Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Shankapotomus

Seems fair. Looks to be solidifying hardcaps by lowering the stat "ceiling" across all races.

Only concern would be Wood Elve's speed increase stacking to effectively with other movement speed increases already in-game.

Thanks Gill!

Edaphon

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

I'm overall okay with it, but tanking Argonians can expect to lose 1.5-2k health. Hoping ZOS can meet us in the middle over that. 1000 is not a good compensation for losing 9% max health especially if we're losing healing received.

Aliyavana

starkerealm wrote: »

Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.

Edaphon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

no, 20 percent speed buff is amazing

Silver_Strider

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm overall okay with it, but tanking Argonians can expect to lose 1.5-2k health. Hoping ZOS can meet us in the middle over that. 1000 is not a good compensation for losing 9% max health especially if we're losing healing received.

We've been relegated to being Healbots only now, which sucks honestly. We lost poison immunity as well so that's going to sting a bit in PvP too. Not really thrilled about these changes honestly.

zyk

Basically, ZOS has made it less bad for casual pug raiders with sub-optimal builds.

Competitive PVE raids will still require optimal race selection.

PVP racial balance will worse or the same -- except different races will be OP.

ZOS should fine tune the current system. This new system is too disruptive.

heavier

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Imperial

• Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → No changes
• Tough: 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 2000.
• Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
• Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

Developer Comment

Stout and hardy by nature, the Imperial race is one of order in battle and culture. They stand strong and unified, regardless of what hardships face them. This is highlighted with their powerful bonuses to constitution, and ability to push back when under pressure.

p2w

Alpheu5

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm overall okay with it, but tanking Argonians can expect to lose 1.5-2k health. Hoping ZOS can meet us in the middle over that. 1000 is not a good compensation for losing 9% max health especially if we're losing healing received.

And it's a nerf no matter how low you go. You'd need a crippling 11k HP before 9% to a flat 1000 starts becoming a comparative value.

RaptorRodeoGod

My argonian is even worse for dps now. Yaaaaaaaaaay.

Matrix117

Cats OP for mag blade and stamblade / stamplar now, Nords ult gen will be nice on Stamina dk and warden, highelf and orc look nice too,
However why are woodelves seem so useless, that last passive is a bow passive lol? I mean, PvP WW it would be nice with poison immune sure but for pve it seems like a useless race.

imperial imo could still use some love, for pvp it's still great but for pve I feel it still is not too good.

and RIP magDK even more since that fire damage from dark elf they needed desperately and they are still way worse than a stam dps. ( they are melee after all)

Yamenstein

marius_buys wrote: »

It should be 1 race change token per character, period.

Wouldn't mind this. But they should make it an item that gets bound to that character or something. Otherwise everyone will just go create new toons to get free tokens.

heavier

Alpheu5 wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm overall okay with it, but tanking Argonians can expect to lose 1.5-2k health. Hoping ZOS can meet us in the middle over that. 1000 is not a good compensation for losing 9% max health especially if we're losing healing received.

And it's a nerf no matter how low you go. You'd need a crippling 11k HP before 9% to a flat 1000 starts becoming a comparative value.

meanwhile imperial gets their heal doubled or tripled by some estimations

DaGhostDS

Edaphon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

IKR, Sneak also been a racial to Bosmer since Morrowind.. so this is pretty bad both in term of gameplay and lore.

I guess i'll go Khajiit.. this is absurd.

P.s. They buffed Redguard.. LOL, the one race that needed a nerf to make them on the same level of the rest and you buff them.. GG ZOS..

FilteredRiddle

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We'll also be granting one free race change, per account.

This is complete and total crap.

