Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Khydan

Can someone please translate this for me? Who got nerfed and who got buffed? How is my boy Breton doing?

Nifty2g

@ZOS_Gilliam The Khajiit army is a lost cause and many believed you would make them rise above. Is the war really being lost?

Brutusmax1mus

Regarding the recovery portion based on set bonus rating. 2 seem out of line.

Adrenaline rush is a 1.5 conditional
High elf is at .74 conditional
Woodelf is 2 wow
Breton is .77 (that cost reduction is NIIICE)
Khajiit is .58 for mag and stam stat types and .77 health
Orcs .73 stam and heath conditional

MincVinyl

Bosmer's getting stealth detect seems like a completely useless passive, there is almost no instance where I think I run into stealthed players these days other than nightblades (which stealth detect doesn't matter). I would rather see more damage to stealthed enemies, or something that would actually be useful in combat. I know lore is important, but don't have it determine ingame buffs/usefulness of the race. Also why does the speed only last 3 seconds and not 4 like the bow hasty retreat passive, it would make more sense to have these overlap.

otherwise great to see that the game isn't just
stam build ---> orc
mag/tank/stam ---> argonian

side note i'm a pvp player, but i'm pretty sure stealth detect has no place in pve aswell.

dogman

This is so god damn disappointing, holy ***.

Some_Guy

I've been playing this game since it was sub, spent hundreds of dollars to help keep this game going (and get/keep my craft bag ), and now you want me to pay to change all 15 of my toons (yeah, I paid for those too, and they're all max level) because you want to change how everything works?!?
I'm all for rebalancing, keeping the game fresh and fair, but some of us have been loyal and PAYING into this game for years. I think we deserve more than a single race change tokens if you're going to push such a mass change. You want do a 1 only per max level character? Fine. You want to work some system that gives more tokens based on how long the player has been playing? Ok. You even want to verify how much that player has dumped into the game to see the $1,000+ I've ALREADY PAID YOU, and work something out based off that? Dangerous territory, but alright. You want to charge me to deal with the changes to the game that I've been paying into for 4+ years (subbed since day 1)? Not fine.
The changes are interesting, but not enough for me to spend another $300 to min/max all over again.

Lord_Eomer

LLawlietW wrote: »

Why was redguard buffed? how does that make sense when they are already considered the best race for stamina dps. and then the second best option khajiit gets nerfed. i just dont understand how that is supposed to make sense at all. now khajiit has more health recovery than stam... but yea lets buff adrenaline rush

Red Guard do not have weapon damage buff but Orc and Dark Elf have.

So its about build that you want to go far.

I believe changes makes much more sense and excellently done!

Minno

jlb1705 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

jlb1705 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.

Is it not balanced by this part though?:

Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%.

This line is definitely a nerf - not just the difference between 9% and 8%, but the difference between passive recovery and cost reduction to only weapon skills. It sounds like the cost reduction wouldn't apply to things like Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, Relentless Focus, Razor Caltrops, Resolving Vigor, Rearming Trap, etc.

You forget weapon abilities could also include ultimates.

Ultimate abilities consume ultimate and not stamina, therefore the Redguard passives didn't affect them either before or after these changes.

I think you are misreading the benefit. Instead of some Stam recovery percentage, you'll get a cost reduction on potentially all weapon abilities. Includes staffs, swords, etc. And might include ultimate costs, something that isn't a Nerf, at least in my eyes. Plus they still get some Stam recovery out of it anyway.

Iccengi

Honestly I think the changes are thoughtful and on point. I’m pleasantly surprised.
My only thought is giving 1k resources to replace a 9% buff isn’t really equivalent. If you move that from 1k to 2k and the 2k to 3k it’s be really in line

Lord_Eomer

starkerealm wrote: »

Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.

Not exactly,

See orc passive gives 250 weapon damage, stam favours weapon damage.

Extra sustain will be useless in trials.

