purely by comparison. The first passive seems niche in both pve and pvp, not all builds will run enough weapon skills to even justify this. It's a definite loss of regen compared to the 9% we have on live. Yes, adrenaline rush got buffed but it mostly was just to accommodate for the regen loss above, so it measures out. In the end, redguard will probably stay about the same or lose a slight amount of regen compared to live, depending on how many weapon skills you are slotting and how much use you are making out of the first passive.

    All in all,
    TL,DR:
    Redguard stays approximately the same
    Orc now has flat weapon damage + stats
    Khajiit now has flat crit + sustain/stats
    Which should mean: if sustain can be reached on either Orc or Khajiit with changes, they stand a much higher chance of being "BIS stam race" than Redguard.
    Edited by Jules on January 17, 2019 8:03AM
    JULES | PC NA | ADAMANT

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  • themaddaedra
    themaddaedra
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    I find these changes good in general. At least for magicka characters.

    Dunmer is not bis for both pvp and pve anymore. Until now Dunmer was bis even for magsorc. Imo Dunmer is now a better choice for pvp as max hp, burning status immunity and max stam mean a lot in there. Altmer is better for endgame groups with no sustain issues. Breton is very seductive for casual raiding in terms of helping sustain.

    People will QQ because their bis changed. But i as a magicka mainer like these changes overall.

    Let me translate your post - i have magicka pve chars and they are altmers, healers are bretons. I'm glad that my sustain is buffed and my counterpart dunmer is now purely inferior in PVE and moved to some original hybrid niche in PVP. Argonian healers were nerfed too. Still they need to increase max magicka for altmer and breton to 3000 to match dunmers 1250+1250+600, in general changes are good.

    Good try. Tho if you bothered checking my forum signature you'd see i only have one Altmer, it's not my main, i have zero Bretons and i have 2 Dunmers one of them being my main. Still good try tho, tells a bit about your own.

    Edit: I actually have 4 Dunmer chars but because two of them are basically crafting alts they are not in my signature.
    There will be 4 dunmer crafting alts now, congrats! And if you play dunmer you understand that replacement of 9% with 1250 is a rip-off. Maybe change from 7% fire damage to 256 is good, testing required. By altmer got it too together with sustain passive. And now from stamina side compare dunmer to redguard. Basically, only altmer, breton and redguard changes are good, all others races are either nerfed or rebalanced, but becoming inferior to those 3.
    Honestly saying all this changes are.. it's not question of which race is better now.. this changes just lead to further pingeonholing and direct connection role - race. Imperial tanks, altmer magdps, redguard stamdps, breton healer, all others -> to PVP or to crafting alts.

    Thanks for saying me what to do with my characters now. At it's current state Dunmer is stupid strong. So stupid that it's bis for pve, pvp, even for magsorc like wth?

    After these changes Dunmer still is the best choice for pvp. Max hp and stamina can sound useless to pve but in pvp people use 5 piece sets to have other resources too (see Shacklebreaker).

    I believe i made my point and won't be replying anymore to this.
    Mad'Plar | Breton Templar | Gooseslayer - Bro'm-Athra Destroyer -The Flawless Cucumber - The Unchained - Master Ankler - Immortal Caboomer - Tick Tock Charmander - Grim-Phone Heart
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    Mad'Sorc | Altmer Sorcerer | Dro'm-Athra Destroyer - Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason | Bringer of Lights
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    PC|EU
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Some races provided far more mathematical combat power than others.

    So you buff redguard? lul

    Redguard dmg got nerfed, regen was removed, but adrenline rush was buffed.
  • idk
    idk
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    Magicka Mastery: 3% Magicka Cost Reduction → Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%.

    The semantics in this one sentence is concerning. Cost reduction vs cost of our abilities could have different meanings.

    It is a huge buff is it is truly 7% magicka cost reduction.
  • IronWooshu
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    Inig0 wrote: »
    ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.

    You are directly costing your player base money and time.

    The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.

    Honestly you, the min/maxers that tell is what is BiS take the fun out of end game so I feel no sorrow for any of the min/maxers on these changes who have the shell out money.
  • Czekoludek
    Czekoludek
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    A lot better changes then the ones I expected, very nice :o
  •  Jules
    Jules
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    Some races provided far more mathematical combat power than others.