I have 13 characters which I will likely need to change because of these awful 'improvements' that are being forced on me and my characters. I created these characters because - when I created them - their races were good for their purposes. There was no disclaimer that the game is in Beta, everything may change, etc, etc, etc. As far as I was aware, their stats were cemented and that was that. For that reason alone, every single player should be given one free race change, per level 50 character. Furthermore, as an aside, that ZOS is capitalizing on people's fear and put "Race Change Tokens" on sale at the moment it announced that, effectively, many characters would be hugely nerfed is very disappointing.

Regarding the changes in general...

Every. Single. Flat. Bonus. Needs. To. Be. Increased.

For example -

"Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000."

The average Stamina DPS has 32,000+ Stamina, with blue food. For RP reasons, I chose to run all of my Stamina characters as Imperials. While I realize there are multiple things contributing to that number, for ease, let's just subtract 10% (the current racial bonus) and we arrive at 28,800 Stamina. If you add the new racial bonus to that, it's 30,800 Stamina. That means I am outright losing 1,200 Stamina on one character. Don't get me started on my Breton Magicka characters with 40,000+ Magicka...

How does this expand my choices for races?! All you've done is increase Redguard's strength over Imperial, and made it so that Orc is now also comparatively stronger for Stamina DPS. All you've done is increase Altmer and Dunmer's strength over Breton for Magicka DPS.

This change isn't improving anything. It's re-arranging which races are best-in-slot, nerfing everyone's stats (and likely their DPS or healing/tanking capabilities), and simply changing things for the sake of changing them. Bad change is really, truly bad.

No offense ZOS, but I think my suggestion from December was 1000000000x better: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5660704/#Comment_5660704

Specifically -

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

The only Lore friendly change would be to implement something akin to Star Trek Online's, "Race-specific Personal traits" where, "Race-specific Personal traits are optionally selectable based on the player's race." In ESO terms it would look something like each race getting to select 5-6 Passive Abilities from a pool which is specifically tailored to their race.

For example:

Breton pool

MUST CHOOSE 1:
Increased experience gain in skill:
- Restoration Staff
- Destruction Staff
- Light Armor

DISTRIBUTE 30% BONUS BETWEEN:
- Max Magicka
- Magicka Recovery

MUST CHOOSE 3:
- Increases your Alliance Points gained by 1% (Available to all races)
- Increases your gold gained by 1% (Available to all races)
- Increases your crafting inspiration gained by 10% (Available to all races)
- Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes (Available to all races)
- Increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes (Available to all races)
- Upon using a potion, gain 12% of your maximum, health, magicka and stamina. (Available to all races)
- Increases spell resistance by X (Breton only)
- Increases damage with Cold, Fire or Shock effects by 4% (Altmer, Breton, Dunmer)
- Reduces the magicka cost of spells by 3% (Altmer, Breton, Dunmer)
- Increases healing done and received by 5% (Altmer, Argonian, Breton)

Redguard pool

MUST CHOOSE 1:
Increased experience gain in skill:
- One Hand and Shield
- Two Handed
- Dual Wield

DISTRIBUTE 30% BONUS BETWEEN:
- Max Stamina
- Stamina Recovery

MUST CHOOSE 3:
- Increases your Alliance Points gained by 1% (Available to all races)
- Increases your gold gained by 1% (Available to all races)
- Increases your crafting inspiration gained by 10% (Available to all races)
- Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes (Available to all races)
- Increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes (Available to all races)
- Upon using a potion, gain 12% of your maximum, health, magicka and stamina. (Available to all races)
- Restores X stamina when damaging an enemy with a melee attack, once every 3 seconds (Redguard only)
- Increases weapon critical chance by 2/5/8% (Bosmer, Imperial, Khajiit, Orc, Redguard)
- Increases damage done on melee weapon attacks by 4% (Bosmer, Imperial, Khajiit, Orc, Redguard)
- Reduces the stamina cost of skills by 3% (Bosmer, Imperial, Khajiit, Orc, Redguard)

Etc.