MartiniDaniels

grannas211 wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

The only racial that matters for bosmer is being bis for cuteness

The passives look very good as well

What's good in there? redguards got exactly the same stamina and recovery, but on top of that 8% stamina cost decrease.
Bosmers will be bow-rolling rofling jokers now, nothing more.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I predicted this An all out assault on max % stats. Effectively stealing power from EVERYONE's build.

Thanks champion system supporting people. This is the price of the power creep I was talking about.

Lord_Eomer

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

The only racial that matters for bosmer is being bis for cuteness

The passives look very good as well

What's good in there? redguards got exactly the same stamina and recovery, but on top of that 8% stamina cost decrease.
Bosmers will be bow-rolling rofling jokers now, nothing more.

I think Red Guard change is very good, bosmer 3rd passive can use a buff.

DjMuscleboy02

i knew those announcements from the stream were missing the bad parts, frankly race changes should be free for a limited time. 1 race change simply is not going to be enough.

Koronach

Raltin wrote: »

The previous argonian passives were very well in line with the race's abilities in terms of lore, they weren't "all over the place"... affinity for quick swimming, the body's responsiveness to resource restores/healing, and disease AAAAAND poison resistance. The poison resistance being removed irks me very heavily... While wood elves are getting poison immunity. It's like skyrim all over again with the passives... There's nothing I've ever been able to find in lore that suggests wood elves should have poison resistances that are more effective than an argonian's... heck, argonian intentionally poison themselves as a cultural practice to exercise their immunities. The previous passives for argonians were perfect... you just had to tone them down a notch to bring the power level in line with the other races.

Yeah I agree, lore wise this makes no sense. Argonians are resistant to both Poison AND Diseases. Black Marsh is literally filled with poisons ffs.

Cundu_Ertur

Wood Elf

Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.

In Morrowind Bosmer had disease resistance. In Oblivion Bosmer had disease resistance. In Skyrim Bosmer had disease resistance and poison resistance. But whatever. This is nothing compared to the train wreck ahead.

Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Ok, so instead of a useful passive that lets Bosmer and Khajiit both fill their lore based role of being famously (or notoriously)thiefly stealthy types, the Wood Elves get de-stealthed by getting a passive that by your own admission is completely useless in PvE (see the bolded part above). In compensation, they get something that EVERY RACE CAN DO WITH A WEAPON SKILL PASSIVE.

Yay. (<--- this is sarcasm, FYI)


(edit to fix tag, and to fix an error about where every races gets the passive bonus)

FakeFox

Once again percentage scaling gets replaced with fixed stats, dumbing down builds even further. Most of these changes are straight up 30% nerfs for any reasonable build. So where are the "this is a buff if you run under 20k of your primary resource" developer comments?

marius_buys

Why do I get the feeling AD races have taken the brunt of the nerfs? You've basically turned AD into useless PvP classes which is why you see AD groups chasing single characters unable to kill them

weedgenius

Khajiit
Stealthy: Reduce detection radius by 3m and Increase damage from Stealth by 10% → Lunar Blessings: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.

Overall some very interesting and pleasant stuff but this one is bizarre. Just... what? I think removing the Khajiit stealth bonus is lame enough, but the replacement passive is just "If you play a Khajiit you get 750 extra in your stats." I dunno, just strikes me as off.

Also bummed about Dunmer losing the passive bonus to flame damage. That was a really fun racial bonus that seemed to fit well, although I understand your reasoning based on the problem that was outlined.

jlb1705

Minno wrote: »

I think you are misreading the benefit. Instead of some Stam recovery percentage, you'll get a cost reduction on potentially all weapon abilities. Includes staffs, swords, etc. And might include ultimate costs, something that isn't a Nerf, at least in my eyes. Plus they still get some Stam recovery out of it anyway.

Maybe I am misreading it, but I doubt it. I took "reduced cost" to mean "reduced STAMINA cost". That notwithstanding, there are three stamina weapon lines and not a single one of their ultimate abilities are considered meta at the moment - at least for PvE. Most endgame builds seem to call for Incapacitating Strike and Flawless Dawnbreaker.