    So you buff redguard? lul

    Sigh, see above man.
    JULES | PC NA | ADAMANT

    IGN- @Juies || Youtube || Twitch
    EP - Juleanos . Jules . Family Jules . Julary . Juliet . Joy
    DC - Juri . Julsie . Jules . Jukes . Jojuji
    AD - Juice . Jubaited . Joules . Julmanji . Julogy . Jubroni . Ju Jitsu



    Rest in Peace G & Yi
    Viva La Aristocracy
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Looks pretty good. Not too psyched about Orc max Stam going way down though. Most stamina classes don’t need max Stam anymore but Stamplars do and this hurts those builds. It also pigeonholes us even further into using weapon abilities to make up for it in the small amount of return. There really isn’t anythign that says more offense and less defense. It’s more like an overall nerf. 500 health is ok but 500 stam is so low, something like 1250 stamina would be more of a middle ground as even 6% of 35k stamina is 2100 and that’s pretty average.
    Edited by Vapirko on January 17, 2019 7:22AM
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Inig0 wrote: »
    ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.

    You are directly costing your player base money and time.

    The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.

    Honestly you, the min/maxers that tell is what is BiS take the fun out of end game so I feel no sorrow for any of the min/maxers on these changes who have the shell out money.

    Min/maxing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your need for forced diversity and roleplaying.
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    I generally like most changes, really opens up a lot of potential fun builds on a lot of classes and creates legitimate Hybrid races (albeit Hybrid has other issues).
    0331
    0602
  • idk
    idk
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Inig0 wrote: »
    ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.

    You are directly costing your player base money and time.

    The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.

    Honestly you, the min/maxers that tell is what is BiS take the fun out of end game so I feel no sorrow for any of the min/maxers on these changes who have the shell out money.

    It is the theory crafters that do the math, then test it out, that determines what works extremely well. The game is about math and especially at end game. So those who are into the end game the most welcome their information as a good place to start with testing their own builds.

    These change may not have the impact one might think.
  • MaxJrFTW
    MaxJrFTW
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    High Elf - Good changes all over the place. I'm finding it difficult to say anything negative about them.

    Argonian - Again, good changes. I still don't understand why they want to make Argonians the healer class, lorewise they are not healers.

    Wood Elf - Pretty good stuff. I can see Wood Elves becoming a lot more popular in PvP, especially if that 20% speed increase stacks with the major expedition from the bow. A bit OP even?

    Breton - Much needed buff to the cost reduction racial. I will be changing my magplar main from Argonian to Breton.

    Dark Elf - 3% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Health by 600. This is not a good change, makes no sense whatsoever, and 600 health is an insignificant amount to justify losing 3% magicka.

    Imperial - New go to race for pvp, and tanking?

    Khajiit - I feel like they're trying to make them a "trick of all trades" race, but lorewise they are not. Argonians would be better suited for this.

    Nord - Are these nerfs? Look like it to me, and it honestly doesn't make any sense.

    Orc - Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500. That's an unnecessary nerf. I'm on board with the other 2 though.

    Redguard - WUT? Redguard sustain was so good that if you were not playing a redguard as a stamina class, you were simply doing it wrong. And their solution to this was to make their sustain even better...WTH!

    Redguard lost 9% regen and also max stam

    Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%. I'd have to run some tests to have more accurate numbers but on paper this doesn't look like a nerf. It's 100% a buff for aoe builds.

    Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000. Translates into a minor loss of stamina, but every class got the same treatment so it's not a nerf or a buff, it's simply a balance change.

    Adrenaline Rush: When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. Considerable buff to a racial that was already overpowered.

    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • The_Saint
    The_Saint
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    As a pve dd magblade i now have the choice between Altmer and Khajit. Thats...interesting
    Samuel Crow - Magicka Nachtklinge - PC-EU-DC -
    Saint_Crow Twitch / Youtube
    ESO Stream Team Member
    Noractis

    Buff NB
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Jules wrote: »
    Some races provided far more mathematical combat power than others.

    So you buff redguard? lul

    Sigh, see above man.

    He means that redguard is buffed in comparison to other races. If we take plain maxstam build of course it's nerfed like all other.
  • metabLast3r
    metabLast3r
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    Race passives were always minimal to me, with the understanding of min/maxers. On a redguard in most situations, I felt sustain was too good. Hence the name, I’ll be out there on a stam necro using a dunmer, see you all on the battlefield. Hope your race helps you.. *wink*
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