Effectively:
- Sneak Thief related skills: Khajiit + Bosmer
- Health or Resistance related skills: Argonian + Dunmer + Imperial + Nord + Orc + Redguard
- Stamina or Stamina Damage related skills: Bosmer + Imperial + Khajiit + Nord + Orc + Redguard
- Magicka or Magicka Damage related skills: Altmer + Breton + Dunmer
- Restoration related skills: Altmer + Argonian + Breton

All races would also have a pool of generic skills to choose from (e.g. the 1% AP gain), in addition to a single racial specific skill which confers a small bonus (e.g. Bow attacks returning Stamina & Bosmer, Melee attacks returning Stamina & Redguard, Spell Resistance & Breton, Fire Resistance & Dunmer, Poison/Disease Resistance & Argonian). The skills in their 'pool' would fit into 2 of the above 5 categories, per race, allowing at least two viable 'meta' roles, with the generic options allowing people to spread out beyond the meta if they so choose while still respecting lore.

I was so very, very excited for these changes. I thought that maybe, just maybe, I'd be able to play my Imperial Stamina characters and Breton Magicka characters in the HM Vet content I enjoy without people constantly reminding me that 'meta' was Redguard/Altmer/Dunmer/Argonian. All these changes do is make it so I'll be told that Redguard/Orc/Altmer/Dunmer are better than my choices. Continuing with the races I want to to play will be even harder as well, because surprise, they're being ever-so-slightly nerfed for the roles I've put them in. I am beyond disappointed.

Sy1ph5

I mean I buried my dark elf magsorc last patch ZoS you didn't have to dig him up and kick him in the nuts that was uncalled for.

heavier

+ proccing on ranged attacks ... all bowtards are about to by Imperial dlc and switch, beware

Tonturri

zyk wrote: »

Basically, ZOS has made it less bad for casual pug raiders with sub-optimal builds.

Competitive PVE raids will still require optimal race selection.

PVP racial balance will worse or the same -- except different races will be OP.

ZOS should fine tune the current system. This new system is too disruptive.

Raiders will require what is most optimal meta as long as there are numbers to number crunch to figure out what is most optimal. Nothing has changed there.

Same for PvP - this or that race, as long as there are numbers to crunch...*shrug*

Obviously there should - and likely will - be some fine tuning. But c'mon. People whine 'n complain that ZOS nerfs/buffs with a sledgehammer. Now they get this - nerfing/buffing not with a sledge hammer - and...just, goodness.

I'm curious as to further elaboration on your 'too disruptive' comment. To what? How?

heavier

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We'll also be granting one free race change, per account.

This is complete and total crap.

I have 13 characters which I will likely need to change because of these awful 'improvements' that are being forced on me and my characters. I created these characters because - when I created them - their races were good for their purposes. There was no disclaimer that the game is in Beta, everything may change, etc, etc, etc. As far as I was aware, their stats were cemented and that was that. For that reason alone, every single player should be given one free race change, per level 50 character. Furthermore, as an aside, that ZOS is capitalizing on people's fear and put "Race Change Tokens" on sale at the moment it announced that, effectively, many characters would be hugely nerfed is very disappointing.

Regarding the changes in general...

Every. Single. Flat. Bonus. Needs. To. Be. Increased.

For example -

"Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000."

The average Stamina DPS has 32,000+ Stamina, with blue food. For RP reasons, I chose to run all of my Stamina characters as Imperials. While I realize there are multiple things contributing to that number, for ease, let's just subtract 10% (the current racial bonus) and we arrive at 28,800 Stamina. If you add the new racial bonus to that, it's 30,800 Stamina. That means I am outright losing 1,200 Stamina on one character. Don't get me started on my Breton Magicka characters with 40,000+ Magicka...

How does this expand my choices for races?! All you've done is increase Redguard's strength over Imperial, and made it so that Orc is now also comparatively stronger for Stamina DPS. All you've done is increase Altmer and Dunmer's strength over Breton for Magicka DPS.