Admittedly, I don't PvP so I can't speak for how all of this looks from that perspective.

cpuScientist

Cool changes, but Orc was nerfed a bit too much, atleast give them comparable health and stam to dark elf. 500 is so far below all the others. The loss of health recovery really hurts aswell. But the lowered stam feels bad

Lord_Eomer

Dunmer the true hybrids if you you can sustain.

Marteene

Changing the class bonuses is exciting, but there are still a few holes. Firstly Redguard has been in an excellent and frankly very unique racial position for a very long time, it seems counterproductive to assign an obvious buff to their regen. Secondly, the Khajiit changes feel extremely damaging, adding health passives to Khajiit is extremely counterintuitive to the lore of Khajiit who are known for agility and combat prowess, not their overwhelming defensive capabilities. This keeps the Khajiit race from ever excelling in one area of the endgame meta, whether it be Magicka DD, Stamina DD, tanking or healing; instead, forcing them onto the ultimate meta back burner. @Gilliamtherogue please consider these implications and consider a more tailored approach to the Khajiit that will be more lore appropriate as well as effective in the ESO meta.

Brutusmax1mus

Regarding the recovery portion based on set bonus rating. 2 seem out of line.

Adrenaline rush is a 1.5 conditional
High elf is at .74 conditional
Woodelf is 2 wow
Breton is .77 (that cost reduction is NIIICE)
Khajiit is .58 for mag and stam stat types and .77 health
Orcs .73 stam and heath conditional

Halke

FakeFox wrote: »

Once again percentage scaling gets replaced with fixed stats, dumbing down builds even further. Most of these changes are straight up 30% nerfs for any reasonable build. So where are the "this is a buff if you run under 20k of your primary resource" developer comments?

Can you even run under 20k of your primary resource? Naked I am still over 20k with a split HP/Mag attribute loadout >.>

jaws343

Everyone saying RIP Dunmer and all I see is Dunmer looking pretty good as potential stamblade in PVP. The extra stam and mag paired with the weapon damage has potential. Get a few more cloaks off.

nud3_voxel

It doesn't matter what the changes are in terms of pve balance. End game players will just figure out the race that outputs the most DPS and then everyone will use it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It doesn't matter if it's just 500 DPS less. People will still go for the higher damage.

Let's be real, most of the players just want to know if they'll have to empty the bank to be able to play the characters they created ages ago based on the passives... Just give us a race change token per character so people don't quit the game.

Krymzonbladez

Why make the Dunmer racial dmg bonus passive tied to weapons....like...seriously...Why? Most of the changes seem ok I guess but this one makes little to no sense, since hybrid builds aren't exactly the greatest a lot of the time. Not to mention my loss of like 1300 magicka or some such...for 500 stam....

mirog

imperial seems very underwhelming compared to everything else FeelsBadMan

MartiniDaniels

MincVinyl wrote: »

Bosmer's getting stealth detect seems like a completely useless passive, there is almost no instance where I think I run into stealthed players these days other than nightblades (which stealth detect doesn't matter). I would rather see more damage to stealthed enemies, or something that would actually be useful in combat. I know lore is important, but don't have it determine ingame buffs/usefulness of the race. Also why does the speed only last 3 seconds and not 4 like the bow hasty retreat passive, it would make more sense to have these overlap.

otherwise great to see that the game isn't just
stam build ---> orc
mag/tank/stam ---> argonian

side note i'm a pvp player, but i'm pretty sure stealth detect has no place in pve aswell.

As in current passives in pve it at least give ability to steal everything, now that's completely useless passive. Khajiits and dunmer are put to "hybrid" roles which are out of meta.. well, maybe in PVP some viable hybrid can be builded, but in PVE cats and dark elves are now far behind altmer and redguard which were directly buffed.