This change isn't improving anything. It's re-arranging which races are best-in-slot, nerfing everyone's stats (and likely their DPS or healing/tanking capabilities), and simply changing things for the sake of changing them. Bad change is really, truly bad.

No offense ZOS, but I think my suggestion from December was 1000000000x better: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5660704/#Comment_5660704

Specifically -

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

The only Lore friendly change would be to implement something akin to Star Trek Online's, "Race-specific Personal traits" where, "Race-specific Personal traits are optionally selectable based on the player's race." In ESO terms it would look something like each race getting to select 5-6 Passive Abilities from a pool which is specifically tailored to their race.

For example:

Breton pool

MUST CHOOSE 1:
Increased experience gain in skill:
- Restoration Staff
- Destruction Staff
- Light Armor

DISTRIBUTE 30% BONUS BETWEEN:
- Max Magicka
- Magicka Recovery

MUST CHOOSE 3:
- Increases your Alliance Points gained by 1% (Available to all races)
- Increases your gold gained by 1% (Available to all races)
- Increases your crafting inspiration gained by 10% (Available to all races)
- Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes (Available to all races)
- Increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes (Available to all races)
- Upon using a potion, gain 12% of your maximum, health, magicka and stamina. (Available to all races)
- Increases spell resistance by X (Breton only)
- Increases damage with Cold, Fire or Shock effects by 4% (Altmer, Breton, Dunmer)
- Reduces the magicka cost of spells by 3% (Altmer, Breton, Dunmer)
- Increases healing done and received by 5% (Altmer, Argonian, Breton)

Redguard pool

MUST CHOOSE 1:
Increased experience gain in skill:
- One Hand and Shield
- Two Handed
- Dual Wield

DISTRIBUTE 30% BONUS BETWEEN:
- Max Stamina
- Stamina Recovery

MUST CHOOSE 3:
- Increases your Alliance Points gained by 1% (Available to all races)
- Increases your gold gained by 1% (Available to all races)
- Increases your crafting inspiration gained by 10% (Available to all races)
- Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes (Available to all races)
- Increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes (Available to all races)
- Upon using a potion, gain 12% of your maximum, health, magicka and stamina. (Available to all races)
- Restores X stamina when damaging an enemy with a melee attack, once every 3 seconds (Redguard only)
- Increases weapon critical chance by 2/5/8% (Bosmer, Imperial, Khajiit, Orc, Redguard)
- Increases damage done on melee weapon attacks by 4% (Bosmer, Imperial, Khajiit, Orc, Redguard)
- Reduces the stamina cost of skills by 3% (Bosmer, Imperial, Khajiit, Orc, Redguard)

Etc.

Effectively:
- Sneak Thief related skills: Khajiit + Bosmer
- Health or Resistance related skills: Argonian + Dunmer + Imperial + Nord + Orc + Redguard
- Stamina or Stamina Damage related skills: Bosmer + Imperial + Khajiit + Nord + Orc + Redguard
- Magicka or Magicka Damage related skills: Altmer + Breton + Dunmer
- Restoration related skills: Altmer + Argonian + Breton

All races would also have a pool of generic skills to choose from (e.g. the 1% AP gain), in addition to a single racial specific skill which confers a small bonus (e.g. Bow attacks returning Stamina & Bosmer, Melee attacks returning Stamina & Redguard, Spell Resistance & Breton, Fire Resistance & Dunmer, Poison/Disease Resistance & Argonian). The skills in their 'pool' would fit into 2 of the above 5 categories, per race, allowing at least two viable 'meta' roles, with the generic options allowing people to spread out beyond the meta if they so choose while still respecting lore.

I was so very, very excited for these changes. I thought that maybe, just maybe, I'd be able to play my Imperial Stamina characters and Breton Magicka characters in the HM Vet content I enjoy without people constantly reminding me that 'meta' was Redguard/Altmer/Dunmer/Argonian. All these changes do is make it so I'll be told that Redguard/Orc/Altmer/Dunmer are better than my choices. Continuing with the races I want to to play will be even harder as well, because surprise, they're being ever-so-slightly nerfed for the roles I've put them in. I am beyond disappointed.

breh ur 64 stam imperials now have 15% proc on healing that also heals for more HP and can be done from range
calm yourself

ChunkyCat

Guess I’m sticking with Redguard :-/

Cundu_Ertur

Aliyavana wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

no, 20 percent speed buff is amazing

You do realize that this is a weaker version of a passive that already exists in the Bow skill line -- which most Bosmer are probably already going to have due to their other passive? The +3m stealth detection bonus is a huge nothing since nearly 0.0% of PvE enemies use stealth. So, really, Bosmer completely lose a racial passive.

Juhasow

I am fine with those changes as long there will be race change token for each character new and old on account. Otherwise it feels like a poor cash grab.

KingKobra

Matrix117 wrote: »

Cats OP for mag blade and stamblade / stamplar now, Nords ult gen will be nice on Stamina dk and warden, highelf and orc look nice too,
However why are woodelves seem so useless, that last passive is a bow passive lol? I mean, PvP WW it would be nice with poison immune sure but for pve it seems like a useless race.

imperial imo could still use some love, for pvp it's still great but for pve I feel it still is not too good.

and RIP magDK even more since that fire damage from dark elf they needed desperately and they are still way worse than a stam dps. ( they are melee after all)

I don't think cats are the best for stamblades lol. That goes to woodelf/ redguard and then khajiits come after.

Katahdin

Calling it now .

Nothing has changed on the stamina end

Redguard is still the only viable stam DPS option

Kajiit just got nerfed

Aliyavana

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

no, 20 percent speed buff is amazing

You do realize that this is a weaker version of a passive that already exists in the Bow skill line -- which most Bosmer are probably already going to have due to their other passive? The +3m stealth detection bonus is a huge nothing since nearly 0.0% of PvE enemies use stealth. So, really, Bosmer completely lose a racial passive.

it will be useful if you do not run bow for mobility and its likely going to stack with other speed buffs since it seems to be a unique one, so ya it is useful

IronWooshu

I love the changes, I will be changing my main to Nord since they are actually good now and I tank so I'm always taking damage for that ulti generation.

SanguineMyBrother

My Dunmer MagDK is weeping whyyyyyyy

Savos_Saren

@SkysOutThizeOut

Dark Elf
Increases Experience gain in Dual Wield Skill Line by 15%, reduces damage taken from Lava by 50% → No changes
Dynamic: 6% Max Stamina and Magicka → Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250.
Resist Flame: 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
Destructive Ancestry: 7% Flame damage and 2% Frost/Shock Damage → Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

Oh dear god... that Pelinal's build...

Juhasow

Katahdin wrote: »

Calling it now .

Nothing has changed on the stamina end

Redguard is still the only viable stam DPS option

Kajiit just got nerfed

Orc and dark elf will do more dmg redguard will have better sustain.

DaGhostDS

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

no, 20 percent speed buff is amazing

You do realize that this is a weaker version of a passive that already exists in the Bow skill line -- which most Bosmer are probably already going to have due to their other passive? The +3m stealth detection bonus is a huge nothing since nearly 0.0% of PvE enemies use stealth. So, really, Bosmer completely lose a racial passive.

Yeah pretty much, completely worthless only made for PvP.

John_Falstaff

So khajiits are left jack of all trades, masters of none. Thank you, ZOS. Thank you a lot; that's the most lousy balancing job so far.

As for redguards, then they got a buff:

At base 750 regen, they lost 9%, so loss of 67.5 regen.
Rending slashes present in any rotation, 2160 stamina. With 12-second rotation, gain of 28.8 regen.
New Adrenaline Rush - gain of 63.2 regen.

So, they got a small, but still a buff in sustain.